B Sousa

The quote is part of an answer I gave a Wannabee, reflecting what I believe to be the majority view expressed on the forum over the years.
B. Sousa disagrees strongly.

What do others think?

Note: I've split the thread because it became two separate discussions.


Heliport....How could you do this to the poor guy. "freedom of being a professional helicopter pilot."
Thats an all inclusive statement with the following:
1. Low Pay
2. No Retirement
3. Adverse Living Conditions
4. Long Hours
5. Overworked and Abused Aircraft
6. Zero Job Security
7. And the knowledge that if you turn down a mission based on Aircraft Performance/Weather, you will probably be unemployed.

All this after you have spent years to gain the necesssary experience and many thousands of Dollars/Pounds/Rand/ Pesos.

Fire Away

Hope you don't mind Bert. Interesting points being made.
Heliport

Roundagain

If I were you I'd change jobs Bert.

Flare Dammit!

Bert was just being realistic. The "enjoyment and freedom" of being a professional helicopter pilot? Oh please. Yeah, there are some visceral rewards in our "profession," but to say they outweigh the advantages of being a 747 captain for BA is just immature nonsense. I personally know plank drivers who - believe it or not - absolutely LOVE what they do! Imagine that! I dearly wish I'd followed my late father's wishes and not pursued rotorcraft as a career.

We are helicopter pilots because we are underacheivers. We could all likely do better if we wanted to. Aspiring pilots who voluntarily come into our corner of the industry should do it with their eyes open; this still ain't a great career and likely never will be..."enjoyment and freedom" notwithstanding.

SandBlaster-214

Hey,

I can't speak for Bert and Flare and, yes, they may have valid points of view - from their perspectives..., I've worked for some pretty rotten operators and have had similar thoughts from time to time. I have, however been lucky enough to find a great position with a great operator with whom I'm looking forward to finishing out my career.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here Bert but I'm getting:

1. Adequate pay,
2. Retirement,
3. I own my own place and when I'm away from la casa the crew quarters are top of the line, (I even get a company car)
4. Can't do anything about the hours - that's the nature of "the beast", but I do get compensated accordingly,
5. I get to fly fairly new and extremely well maintained aircraft,
6. Job security? Who has job security - anywhere? Be honest?
7. Within reason and actual conditions, no one exceeds either their personal or the aircraft's operational capabilities. In the same context we are expected to operate to our (and aircraft) limits when called upon to do so.

And I've never considered myself to be an underacheiver. I happen to like what I do and I choose to stay in the business (for thirty years now) simply because of that fact. I have managed to acheive a lot in my life - in fact, I've done almost everything that I've wanted to do and have seen almost everything I've wanted to see. What I haven't done or seen, I'll get around to it in the next twenty years. I do not allow my profession to stand in my way.

Several years ago I got this wild hair that I'd like to move into the "big leagues" and I shelled out a few bucks for starched-wing lessons (I was already counting the $300K a year I would be making with FedEx or some of the others). It took all of three hours to figure out that I'd be one unhappy SOB at the end of every day.

Now, please Flare, don't take offense here because I'm not directing this toward you, you have a good point in that; there are quite a few underacheivers in this industry. But, in my opinion, the underacheivers are the pilots who are tired, miserable, pissed-off, hate what they do, hate who they work for, the aircraft they fly, etc..., and do nothing to change that. No where in the "Golden Book of Rotary Wing Aviation" does it state that everything you desire will be handed to you when you walk through the door. Conversely, no where does it state that you are required to stay in a position or with an operator who treats you like applebutter. (I'm a crusty ol' bastard in my old age)

With all of that said, robpowell69, should you choose to chase the dream, best of luck. There are a variety of paths you may choose to follow; offshore, utility, external load, corporate, EMS, electronic news, tours..., - good jobs, not so good jobs. Heck, who says you can't run your own operation? It may take you a while to acheive your goals, but you can have a lot of fun getting there (yeah, yeah..., you may have to eat some crap along the way and it's hard work and sometimes it feels as though you're sucking on the fuzzy end of the popsicle stick...).

Last of all, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing. Guess I'm the lucky one.

Good luck,

C Ya

Roundagain

Well said Desert Dude - and you are not the only one.

Flare Dammit!

Hey Desert Dude-

Happy that you found your little slice of helicopter nirvana. Trouble is, yours is the exception rather than the rule.

The helicopter industry is tiny. Just how many actual positions like Desert Dude's do we think there are out there...100, tops? Maybe not even that many. And this is something that pilots want/try to aspire to?

The sad irony is that a new helicopter pilot cannot even direct his career to end up at Desert Dude's job. Oh, he might aim in that general direction, but too many outside factors will come into play for robpowell69 to say, "Yes, I'm going to have Desert Dude's job one day!" Get real. Desert Dude lucked-out and he knows it. Or he should.

Meanwhile, the path to the left seat of an airliner is clearly marked. While you or I (e.g. older guys) very well might not end up making $300,000/year, the financial rewards are certainly there. Hey, I'd would even take $100,000/year with all the other bennies that come with being a captain for an airline. Because *THAT* is certainly and easily do-able, even at my age. Can we say the same about helicopters? Nope.

Ol' Desert Dude evidently doesn't like being called an underacheiver. He obviously could be doing anything he set his mind to. He said himself that he had his sights on a FedEx airline job once, but settled for being a helicopter pilot and righteously defends the choice. Good for him! But being an underacheiver has little to do with our own personal goals, and everything to do with what we are capable of.

Some of us have a neurotic need to fly helicopters, I suppose - something I've never quite understood. I've always loved to fly both fixed-wing and rotary...just LOVE to fly! And hopefully, I'll continue to fly for a long time to come.

Helicopters are not magic. They're just machines that do a job...machines that will kill you quick if you let your attention lapse for even a second. Yeah, they're neat and cool. Whoopee. Young pilots ask me all the time, "Man, how could you EVER get tired of flying helicopters??" They ask it with such a breathless, wide-eyed, disbelieving tone...the kind of look I used to have on my face, I guess, when I thought I wouldn't be able to breath without being a helicopter pilot. I say, call me back in twenty years and 10,000 hours. It's just a damn aircraft.

And it's not that I'm tired of them. It's just that if I never saw another helicopter ever again...that'd be okay. Really. I don't want to fly them for money anymore. Call me...

Mr. Underacheiver No More

SandBlaster-214

Wow,

Flare, it's a shame you didn't find your "piece of the pie". Hope it all works out for ya. However, I still have to disagree with you regarding the underachiever part. You stated:

**"But being an underacheiver has little to do with our own personal goals, and everything to do with what we are capable of." **

Is that to imply I should have been a trauma surgeon simply because I am capable of it? If so, then yes, I am an underachiever, BIG TIME. But, in doing so, what exactly have I achieved? Looking at it from another prospective, shouldn't we also aspire to be happy and content with our lives? As I earlier stated, I wouldn't be happy as a fixed-wing pilot, nor would I be happy as a banker or an attorney or a doctor, etc...

Call me what you like, I don't mind - I'll just be the happiest, most contented underachiever around this neck of the woods... as I walk off into the sunset while the rotorblades slowly unwind.

*****If you want it - get after it, robpowell69!!! Why don't you talk to that Whirly-whatever-her-name is from the other post. Sounds as if she's got something going on.

Anyway, good luck to all.

C Ya

Up & Away

Disappointed at the general attitude of the rotary brotherhood!!!!'Underachievers' indeed!!

I went fixed wing with the rest in the late 80's got command got loads of money paid off the morgages of two houses and now enjoying the freedom of helicopters again.. Fixed wing flying is easy!! Helicoptering is a joy!!

I feel better now

Heliport

This is not my post. Although now showing under my name, it was posted by Steve76 It didn't transfer with the others so I moved it.

At the very worst of it (and we can trade horror employment stories if you want), it still rates miles above the 5yrs I did on the workshop floor.
Spare a thought for the poor individuals who pump your gas or work the counter at Tims, Canadian Tire and the host of other mass employers. Some really never had a choice as to their future.

I think any person who attempts a "career" as a pilot can never be considered an "underachiever". The only underachiever is the person who gives up after the first couple of years of job searching, unemployment or constant rejection.

It seems also that plenty of helicopter drivers think the slabwing guys are raking it in. WRONG!

I have been a part of aviation since the 70's and can confirm that the only ones on the six figure incomes are the heavy drivers. It takes a lifetime to get into those jobs.

Eg: I was chatting with a lear driver in Windsor the other day. He drives a 10,000,000 aircraft has 3000hrs + 1000hrs on the lear = $35000 Canadian a year.
Most guys I know can easily double that in a summer. Its only taken them 3-5yrs to reach that level.

As for manipulating your career, it only takes some strategic planning and a little awareness that all the advice you will receive is not all good.
For instance; there are those who think co-pilot time is worthless. WRONG. Cojoe time is gold. It is the link from the bush to the city. Get it where and whenever you can.

I once went from the S76C to a B47 and back again after 3yrs on the 76. I felt I needed the change and a new challenge. 2yrs later hopping back to the 76 was just a matter of looking and waiting.

Ask how many robbie/JR/hughes drivers are sick of their jobs. Now see how long they have been stuck in the rut. Ask them what their ambitions were at the start. Was all their thinking about chasing deer, mustering, heliskiing and flying robbies or maybe a AS350?
They have not continued their education and development of new skills. Most have multi thousand of hours out bush. Have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars and never bothered to investigate an IFR ticket! No forethought. They are all great drivers but all the complaining at age 40 about how they would like to be home etc.... its no one elses fault but theirs.

SO! is it easy. NO is the definate answer. Wages and conditions are abysmal for a long time. Its hard on the kids and wife. But at the end of the day I look foward to going to work. I get a great office, stimulation, job satisfaction and I feel I am living and not just existing through the weekly grind.

How to get a Job?
Get a licence and go to Africa, Nothern Canada, South America, a tuna boat or anywhere else that the softer guys don't want to live. That is where you will find your first opportunity. Waiting for Bristows to let you fly the North Sea for them is a pipe dream. Spend only what you need. Leave the IFR for later, maybe just get a turbine endorsement. Don't spend all your bucks on the JR. Think about where to spend your money. The UK pound buys a lot of Aussie/NZ/SA and canuk dollars and the flying hours are accepted everywhere.
Get off your arse and do a little pushing and a few years of bush and the future will be bright.

Rant over

StevieTerrier

Time for my two-pence worth I think!

Before I took up commercial helicopter flying, I was working in IT. I was working contract, perhaps earning £750 / week in the early '80s. I was working about 3 months at a time, then blowing it all on hours building. I got one job working for Thames Tv (sorry about f@@@ing up the royalties payment progam, guys!!) The office I was in was located next to the Thames, and every day I watched those helis flying down the heli-routes into London. My friends who were with me at the time are now earning £1500 / week in IT, and have huge pensions when they retire. I am earning about a third of that, with no pension (oops) but the view from my office window changes every day. I would not change it for the world. The hell with the money. I am doing what I always dreamed of doing, and when I look back on my working life it will be with a smile at what I, a boy from a council estate, has (under?) acheived.

Yes, sometimes when I am in my 5th hour of pleasure flying I get a bit bored. But take a look at the big picture boys and ENJOY it. The alternatives just don't bear thinking about.

And before you ask, it cost me about £45,000. And if I had the choice again tomorrow, I would still do it.

Helicopters - if you have to make no money, what better way??

Heliport

Roundagain
DesertDude
Steve76
Up&Away
Stevie Terrier


Bert Sousa
Flare Dammit


Perhaps we ought to have Rotorheads' first ever poll?

Nick Lappos

Guys,

Time for me to weigh in. Flying is the ONLY way to make a living that allows the freedom to make your own judgements, the fun of handling a machine in three dimensions, and the satisfaction of knowing that your fate is literally in your hands.

Those who are bitter about their flying occupation certainly have valid points, but also underscore what my Dad told me - You vote with your feet. They get up each day and do it again, and again and so on. Something must be right with their lives.

As for me, I have flown professionally since I was 18, I am 53 now, and I don't intend to stop. Its a gas, its not usual, and every now and then I see something that a ground pounder can only dream about.

Were I 18, and looking for a job, I'd certainly become a pilot, all over again.

Nick

SandBlaster-214

Is there something in the atmosphere? Someone has a similar thread started over in JetBlast (under: Be Honest).

Keeping score Heliport?

What-ho Squiffy!

I've done both fixed and rotary and consider myself a helo driver first and foremost. I have had a break from flying, and never missed the plank flying at all. When making the transition from helo to plank, the plank drivers loved to caution the helo guys about how difficult it is with the higher speed etc. Well it is a load of old cobblers, and does not take long to get the hang of climb/straight and level/descent. Do that 6000 times and you have the life of a plank driver. Yawn.

I am convinced that what draws people to fixed wing is the lure of the airlines with the high pay and cushy conditions (i.e. a career choice). I really believe that helicopter pilots fly helicopters for the challenge, the variety and the satisfaction (try rescuing someone in a 747). If they wanted big money, they would have chosen airlines, banking, stockbroking or real estate. If you are smart, you can eke out a good living flying helicopters, and do some of the best flying.

So, I wouldn't have it any other way - and if I want to retire from flying, I'll apply to an airline

Flare Dammit!

What- ho Squiffy! wrote:
"I am convinced that what draws people to fixed wing is the lure of the airlines with the high pay and cushy conditions (i.e. a career choice). I really believe that helicopter pilots fly helicopters for the challenge, the variety and the satisfaction (try rescuing someone in a 747). "


And I'm convinced that most helicopter pilots are neurotic nutjobs.

People are drawn to the airlines by "high pay and cushy conditions"???? Say what? Hey buddy, why not just slap the faces of all fixed-wing pilots! How elitist.

Flying is flying. If you're good, it matters not what type of aircraft you're in. I always preferred flying low and slow and down-in-the-contour-of-the-land of helicopter flying. But I could easily have been just as happy up at FL330 in the pointy end of a 757. Those who call airline flying "boring" or "unchallenging" are just being dumb. It might not be to your taste, but don't demean it. The requirements are just...different.

The original poster, Rob Powell, was trying to contrast the two careers. It's a no-brainer: if there's a choice, GO AIRLINES!

If I had it to do over, would I become a professional helicopter pilot again? Yeah, probably. But hopefully, this time I'd quit before I got trapped. I don't regret becoming a helicopter pilot, but I kick myself for thinking for so long that it was the *only* thing that could make me happy. What a doofus.

What-ho Squiffy!

FD - I had to smile when you reckoned I am elitist and slapping airline pilots in the face. The last person I accused of having a (relatively) secure, highly paid job that wasn't too taxing, while being served meals and coffee ad nauseum was far from offended. I know a lot of airline pilots, and I attempt to offend them regularly with this method - to no avail.

And, they think I am a little strange for pursuing a career in helo's when I could throw in an application to the airlines. They just can't understand it. It's horses for courses, but the plank flying I have done is not a patch on the helo flying I have done and hope to do.

Feel the fear and do it anyway. If you choose to follow what you love doing, the money will come (or so I keep telling myself).

buttline

Where is the encouragement from the guys with the 'dream' jobs - Heliskiing, EMS, Police, SAR, Mediterannean VIP shuttles etc?

I gave up a life of sailing in the Caribbean and Med to do my CPL(H) - Far too much sun, vodka and lose women in sailing you see - it's a nightmare.... :-)

Attacking the airline guys is either jealousy or just misguided. I'm a new CPL(H) with no fixed wing experience but, IMHO, putting a 767 with 300+ souls on board on the deck in crappy viz is every bit as exciting as doing full-down autos, FMC or not.

What-Ho Squify - if money is a big motivator for you (nothing wrong with that sport) may I suggest the most profitable industry sectors.... Narcotics, Investment Banking, I.T., Real Estate, Oil. Several of them go quite nicely with helicopter support! Hell, if you're Australian all you have to do is work in the U.K. for a few years and you go home loaded! :-)

Heliport

Roundagain
DesertDude
Steve76
Up&Away
Stevie Terrier
Nick Lappos
What-ho Squiffy!
buttline


Bert Sousa
Flare Dammit "I'm convinced that most helicopter pilots are neurotic nutjobs."

What-ho Squiffy!

Hey Mr Buttline,

If money was my motivator, would I be a helo driver? I think not, and that was the whole point of my post. You must have skim-read it.

And I agree with the other post regarding encouragement from those dream-job dudes. C'mon guys!

What Limits

I must admit that I never expected to be rated with the dream job dudes but as a veteran HEMS driver I can tell you that this job is the best thing you can do and remain legal.

I too had a dalliance with fixed wing flying in the Armed Services and it was good, with lots of demanding flying (mainly IFR) throughout Europe. When I left I made a conscious decision NOT to do Fixed-Wing. After all, its only got money going for it (and lots of it!).

The job I do now is the best. Legalised hooliganism, and I get to save lives occasionally. I work for the best employer I know (me) and I get well paid with a pension to boot.

What could be better than that.

(Mediterranean VIP Shuttle should not be included in the list of dream jobs IMHO!)