Blue on Blue.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hostage to geographical fortune.
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blue on Blue.
Blue on Blue, it's the Sun wot's got the video. There's a click to play link.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007060133,00.html
Confusion, then contrition. Truly sad, the fog of war. Equally unfortunate is the US cover-up.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007060133,00.html
Confusion, then contrition. Truly sad, the fog of war. Equally unfortunate is the US cover-up.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Listening to the news this morning it seems like the US want to have someone in court over this leak.
My hat goes off to the brave soul who leaked it but I fear a room at Gitmo may be currently be being prepared for their arrival.
My hat goes off to the brave soul who leaked it but I fear a room at Gitmo may be currently be being prepared for their arrival.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If what is in the video is true (not dubbed over etc) then as a British citizen I am deeply shocked at such actions. I cannot comment of the "fog of war" but to me just the tone of the conversation should see those pilots get the book thrown at them.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: -
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Orange missiles".....
"Goggles" used only after 1st straffe, but to no effect...
Happened in the Gulf War, now the Iraq War, is Afghanistan next? What does it take to stop this s***?
PS Unless you're Canadian, in which case it already has happened in A'stan.
"Goggles" used only after 1st straffe, but to no effect...
Happened in the Gulf War, now the Iraq War, is Afghanistan next? What does it take to stop this s***?
PS Unless you're Canadian, in which case it already has happened in A'stan.
Last edited by rab-k; 6th Feb 2007 at 08:47. Reason: add ps
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK, sometimes!
Age: 74
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The pilots asked several times if there were any friendlies in the area and c/s "Manilla Hotel" (a control unit) came back, almost sounded like he had put no thought into his reply, saying that there were no friendlies in the area. The pilots even tried describing what they were seeing and he instantly replied, almost cutting them off, with "Yeah, that matches our intel".
However, the pilots should have held off or at worst done a no-guns run to check out whether the orange they saw on the vehicles were friendly ID markings or, as one was convinced, orange rocket launchers. There was some confusion between them about what it was they were seeing, they discussed the orange panels for some time and then seemed to talk themselves into the fact that they were seeing orange rockets. "I think killing then damn rocket launchers would be great!" After each of the first 2 strafing runs they even seemed to question what they were seeing "That's what you think they are, right?", in a very questioning tone of voice both times.
It was very sobering to hear their remorse after the event, though I am not sure, listening to their words, if the remorse was for what they had done or what they expected was going to happen to them as a result!
"Got to go home dude" - "Yeah I know, were fuc#ed!"
and
"We're in jail dude".
Sad chain of events
MadMark!!!
However, the pilots should have held off or at worst done a no-guns run to check out whether the orange they saw on the vehicles were friendly ID markings or, as one was convinced, orange rocket launchers. There was some confusion between them about what it was they were seeing, they discussed the orange panels for some time and then seemed to talk themselves into the fact that they were seeing orange rockets. "I think killing then damn rocket launchers would be great!" After each of the first 2 strafing runs they even seemed to question what they were seeing "That's what you think they are, right?", in a very questioning tone of voice both times.
It was very sobering to hear their remorse after the event, though I am not sure, listening to their words, if the remorse was for what they had done or what they expected was going to happen to them as a result!
"Got to go home dude" - "Yeah I know, were fuc#ed!"
and
"We're in jail dude".
Sad chain of events
MadMark!!!
Last edited by Mad_Mark; 6th Feb 2007 at 09:07.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reading the BBC news story relating to this it is disturbing to read that America has tried to claim that the video is classified.....
Where's our resident former A-10 pilot MajorMadMax I wonder?
Where's our resident former A-10 pilot MajorMadMax I wonder?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Umm, where did I put the Garmin?
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Transcript starts:
1336.30 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV from MANILA HOTEL. Can you confirm you engaged that tube and those vehicles?
1336.36 POPOV35:
Affirm Sir. Looks like I’ve got multiple vehicles in reverts at about 800 metres to the north of your arty rounds. Can you switch fire, and shift fire, and get some arty rounds on those?
1336.47 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger, I understand that those are the impacts you observed earlier on my timing?
1336.51 POPOV35:
Affirmative.
1336.52 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger, standby. Let me make sure they’re not on another mission.
1336.57 POPOV36:
Hey, I got a four ship. Looks like we got orange panels on them though. Do we have any friendlies up in this area?
1337.03 MANILA HOTEL:
I understand that was north 800 metres.
1337.12 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV, understand that was north 800 metres?
1337.16 POPOV35:
Confirm, north 800 metres. Confirm there are no friendlies this far north on the ground.
1337.21 MANILA HOTEL:
That is an affirm. You are well clear of friendlies.
1337.25 POPOV35:
Copy. I see multiple riveted vehicles. Some look like flatbed trucks and others are green vehicles. Can’t quite make out the type. Look like may be ZIL157s (Russian made trucks used by Iraqi army).
1337.36 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger. That matches our Intel up there. And understand you also have the other fixed wing up this push? For terminal control, if you can.
1337.44 POPOV35:
I’d love to. I didn’t talk to him yet.
1336.30 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV from MANILA HOTEL. Can you confirm you engaged that tube and those vehicles?
1336.36 POPOV35:
Affirm Sir. Looks like I’ve got multiple vehicles in reverts at about 800 metres to the north of your arty rounds. Can you switch fire, and shift fire, and get some arty rounds on those?
1336.47 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger, I understand that those are the impacts you observed earlier on my timing?
1336.51 POPOV35:
Affirmative.
1336.52 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger, standby. Let me make sure they’re not on another mission.
1336.57 POPOV36:
Hey, I got a four ship. Looks like we got orange panels on them though. Do we have any friendlies up in this area?
1337.03 MANILA HOTEL:
I understand that was north 800 metres.
1337.12 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV, understand that was north 800 metres?
1337.16 POPOV35:
Confirm, north 800 metres. Confirm there are no friendlies this far north on the ground.
1337.21 MANILA HOTEL:
That is an affirm. You are well clear of friendlies.
1337.25 POPOV35:
Copy. I see multiple riveted vehicles. Some look like flatbed trucks and others are green vehicles. Can’t quite make out the type. Look like may be ZIL157s (Russian made trucks used by Iraqi army).
1337.36 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger. That matches our Intel up there. And understand you also have the other fixed wing up this push? For terminal control, if you can.
1337.44 POPOV35:
I’d love to. I didn’t talk to him yet.
1337.46 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger, I believe CASPER is up this push too. Two Super Tomcats.
1337.54 POPOV35:
Hey dude.
1337.56 POPOV36:
I got a four ship of vehicles that are evenly spaced along a road going north.
Roger, I believe CASPER is up this push too. Two Super Tomcats.
1337.54 POPOV35:
Hey dude.
1337.56 POPOV36:
I got a four ship of vehicles that are evenly spaced along a road going north.
1338.04 POPOV36:
Look down at your right, 2 o’clock, at 10 o’clock low, there is a, left 10 o’clock low, look down there north along that canal, right there. Coming up just south of the village.
1338.21 POPOV35:
Evenly spaced? Where we strafed?
1338.23 POPOV36:
No. No. Further east, further west, right now. And there’s four or five of them right now heading up there.
1338.29 POPOV35:
No, I don’t have you visual.
1338.30 POPOV36:
I’m back at your 6 – no factor.
1338.31 POPOV35:
OK, now where’s this canal?
1338.35 POPOV35:
Don’t hit those F18s that are out there.
1338.38 POPOV36:
OK. Right underneath you. Right now, there’s a canal that runs north/south. There’s a small village, and there are vehicles that are spaced evenly there.
1338.49 POPOV36:
They look like they have orange panels on though.
1338.51 POPOV35:
He told me, he told me there’s nobody north of here.
Look down at your right, 2 o’clock, at 10 o’clock low, there is a, left 10 o’clock low, look down there north along that canal, right there. Coming up just south of the village.
1338.21 POPOV35:
Evenly spaced? Where we strafed?
1338.23 POPOV36:
No. No. Further east, further west, right now. And there’s four or five of them right now heading up there.
1338.29 POPOV35:
No, I don’t have you visual.
1338.30 POPOV36:
I’m back at your 6 – no factor.
1338.31 POPOV35:
OK, now where’s this canal?
1338.35 POPOV35:
Don’t hit those F18s that are out there.
1338.38 POPOV36:
OK. Right underneath you. Right now, there’s a canal that runs north/south. There’s a small village, and there are vehicles that are spaced evenly there.
1338.49 POPOV36:
They look like they have orange panels on though.
1338.51 POPOV35:
He told me, he told me there’s nobody north of here.
1338.52 POPOV36:
I know. There, right on the river.
1338.53 POPOV35:
I see vehicles though, might be our original dudes.
1339.09 POPOV36:
They’ve got something orange on top of them.
1339.10 POPOV35:
POPOV for MANILA 3, is MANILA 34 in this area?
I know. There, right on the river.
1338.53 POPOV35:
I see vehicles though, might be our original dudes.
1339.09 POPOV36:
They’ve got something orange on top of them.
1339.10 POPOV35:
POPOV for MANILA 3, is MANILA 34 in this area?
1339.14 MANILA HOTEL:
Say again?
1339.15 POPOV35:
MANILA HOTEL, is MANILA 34 in this area?
1339.19 MANILA HOTEL:
Negative. Understand they are well clear of that now.
1339.23 POPOV35:
OK, copy. Like I said, multiple riveted vehicles. They look like flatbed trucks. Are those your targets?
1339.30 MANILA HOTEL:
That’s affirm.
1339.31 POPOV35:
OK.
1339.34 POPOV36:
Let me ask you one question.
1339.35 POPOV35:
What’s that?
1339.45 POPO36:
(to MANILA HOTEL) Hey, tell me what type of rocket launchers you got up here?
1339.50 POPOV36:
I think they’re rocket launchers.
1339.52 MANILA HOTEL:
. . . (garbled) You were stepped on, say again.
1339.54 POPOV35:
MANILA HOTEL, fire your arty (artillery) up that 800 metres north, and see how we do.
1340.01 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger, standby for shot. They are getting adjustments to the guns now.
1340.34 POPOV35:
Copy.
Say again?
1339.15 POPOV35:
MANILA HOTEL, is MANILA 34 in this area?
1339.19 MANILA HOTEL:
Negative. Understand they are well clear of that now.
1339.23 POPOV35:
OK, copy. Like I said, multiple riveted vehicles. They look like flatbed trucks. Are those your targets?
1339.30 MANILA HOTEL:
That’s affirm.
1339.31 POPOV35:
OK.
1339.34 POPOV36:
Let me ask you one question.
1339.35 POPOV35:
What’s that?
1339.45 POPO36:
(to MANILA HOTEL) Hey, tell me what type of rocket launchers you got up here?
1339.50 POPOV36:
I think they’re rocket launchers.
1339.52 MANILA HOTEL:
. . . (garbled) You were stepped on, say again.
1339.54 POPOV35:
MANILA HOTEL, fire your arty (artillery) up that 800 metres north, and see how we do.
1340.01 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger, standby for shot. They are getting adjustments to the guns now.
1340.34 POPOV35:
Copy.
1340.09 POPOV36:Roll up your right wing and look right underneath you.
1340.12 POPOV35:
(angry) I know what you’re talking about.
1340.13 POPOV36:
OK, well they got orange rockets on them.
1340.17 POPOV35:
Orange rockets?
1340.17 POPOV36:
Yeah, I think so.
1340.18 POPOV35:
Let me look.
1340.26 POPOV35:
We need to think about getting home.
1340.29 POPOV36:
3.6 is what it says (a fuel measurement).
1340.31 POPOV35:
Yeah, I know. I’m talking time wise.
1340.35 POPOV36:
I think killing these damn rocket launchers, it would be great.
(The tape then becomes garbled)
1340.52 MANILA HOTEL:
Yeah, POPOV36, MANILA HOTEL. I’ve got other aircraft up this push. Not sure they’re coming to me. Someone else might be working this freak.
1341.00 POPOV35:
Yeah, MANILA34 is working them, break, break.
1340.12 POPOV36:
Yeah, I see that, you see I’m going to roll down.
1340.15 MANILA 34:
Break, be advised MANILA34 is not working the F18s unless they are trying to check in with me, over.
1341.21 POPOV35:
Copy.
1341.24 POPOV36:
OK, do you see the orange things on top of them?
1341.32 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL. Are you able to switch to Crimson?
1341.37 POPOV36:
POPOV 36 is rolling in.
1341.40 MANILA HOTEL:
Tell you what.
1341.41 POPOV35:
I’m coming off west. You roll in. It looks like they are exactly what we’re talking about.
1341.49 POPOV36:
We got visual.
1341.50 POPOV36:
OK. I want to get that first one before he gets into town then.
1341.53 POPOV35:
Get him – get him.
1341.55 POPOV36:
All right, we got rocket launchers, it looks like. Number 2 is rolling in from the south to the north, and 2’s in.
1342.04 POPOV35:
Get it.
(Sun commment
POPOV36, “rolls in” for an attack and turns his A-10 into a vertical dive to strafe the British column, destroying two Scimitar armoured vehicles and killing L/Cpl of Horse Matty Hull.)
1342.09 - GUNFIRE -
1340.12 POPOV35:
(angry) I know what you’re talking about.
1340.13 POPOV36:
OK, well they got orange rockets on them.
1340.17 POPOV35:
Orange rockets?
1340.17 POPOV36:
Yeah, I think so.
1340.18 POPOV35:
Let me look.
1340.26 POPOV35:
We need to think about getting home.
1340.29 POPOV36:
3.6 is what it says (a fuel measurement).
1340.31 POPOV35:
Yeah, I know. I’m talking time wise.
1340.35 POPOV36:
I think killing these damn rocket launchers, it would be great.
(The tape then becomes garbled)
1340.52 MANILA HOTEL:
Yeah, POPOV36, MANILA HOTEL. I’ve got other aircraft up this push. Not sure they’re coming to me. Someone else might be working this freak.
1341.00 POPOV35:
Yeah, MANILA34 is working them, break, break.
1340.12 POPOV36:
Yeah, I see that, you see I’m going to roll down.
1340.15 MANILA 34:
Break, be advised MANILA34 is not working the F18s unless they are trying to check in with me, over.
1341.21 POPOV35:
Copy.
1341.24 POPOV36:
OK, do you see the orange things on top of them?
1341.32 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL. Are you able to switch to Crimson?
1341.37 POPOV36:
POPOV 36 is rolling in.
1341.40 MANILA HOTEL:
Tell you what.
1341.41 POPOV35:
I’m coming off west. You roll in. It looks like they are exactly what we’re talking about.
1341.49 POPOV36:
We got visual.
1341.50 POPOV36:
OK. I want to get that first one before he gets into town then.
1341.53 POPOV35:
Get him – get him.
1341.55 POPOV36:
All right, we got rocket launchers, it looks like. Number 2 is rolling in from the south to the north, and 2’s in.
1342.04 POPOV35:
Get it.
(Sun commment
POPOV36, “rolls in” for an attack and turns his A-10 into a vertical dive to strafe the British column, destroying two Scimitar armoured vehicles and killing L/Cpl of Horse Matty Hull.)1342.09 - GUNFIRE -
1342.18 POPOV35:
I’m off your west.
1342.22 POPOV35:
Good hits.
1342.29 POPOV36:
Got a visual.
1342.30 POPOV35:
I got a visual. You’re at your high 10.
1342.31 POPOV36:
Gotcha.
1342.30 POPOV36:
That’s what you think they are, right?
1342.39 POPOV35:
It looks like it to me, and I got my goggles on them now.
1342.59 POPOV35:
OK, I’m looking at getting down low at this.
1343.13 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL, guns . . .
1343.17 MANILA HOTEL:
To engage those targets in the revetts (slopes).
I’m off your west.
1342.22 POPOV35:
Good hits.
1342.29 POPOV36:
Got a visual.
1342.30 POPOV35:
I got a visual. You’re at your high 10.
1342.31 POPOV36:
Gotcha.
1342.30 POPOV36:
That’s what you think they are, right?
1342.39 POPOV35:
It looks like it to me, and I got my goggles on them now.
1342.59 POPOV35:
OK, I’m looking at getting down low at this.
1343.13 MANILA HOTEL:
POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL, guns . . .
1343.17 MANILA HOTEL:
To engage those targets in the revetts (slopes).
1343.24 POPOV36:
It looks like he is hauling ass. Ha ha. Is that what you think they are?
1343.34 POPOV36:
1–2
1343.35 POPOV35:
It doesn’t look friendly.
1343.38 POPOV36:
OK, I’m in again from the south.
1343.40 POPOV35:
Ok.
1343.47 - GUNFIRE -
1343.54 LIGHTNING 34:
POPOV 34, LIGHTNING 34.
1344.09 POPOV35:
POPOV 35, LIGHTNING 34 GO.
1344.12 LIGHTNING 34:
Roger, POPOV. Be advised that in the 3122 and 3222 group box you have friendly armour in the area. Yellow, small armoured tanks. Just be advised.
1344.16 POPOV35:
Ahh s***.
1344.19 P0POV35:
Got a — got a smoke.
1344.21 LIGHTNING 34:
Hey, POPOV34, abort your mission. You got a, looks we might have a blue on blue situation.
1344.25 POPOV35:
F***. God bless it.
1344.29 POPOV35:
POPOV 34.
1344.35 POPOV35:
F***, f***, f***.
1344.36 MANILA 34:
POPOV34, this is MANILA 34. Did you copy my last, over?
1344.39 POPOV35:
I did.
1344.47 POPOV35:
Confirm those are friendlies on that side of the canal.
1344.51 POPOV35:
S***.
1344.58 MANILA 34:
Standby POPOV.
1345.04 POPOV36:
God dammit.
1344.14 MANILA HOTEL:
Hey POPOV 36, from MANILA HOTEL.
1344.25 MANILA 34:
OK POPOV. Just west of the 3-4 easting. On the berm up there, the 3422 area is where we have our friendlies, over.
1344.39 POPOV35:
All right, POPOV 35 has smoke. Let me know how those friendlies are right now, please.
1344.45 MANILA 34:
Roger, standby.
1344.49 POPOV35:
Gotta go home dude.
1344.50 POPOV36:
Yeah, I know. We’re f***ed.
1345.54 POPOV35:
S***.
1346.01 POPOV36:
As you cross the circle, you are 3 o’clock low.
1346.03 POPOV35:
Roger.
1346.12 POPOV35:
POPOV 35 is Bingo. Let us know what’s happening.
13446.15 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger. We are getting that information for you right now. Standby.
1346.20 POPOV36:
F***.
1346.47 MANILA 34:
POPOV, this is MANILA 34 over.
1346.51 POPOV35:
Go.
1346.55 MANILA 34:
POPOV 4, MANILA 34 over.
1347.01 POPOV35:
Go.
1347.02 MANILA 34:
We are getting an initial brief that there was one killed and one wounded, over.
1347.09 POPOV35:
Copy. RTB (return to base).
1347.18 POPOV35:
I’m going to be sick.
1347.24 POPOV36:
Ah f***.
1347.48 POPOV35:
Did you hear?
1347.51 POPOV36:
Yeah, this sucks.
1347.52 POPOV35:
We’re in jail dude.
1347.59 POPOV36:
Aaaahhhh.
1348.12 SKY CHIEF:
MANILA this is SKY CHIEF over.
1348.18 MANILA34:
This is MANILA 34, send SKY CHIEF.
1348.22 COSTA58:
SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.25 MANILA HOTEL:
SKY CHIEF, this is MANILA HOTEL.
1348.30 COSTA58:
SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.41 SKY CHIEF:
Relaying for TWINACT, the A-10s are running against friendlies.
1348.47 COSTA58:
POPOV 35, this is COSTA58. Relaying message for TWINACT. Abort, abort.
1348.54 SKY CHIEF:
MANILA how copy A-10s are running against friendlies. Abort. Over.
1349.07 COSTA58:
From TWINACT, abort, abort.
1349. 11 POPOV35:
POPOV 35 aborting.
1349.14 COSTA58:
We will relay that back to TWINACT.
1349.18 POPOV36:
F***. God f***ing s***.
1350.21 POPOV36:
Dammit. F***ing damn it.
1351.17 P0POV36:
God dammit. F*** me dead (weeping).
1351.25 POPOV35:
You with me?
1351.27 POPOV36:
Yeah.
1351.30 POPOV35:
They did say there were no friendlies.
1351.33 POPOV36:
Yeah, I know that thing with the orange panels is going to screw us. They look like orange rockets on top.
1351.48 POPOV35:
Your tape still on?
1351.49 POPOV36:
Yeah.
1351.54 POPOV35:
Mine is end of tape.
Transcript ends
It looks like he is hauling ass. Ha ha. Is that what you think they are?
1343.34 POPOV36:
1–2
1343.35 POPOV35:
It doesn’t look friendly.
1343.38 POPOV36:
OK, I’m in again from the south.
1343.40 POPOV35:
Ok.
1343.47 - GUNFIRE -
1343.54 LIGHTNING 34:
POPOV 34, LIGHTNING 34.
1344.09 POPOV35:
POPOV 35, LIGHTNING 34 GO.
1344.12 LIGHTNING 34:
Roger, POPOV. Be advised that in the 3122 and 3222 group box you have friendly armour in the area. Yellow, small armoured tanks. Just be advised.
1344.16 POPOV35:
Ahh s***.
1344.19 P0POV35:
Got a — got a smoke.
1344.21 LIGHTNING 34:
Hey, POPOV34, abort your mission. You got a, looks we might have a blue on blue situation.
1344.25 POPOV35:
F***. God bless it.
1344.29 POPOV35:
POPOV 34.
1344.35 POPOV35:
F***, f***, f***.
1344.36 MANILA 34:
POPOV34, this is MANILA 34. Did you copy my last, over?
1344.39 POPOV35:
I did.
1344.47 POPOV35:
Confirm those are friendlies on that side of the canal.
1344.51 POPOV35:
S***.
1344.58 MANILA 34:
Standby POPOV.
1345.04 POPOV36:
God dammit.
1344.14 MANILA HOTEL:
Hey POPOV 36, from MANILA HOTEL.
1344.25 MANILA 34:
OK POPOV. Just west of the 3-4 easting. On the berm up there, the 3422 area is where we have our friendlies, over.
1344.39 POPOV35:
All right, POPOV 35 has smoke. Let me know how those friendlies are right now, please.
1344.45 MANILA 34:
Roger, standby.
1344.49 POPOV35:
Gotta go home dude.
1344.50 POPOV36:
Yeah, I know. We’re f***ed.
1345.54 POPOV35:
S***.
1346.01 POPOV36:
As you cross the circle, you are 3 o’clock low.
1346.03 POPOV35:
Roger.
1346.12 POPOV35:
POPOV 35 is Bingo. Let us know what’s happening.
13446.15 MANILA HOTEL:
Roger. We are getting that information for you right now. Standby.
1346.20 POPOV36:
F***.
1346.47 MANILA 34:
POPOV, this is MANILA 34 over.
1346.51 POPOV35:
Go.
1346.55 MANILA 34:
POPOV 4, MANILA 34 over.
1347.01 POPOV35:
Go.
1347.02 MANILA 34:
We are getting an initial brief that there was one killed and one wounded, over.
1347.09 POPOV35:
Copy. RTB (return to base).
1347.18 POPOV35:
I’m going to be sick.
1347.24 POPOV36:
Ah f***.
1347.48 POPOV35:
Did you hear?
1347.51 POPOV36:
Yeah, this sucks.
1347.52 POPOV35:
We’re in jail dude.
1347.59 POPOV36:
Aaaahhhh.
1348.12 SKY CHIEF:
MANILA this is SKY CHIEF over.
1348.18 MANILA34:
This is MANILA 34, send SKY CHIEF.
1348.22 COSTA58:
SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.25 MANILA HOTEL:
SKY CHIEF, this is MANILA HOTEL.
1348.30 COSTA58:
SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.41 SKY CHIEF:
Relaying for TWINACT, the A-10s are running against friendlies.
1348.47 COSTA58:
POPOV 35, this is COSTA58. Relaying message for TWINACT. Abort, abort.
1348.54 SKY CHIEF:
MANILA how copy A-10s are running against friendlies. Abort. Over.
1349.07 COSTA58:
From TWINACT, abort, abort.
1349. 11 POPOV35:
POPOV 35 aborting.
1349.14 COSTA58:
We will relay that back to TWINACT.
1349.18 POPOV36:
F***. God f***ing s***.
1350.21 POPOV36:
Dammit. F***ing damn it.
1351.17 P0POV36:
God dammit. F*** me dead (weeping).
1351.25 POPOV35:
You with me?
1351.27 POPOV36:
Yeah.
1351.30 POPOV35:
They did say there were no friendlies.
1351.33 POPOV36:
Yeah, I know that thing with the orange panels is going to screw us. They look like orange rockets on top.
1351.48 POPOV35:
Your tape still on?
1351.49 POPOV36:
Yeah.
1351.54 POPOV35:
Mine is end of tape.
Transcript ends
I won't blame them for this- MH is ID'ing something else clearly- and that's what they think they're looking at - but I do think this could've been avoided.
Last edited by Rakshasa; 6th Feb 2007 at 09:26.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is anyone else as astonished as I by the lack of radio discipline shown in this transcript? Parts of it sound more like kids on their mobile phones talking about some video game than professional military pilots.
I am genuinely shocked.
I am genuinely shocked.
Web Pilot,
unfortunatley R/T discipline is not high on the list of priorities in this situation - good comms is vital and plain speaking often works. If you have never been in that situation you wouldn't understand.
However, Rule 1. If there is any doubt don't drop/fire.
Rule 2. Don't break rule 1.
Very sad for all.
Ivor
unfortunatley R/T discipline is not high on the list of priorities in this situation - good comms is vital and plain speaking often works. If you have never been in that situation you wouldn't understand.
However, Rule 1. If there is any doubt don't drop/fire.
Rule 2. Don't break rule 1.
Very sad for all.
Ivor
WP
They're talking on their discrete intraflight frequency, as well as on the UHF/VHF. The more conversational stuff is on the discrete freq and I would expect it to flow the way it does. I don't think that shows a lack of professionalism.
I do think that shooting the gun having already established doubt about the ID of the targets is inexcusable.
I also wonder why they weren’t getting the GFAC to squirt his target with a laser so that they could cue their Litening or Pave Penny spot trackers onto them for confirmation.
I think that one of the most interesting (telling?) comments is right at the start, when the flight lead suggests they get a move on because of time. Were they running out of time in the kill box? Did this cause them to rush? I think that now would be a very good time for the USAF to present its own findings before people (and I am guilty of this) start picking the VTRS tape apart and drawing their own conclusions.
They're talking on their discrete intraflight frequency, as well as on the UHF/VHF. The more conversational stuff is on the discrete freq and I would expect it to flow the way it does. I don't think that shows a lack of professionalism.
I do think that shooting the gun having already established doubt about the ID of the targets is inexcusable.
I also wonder why they weren’t getting the GFAC to squirt his target with a laser so that they could cue their Litening or Pave Penny spot trackers onto them for confirmation.
I think that one of the most interesting (telling?) comments is right at the start, when the flight lead suggests they get a move on because of time. Were they running out of time in the kill box? Did this cause them to rush? I think that now would be a very good time for the USAF to present its own findings before people (and I am guilty of this) start picking the VTRS tape apart and drawing their own conclusions.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hostage to geographical fortune.
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The pilots are American, when viewed from a British perspective they are foreign and as such have a different culture and lexicon. They don't do banter. The lack of discipline isn't in the RT, it's in opening fire on a target displaying orange with an element of ambiguity as to positive identification entering into the mix. Once again, the cover-up is worse than the crime. Where is the reciprocal extradition treaty when it's needed?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: -
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pardon my ignorance, but did the Iraqi Army regularly take to the field with 'day-glo' "orange rockets" strapped to their vehicles? I thought that such colour schemes were strictly for the test-range and not for actual combat.
My heart also goes out to the mates of the poor sod who died in his vehicle, as not only will they likely suffer PTSD compounded by the circumstances of his death, but given all that 'D-U' flying around, their own eventual deaths might be somewhat more prolonged and agonising.
My heart also goes out to the mates of the poor sod who died in his vehicle, as not only will they likely suffer PTSD compounded by the circumstances of his death, but given all that 'D-U' flying around, their own eventual deaths might be somewhat more prolonged and agonising.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pardon my ignorance, but did the Iraqi Army regularly take to the field with 'day-glo' "orange rockets" strapped to their vehicles?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ivor - these pilots assumed and made a mistake - please don't make mistaken assumptions about my experience!
I realise that much of this is on a discreet waveband, and that the culture of US forces is different to the British culture - and I have worked with US forces so I am not unaware of the style of US talk. cvg2iln makes a good point that the lack of professionalism is in opening fire on a target displaying orange with an element of ambiguity as to positive identification, but I would add that professionalism comes from maintaining good discipline in all areas of operation otherwise mistakes and misunderstandings do occur.
Clearly this incident has a number of factors contributing to it, but ultimately the responsibility lies with the guy pulling the trigger.
I realise that much of this is on a discreet waveband, and that the culture of US forces is different to the British culture - and I have worked with US forces so I am not unaware of the style of US talk. cvg2iln makes a good point that the lack of professionalism is in opening fire on a target displaying orange with an element of ambiguity as to positive identification, but I would add that professionalism comes from maintaining good discipline in all areas of operation otherwise mistakes and misunderstandings do occur.
Clearly this incident has a number of factors contributing to it, but ultimately the responsibility lies with the guy pulling the trigger.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing changes. I was reading an account of a friendly fire attack made upon a group of Royal Navy minesweepers in the English Channel soon after D-Day by the RAF. The controllers advised the RAF leader that there were no friendly ships in their area and the attack was pressed home, despite the minesweepwers firing the correct colours of the day and displaying their ensigns.
As a currently civilian (but formerly military) avionics specialist I'm amazed that there is no electronic identification in use. Accountants run the armed forces as well as the corporations these days, so it seems you military chaps are still using ancient IFF systems. Even though 21st century electronics would make identifying friendly forces very easy, money is saved by not including 'friend' identification into targeting systems. The procurement people don't seem to put much value on preventing you accidentally killing each other.
Incidentally, how would those orange roof panels function in an environment where 'The Coalition' didn't have total air superiority?
As a currently civilian (but formerly military) avionics specialist I'm amazed that there is no electronic identification in use. Accountants run the armed forces as well as the corporations these days, so it seems you military chaps are still using ancient IFF systems. Even though 21st century electronics would make identifying friendly forces very easy, money is saved by not including 'friend' identification into targeting systems. The procurement people don't seem to put much value on preventing you accidentally killing each other.
Incidentally, how would those orange roof panels function in an environment where 'The Coalition' didn't have total air superiority?
WTF