Lowered requirements Emirates
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Children do the Maths. Yes it's not great but it also not as bad as you make it. Currently 5 % short of pilots. Yes some are doing 90 + hrs but you have to look at the 12 month total . Pprune experts are those that have all flown + 1000 unfactored . Now the 4 A/C that arrived on Thursday ? That could prove a challenge .
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I can't personally do the maths as I only have access to the seniority list as it stands on the portal - which is not correct and includes a lot of guys who are long gone and lists a few current skippers as FOs despite them going through the course 6 months ago.
The recruitment guys and those in training obviously would have access to the real figures so I'll leave it to you guys...
The recruitment guys and those in training obviously would have access to the real figures so I'll leave it to you guys...
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DECs had to happen for 380 and 777
But typical head in the sand mentality has denied the fact that this isn't a case of 'build it and they will come' like the completely delusional running the place seem to believe. A simple look out of the window would show them that corn can't grow here in the first place......
When will they get one simple fact: Dubai is a dump, and even those who say they 'like' living here are performing a certain amount of self-delusion. Nobody would place it in their top 100 places to live by choice. It is nothing more than one giant mirage. Pilots came here because EK was a good place to work and offered a fairly reasonable career path. Now they want to destroy that path. One of the top reasons pilots have been attracted to EK will be removed if they employ DECs while they have an abundance of qualified FOs to step into the left seat, but can't move them because of their self-induced recruiting problems.
They will reap what they sow. Managing an increase in resignations by kicking sand in the face of current suffering employees? What a strategy. Not only will Captains keep leaving, but now so too will FOs. With the recent letter sent to guys who had their CCP cancelled and told 'when you are within 18 months it will be rescheduled' nobody needs a cattle prod anymore to understand not just the new recruits, but also the current 4+year FOs are going to spend a loooooong time in the RH seat.
In a company that has no respect for you.
In a country that has no respect for you.
Guys/girls will apply for the DEC jobs. That is a given. But for the first time I'd suggest reading a little bit - and that means reading between the lines - of what is occurring financially in the UAE, the region and the world. Things literally do not add up in Dubai, and it appears that a certain popping sound is not too far off.
Last edited by keepitrealok; 7th Sep 2015 at 06:37. Reason: *too for *to. That really annoys me! :-)
Calm it keepitreal. Every single FO in the company joined knowing that EK hires DECs. If it didn't worry them when they joined I couldn't see it worrying them now.
Oh no. Is the hiring of DECs different now? I didn't know. Will have to ask some of the 7 and 8 year FOs on the Bus.
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I think what the guys are getting at Don is in the past EK has hired DECs when they haven't been able to upgrade F/O's quick enough or there was a lack of Qualified F/O's.(but never had a problem recruiting F/O's in parallel to DECs to meet expansion).
Now they are or will be hiring DEC's when there is an abundance of qualified F/O's that will be frozen in position due to poor planning due to the fact they can not attract suitably qualified f/o's to fill the void in the numbers required.
Subtle difference.
Now they are or will be hiring DEC's when there is an abundance of qualified F/O's that will be frozen in position due to poor planning due to the fact they can not attract suitably qualified f/o's to fill the void in the numbers required.
Subtle difference.
Last edited by OnceBitten; 7th Sep 2015 at 06:49.
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Don's right. FOs were frozen in position in the past when they could've been upgraded, also due to poor planning, same as this time. The fundamental difference is today it's happening to FO "Me" instead of FO "Him." Could be a generational thing.
Oncebitten, each time DECs have been hired, FOs eligible for command have been bypassed. If you don't believe me ask any fella who joined within the past 12 years on the Bus. This is nothing new. It might not be right, but every FO here now knew this happened when they joined.
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Not saying it's wrong or right, what i'm saying is in the past guys that have been frozen have been frozen due to training requirements in the fact that EK couldn't train up fast enough, so it was a training department issue.
Now it appears it is a recruitment issue.
My point being is that the subtle difference is that in the past EK where in the enviable position that they could fill both ranks with qualified applicants when it was required and then left to training to sort out the numbers. At the moment the numbers aren't even coming through the door for training to sort out, and it actually appears that more are filing out the back door than in through the front.
So the fundamentals have changed from the past of why we now require more DECs.
Now it appears it is a recruitment issue.
My point being is that the subtle difference is that in the past EK where in the enviable position that they could fill both ranks with qualified applicants when it was required and then left to training to sort out the numbers. At the moment the numbers aren't even coming through the door for training to sort out, and it actually appears that more are filing out the back door than in through the front.
So the fundamentals have changed from the past of why we now require more DECs.
Last edited by OnceBitten; 7th Sep 2015 at 07:07.
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I can't personally do the maths as I only have access to the seniority list as it stands on the portal - which is not correct and includes a lot of guys who are long gone and lists a few current skippers as FOs despite them going through the course 6 months ago.
The recruitment guys and those in training obviously would have access to the real figures so I'll leave it to you guys...
The recruitment guys and those in training obviously would have access to the real figures so I'll leave it to you guys...
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Don and JAA,
I think you both may have missed this line -
I am not denying that some pilots have been affected in the past. I will however argue why that occurred. And it is a very different reason to now.
JAARule, it has nothing to do with
Maybe that's how you see the world. It's not how I do.
I think you both may have missed this line -
One of the top reasons pilots have been attracted to EK will be removed if they employ DECs while they have an abundance of qualified FOs to step into the left seat, but can't move them because of their self-induced recruiting problems.
JAARule, it has nothing to do with
FO "Me" instead of FO "Him."
Keepitreal,
Entry requirements were lowered to 2000hr modern jet to try and get people in the door. EK believes shiny big jets might be more attractive to the young. DECs were hired in the past to fill gaps. Just like they will be again.
No matter what the reason, the end result is the same. The hiring of DECs will delay the progress of FOs in company. It did this way back in 2003 just like it does now. The only difference is that those fellas in 2003 had more experience, and were lied to by the company when it happened. All FOs now knew what they were joining.
Entry requirements were lowered to 2000hr modern jet to try and get people in the door. EK believes shiny big jets might be more attractive to the young. DECs were hired in the past to fill gaps. Just like they will be again.
No matter what the reason, the end result is the same. The hiring of DECs will delay the progress of FOs in company. It did this way back in 2003 just like it does now. The only difference is that those fellas in 2003 had more experience, and were lied to by the company when it happened. All FOs now knew what they were joining.
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EK HR is now sitting in the ruins of their hiring strategy. What I do not understand is why did they rely on that strategy when it was foreseeable that those strategy will fail. The growth plan/expansion strategy isn't something new, but they still follow their old model. Esp. when a HR department has to compete with 2 other large airlines which follow nearly the same business/growth model.
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I get the sense that don was one of those disadvantaged and "lied" to in the past about DEC's, the way he constantly makes multiple posts about it and taking some weird pleasure in constantly reminding the current misfortunates that "they should know better". We get it, message received, people are idiots for believing a word that comes out of EK's mouths. Hopefully he can let it go someday.
But it misses the point completely, which OnceBitten nails perfectly. The current DEC push, (which will fail miserably, for reasons tirren just summarized nicely) isn't about training shortages or unqualified FO's, it's about a desperate attempt to fill seats...period. Bandaids on haemorrhaging arteries, as usual.
Management at a recent washup stated that the lack of recruitment was due to the number of employment choices pilots have right now. It was then pointed out that in the past, EK always WAS the employer of first choice, at least in the ME, and why has this changed?
To that, he had no comment.
They don't even believe their own bs anymore.
Gulf Air 2.0.
But it misses the point completely, which OnceBitten nails perfectly. The current DEC push, (which will fail miserably, for reasons tirren just summarized nicely) isn't about training shortages or unqualified FO's, it's about a desperate attempt to fill seats...period. Bandaids on haemorrhaging arteries, as usual.
Management at a recent washup stated that the lack of recruitment was due to the number of employment choices pilots have right now. It was then pointed out that in the past, EK always WAS the employer of first choice, at least in the ME, and why has this changed?
To that, he had no comment.
They don't even believe their own bs anymore.
Gulf Air 2.0.
short flights long nights
As I have said a lot ( with a lot our hate mail) it is simple. If EK treated the pilots that they have ( or used to have) with some deceney then they would have not this problem. That's it, end of story.
As I said on a previous post, I had dinner with 5 other ' retired' Ex EK captains last week. Over 100000 hours among us. We had all left for the same reason..enough was enough.
Enough said.....
As I said on a previous post, I had dinner with 5 other ' retired' Ex EK captains last week. Over 100000 hours among us. We had all left for the same reason..enough was enough.
Enough said.....
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ExDubai and Oldaircrew
If you talk to the recruitment gals and boys as well as to the relevant HR people, the problem originates and culminates at the same person responsible for the scheduling tragedy.
This frustrated mismanaging local will most probably one day be regarded as almost criminal how he directed this company close to an abyss.
I just wonder by what teflon coating he still enjoys protection by the royal family ..... Even in this dump face saving must have a certain limit!
If you talk to the recruitment gals and boys as well as to the relevant HR people, the problem originates and culminates at the same person responsible for the scheduling tragedy.
This frustrated mismanaging local will most probably one day be regarded as almost criminal how he directed this company close to an abyss.
I just wonder by what teflon coating he still enjoys protection by the royal family ..... Even in this dump face saving must have a certain limit!
short flights long nights
Glofish...its Gulf Air mark two. I can not for the life of me understand why the person you refer to has been given so much power and leeway, allowing him to destroy what was a once great airline. I just don't get it. And I don't get that STC sits but to see his legacy destroyed. ( or perhaps he has enough money in the bank he just does not care).
I'm wondering how long it will take those at the really really top of the pile to realise what is going on.
I'm wondering how long it will take those at the really really top of the pile to realise what is going on.