Getting that first 1000 hours when your country has zero GA
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Getting that first 1000 hours when your country has zero GA
I'm almost afraid to post this because there is so much vitriol towards freshly minted CPL holders. It just seems like everyone in the jets has forgotten that they were once 200odd hour CPL holders looking for that first job.
First off, I'm a 23 year old Singapore, and I got my license from the FAA.
There is virtually zero GA to speak of in Singapore, so being an instructor/bush pilot/banner tow is out of the question.
I have no qualms about grinding my way through the traditional instructor-caravan cargo-regional-major career route, only there really isn't one available to me
Sure there are instructor jobs overseas, but those usually require work visas etc, and most countries put up big road blocks by removing "Pilots" from their list of "Skilled Immigrants".
Singapore has
1. Singapore Airlines - Cadet program is open to citizens, but there seems to be some unspoken lower age limit that only applies to citizens and not Malaysian applicants.
2. Tiger Airways - Currently short of Captains and F/Os who can upgrade quickly.
3. Jetstar Asia - Advanced Cadet program requires 700 hours total time, Ab-initio is another quarter million down the rabbit hole.
The question is where does one even start?
Just wondering if anyone here was in the same boat and has managed to get those first 1000 hours.
First off, I'm a 23 year old Singapore, and I got my license from the FAA.
There is virtually zero GA to speak of in Singapore, so being an instructor/bush pilot/banner tow is out of the question.
I have no qualms about grinding my way through the traditional instructor-caravan cargo-regional-major career route, only there really isn't one available to me
Sure there are instructor jobs overseas, but those usually require work visas etc, and most countries put up big road blocks by removing "Pilots" from their list of "Skilled Immigrants".
Singapore has
1. Singapore Airlines - Cadet program is open to citizens, but there seems to be some unspoken lower age limit that only applies to citizens and not Malaysian applicants.
2. Tiger Airways - Currently short of Captains and F/Os who can upgrade quickly.
3. Jetstar Asia - Advanced Cadet program requires 700 hours total time, Ab-initio is another quarter million down the rabbit hole.
The question is where does one even start?
Just wondering if anyone here was in the same boat and has managed to get those first 1000 hours.
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Just wondering if anyone here was in the same boat
I can only speak about Australia. Flight instructors (not merely pilots) are on the welcomed list and considered a skill immigrant under a 457 visa (no age limit). You can get your licence converted and then add on an instructor rating. Then get a 457 visa and prepared to spend some years instructing and building hours towards your dream pilot job. Good luck.
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When you say "flight instructors and not merely pilots", you mean that one is required to have a flight instructor rating to be on the skilled immigrant list?
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We have a similar problem it seems
We in Nepal have a similar problem since they is not variation to airline job as is in the US. However, the trend has been that the pilot with CPL gets a job as a FO, and the wait can be as long as 5 years. And people have waited, it is hard coz you cannot get a job elsewhere, visa restriction, license conversion, lack of hours.
However, where your FAA license can come handy and you can work as CFI in areas where FAA is being used like in Guam, Israel is one of them, etc. Being a Singaporean, I am sure you'd have not much problem, visa is much easier. But besides this, I am sure you can look into working in Malaysia, since both the countries has some kinda ties. Malaysia does has GA. But a lot of people to build hours do end up in Africa personally and try to get a job to fly the single engines etc.
Also, a private air charter company in singapore that does corporate work etc. should be an option right?
However, where your FAA license can come handy and you can work as CFI in areas where FAA is being used like in Guam, Israel is one of them, etc. Being a Singaporean, I am sure you'd have not much problem, visa is much easier. But besides this, I am sure you can look into working in Malaysia, since both the countries has some kinda ties. Malaysia does has GA. But a lot of people to build hours do end up in Africa personally and try to get a job to fly the single engines etc.
Also, a private air charter company in singapore that does corporate work etc. should be an option right?
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and oh yes
not to dis-hearten you but it seems that if your airline i.e. Jetstar or Tiger or Singapore Air doesnt open up flying jobs then even with 1000 hours getting a job would be difficult in other countries.
hearing and reading that i have done seems like 1000 hours or even 3000 hours dont matter until you have hours on type and are type rated.
hearing and reading that i have done seems like 1000 hours or even 3000 hours dont matter until you have hours on type and are type rated.
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We in Nepal have a similar problem since they is not variation to airline job as is in the US. However, the trend has been that the pilot with CPL gets a job as a FO, and the wait can be as long as 5 years. And people have waited, it is hard coz you cannot get a job elsewhere, visa restriction, license conversion, lack of hours.
However, where your FAA license can come handy and you can work as CFI in areas where FAA is being used like in Guam, Israel is one of them, etc. Being a Singaporean, I am sure you'd have not much problem, visa is much easier. But besides this, I am sure you can look into working in Malaysia, since both the countries has some kinda ties. Malaysia does has GA. But a lot of people to build hours do end up in Africa personally and try to get a job to fly the single engines etc.
Also, a private air charter company in singapore that does corporate work etc. should be an option right?
However, where your FAA license can come handy and you can work as CFI in areas where FAA is being used like in Guam, Israel is one of them, etc. Being a Singaporean, I am sure you'd have not much problem, visa is much easier. But besides this, I am sure you can look into working in Malaysia, since both the countries has some kinda ties. Malaysia does has GA. But a lot of people to build hours do end up in Africa personally and try to get a job to fly the single engines etc.
Also, a private air charter company in singapore that does corporate work etc. should be an option right?
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Some countries are looking for flight instructors and will give visas. I saw recent postings in Bali and Korea. Otherwise you could try marrying a girl from a country with GA and move there!
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most countries ask minimum experience before to issue a work visa.with 200h and a cpl, forget about it.
-copilot: 500h or more on their jet.
-flight instructors: 500-1000 dual, 1500h-2000h total.
-captains: 3000h on type,last flight in the last 3 months.
the problem is not how to reach the minimum, the problem is that there is no job. even with these minimum, it' s not guaranteed, you got a job.
there is simply not enough jobs for the hundred of thousand pilots hanging around!
aviation is finished, it 's over, it's a dead market. if you want make money, and get a life, do something else, get a marketing degree, or business degree,....
Aviation is for egocentric dreamers of 22 yo boy who stay at mom' house collecting unemployment benefits.you will finish dead and dry, on the side walk.
-copilot: 500h or more on their jet.
-flight instructors: 500-1000 dual, 1500h-2000h total.
-captains: 3000h on type,last flight in the last 3 months.
the problem is not how to reach the minimum, the problem is that there is no job. even with these minimum, it' s not guaranteed, you got a job.
there is simply not enough jobs for the hundred of thousand pilots hanging around!
aviation is finished, it 's over, it's a dead market. if you want make money, and get a life, do something else, get a marketing degree, or business degree,....
Aviation is for egocentric dreamers of 22 yo boy who stay at mom' house collecting unemployment benefits.you will finish dead and dry, on the side walk.
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troll somewhere else superstorm. Nothing you've ever posted on these boards has ever proven remotely useful.
Back to topic... is there a real demand for low-experienced flight and ground instructors in Australia?
Any Aussie could please confirm about this?
Thanks / Pablo
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Back to topic... is there a real demand for low-experienced flight and ground instructors in Australia?
Any Aussie could please confirm about this?
Any Aussie could please confirm about this?
aviation is finished, it 's over, it's a dead market. if you want make money, and get a life, do something else, get a marketing degree, or business degree,....
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it' s normal to be treated of a troll. no one like to hear the truth, especially when I see all these wanabes pilots who have spent a fortune and who probably will never fly after their commercial license.
There is no way to build time nowadays. Years ago, it was possible, africa, bush, USA as a flight instructor, tow banners, discovery flights over Grand Canyon,... Visa was not easy to get, but it was possible.
after doing time building, we joined regionals, aircharters, turboprop or light jet operators...
60-70 years ago, we were hired on the spot at our aviation club with a PPL.
Now you have to go all they way, and be insulted at the end by morons in the HR. I am totally disgusted by this aviation market.
many 20 yo boys with no job, and no opportunities.Not only in the aviation, it s everywhere, any sectors...
don't loose hope, keep your dream, don't put all your money in this aviation ****. avoid scams like P2F, and jobs where you work for free.Stay proud of this noble profession, don't settle down for these suckers! make them spit their money!show me the money! agree?
There is no way to build time nowadays. Years ago, it was possible, africa, bush, USA as a flight instructor, tow banners, discovery flights over Grand Canyon,... Visa was not easy to get, but it was possible.
after doing time building, we joined regionals, aircharters, turboprop or light jet operators...
60-70 years ago, we were hired on the spot at our aviation club with a PPL.
Now you have to go all they way, and be insulted at the end by morons in the HR. I am totally disgusted by this aviation market.
many 20 yo boys with no job, and no opportunities.Not only in the aviation, it s everywhere, any sectors...
don't loose hope, keep your dream, don't put all your money in this aviation ****. avoid scams like P2F, and jobs where you work for free.Stay proud of this noble profession, don't settle down for these suckers! make them spit their money!show me the money! agree?
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superstorm is right...
the job thing is bad every where, the aviation sector being hurt pretty bad, the hour building is not as easy. Out here (my place) pilots are well respected, but suddenly, better loan systems, the phillipines had brought in a lot of pilots and even in india and other countries have a lot of newbies (the 20 yo dudes). Though the simple rule going on right now is supply is more then demand.
My country, the trend has completely been destroyed by this, earlier it was airline coming to hire even before you came back with a license from another country and now its all the way around. You pay for your own TR and then work for free and no hope of logging more then 200-500 hours. Turns out the money spent on TR, the interest on it is less then your salary, so you end up losing money.
Well, since your an CFI, i guess you can help people who have FAA license in ur region to keep it current by doing BFR, IPC etc. All you would need would be an aircraft and a proper license to fly it.
My country, the trend has completely been destroyed by this, earlier it was airline coming to hire even before you came back with a license from another country and now its all the way around. You pay for your own TR and then work for free and no hope of logging more then 200-500 hours. Turns out the money spent on TR, the interest on it is less then your salary, so you end up losing money.
Well, since your an CFI, i guess you can help people who have FAA license in ur region to keep it current by doing BFR, IPC etc. All you would need would be an aircraft and a proper license to fly it.
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Van Gough,
Quote..
"Nope. Absolutely not. There are literally thousands of unemployed instructors in Australia. Some of the big schools are laying off senior (experienced) instructors".
Crap!
Where did you get that info from?
The aviation scene in Australia is picking up, check the weekly afap website.
Australia has escaped the recession and doesn't have the current economic problems as Europe and USA.
Anyone here that's a grade 1 or 2 is virtually always in demand and employed, there are only 800 to 1000 Grade 3 Instructors in the country.
A person has got to have the local CASA licenses and have the right to live and work in Australia!
Quote..
"Nope. Absolutely not. There are literally thousands of unemployed instructors in Australia. Some of the big schools are laying off senior (experienced) instructors".
Crap!
Where did you get that info from?
The aviation scene in Australia is picking up, check the weekly afap website.
Australia has escaped the recession and doesn't have the current economic problems as Europe and USA.
Anyone here that's a grade 1 or 2 is virtually always in demand and employed, there are only 800 to 1000 Grade 3 Instructors in the country.
A person has got to have the local CASA licenses and have the right to live and work in Australia!
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How about the Caravan style operations in Indonesia. You have the advantage of speaking a mutually intelligible language, and are in no worse position than the rest of the expats working there. Not ideal, but at least you get hours and experience.
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I assume you mean susi air?
They have a 1000 hour minimum TT requirement iirc.
And I do not speak Bahasa Indonesia. Singapore's national language is English.
They have a 1000 hour minimum TT requirement iirc.
And I do not speak Bahasa Indonesia. Singapore's national language is English.
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aviation is finished, it 's over, it's a dead market. if you want make money, and get a life, do something else, get a marketing degree, or business degree,....
no opportunities.Not only in the aviation, it s everywhere, any sectors...
don't loose hope, keep your dream, don't put all your money in this aviation ****
60-70 years ago, we were hired on the spot at our aviation club with a PPL
The good news for others looking for a job is that some of the people you are competing against for a job are just like this clown. The more of them there are the better, attitudes like this will not get far.
If I was looking for a job I would actually feel much more confident knowing some of the people I was up against had this sort of "it's not fair, the world owes me a job" attitude. My employer looks for "professional" attitudes, and this certainly isn't it.
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Windypops,
I think you should 'rephrase'... there are too many clowns willing to work for nothing or even pay to work, and unfortunately those guys usually get further than other decent, hard working guys.
I don't know what's your situation, but maybe next time you need to look for a job, the company you join asks you to pay for your captain upgrade, or your present company will try to undercut your deal because there's a bunch of guys willing to work for 1/2 of what you earn.
I would love to see if you would still keep your 'can do' 'go getter' 'positive' attitude.
I think you should 'rephrase'... there are too many clowns willing to work for nothing or even pay to work, and unfortunately those guys usually get further than other decent, hard working guys.
I don't know what's your situation, but maybe next time you need to look for a job, the company you join asks you to pay for your captain upgrade, or your present company will try to undercut your deal because there's a bunch of guys willing to work for 1/2 of what you earn.
I would love to see if you would still keep your 'can do' 'go getter' 'positive' attitude.
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Originally Posted by mynameisjon
I assume you mean susi air?
They have a 1000 hour minimum TT requirement iirc.
And I do not speak Bahasa Indonesia. Singapore's national language is English.
They have a 1000 hour minimum TT requirement iirc.
And I do not speak Bahasa Indonesia. Singapore's national language is English.
widely spoken language is English
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Wow, so many posts since I last logged in ...
Yes. As I said, apply for a student visa for Oz. You'd have to convert your licence to CASA first and then get an instructor's rating here in Oz. It is true you need sponsorship from a flight school but these do exist. Preferably learn your FI rating at a flight school who is willing to sponsor you afterwards. When that happens, apply for a 457 visa and work there to build your hours. (Basically you could even acquire permanent Oz PR if you work in Oz for 2 out of the 4 years under 457.)
If you have the equivalent of FI, MEI and MEII, then you'd open a lot of opportunities in other countries.
you mean that one is required to have a flight instructor rating to be on the skilled immigrant list
If you have the equivalent of FI, MEI and MEII, then you'd open a lot of opportunities in other countries.