How big do you think the exodus from EK will be....
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Long Ago
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
“WE LOST SOMETHING LIKE $600 MILLION IN 1994. IN 1995, WE MADE $225 MILLION—WITH THE SAME PEOPLE AND THE SAME AIRPLANES. SO, IT WASN’T ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE EMPLOYEES. IT WAS THE MANAGEMENT—AND IT ALWAYS IS.”
https://www.freeenterprise.com/management-advice-from-gordon-bethune-the-ceo-who-saved-continental-airlines/
Simples.
https://www.freeenterprise.com/management-advice-from-gordon-bethune-the-ceo-who-saved-continental-airlines/
Simples.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the seat
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To slow down the exodus, don't you think working 1 month on - 1 month off is a good option to offer right now. You either lose 2 people or gain 1, at least you are keeping one pilot. What would you consider are reasonable package for one off - one on, let me start:
1. To qualify, a Captain with 15 years service in the company and over 50.
2. Half your basic salary.
3. Half the accommodation allowance or be put up in a 4 Star hotel when in DXB - no Premier Inn!!
4. Half the schooling allowance entitlement paid throughout the year with you salary every 2 months.
5. Operate out of your base or get fly as a pax to DXB business class upgradable.
6. Retain all travel benefits.
7. No change to provident contributions.
8. Full medical coverage for you.
9. Sim check, CRM and SEP worked into the month when operating.
10. Retainer on the month off - haven't thought of a figure yet!
11. Overtime kicks in at 78 hours at 1.75 time your hourly rate.
12. Normal hourly flying rate.
Just think, they could work you 600 hours in those months, that's productive!
1. To qualify, a Captain with 15 years service in the company and over 50.
2. Half your basic salary.
3. Half the accommodation allowance or be put up in a 4 Star hotel when in DXB - no Premier Inn!!
4. Half the schooling allowance entitlement paid throughout the year with you salary every 2 months.
5. Operate out of your base or get fly as a pax to DXB business class upgradable.
6. Retain all travel benefits.
7. No change to provident contributions.
8. Full medical coverage for you.
9. Sim check, CRM and SEP worked into the month when operating.
10. Retainer on the month off - haven't thought of a figure yet!
11. Overtime kicks in at 78 hours at 1.75 time your hourly rate.
12. Normal hourly flying rate.
Just think, they could work you 600 hours in those months, that's productive!
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So about $6,000usd per month to be a 777/380 CA? Up to 99 hours flying plus ground duties followed by a month off to recover?
Hmmm. Doesn't sound very tempting. You can make about three times that doing month on month off out of China.
Hmmm. Doesn't sound very tempting. You can make about three times that doing month on month off out of China.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the seat
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dead right, I cocked that one up, I was thinking of a monthly payment and then switched to payment when on duty. So how's this then:
1. To qualify, a Captain with 15 years service in the company and over 50.
2. Full basic salary monthly, that can account for the retainer.
3. Half the accommodation allowance or be put up in a 4 Star hotel when in DXB - no Premier Inn!!
4. Full schooling allowance entitlement paid when you are working.
5. Operate out of your base or get fly as a pax to DXB business class upgradable.
6. Retain all travel benefits.
7. Company pays 7.5% of basic salary to the provident fund as a contribution.
8. Full medical coverage for you.
9. Sim check, CRM and SEP worked into the month when operating.
10. Retainer on the month off - haven't thought of a figure yet!
11. Overtime kicks in at 88 hours at 2 times your hourly rate.
12. Normal hourly flying rate.
With the amount of work right now, I'm not going to see it past the next year and a half so I would like to see some sort of initiative like this being incorporated. I enjoy flying for EK, great aircraft, nice people to work with ON THE AIRCRAFT and great route network, unless you're on the 330. I would rather stay, work less than going across to China, surely there must be a cost associated to that as well?
1. To qualify, a Captain with 15 years service in the company and over 50.
2. Full basic salary monthly, that can account for the retainer.
3. Half the accommodation allowance or be put up in a 4 Star hotel when in DXB - no Premier Inn!!
4. Full schooling allowance entitlement paid when you are working.
5. Operate out of your base or get fly as a pax to DXB business class upgradable.
6. Retain all travel benefits.
7. Company pays 7.5% of basic salary to the provident fund as a contribution.
8. Full medical coverage for you.
9. Sim check, CRM and SEP worked into the month when operating.
10. Retainer on the month off - haven't thought of a figure yet!
11. Overtime kicks in at 88 hours at 2 times your hourly rate.
12. Normal hourly flying rate.
With the amount of work right now, I'm not going to see it past the next year and a half so I would like to see some sort of initiative like this being incorporated. I enjoy flying for EK, great aircraft, nice people to work with ON THE AIRCRAFT and great route network, unless you're on the 330. I would rather stay, work less than going across to China, surely there must be a cost associated to that as well?
short flights long nights
LZ DOC...you think it can't get worse. IMHO, you are very wrong.
Guest
Posts: n/a
LZ.... U think you're going to fly long haul on the EK 330 do you?? Son, do your homework. Neighbor who is 330 captain with 8 years at EK told me he has had no more than 8 days off each month for 6 months consecutive... And only two layovers... In 6 Months! So much for the long haul career you speak of.
K
K
Last edited by Kapitanleutnant; 24th Aug 2015 at 06:06.
short flights long nights
He won't believe you, Kaptain.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 54
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't get much worse at EK? You have got to be kidding!
It is going to get worse and not by a little bit. Oil falling and debts rising. Pilots leaving and no one qualified joining.
As sops says, interesting times ahead.
It is going to get worse and not by a little bit. Oil falling and debts rising. Pilots leaving and no one qualified joining.
As sops says, interesting times ahead.
short flights long nights
I was lucky enough to be able to leave. We own our house, our cars, and our total credit card debt is $500 dollars. I have just converted all our other investments into cash. ( they were basically in cash anyway, I have now changed then so I can access them).
I think there are rocky roads ahead. China is in meltdown.The worlds second biggest economy.
IMHO, things don't look good.
I think there are rocky roads ahead. China is in meltdown.The worlds second biggest economy.
IMHO, things don't look good.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 53
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LZ
Allow me to be as objective as possible. Almost everything you read here is factual, its you who doesn't seem to want to accept it as truth. There was a time 10 years ago that one would aspire to come here and would rightfully feel fortunate for having been selected however that was then...and this is now, and the two are simply not the same anymore. I think you are hanging your hopes on very outdated intel.
What is written here are the observations, frustrations and experiences of people who have been here for long enough to learn the realities. They share these experiences with people like you perhaps who are on fact finding missions about how things are here. Its the hope of those who post here to enlighten the world of what we have lived in our time here.
If you choose to dismiss or reject this info then by all means come and try it out...and go where so many before you have.
As for the bond, here are the facts:
It was raised from 36,000 and 3 years to 45,000 and 5 years to stop the exodus of junior pilots. Those who signed the bond and left within one year generally lost only very little because their provident fund was effectively worthless. The new bond is designed to deter those who want to bolt from 2-5 years seniority as their pension funds would have appreciable value and the company would claw all of it back, including your contribution.
Allow me to be as objective as possible. Almost everything you read here is factual, its you who doesn't seem to want to accept it as truth. There was a time 10 years ago that one would aspire to come here and would rightfully feel fortunate for having been selected however that was then...and this is now, and the two are simply not the same anymore. I think you are hanging your hopes on very outdated intel.
What is written here are the observations, frustrations and experiences of people who have been here for long enough to learn the realities. They share these experiences with people like you perhaps who are on fact finding missions about how things are here. Its the hope of those who post here to enlighten the world of what we have lived in our time here.
If you choose to dismiss or reject this info then by all means come and try it out...and go where so many before you have.
As for the bond, here are the facts:
It was raised from 36,000 and 3 years to 45,000 and 5 years to stop the exodus of junior pilots. Those who signed the bond and left within one year generally lost only very little because their provident fund was effectively worthless. The new bond is designed to deter those who want to bolt from 2-5 years seniority as their pension funds would have appreciable value and the company would claw all of it back, including your contribution.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
usual whining and flogging common for 90% of the threads in this forum.
As I said previously, I do not believe there is perfect job.
As I said previously, I do not believe there is perfect job.
In your home country, you get annoyed and disappointed in your job for sure... But when you leave that aeroplane you go home and you are free and away from work. You have control, you have a certain degree of predictability and you have the laws/regulations of your home country.
Now, if you are to give up that element of freedom outside of work and control like so many have - you expect to be rewarded as such and enjoy the benefits of the contract you signed.
Of course the decision is entirely yours and as a skipper you're using your good judgment to determine the outcome. People here are just providing you with some useful info on the threats and factors to help you with that decision. It's not whining really, just useful evidence to add to the big picture before you commit yourself to a rash decision. Worth bearing in mind that pilots are bad gamblers and make a lot of bad financial decisions....
Good luck in whatever you choose
Last edited by Mr Good Cat; 26th Aug 2015 at 13:42. Reason: Spelling / Grammar / Context
short flights long nights
I think what is really hard to explain to people on the outside, Good Cat, is how the company controls almost every part of your life. If you have not experienced it, it is very hard to understand, let alone explain.
That, IMHO, is where the problem lies.
That, IMHO, is where the problem lies.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your villa is still empty SOPS. 
As is your (Ryanair escapee) next door neighbour's.
As is the one 4 doors up.
As are the few next street over.
As are the ones.......get the picture.
As is your (Ryanair escapee) next door neighbour's.
As is the one 4 doors up.
As are the few next street over.
As are the ones.......get the picture.
short flights long nights
Are they sending all the new joiners to Meydan?
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Within
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So far I get the usual whining and flogging common for 90% of the threads in this forum.
As I said previously, I do not believe there is perfect job.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In Fresh Air
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LZ, look at facts, not opinions. Leave is allocated as they see fit. Majority of pilots not getting their 42 days, only 30. And at times given in four day blocks.
Pilots flying anywhere from 90 to 100 hours per month with no common sense in rostering. You will be flying a good majority of your flights between 2200-0800.
Zero recourse with regards a perceived grievance.
Uncalled for and arbitrary medical testing. You are at the mercy of the company doctors.
NO substantial pay raise for years now. When will one be forth coming? If one was not awarded last year after the second most profitable year.....then what?
No choice, for all practicable purposes, on where you will reside. Of course you may move out of company accommodations, but then at the mercy of some unscrupulous landlords.
And finally, there is a reason that Cabin Crew are resigning in the hundreds monthly.
Your call, mate. All facts, not opinion or speculation.
Pilots flying anywhere from 90 to 100 hours per month with no common sense in rostering. You will be flying a good majority of your flights between 2200-0800.
Zero recourse with regards a perceived grievance.
Uncalled for and arbitrary medical testing. You are at the mercy of the company doctors.
NO substantial pay raise for years now. When will one be forth coming? If one was not awarded last year after the second most profitable year.....then what?
No choice, for all practicable purposes, on where you will reside. Of course you may move out of company accommodations, but then at the mercy of some unscrupulous landlords.
And finally, there is a reason that Cabin Crew are resigning in the hundreds monthly.
Your call, mate. All facts, not opinion or speculation.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: free Europe
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trapped
Don't forget that once you sign on YOU ARE TRAPPED. No significant leave, no useable off days and then the 5 weeks reserve. When do you think you will go somewhere else for an assessment?
In addition there are the financial penalties. You will be stuck in Dubai whether you like it or not.
In addition there are the financial penalties. You will be stuck in Dubai whether you like it or not.
LZ, you might try to be courteous to your prospective, future colleagues. Rather than quoting the 'usual whining'. Essentially, you know nothing as to what is going on here but as is common, trying to make the facts fit despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Good luck with that DEC assessment.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dubai
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LZ,
Maybe you could start by referring to Pakistanis as Pakistanis. The term 'Paki' is regarded as a derogatory phrase these days. But then again, you would know that if you knew the area so well.....
WTD
Maybe you could start by referring to Pakistanis as Pakistanis. The term 'Paki' is regarded as a derogatory phrase these days. But then again, you would know that if you knew the area so well.....
WTD