Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
upgently,
welcome back. Nice pic which could just as easily have been taken at Salalah. Interesting tale about the Clark AFB Herc. Something always waits to bite the unwary. Trust you are well.
welcome back. Nice pic which could just as easily have been taken at Salalah. Interesting tale about the Clark AFB Herc. Something always waits to bite the unwary. Trust you are well.
This pic is to illustrate and complement Dougie's description of the retrieval of the load bag on the trials. The manual rewind system is still being used here before the switch to power. And yes it did get VERY close to the ducksbill and cargo door on occasions. I did have some pics of the power system but they have gone walkies. Doug, can you confirm (or otherwise ?) that the power was via the Aux hyd system ? Or is my fickle memory confusing it with something else !
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AA62 Snatch
Sir your memory does not fade.
The Fulton recovery winch was indeed powered through the Aux Hyd system.
The only snag was that the MOD procurers only purchased one spool for the winch which had two drives. The second, shorter cable was to reel in the Person/bag when he/it had been brought to a stable position abaft the ramp. Hence the unseemly scrabbling to pin down the load in 82. Happy Days. DM
The Fulton recovery winch was indeed powered through the Aux Hyd system.
The only snag was that the MOD procurers only purchased one spool for the winch which had two drives. The second, shorter cable was to reel in the Person/bag when he/it had been brought to a stable position abaft the ramp. Hence the unseemly scrabbling to pin down the load in 82. Happy Days. DM
DM,
many thanks for the confirmation. Happy and very interesting times we had too. It has been suggested we could compile a book from our inputs but some of the tales would stretch the credulity of the 'lay' reader.
many thanks for the confirmation. Happy and very interesting times we had too. It has been suggested we could compile a book from our inputs but some of the tales would stretch the credulity of the 'lay' reader.
Final pic of my snatch series. You can get a bit of a sensation of speed from this pic.
AA62,
Nice pic, it does give an impression of speed. But it looks like there's a good old "nose high" attitude there, suggesting "slow" ? Perhaps low, and slow might describe it better ? Welcome back upgently, hope you are well.
Smudge
Nice pic, it does give an impression of speed. But it looks like there's a good old "nose high" attitude there, suggesting "slow" ? Perhaps low, and slow might describe it better ? Welcome back upgently, hope you are well.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 1st Aug 2014 at 20:33.
ADS Arms
I agree that pre-flight checks required ADS arms to be connected but there was at least one take off that started with the ramp on the floor and that involved some nifty work on the ramp controls to get the ramp above the horizontal before rotation. It could well have been a prime candidate for " I learnt about flying from that" page in some aviation mags. It was a prime example of a break down in communications and the way that people interpret things to be what they expect rather than how they actually are! If there is any interest I can detail the saga for as Max Boyce used to say " I know because I was there!"
gopher01,
I at least would like to hear your ADS tale. I too have taken off with the ramp in a less than optimal position. I was the ALM on the Abingdon B of B Display Herc in XV 300 on the 15 Sept 1972. We were doing tac offloads on the grass in front of the VIPs.
We had two armoured cars and a troop of soldiers. The rehearsals went perfectly but on the day the forward vehicle stalled. Luckily I had anticipated this scenario and had briefed the driver of the No 1 vehicle not to drive away until I gave the signal. When the forward one did not move I motioned him back up the ramp connected a chain as a tow rope and off they went. Of course this took longer than normal. The Nav was commentating to the Captain from the bottom of the flight deck steps and as soon as he said the vehicles were off so was the a/c. I just had enough time to get the loading ramps up and started to close up as we rotated. I was not best pleased !
I at least would like to hear your ADS tale. I too have taken off with the ramp in a less than optimal position. I was the ALM on the Abingdon B of B Display Herc in XV 300 on the 15 Sept 1972. We were doing tac offloads on the grass in front of the VIPs.
We had two armoured cars and a troop of soldiers. The rehearsals went perfectly but on the day the forward vehicle stalled. Luckily I had anticipated this scenario and had briefed the driver of the No 1 vehicle not to drive away until I gave the signal. When the forward one did not move I motioned him back up the ramp connected a chain as a tow rope and off they went. Of course this took longer than normal. The Nav was commentating to the Captain from the bottom of the flight deck steps and as soon as he said the vehicles were off so was the a/c. I just had enough time to get the loading ramps up and started to close up as we rotated. I was not best pleased !
Last edited by ancientaviator62; 2nd Aug 2014 at 11:38. Reason: spelling
Douggie M has talked briefly about operating with the Senior Service. This pic shows one of the types of waterproof container that we used to use. There were others. My first drop to a ship was in XV 190 in September 1973 to HMS Kent. As none of us were at all competent in ship recognition we had pics from 'Janes All The Worlds Ships' . It would be bad for the image if we presented the package to the inevitable shadowing Russian 'trawler'.
A task force like that in Op Corporate had an air defence cordon around it. Entry and exit was by 'gates ' whose position etc changed regularly around the clock. So did the appropriate codes. Sometimes in the words of that Barclaycard commercial 'we were all fluent, sadly in different languages' !
Our time and that of the RN could get out of sync and so could the comms.
When that happened the Herc crews would get fed up and threaten to take the kit home. This generally worked but the 'sparkling' on te CCWR as the fleet AD radars tracked you could be disconcerting. I am sure DM and others could tell some interesting tales.
Last edited by ancientaviator62; 2nd Aug 2014 at 11:56. Reason: update
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AA62 ... Many thanks for your help with this superb thread old chap ... much appreciated
I'm still a bit involved off radar as PM'd ... but will pop by when I can.
I'm still a bit involved off radar as PM'd ... but will pop by when I can.
Coffman,
my pleasure to help keep your super thread going. Best wishes.
my pleasure to help keep your super thread going. Best wishes.
As you can see in this pic (not taken by me so may be from the JATE archive) you can see that the ADS arms are connected .
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Isn't there a clue in the nomenclature?
I always thought that ADS meant Air Despatch System, inferring they were fitted to ALLOW airborne stores release (along with the Bombracks).
I always thought that ADS meant Air Despatch System, inferring they were fitted to ALLOW airborne stores release (along with the Bombracks).
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AA62 "Waterproof" 1 Ton
Back to 82 Folks
The fleet on its way south discovered a lot of things were left behind or were being used up too quickly so the Drops to Ships page in MOTS ll was rewritten. Once the usual inter service comms cock up was resolved; e.g. "British Warship on my starboard side...." followed by the BAM code fiasco; "Yeoman, make signal to Hercules..." The snag was that the container when dropped floated flush with the surface and was invisible from the ship. The Wasp was launched and being lighter than the load could only hover over it till the whaler was launched to tow the load to the ship. On winching it aboard the soggy bottom often fell out consigning the V&A contents to Davy Jones.
Enter the JATE team. The 1 ton Waterproof load was only coated tri wall cardboard which kept the sogginess at bay for a few hours. A SARBE beacon was applied to the top for the Wasp to locate the load in high seas using its centre reader, and a Flacon beacon was attached for visual ident.
The SARBE and Flacon were activated prior to the drop so it was "blinding Rodney" on the ramp.
Epilogue. The Navy still took several hours to retrieve the load from the sea and several more contents were lost to Davy Jones.
Hope that explains.
The fleet on its way south discovered a lot of things were left behind or were being used up too quickly so the Drops to Ships page in MOTS ll was rewritten. Once the usual inter service comms cock up was resolved; e.g. "British Warship on my starboard side...." followed by the BAM code fiasco; "Yeoman, make signal to Hercules..." The snag was that the container when dropped floated flush with the surface and was invisible from the ship. The Wasp was launched and being lighter than the load could only hover over it till the whaler was launched to tow the load to the ship. On winching it aboard the soggy bottom often fell out consigning the V&A contents to Davy Jones.
Enter the JATE team. The 1 ton Waterproof load was only coated tri wall cardboard which kept the sogginess at bay for a few hours. A SARBE beacon was applied to the top for the Wasp to locate the load in high seas using its centre reader, and a Flacon beacon was attached for visual ident.
The SARBE and Flacon were activated prior to the drop so it was "blinding Rodney" on the ramp.
Epilogue. The Navy still took several hours to retrieve the load from the sea and several more contents were lost to Davy Jones.
Hope that explains.
DM,
when we did our drop to HMS Kent, the 'proper' waterproof container was not available. Our smallish store was wrapped in what looked like a bin liner secured with black tape. After we dropped it they scrambled the heli to pick it up. The downwash from the heli looked likely to result in the store emulating a submarine. So they reverted to the old fashioned method. They launched a boat.
when we did our drop to HMS Kent, the 'proper' waterproof container was not available. Our smallish store was wrapped in what looked like a bin liner secured with black tape. After we dropped it they scrambled the heli to pick it up. The downwash from the heli looked likely to result in the store emulating a submarine. So they reverted to the old fashioned method. They launched a boat.
Dengue Dude,
sorry but I have not quite followed the point you are making ref the 'Air Drop System' arms.
sorry but I have not quite followed the point you are making ref the 'Air Drop System' arms.
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It was just your observation that the ADS arms were connected and a comment earlier in the thread about not going beyond the ramp horizontal in flight - absolutely.
I was just 'agreeing' that the ADS arms ensured a horizontal ramp i.e. an extension of the flat floor to allow airdrop.
It might just be my age . . . .
I was just 'agreeing' that the ADS arms ensured a horizontal ramp i.e. an extension of the flat floor to allow airdrop.
It might just be my age . . . .
DD,
almost certainly MY age ! I am not as sharp on the uptake as I once (thought) I was ! I fully understand now. Yes provided the checks are carried out correctly the ramp should never go below the horizontal in flight. Unless someone knows differently.
almost certainly MY age ! I am not as sharp on the uptake as I once (thought) I was ! I fully understand now. Yes provided the checks are carried out correctly the ramp should never go below the horizontal in flight. Unless someone knows differently.
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Sorry chaps to go back to the 'snatch' topic ... but I'm a bit behind the curve following my absence 
Am I right in assuming that the 'snatch' technique described, as used by the RAF, is different to the USAF Fulton STAR System ... where their Herc's have a scissors nose to capture the recovery cable attached to a balloon ? Was it more like the earlier arrangement outlined below ?
Sorry ... Just trying to get my head around how our system worked ... Sounds a bit sporty to say the least
Best ...
Coff.
Am I right in assuming that the 'snatch' technique described, as used by the RAF, is different to the USAF Fulton STAR System ... where their Herc's have a scissors nose to capture the recovery cable attached to a balloon ? Was it more like the earlier arrangement outlined below ?
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The Fulton surface-to-air recovery system (STARS) is a system used by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), United States Air Force and United States Navy for retrieving persons on the ground using aircraft such as the MC-130E Combat Talon I. It involves using an overall-type harness and a self-inflating balloon which carries an attached lift line. An MC-130E engages the line with its V-shaped yoke and the individual is reeled on board. Red flags on the lift line guide the pilot during daylight recoveries; lights on the lift line are used for night recoveries. Recovery kits were designed for one and two-man retrievals.
This system was developed by inventor Robert Edison Fulton, Jr., for the Central Intelligence Agency in the early 1950s. It was an evolution from a similar system[1] that was used during World War II by American and British forces. The earlier system did not use a balloon, but had a pair of poles that were set in the ground on either side of the person to be retrieved, with a line running from the top of one pole to the other. An aircraft, usually a C-47 Skytrain, would trail a grappling hook and engage the line, which was attached to the person to be retrieved.
This system was developed by inventor Robert Edison Fulton, Jr., for the Central Intelligence Agency in the early 1950s. It was an evolution from a similar system[1] that was used during World War II by American and British forces. The earlier system did not use a balloon, but had a pair of poles that were set in the ground on either side of the person to be retrieved, with a line running from the top of one pole to the other. An aircraft, usually a C-47 Skytrain, would trail a grappling hook and engage the line, which was attached to the person to be retrieved.
Sorry ... Just trying to get my head around how our system worked ... Sounds a bit sporty to say the least
Best ...
Coff.