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Nordic Forum It smells a bit of snow and ice and big hairy vikings chasing lusty maidens around after lots of mjød and loud partying. Forum languages are Svenska, Dansk, Norsk & English.


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Old 4th Aug 2012, 10:14   #41 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Maybe thats what their experience is worth?
Theyll get more later..

Last edited by de facto; 4th Aug 2012 at 10:15.
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Old 18th Aug 2012, 16:17   #42 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 28
Narrow minded for thinking that all of you who buy jobs and are accepting crap contracts on top of paying for your ratings are c*nts?
Ok, let's call me narrow minded. I don't mind as long as I don't have to fly shitloads of sectors for no pay, constantly worrying about who I have to blow next to keep my contract without benefits or social security with the added bonus of European revenue offices getting really interested in what's going on.
All this just to be able to fly around under callsign"Whoreshuttle".
I'll be narrow minded any day!
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Old 19th Aug 2012, 20:49   #43 (permalink)
 
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This just saved may day, hilarius ENSA
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Old 21st Aug 2012, 09:15   #44 (permalink)
 
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Noen som plutselig får litt trangere økonomi?

Skatteetaten etterforsker piloter for skattesnusk - Aftenposten
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Old 21st Aug 2012, 12:28   #45 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sverige
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how does it work with this per diem that you get. Is that independent on how much you fly, or can it get smaller if you don't fly that much one month?

Any new info on who pays taxes where? After 1 of july with the new rules about paying taxes on the base you have. Do you pay one tax in Spain and then the rest in your homecountry?
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Old 21st Aug 2012, 19:16   #46 (permalink)
 
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Per Diem is a fixed amount for Contractors, fly/no-fly. . . . very different scenario for permanent guys.

The new legislation concerns social charges, not taxes. AFAIK it applies from 1st June , but the door has been left wide open & anybody employed before this date can continue on the "old" system (social charges paid in Ireland for Ryanair) for 10 years before implementation is required.

New employees (or anyone changing "home base") are supposed to adhere to new legislation.

We have no definitive news on this thus far.
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Old 22nd Aug 2012, 19:02   #47 (permalink)
 
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ref. AUTO/MAN

ref. AUTO/MAN

I agree
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Old 22nd Aug 2012, 23:02   #48 (permalink)
 
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AUTO/MAN. . . . I agree too, if, and only IF , you can offer a person starting now in this industry a viable alternative to kick.start his career.

As a "Contract Capt" in NAS you probably view me as somewhat lower than a Dog Dropping. . .but, I never paid for a Rating in my life. . . .however, I am not such a dumb old guy to say, were I 20 years old now, that I wouldn't.

Times change, for e v e r y t h i n g in life, as the dinosaurs (didn't) realise, adapt or face extinction.

I don't like it, but if you don't face it . . . . . . . . .


If you can find a job with Wideroe (or whatever) & avoid paying out, Congrats really , I say that with no malice, but in the current market , people can't sit home forever waiting for that chance in a thousand.

Last edited by captplaystation; 22nd Aug 2012 at 23:05.
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Old 23rd Aug 2012, 14:34   #49 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 28
The dinosaurs where extinct due to external factors, not because some lizards decided to buy dinosaur-uniforms and start chewing away on other dinosaurs so why don't we leave the dinosaurs out of the discussion

Why should anyone starting their career be offered a kickstart? Work hard, earn your position with your abilities, not your wallet.
My terms and conditions just went down because they where compared to NAS.
Now why do you think NAS is cheap? Could it have anything to do with a bunch of c***s buying their positions and accepting dodgy foreign contracts helping NAS avoid their legal duties and taxes?

The common excuses are "I need to provide for... and "If I don't some one else will...".
I need to provide for my family as well, so you might be able to appreciate the lack of respect for your actions as they have a direct effect on me and every other pilot being compared with new norm for the industry you help to create.

I have nothing against you personally captainplaystation. How could I, I don't know you except for your posts here on PPRuNe?
That said I will do everything I can to fight what you are bringing in to the profession.
Especially the mindset that it should be accepted and that it should be ok for young dumbf**ks who just bought their license to think that they have the right to a job just because they can afford a typerating and that everybody ahead of them in the game should move over and accept what's offered because times change.
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Old 23rd Aug 2012, 15:31   #50 (permalink)
 
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Thumbs up

Well spoken, AUTO/MAN
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Old 23rd Aug 2012, 15:50   #51 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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..and for all of you youngsters on brand new, bought contracts.
The only reason for you having a contract job today is that there still are relics like me and my colleagues fighting for contracts signed a long time ago. Contracts that the beancounters think are way to expensive in todays world and try to circumnavigate even though both senioritylists and payscales where invented by employers to make sure that skilled and expensively trained labour would stay inhouse.

The funny thing is that if the pilotcommunity worldwide would agree on becoming contractors overnight tonight, every beancounter,shareholder and contractor would be in the shit. Shoulderdeep for the longterm.

Why?

Because only experience would matter.
The only way to keep costs down (insurance etc.) would be to attract experienced pilots. The only way to attract experienced, current pilots is pay and benefits.
What would you bitch about then, when times change and you would have to adapt to the new order? Still no good jobs and experienced pilots picking 6-60 month contracts where and when the market forces dictate.
Be very careful what you wish for, newbies and management alike.
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Old 27th Aug 2012, 12:32   #52 (permalink)
 
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Wise words again AUTO/MAN....

To bad there are to many "Daddy paying for TR" pilots out there.....
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Old 30th Aug 2012, 19:16   #53 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 718
Quote:
My terms and conditions just went down because they where compared to NAS.
Quote:
move over and accept what's offered because times change.
So I guess you shouldn't have moved over and accepted the offer then. Something about stones and glass-houses.


(But in general, what WOW 84 said: let's keep focused on who's arguing with who, here. Pilots are fighting pilots while management is laughing all the way to the bank. What good does that do?)
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Old 31st Aug 2012, 08:23   #54 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfisk
Pilots are fighting pilots while management is laughing all the way to the bank. What good does that do?
True story.
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Old 31st Aug 2012, 15:59   #55 (permalink)
 
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If you want to see how well "Divide & Conquer" works, just visit the blue & yellow cockpit parked next to you. . . . . the answer is well, "too well".
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Old 31st Aug 2012, 17:39   #56 (permalink)
 
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Re: swedish DY MPL-cadets

My guess;

SEK 20 405:-/month ( or EUR 2450) i a w the swedish labour union's generic contracted minimum wage for transportation industry workers.

This is after social charges ( taken by the hiring agency), but before income tax ( typically 31%).
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Old 31st Aug 2012, 23:00   #57 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 28
nice synopsis there bfisk, how about quoting the whole post instead of picking words out of sentences?
the point was, and still is:
No respect. At all. For cun*s buying jobs.
When NAS started, most of the people employed bought a typerating. Nice. Especially for pilots in commuterairlines with good experience unwilling to buy their careerprogression.
NAS and B.K decided to move the goalposts for commands or newhires. Why not, all of you took the previous bait by paying for what employers normally do.
Now boys and girls in NAS are squeeling unfair like little pigs. "Unfair!?"
All you got is litterally what you paid for, in most cases with your own money.

Pilots where actually ready to fight for pilots. Most of the pilotunions in Scandinavia where gearing up their support when it was deemed unnessecary by the affected ones, since two years of prostitution appears to be ok before they change the rules again.

Don't confuse pilots fighting prostitutes with pilots fighting pilots.
We are not our own worst enemies, you are.
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Old 1st Sep 2012, 08:44   #58 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: @ some hotel far away from everything
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10 years in business as a lo-co today. Congrats! What started out as a make or break back when SK bought BU has gradually moved to the front of the race to the bottom competition. Where it all files was right after making things work. This is when certain demands could have, and should have, been raised and met. Pay for your TR should have and could have been abolished back then, but it was all halleluja for excited employees who only focused on themselves and not seeing the big picture. Years gone by, and now the 1500 hour minimum experience lever for FOs has turned into MPLs right out of flightschool and crappy, dubious contracts while are under suspiscion by the authorities because not all pilots are seeing BK. as the great saviour. There was a great opportunity to set the record straight this spring, with a lot of unionized pilots throughout Europe willing to back them up, but BK played hardball for real (suspect there were serious threats against the unionized DY pilots), so they folded and agreed to even more dubious terms. Good one So what's next? How can BK make things even worse for pilots? He's done so much already! Here's a proposal; pay for commands!!! I hate to say it, but this is a case of what goes around, comes around
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Old 2nd Sep 2012, 07:24   #59 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NORWAY
Age: 51
Posts: 28
Yes - there were so many pilots (unions) around willing to make a back up, if things went in the wrong direction in the negotiation between BK and the DY-Union.
It' a sad story, that the Union was so weak in the end...
I'm sure that all this will put a further pressure on all other in the industry, in Scandinavia, and also around...

Norwegian's management seems to go for the "Ryanair solution"... The only thing which could make an important change, is a course change inside the DY-pilot group and the union there. But at the moment we should not expect to much ...they are all splitted in to many groups, with different salaries, different social security, some with a union behind, some without....It's a sad story....
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Old 9th Sep 2012, 10:52   #60 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shitosphere
Age: 48
Posts: 64
Another one bites the dust. For every resignation they get stronger.
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