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Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

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Old 12th Oct 2017, 13:18   #3681 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Originally Posted by Underrated and Moderated View Post
HE.....thanks for taking the time and sticking your neck out and saying "Yeah....I quite like it mate!"

I knew a Captain there who was tired of it and went back to Spain to fly for RyanPants. He messaged the other day to say that whilst his wife and family were back, where they came from (he was actually Argentinian himself), he said he missed the money, the decent folk he flew with and the interesting routes. Prior to leaving, he said he was considering a commuting contract to the Far East and is already looking at doing that again, from Spain, because he just doesn't enjoy what he is doing now, as much as FZ.

I'm going for it with eyes open and a long term goal. I have been in the Corporate jet World for years and become disillusioned by it. The corner cutting. The wage cutting. The back stabbing....its all a bit too "personal" for want of a better expression. I'd like to fly the Boeing. I'd like to gain a Command again on one at some point and I'd like the chance to challenge myself in an airline environment. I am under no illusion that FZ will be an easy job/walk in the park....but am expecting it to be pretty tough.

I'm going to risk sounding (more...) like a dunce now....how does the whole "bidding" system work for time off for annual leave etc?? I'm not after any yet...just like to know how it works at an airline...never having dealt with it in the past.

Cheers all.....
I'm LHS and relatively senior so it's not really reflective of how your situation is gonna be. I know the junior guys have it very tough. BUT, the junior FO's have it easier than the junior Captains. There's a really big gradient between LHS and RHS in terms of what you can get bidding wise. Bidding works purely based on seniority. We are tight on Captains and I think are slightly over on the number of FO's requird. Having said that during the winter season we have more nightstops and that's heavy on crew. Basically you tell the system what you want to do. Days off and flights/stby's then get assigned according to your seniority and bid preference. There is a massive rumor that the system get's manipulated manually but I'm not getting mix up in that argument. Getting your days off when you want them is VERY difficult. And it can be very frustrating when the system throws in a stby just before your leave and after a batch of 4 days off. That's a discussion that's been going on for a long time. Hopefully one day we get a solution. Inshallah...

Basically as a junior guy you fly a lot of nights and body clock flips. For an FO that will change after about 1.5 year and you get some nice trips thrown in too. Stuff that you requested. For a new Captain that won't change for at least 3-5 years. (my guess) Hence some junior Captains are leaving early. The expansion with the MAX and associated rumored nightstops might change that a bit. But the nice thing about flydubai is being home every night so how attractive that is is left to be seen.

Leave works on the same seniority system too. Six round of bidding to assign 7 weeks of leave. The 1 golden day off bidding per month works in reverse seniority.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 16:13   #3682 (permalink)
 
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Thanks for this HE.

To be fair, as a Corporate jockey, I've spent most of my flying career, being away for weeks at a time and then getting a few days off between....and sometimes longer. However, whilst that can work well....and the time off is great, the time ON again, is filled with dread, as you go on to fly crazy long days (due to lack of regulatory authority.....I pulled 30-40 hour long days without rest, more times than I would like to think about)...have no idea when you are getting home....cant book holiday at all....so it's all horses for courses. As I have said previously, I believe that you need to go into these things with your eyes open. Sure, it's not perfect...show me a job that is and I will show you a waiting list of applicants to get into it, as high as the Empire State Building! Getting home every day is appealing.

Any idea what routes are rumoured? European?? More Far East? Just interested.

Seems to me....go in...pay your dues...move up the ranks slowly, but surely and have a rethink after 3 years if it isn't for you?? At least there are other opportunities in the Far East then...?
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 19:16   #3683 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Underrated and Moderated View Post
Seems to me....go in...pay your dues...move up the ranks slowly, but surely and have a rethink after 3 years if it isn't for you?? At least there are other opportunities in the Far East then...?
Spot on. I've flown with a few ex-corporate guys and they (and their families) absolutely love it here. Tough at times but no way near how their corporate life used to be. The longest day we do is around 14hrs IIRC. (deadheads)

There are many rumored new routes ranging from Europe to the Far East. I'll believe it when we see the announcement. The big unknown is this unfolding Emirates partnership.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 21:58   #3684 (permalink)
 
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Its all the rage, chatting about it at EK too. My mate is an FO on the Triple for EK and he says the rumour has gone on and on for quite some time. My understanding is, that FZ are already "easing the burden" on some of the EK network, by fulfilling flights/codeshares with the 737, meaning EK aren't having to fly those routes with three quarters of the plane empty. Who know what a full partnership could mean for the crews up front and down back? Sideways moves for some? Similar recompense/deals on accommodation and transport??? Who knows?

So, are there particular parts that FZ families tend to live....?? Sorry H.E....I've thrown loads of questions at you!!!
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 08:28   #3685 (permalink)
 
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So, are there particular parts that FZ families tend to live....?? Sorry H.E....I've thrown loads of questions at you!!!
I think most families live in The Ranches, Springs, Meira, Downtown, Remraam, The Marina and JVC. Families with kids tend to choose a place close(er) to their kids school.
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Old 14th Oct 2017, 09:09   #3686 (permalink)
 
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Thanks for all the answers H.E....much appreciated. I had been looking at the Ranches. Looks to me like the latest package from FZ re accommodation, will cover the basic rent of a decent place (nearly...have to throw some extra at it for an ideal spot).

So, does anyone have any idea of timespan involved if you go ahead and complete the final assessment/sim and get offered a position? Do they want you to move within weeks....months...?? I am just wondering how quick you, as a candidate, has to move (not just physically...I mean, in a get your into gear kind. of way!). I am thinking, have to sell up in the UK, sort out school and preschool for the kiddywinks....stick furniture into a container etc....seems like there would, obviously be, a massive upheaval prior to actually arriving.

Lastly (for now) peeps..... how long does the TR take at CAE?

U and M
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Old 14th Oct 2017, 10:42   #3687 (permalink)
 
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pro tip.. if you do come, come by yourself and only tell the family to arrive 3 months after you once all training is done and the dust is settled... The first 3 months is absolute chaos and with the CAE personel (read idiots) involved, you really need to focus purely on the training, especially if you are non type rated.

I know of 3 guys in july, all from the same intake who resigned during the training because of the CAE instructors hurling abuse at them and insulting them..

Dubai at the moment is a renters market, and in my opinion the places in the ranches are way too expensive for what you can get elsewhere.. I have just moved into a 5 bed + study place for cheaper than a 3 bed in the ranches.. Granted the area I am in now isnt finished yet but once it is it will be pretty awesome (inshallah...). Other places to look are Mudon/Akoya (at the trump golf course)/Mira Oasis (releasing from december on wards)/Living Legends/Falcon city/Marina etc etc .. If you want to save money go to Mirdiff and you can get good size places for 30-40k cheaper than other areas (there is a reason for that though..).

Like HE said, junior in the left seat is pretty brutal, but from what i have seen on the rosters, seniority has little effect on how/what trips are awarded.. It probably has to do with under staffing as mentioned. People in the top 20 are doing night flights while brand new captains at the bottom of the seniority lists are getting highly sought after flights (prague/bangkok/day european flights etc).
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 10:07   #3688 (permalink)
 
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Folks ..... thanks for all the responses. Really appreciate the time.

Will look at a few other areas as suggested. I was thinking I would need some additiona time to get sorted before the family joined me. I wonder what thentime span is from “Job offer “ to “Get your arse down here and start a course...!”??

Somewhat shocked to read people have quit during the TR at CAE due to abuse etc. Now, I have to say, I have been on initial type ratings where twice, people have wound the instructors up to the point of them letting rip.....first time, was on the Citation Sovereign where two guys talked and discussed in their native tongue, through the written exam. I was angry....as it was off putting and unnecessary....however, the instructor was livid and made them sit it again...different papers though and at different times and, the second time was on the Challenger initial I did where the guy I was with, refused to adhere to a particular procedure or checklist and got all shi**y about it when the sim instructor told him he had to do it a particular way. That was a case of the guy thinking he knew better ..... and didn’t....and I ended up telling the guy that if we wanted to get through the checkride, he’d better pull his socks up and do what was needed. What I am getting at is, maybe the guys getting abuse hurled at them, were not listening/paying attention....maybe they had literally wound the instructor up the point of “BOOM”?? Just interested....as I happen to know a couple of guys at CAE and neither are in any way, impatient and short tempered and take their job seriously...trying to ensure people have the required knowledge and beyond??

Thanks all
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 10:29   #3689 (permalink)
 
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As had been said on here there are many choices of areas to live, best plan is to get here, do the type rating and look around, preferably with spouse and family before you choose an area to live in, and if you have school aged kids think about where you want them to go to school, and how you will get them there. School busses are expensive (although the education allowance should cover it). However the traffic is appalling at school run time, and if you live furthest from the school the bus can be picking up at 0630 every morning and the kids will be knackered.
It also might be an idea to consider letting your house in the UK if you can cover the mortgage, and putting furniture in storage. Its easy to ship
a container out here, but unless you're sure that you, and importantly the family, will be happy here it might be a good idea initially to keep a base in the UK.
Also don't be lulled into a false sense of security by the promise of a decent roster within 1 - 2 years. If you plan to upgrade to captain, at the moment people are upgrading after two years (not all, obviously as it depends on experience, ability and luck), and when you upgrade you are right back there getting all the flights the senior guys don't want, in the middle of the night, possibly with relevantly inexperienced F/Os, plus finding it difficult to have quality time at weekends or evenings with the family.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 13:47   #3690 (permalink)
 
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Thanks excrab......all makes sense. I think we may well keep the house in the UK if at all possible and try to get out to DXB in the New Year together, if I get through the selection process. I've had quite a few visits to DXB myself over the years (most rich folk go there for various reasons, in their pet jets).

I've actually seen they are having UK assessments in London next month (through different recruiter) and I may well try and get in on that.....I may have to ask Bota in HR very nicely! I have a couple of issues that I need to clear up (electronic logbook....and last recurrent was last year...but then, I'm not rated on 738 anyway...!). Would be easier than travelling to DXB etc.

I think I may have asked before...but not sure if there was a definitive answer. What is the approx time from "Zero to Hero" re the TR course? Also, I guess there is a licence conversion process....
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 17:17   #3691 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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I really think coming without family is the best option. From getting the job offer to passing the linecheck took me exactly 4 months. I had almost six weeks between job offer and starting. It could have been 1 week but that was too quick for me. Now I'd wish I'd taken that offer as I would have been quite a bit higher in seniority. I remember we had full classes every 10 days or so.

I believe that flydubai still does not officially give you the housing allowance cheque untill you've passed your final linecheck successfully. BUT there is a workaround they apply for you to get the allownce earlier. Basically have your other halve look at propertyfinder.me and search areas and get a rough idea for what you both want. Then go have a look after you've done your groundschool.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 20:09   #3692 (permalink)
 
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Thanks H.E. It all makes sense.

I do have some other complications to figure out for family and healthcare (long, sad story), but this is something I would sort. I'm due to go to DXB for the assessment in December. Who knows how I will get on, but will give it my best shot. The whole "Group exercise"thing is very new to me....but I am hoping that I will get on okay, otherwise I will be sat around in DXB for a few days having been kicked out at lunchtime on day one ....H.E.....I will buy you a drink if I am!!!

I am sure there are a load more questions....but I don't want to bug people, so will give a few days before I bring them up.... thanks all....awesome feedback
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 17:04   #3693 (permalink)


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Hey all, Has anyone on here got some FZ roster examples?
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 18:33   #3694 (permalink)
 
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High Energy
Quote:
There is a massive rumor that the system get's manipulated manually but I'm not getting mix up in that argument.
Does your roster say "P" on any of the days?
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 20:47   #3695 (permalink)


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I have been here with FlyDubai for a bit and after reading your post and response to another colleague regarding training, id like to provide you with more input about it. The company overall has its pros and cons like every airline does and the people on the line are generally all very cool and fun to fly with. However, training lately with CAE has been disgraceful. The three guys that were mentioned in the post that resigned earlier this summer in training were actually quite sharp and experienced. I had a chance to meet them during their training through another mutual friend. The instructor who gave them a hard time during training is the head of training at CAE and honestly he is a @ss for sure. He has failed many other pilots here at FZ during recurrent and two of these pilots filed a complaint against him with FZ and CAE corporate as he made racist remarks to them in the training which of course nobody accepts and used abusive language and created a hostile environment with them three. I am not surprised by that as i said I know few other FZ pilots who went through recurrent with him and they had the same experience. I just dont know why he is still instructing our pilots as he is a disgrace. The three pilots resigned were all from USA surprisingly and they each had 4k-5k total time with multiple type ratings each and were flying for US airlines back in the US, in fact one of them was already typed on the 737. So it is a total shame that we lost quality pilots because losing 3-4 pilots in a week for the same reason indicates a flaw in the CAE training program. Like my colleague above said, the instructor and the head of CAE there are all idiots apart from maybe few. There there just to get paid and check the box for you to show up to the training session. And honestly, they clearly make it clear to you that we are not here to spoonfeed or teach, just read the manuals and we can only guide you. So yes for someone who is not used to that, they will not like it here. So my best advice if you do come, just make sure you read the manuals and do everything by the book so nobody can point you out. And if you have that racist instructor from CAE, and you will know who he is as he is quite famous here for that, just do as he says and dont argue with him cause if you do he will make sure you wont go forward and will make it personal grudge against you, and find a reason to fail you out, like he did with pilots earlier this summer. Other than that the company itself is super nice and our CP is wonderful, its just i wish that soon they will have their in house training rather than relying on those idiots at CAE.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 15:08   #3696 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2003
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Dubai Dec assessment

Hi guys I have an DEC assessment next month anyone just done the assessment in September care to give feedback would sincerely appreciate it. Please pm me
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Old 20th Oct 2017, 15:26   #3697 (permalink)
 
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Wouldn't mind as much info about assessments etc myself.... (quoting gta flyer above^^)

Surely, if the CAE instructor has repeated allegations made....they will smell a rat?! It is a shame it isn't done in house....I havent dealt with CAE (only ever FSI), however, I have a VERY good friend there on a different aircraft/program and he is super efficient...and well connected (top notch ex Cathay sort).

FZ seem to be losing and recruiting a lot, with the new aircraft always arriving and on the verge of more routes and some kind of hook up with EK....beyond the shared ownership/loyalty program....and I they recently binned a number of assessment days in IST, as there simply weren't enough candidates!! Says to me that they need pilots, cant get enough and good guys being washed out by ***holes, is seriously detrimental to their larger plans!!
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Old 20th Oct 2017, 18:34   #3698 (permalink)
 
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Guys don't sweat too much, they're so desperate they take anyone with a pulse these days
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 13:47   #3699 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Any chance to see a few roster samples?
Thanks!
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 17:25   #3700 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Guys don't sweat too much, they're so desperate they take anyone with a pulse these days

Bloody hell....I could be in with a shout....!!!!
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