How big do you think the exodus from EK will be....
I feel that flight safety is now being compromised the recipe for disaster is there.....overworked, tired de motivated pilots in my near 13 years here I have never known it like this.
I am not going to work under these conditions 95 hours plus every month does not interest me and for long term health it's a non starter.
I am not going to work under these conditions 95 hours plus every month does not interest me and for long term health it's a non starter.
I sincerely hope against hope that this is not the case but honestly? Do you think that Commercial or Flt Ops are even aware of the pressure we are under?
I remember after the MEL incident all the arse covering that went on and the strenuous denials in the various branches of the media when the verboten word "fatigue" was mentioned. Shoot the messenger, ignore the evidence, surround yourself with yes men, just wait until something goes wrong and watch and listen to the howls of how nobody knew anything.
Exodus? well what ever it's called, it is accelerating.
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LHR rain: I totally agree with you, I'm very stupid. If nobody leaves and everybody outside of EK chooses to join it would alleviate all of your problems and vindicate your friendly British management.
I have been following this post with interest and wonder if anyone can tell me if the 90+ hours a month are duty or actual stick time hours. Also if flying ultra long haul how many actual flights a month does it take to accumulate the 90+ hours?
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
short flights long nights
Those hours my friend are stick time. And on ULRs, your time in the bunk is "factored" so you don't get full credit for the entire flight time.
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Thing is bingo, we don't just do ULR flights. We can do a ULR followed by all - night turns to India, depending on your fleet. Short, long and ultra long haul - its the mix thats the killer and that enables them to mess our rosters around. If you just did ULR you would get to 96hrs after 3 trips.
And its stick time (including bunk) not duty hours when we talk of 90+hrs a month. Dread to think how many duty hours we do.
And its stick time (including bunk) not duty hours when we talk of 90+hrs a month. Dread to think how many duty hours we do.
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The amount of pilots leaving in August is approx 35 give or take. I have seen an e mail to verify this.
Also, many F/Os and a few Captains have been getting calls on days off, so yes we are short all round. I will not be doing any flights on my days off.
Helen-D I hope not
But could believe it.
Bingofuel. Its block time, chocks off-chocks on. Duty time is ways more. ULRs are >14 hrs, so you could do 3 x ULRs a month. Of course EK say that when you are augmenting, only the time in the seat count
SyB
Also, many F/Os and a few Captains have been getting calls on days off, so yes we are short all round. I will not be doing any flights on my days off.
Helen-D I hope not
But could believe it.Bingofuel. Its block time, chocks off-chocks on. Duty time is ways more. ULRs are >14 hrs, so you could do 3 x ULRs a month. Of course EK say that when you are augmenting, only the time in the seat count
SyB
Has the SIN-BNE been confirmed/announced? I thought it was the SIN-MEL which is much better
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GD,
Frying pan and fire spring to mind ��
I spent a little time renewing my visa the other day and bumped into 4 mates that are leaving. I find it pretty unsettling. Looking tonight I have gone up 25 places on the seniority list in the last 4 months which doesn't sound much but I am in the top 300.
There are really 3 choices:
1. Flog the employees until it goes horribly wrong.
2. Buy a way out of the hole by increasing remuneration massively.
3. Get the company out of the employees lives. Stop being petty, anything that cost the company nothing but improves the QOL of the employees should be implemented immediately. Recognise inflation exists and increase pay commensurately.
Option 3 gets the employees on side, they tell their mates what a great place EK is to work at, the snowball rolls and the problem is fixed in the medium term. Benefits to the company happy employees that support the goals of the company, improved service and happy repeat customers.
So a fix is actually not that difficult and can be achieved without too much cost to the company. Will it happen....?
Our carears are stagnent, we are undercut by C scale guys.
I spent a little time renewing my visa the other day and bumped into 4 mates that are leaving. I find it pretty unsettling. Looking tonight I have gone up 25 places on the seniority list in the last 4 months which doesn't sound much but I am in the top 300.
There are really 3 choices:
1. Flog the employees until it goes horribly wrong.
2. Buy a way out of the hole by increasing remuneration massively.
3. Get the company out of the employees lives. Stop being petty, anything that cost the company nothing but improves the QOL of the employees should be implemented immediately. Recognise inflation exists and increase pay commensurately.
Option 3 gets the employees on side, they tell their mates what a great place EK is to work at, the snowball rolls and the problem is fixed in the medium term. Benefits to the company happy employees that support the goals of the company, improved service and happy repeat customers.
So a fix is actually not that difficult and can be achieved without too much cost to the company. Will it happen....?
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Green D
LR 3 is spot on.
One of the toughest seats to man here is the LHS & RHS of the A330.
Countless stories of guys showing up offered the Boeing and then being placed on the A330. If you don't believe it ask the recruiter in the interview. No way he/she could tell you otherwise. That would be a direct and explicit lie.
To give you an idea of the integrity of our HR - every year we do two ground school wash ups with mgt & HR - and it's the only chance we get to exchange our views as a group. We regularly bring up legitimate and serious concerns.
EVERY time we are told by the HR woman (always female) - "fair enough we will look into it and get back to you on it."
Never and I mean never - has anyone of the group of usually 12 guys EVER had the courtesy of a HR rep taking the time to copy those 12 guys and give feed back.
These people are meant to be at the pinnacle of principled professionalism by being at a managerial level in charge of the livlihood of us, the white colored professionals at the tip of the spear of this might mega PR op.
They DONT CARE. Ive ask every pilot I flown with over the years - "do they ever get back to you?"
Not going to happen
So come on over...but you have been warned a d BTW that villa you were shown is like the fleet you came for ...don't hold your breath.
f.
LR 3 is spot on.
One of the toughest seats to man here is the LHS & RHS of the A330.
Countless stories of guys showing up offered the Boeing and then being placed on the A330. If you don't believe it ask the recruiter in the interview. No way he/she could tell you otherwise. That would be a direct and explicit lie.
To give you an idea of the integrity of our HR - every year we do two ground school wash ups with mgt & HR - and it's the only chance we get to exchange our views as a group. We regularly bring up legitimate and serious concerns.
EVERY time we are told by the HR woman (always female) - "fair enough we will look into it and get back to you on it."
Never and I mean never - has anyone of the group of usually 12 guys EVER had the courtesy of a HR rep taking the time to copy those 12 guys and give feed back.
These people are meant to be at the pinnacle of principled professionalism by being at a managerial level in charge of the livlihood of us, the white colored professionals at the tip of the spear of this might mega PR op.
They DONT CARE. Ive ask every pilot I flown with over the years - "do they ever get back to you?"
Not going to happen
So come on over...but you have been warned a d BTW that villa you were shown is like the fleet you came for ...don't hold your breath.
f.
Over the last several years, condition and QOL have steadily decreased at Emirates.
To anyone who has been here and witnessed this, it seems a good reason to be disheartened, unmotivated, and keen to look elsewhere.
Thing is, this misses an essential truth- QOL worldwide for ANYONE but a very small percentage of the worlds population has been at best stagnant, and for most negative across the board of socio-economic status or professional qualification.
This is borne out by a simple question most EK pilots have trouble answering- where do you go?
Even the Americans can find this question hard to answer- I recently had a conversation with a US pilot who related how, despite being eminently qualified, could not get an interview with a US major as they are still in the mindset that a bright-eyed young regional pilot, of which there are still many, is the ideal candidate. Many US flight departments can't get their minds around why a guy would leave an imminent wide-body, international command to come fly an MD-80 as FO out of pig-knuckle Arkansas.
But, even if every American in EK got a job with a major, that still leaves 90% of the company.
The Europeans might go to Ryan, Norwegian or EZ- all, in this era of a supposed competitive market for pilots, offering packages that are materially inferior, but have the advantage of being in or at least near a lot of peoples home.
Some will leave for that, but it is never likely to match the number coming the other way, and still leaves the 80% or so who originate from other geographical regions, and for whom there is nothing on offer that even remotely compares.
So where? China? Perhaps for a few, but the Chinese reputation for reneging on contracts, and the view that most Chinese corporate cultures are even worse that EK will limit it to a few.
Bottom line- attrition may become problematic, and recruitment challenging- but a huge exodus with no ability to replace? IMHO very unlikely.
To anyone who has been here and witnessed this, it seems a good reason to be disheartened, unmotivated, and keen to look elsewhere.
Thing is, this misses an essential truth- QOL worldwide for ANYONE but a very small percentage of the worlds population has been at best stagnant, and for most negative across the board of socio-economic status or professional qualification.
This is borne out by a simple question most EK pilots have trouble answering- where do you go?
Even the Americans can find this question hard to answer- I recently had a conversation with a US pilot who related how, despite being eminently qualified, could not get an interview with a US major as they are still in the mindset that a bright-eyed young regional pilot, of which there are still many, is the ideal candidate. Many US flight departments can't get their minds around why a guy would leave an imminent wide-body, international command to come fly an MD-80 as FO out of pig-knuckle Arkansas.
But, even if every American in EK got a job with a major, that still leaves 90% of the company.
The Europeans might go to Ryan, Norwegian or EZ- all, in this era of a supposed competitive market for pilots, offering packages that are materially inferior, but have the advantage of being in or at least near a lot of peoples home.
Some will leave for that, but it is never likely to match the number coming the other way, and still leaves the 80% or so who originate from other geographical regions, and for whom there is nothing on offer that even remotely compares.
So where? China? Perhaps for a few, but the Chinese reputation for reneging on contracts, and the view that most Chinese corporate cultures are even worse that EK will limit it to a few.
Bottom line- attrition may become problematic, and recruitment challenging- but a huge exodus with no ability to replace? IMHO very unlikely.
