Interviews, jobs & sponsorshipDo ya feel lucky, Punk? Well do ya? If so, here's the place to swap the hot gen on who's sponsoring or employing, their selection criteria, and where those oh so elusive first jobs can be spotted in the wild. Watch out for the tumbleweeds...
I'm just trying to get an idea of what the current situation will lead us to...
Do you remember the old times? When everyone with a licence would easily get a job (obviously, relatively easy)? I have a friend who was hired by Ryanair and all they asked him at the interview was if he liked their cabin crews!!
Anyway, here came 2009 an everyhing went down hill: companies went burst, loads of experienced pilots around, no recruitment from anyone...
Three years have passed... Things are starting to go back up... but just how good will they get?
Unfortunately I finished my CPL/IR training JUST in time for this economic nightmare... Had one interview with RYR and () I failed it!
I let my IR/ME rating expire last year because with the job I have now, I cannot afford £1.600 renewal fees every year... Also let my medical expire...
I'm waiting for some better times to renew everything... Because paying all that money for "maybe" a one only chance of interview in a year... looks a bit crazy...
Do you think I'm doing the right thing? Anyone else feeling this way, or in my same position?
no.... i am in the same situation.... no job , no money , nothing.....but with all the licences and medical current......keep your licences current because you never know what will happen in the future, you must be ready for an immediate assesment and if you are not current you can lose maybe the only chance to get a job That s only in my opinion
Do you remember the old times? When everyone with a licence would easily get a job (obviously, relatively easy)?
Yes, I do remember the old times. When I got my CPL/IR in 1990 there were no jobs for years to come. And when I got my ATPL in 2001 it was even worse (9-11 was two weeks before I did the MCC course). I had to change my plans many times during the last 20 years, did other work than flying and when flying, it was mostly on piston twins and instructing on singles. Flying as "safety pilot" with self flying businessmen and things like that. Not much money, but a lot of precious flying experience ( and fun and good times!). And cheaper than to keep current at my own expense.
Do you think I'm doing the right thing?
No. Never ever let your license lapse. Forget about the airlines (especially if over thirty and without flying hours, sorry to say that!). There are more jobs in general aviation anyway, and if they become awailable, then always at very short notice. Only a valid license and some recent flying experience will get you one of those. I know this is easier said then done, but if your current job does not allow you to maintain your license, you need a different job. Never stop networking. Call your buddies from the flying school regularly, keep talking to your old instructors. Follow every rumour!
It looks like that if you want to join the airline, you have to pay for it for the first stage. Old pilots blame new pilots for this situation when maybe the fault is theirs to not have stopped the trend several years ago.
I disagree with the two statements above about forgetting the Airlines if over 30. I started the Thomas Cook Cadet Scheme at 30 and I was by no means the oldest on the course, there was a 43 y/o who got a jet Airline job within 2 month of qualifying.
I say its all about the level of commitment you show and how far you're willing to go to get your job. And tarts not just your first job, but any subsequent job. I managed to get a job with another Airline when I was 33 and I only had 800 hours in total, with about 500 on jet.
I've been told many times that I would never make it and I'd never get a job, but I'm now unfrozen, working for a good company and have the future to look forward to.
Most of the time you only get the doom and gloom on PPRuNe and its because the people who post are the ones that have been in your situation and have been unlucky (I have no idea about the other two posters above me and it is in no way meant as offensive towards them)
Don't let anyone other than the Chief Pilot of the Airline you're applying to tell you that you are too old.
Don't let your licence lapse, if anything it shows lack of commitment. OK, maybe you can't afford it, you need to then dig out that credit card or sell whatever you can/work as hard as you can to get the money.
yes keep your license valid Perhaps it is cheaper at a certified simulator. You might meet new People there. Fly skydivers or do bannertowing etc. Just keep in Touch with flying. You might meet airplane owners who needs A safety pilot etc. It is all about making a network/contacts.
My case. It took me 9 years from start of flightschool to land A rh seat in a a 320. I flew 14 different types in general aviation and Beech 1900in the States. Than Fokker 50 in Europe. Now a Capt at a lcc on the 320 in europe at age 37.
Generate options. Start with a valid license......
This thread is a good example for new guys considering their options on what to expect from their future employment aspirations.
I dont want to state the obvious but guys, when you take the plunge, and with all due respect you MUST appreciate what is on the cards when you have finished all your professional training, i.e. yes you will have to keep a medical current, yes you will have to keep your MEP IR current. Of course all this costs money, so you must have a plan in place in order to finance this.
If you accept this fact when you start, it will not come as a surprise. The industry and recruitment trends have always been the same, in terms of peaks and troughs.
Please dont get me wrong, I know how you feel I have been in the groove you are talking about, it is frustrating, but come on guys, it should not come as a surprise.
Another thing, you must appreciate that you and thousands of other pilots are waiting for the right time to 'renew' everything, however, its sometimes not just about having a current licence, it's about standing out from the crowd, which Falck and P-T touch on.
Commitment, persistence and determination and willing to go the extra mile is key, and will pay off in the end.
1:stay current no matter what 2:keep fit & healthy (no medical=no licence) 3:keep networking
I'm a few years looking for a job with no success. Currently working for an airline in ops, but being hindered by my management when flying positions come up as I'm considered very good at what I do. Not giving up though!
I'm determined to get something, network like crazy and keep my skills sharp. Guys n girls, I know the industry isn't in the best shape right now, but if this is REALLY what you want, stay with it.
I don't know who told you £1600 for an IR renewal, but talk to the guys at Airways Flight Training (Exeter) (other professional flight training establishments are available!) and they can sort you out with an IR renewal on their Beech Duchess sim for circa £200 IIRC. But revise first - NDB holds, Procedural approaches, your minima, memory checklists and radio calls, etc.
When I first renewed one year after my IR I hadn't flown and was well rusty... had to retake! Now several years later I am an F/O on a nice big turboprop. Your licences are worth nothing without validation and an airline will overlook you. You have to be in a position to sell yourself!
Also, I mention Airways because they have an AME right next door who can do your Class One renewal for you at the same time! (not simultaneously of course, that would be distracting) ;-)
As others have pointed out networking is this situation is vital. Keep the licence valid because as someone said jobs come up at very short notice. I nearly lost out because of that on one occasion.
Ironically while I've given up on airline aspirations, age, ratings etc. I have never been so well connected, thanks to my current position. I now have an established reputation as a 'good stick' and would garner a number of good references from senior airline Captains and others. Plus my hours have built up nicely.
But I know pilots who turned up their nose at my job. They couldn't see beyond the low pay and dodgy hours. So they stay home watching 'Ice Pilots' or 'X factor' having completely missed the point.
Pay-to-fly wannabes, and their poor parents' re-mortgages, have ruined the industry.
I would say its more the im alright Jack existing experienced Pilots and Union's who have done nothing to stop it that are to blame. They saw it coming, then watched it happen. You cant blame the job hunters for playing the only game they've been dealt. Now the union's and older Pilot's complain about the erosion of salaries and terms and conditions
I really dont need a lesson in employment management and market forces, I can assure you. I didnt sail up the river in a banana boat.
The point I was making was that you want to blame the next generation of Pilot's for the degredation of terms and conditions of Pilot employment rather than those who've allowed it to happen. Pilot's, Balpa, have all sat with their thumbs up their backside's whilst watching Pay to Fly schemes and the likes unfold. The day Pay to Fly hits BA is the day there'll be an uproar. Again, I dont blame the players, I blame the game.
Mike, please don't put all those apostrophes in, it makes it difficult to read you.
If you understand what you say you do, you would understand that pilots and BALPA have no legitimate effect in the market, and so you can't blame them.
This topic has been done to death before, and frankly I can't be bothered. I have had a wonderful career, flown many types, small, medium, and large, still get to have fun in little aeroplanes and big ones, and have never paid for a type rating in my life.
Pay to fly is a terminal cancer in the industry. There will be no outcry. The public want cheaper flights and the industry enables them.
You're far too late with your BA remark. Do you know what is going on?
Before long I will retire and be able to listen to my music sipping my wine looking out over the vineyards.