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A tough interview
Say what you like about this man, this is a tough interview to do with the son of one of Argentine crew of the C130 Nigel shot down. It is all translated. They didn't tell him previous to the interview that they would be including the son of the pilot - so Nigel did it off the cuff.
Last edited by thowman; 5th Jul 2013 at 16:35.
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F-35B Automatic Landings? (One mentioned years ago)
For 'PhilipG' to ease concern about flying the F-35B with a hint perhaps about 'automatic VLs' - after suitable testing we may see 'automatic SRVLs'? Dunno. Just spitballin'. Remember with JPALS F-35Cs will be landing completely automatically also....
Jim’s vertical landing is a Lightning II eye-opener desider 02 July 2013
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...2_july2013.pdf (6.5Mb)
_______________
Repeated also on the 'other long running thread'...
UK Will Try To Boost F-35B Landing Weight by Chris Pocock AIN Defense Perspective 05 July 2013
UK Will Try To Boost F-35B Landing Weight | Aviation International News
Jim’s vertical landing is a Lightning II eye-opener desider 02 July 2013
"SQUADRON LEADER Jim Schofield has again praised the capabilities of the Lockheed Martin F-35B after completing a vertical landing of the short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) version of the Lightning II.
After the flight from Naval Air Station Patuxent River in the US, Sqn Ldr Schofield said: “The F-35 has truly revolutionised STOVL flying. With legacy types, such as Harrier, the pilot was always working hard to land the aircraft onto a hover pad or ship.
“Now with F-35B, at the press of a button the aircraft transforms into ‘short take-off or vertical landing’ mode whereupon the aircraft can take off or hover hands-off. This means pilots will require less training and operating the aircraft will be much safer than legacy types. It’s a fantastic aircraft to fly...."
After the flight from Naval Air Station Patuxent River in the US, Sqn Ldr Schofield said: “The F-35 has truly revolutionised STOVL flying. With legacy types, such as Harrier, the pilot was always working hard to land the aircraft onto a hover pad or ship.
“Now with F-35B, at the press of a button the aircraft transforms into ‘short take-off or vertical landing’ mode whereupon the aircraft can take off or hover hands-off. This means pilots will require less training and operating the aircraft will be much safer than legacy types. It’s a fantastic aircraft to fly...."
_______________
Repeated also on the 'other long running thread'...
UK Will Try To Boost F-35B Landing Weight by Chris Pocock AIN Defense Perspective 05 July 2013
"Senior British military officials confirmed that the UK will conduct shipboard rolling vertical landing (SRVL) trials on the F-35B version of the Lockheed Martin Lightning II stealth combat jet. The SRVL technique would allow the aircraft to land at higher weights than is currently possible in the VTOL mode....
...The officials said they are satisfied that the F-35B could bring back the internal weapons load that is initially planned, comprising–in the UK case–two AMRAAM air-air missiles and two Paveway IV smart bombs weighing some 5,000 pounds. But, one added, when high temperature and/or low pressure conditions prevail–such as in the Gulf of Oman–it would be prudent to achieve another 2,000 to 4,000 pounds of bring-back weight, for either fuel or weapons, especially since the F-35 will be able to carry additional weapons on wing pylons, when stealth is not a requirement....
...the UK’s three T&E jets will embark on the new Queen Elizabeth II aircraft carrier for trials in the same year[2018]."
...The officials said they are satisfied that the F-35B could bring back the internal weapons load that is initially planned, comprising–in the UK case–two AMRAAM air-air missiles and two Paveway IV smart bombs weighing some 5,000 pounds. But, one added, when high temperature and/or low pressure conditions prevail–such as in the Gulf of Oman–it would be prudent to achieve another 2,000 to 4,000 pounds of bring-back weight, for either fuel or weapons, especially since the F-35 will be able to carry additional weapons on wing pylons, when stealth is not a requirement....
...the UK’s three T&E jets will embark on the new Queen Elizabeth II aircraft carrier for trials in the same year[2018]."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 5th Jul 2013 at 20:45. Reason: frmt
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2011 First F-35B Auto VL
At the time this event was disputed but whatever... (see immediately above for reference why this old news appears now)....
Just Push ‘Auto-Land’ April 2011 — John A. Tirpak
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRA...Auto-Land.aspx
Just Push ‘Auto-Land’ April 2011 — John A. Tirpak
“A Lockheed Martin F-35B short takeoff & vertical landing test aircraft last week achieved an impressive milestone, according to Warren Boley, Pratt & Whitney military engines president. “For the first time,” Boley said in an interview, “a pilot pushed a button & the [air]plane landed autonomously.”
Boley joked that the pilot could fold his hands behind his head or ‘read the paper’ while the air-plane safely settled down to a vertical landing from hover. The flight was the 74th vertical landing of the F-35 test program, & the fact that the Marine Corps was willing to allow the test indicated high confidence in the airplane & its Pratt-supplied F135 engine, Boley told the Daily Report April 8.”
Boley joked that the pilot could fold his hands behind his head or ‘read the paper’ while the air-plane safely settled down to a vertical landing from hover. The flight was the 74th vertical landing of the F-35 test program, & the fact that the Marine Corps was willing to allow the test indicated high confidence in the airplane & its Pratt-supplied F135 engine, Boley told the Daily Report April 8.”
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Thowman,
Thank you for sharing such a very interesting and tough interview with us which was of great credit to all of those who arranged and took part in it, particularly of course the son of the Argentine crewmember and Nigel. Well done to the both of them and the many others on both sides who have shown such a willingness to communicate with each other with such respect.
Thank you for sharing such a very interesting and tough interview with us which was of great credit to all of those who arranged and took part in it, particularly of course the son of the Argentine crewmember and Nigel. Well done to the both of them and the many others on both sides who have shown such a willingness to communicate with each other with such respect.
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Glad you enjoyed it.
The shooting down of the C130 is quite controversial in Argentina, as the plane was unarmed, and they claim that the footage from Nigel's gun camera shows that the cannon attack was head on, not from behind. I have not seen this myself, but I don't see why he would lie.
That said, the average argentine still think that invincible was bombed on the 30th May, and that the true UK losses were much higher than claimed, though I don't see how any UK government could keep such a big secret as that. It's got more leaks than a sieve.
A
The shooting down of the C130 is quite controversial in Argentina, as the plane was unarmed, and they claim that the footage from Nigel's gun camera shows that the cannon attack was head on, not from behind. I have not seen this myself, but I don't see why he would lie.
That said, the average argentine still think that invincible was bombed on the 30th May, and that the true UK losses were much higher than claimed, though I don't see how any UK government could keep such a big secret as that. It's got more leaks than a sieve.
A
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Talking specifically about the engagement, what difference would it make to public perception if it were a head on attack?
I didn't know the footage existed - and for a while I was custodian of the 801 NAS 'scrap book' which they kept down south with hand written de-briefs and diagrams of the engagements.
I didn't know the footage existed - and for a while I was custodian of the 801 NAS 'scrap book' which they kept down south with hand written de-briefs and diagrams of the engagements.
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The shooting down of the C130 is quite controversial in Argentina, as the plane was unarmed, and they claim that the footage from Nigel's gun camera shows that the cannon attack was head on, not from behind. I have not seen this myself, but I don't see why he would lie.
Sorry chaps,
And maybe my level of comprehension is not as "internationally massive" (or intellectually come to that) as others. A military C130 is shot down, in a combat zone, by a defending fighter. Head on, athwart ships, under the radar ? Really, surely a kill is a kill ? Or was the Falklands conflict fought under the Knights code of chivalry ? Perhaps all the books I have read on the subject missed the point as well.
Smudge
And maybe my level of comprehension is not as "internationally massive" (or intellectually come to that) as others. A military C130 is shot down, in a combat zone, by a defending fighter. Head on, athwart ships, under the radar ? Really, surely a kill is a kill ? Or was the Falklands conflict fought under the Knights code of chivalry ? Perhaps all the books I have read on the subject missed the point as well.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 7th Jul 2013 at 19:52.
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"There are three versions of events. Lt Cdr Ward's original Combat Report, the 801 NAS History, and what Lt Cdr Ward says in his book."
ExAscoteer
This was also said in a previous thread re another of Sharkey's kills.
Why such a difference ?
Also, wouldn't 801 NAS History be taken from a combat report ?
ExAscoteer
This was also said in a previous thread re another of Sharkey's kills.
Why such a difference ?
Also, wouldn't 801 NAS History be taken from a combat report ?
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I think the clue in my last post is in the words "in Argentina".
Basically everything in Argentina with regards to the war is controversial. We still haven't admitted that two of their A4s flew over Invincible, bombing and strafing it as they went after it was hit by an Exocet.
As far as the footage goes, no idea how or where, just that "someone" saw it and Sharkey shot down an unarmed plane.
Basically everything in Argentina with regards to the war is controversial. We still haven't admitted that two of their A4s flew over Invincible, bombing and strafing it as they went after it was hit by an Exocet.
As far as the footage goes, no idea how or where, just that "someone" saw it and Sharkey shot down an unarmed plane.
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The Lear jets were unarmed as well ?
And unarmed or not (C-130), previous C-130's had bombed
the task force so reasonable to assume this one was as well.
And unarmed or not (C-130), previous C-130's had bombed
the task force so reasonable to assume this one was as well.
Suspicion breeds confidence
It might be a good idea to remind ourselves that both the Lear Jet and the C-130 were military aircraft in a combat zone and clearly not under the service of the Queen. In both instances they were undertaking reconnaissance which would have been beneficial to the enemy. Cdr Ward was right to shoot it down and I can assure you great efforts were made to get others. The same applies to the Lear Jets. They knew the risks but did not expect to find a T42 in the anchorage.
Lear Jet, C-130 or Canberra - any such aircraft operating in the area would have been dealt with according to the prevailing Rules of Engagement - Cdr Ward would quite rightly have followed such RoE without question.
That the Argentinians sent such crews to their doom is a question for them to consider - the SHAR pilots acted quite correctly. It cannot have been much fun to shoot down a C-130 but, as has been said before, the aircraft were known to have been operated in a bombing role and it was entirely possible that this aircraft was being operated in a similar manner.
Edit: While I might criticise Cdr Ward for some of his more recent website comments, I have nothing but praise for his bravery and professionalism during the 1982 South Atlantic War. Single engine, single seat and $od all fuel in the vile weather down there - that took some doing!
That the Argentinians sent such crews to their doom is a question for them to consider - the SHAR pilots acted quite correctly. It cannot have been much fun to shoot down a C-130 but, as has been said before, the aircraft were known to have been operated in a bombing role and it was entirely possible that this aircraft was being operated in a similar manner.
Edit: While I might criticise Cdr Ward for some of his more recent website comments, I have nothing but praise for his bravery and professionalism during the 1982 South Atlantic War. Single engine, single seat and $od all fuel in the vile weather down there - that took some doing!
Last edited by BEagle; 8th Jul 2013 at 17:42.
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FWIW from One of their aircraft is missing
"1st June 1982.
0950 hours.
Sharkey WardNo.801 Squadron CAP (Lt. N. Ward and Lt. S. Thomas) destroy Argentine C-130 Hercules 93 km north of Pebble Island. Wards first AIM-l9 Sidewinder he fired fell short of the C-130, but the second started a fire between the port engines, Ward then fired 240 rounds of 30mm, which broke the aircraft's wing of sending it crashing into the sea killing the 7 crew members. This particular C-130 is believed to have been trying to repeat a bombing attempt made by another C-130 the previous day, when an Argentine C-130 made a bombing attack on a British tanker well north of the total exclusion zone. One bomb struck the ship, but bounced off to no effect.
Official Argentine Sources state:
June 1st:
The C-130(TC-63) was looking for sea targets using the on board weather radar. During the attack you mention to the tanker, bombs were dropped from TERs installed under the wings of the C-130! Not dropped from the back door."
Assuming thats correct, it more than justifies the attack on the C-130
The report isn't correct in that the tanker was the Liberian flagged Hercules supertanker. The bomb failed to go off, but remained aboard the ship. The insurers decided to scupper her rather than risk removing the bomb
"1st June 1982.
0950 hours.
Sharkey WardNo.801 Squadron CAP (Lt. N. Ward and Lt. S. Thomas) destroy Argentine C-130 Hercules 93 km north of Pebble Island. Wards first AIM-l9 Sidewinder he fired fell short of the C-130, but the second started a fire between the port engines, Ward then fired 240 rounds of 30mm, which broke the aircraft's wing of sending it crashing into the sea killing the 7 crew members. This particular C-130 is believed to have been trying to repeat a bombing attempt made by another C-130 the previous day, when an Argentine C-130 made a bombing attack on a British tanker well north of the total exclusion zone. One bomb struck the ship, but bounced off to no effect.
Official Argentine Sources state:
June 1st:
The C-130(TC-63) was looking for sea targets using the on board weather radar. During the attack you mention to the tanker, bombs were dropped from TERs installed under the wings of the C-130! Not dropped from the back door."
Assuming thats correct, it more than justifies the attack on the C-130
The report isn't correct in that the tanker was the Liberian flagged Hercules supertanker. The bomb failed to go off, but remained aboard the ship. The insurers decided to scupper her rather than risk removing the bomb
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Edit: While I might criticise Cdr Ward for some of his more recent website comments, I have nothing but praise for his bravery and professionalism during the 1982 South Atlantic War. Single engine, single seat and $od all fuel in the vile weather down there - that took some doing!
According to some Argentine sources, the C-130 was badly damaged due to the Sidewinder missile and it was trying to ditch at the time it was engaged with cannon fire.
That`s why Ward is not in the friends list of some people here.
That`s why Ward is not in the friends list of some people here.
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I admit I am not nearly as widely read as most others on here but
1. On his return from a sortie, wasn't Sharkey sent to investigate a contact some distance from the ships but close enough to warrant investigation ?
2. Wasn't the C-130 at a very low level already so if hit and stayed
at low level, how would a pilot going at speed know if they were
going to ditch ?
3. And as Navaleye said, Military aircraft in a war zone ?
1. On his return from a sortie, wasn't Sharkey sent to investigate a contact some distance from the ships but close enough to warrant investigation ?
2. Wasn't the C-130 at a very low level already so if hit and stayed
at low level, how would a pilot going at speed know if they were
going to ditch ?
3. And as Navaleye said, Military aircraft in a war zone ?
Suspicion breeds confidence
The Herc was on a surface search and popped up long enough for Minerva to get three sweeps on her with her 965. The fighter controller vectored Ward and his wingman in. They detected the C-130 on Radar at low level and running at full speed for home. (Anyone know the top speed of a Herc at Sea Level) Ward and Thomas were above the cloud. Ward descended and fire one Sidewinder at a range of about a mile at the Starboard engines. This just fell short, he then closed and fired a second at the port engines this hit between them starting a fire. He then emptied his Adens into rear door and tail causing it to crash.