The Demise of the Professional Pilot
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I don't know CANTSAY but when I fly... alone... back and forth to and from the States over the northern route in winter with a light twin I don't care that I don't have 300 passengers on board...I'm on board and that concentrates the mind wonderfully... 
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This has been an interesting thread so far and has raised a few thoughts as I tried to grasp the general direction. I am looking at this from my point of view which is commercial license but no job, and currently working in marketing of electronic components.
1. Flying is not what it used to be - Amen
2. Management is in it for the money - Amen, but so are most humans whatever their line of work. Humans are greedy. My management doesn't give a rats ass if I think the salary is low, they'll hire someone else thank you very much...
3. Pilots want to keep on flying and don't want to lose their jobs -go figure. It can't be all bad.
4. Piloting still requires skills what with all the automation. In fact, the electronics add another twist to the game. Electronics, and mechanics, fail just like humans - it's not a perfect world.
I don't believe in non-pilot aircraft mainly because nobody would fly in them. Most pax are terrified WITH pilots up front but NOT BECAUSE of them. Remove the Pilots and you remove what little faith our fellow human beings have in arriving safely at the other terminal.
5. Humans resist change, always have, always will.
6. Life goes on, and so will flying.
7. The only constant in life is change.
What Pilots do is black magic to most of the general public. There are one or two who think pilots are overpaid just because they fly on autopilot all the time. These are the ones who know there is an autopilot but have no clue as to what, how, when and where they operate, fail and cause problems.
Well, as has been pointed out, pilots aren't paid for riding along with George, it's when he takes a rest and everything goes dark that they earn their pay. If it happens only once in a lifetime, great! - congratulations!
If management neglects to realise this they will be in for a surprise the day they try to remove the guys up front.
I've heard this argument from pilots, that we'll all be replaced by automation. That is a dream of yesteryear and perhaps a very very very distant future, not due to technology but psychology.
The General Public is the current problem and future savior for pilothood. Sure, they, we, I, want cheap airfares. I also demand the guys up front are on their toes. I believe they are trained professionals and place my life in their capable hands. Pilots are entrusted with peoples lives, not by management but by them, the self-loading cargo as someone said (Nice one, perhaps a change of attitude would help?). Because the General Public doesn't have indepth knowledge of what flying is and what makes it tick in a safe manner, we can provide that for them and justify the required level of pay.
If you don't believe this listen to an aviation report on the news. 90% is backwards and incorrect. Journalists aren't more stupid than the general public, they ARE the general public. That's how little they really know about this. That's how they can demand a 19£ airfare from London to Paris, it sounds reasonable to them. Crappy management drives the prices down even further. When will airlines pay customers to fly?
Bring on the terrified public to battle for reasonable T&C. That's the only real live threat for management!
1. Flying is not what it used to be - Amen
2. Management is in it for the money - Amen, but so are most humans whatever their line of work. Humans are greedy. My management doesn't give a rats ass if I think the salary is low, they'll hire someone else thank you very much...
3. Pilots want to keep on flying and don't want to lose their jobs -go figure. It can't be all bad.
4. Piloting still requires skills what with all the automation. In fact, the electronics add another twist to the game. Electronics, and mechanics, fail just like humans - it's not a perfect world.
I don't believe in non-pilot aircraft mainly because nobody would fly in them. Most pax are terrified WITH pilots up front but NOT BECAUSE of them. Remove the Pilots and you remove what little faith our fellow human beings have in arriving safely at the other terminal.
5. Humans resist change, always have, always will.
6. Life goes on, and so will flying.
7. The only constant in life is change.
What Pilots do is black magic to most of the general public. There are one or two who think pilots are overpaid just because they fly on autopilot all the time. These are the ones who know there is an autopilot but have no clue as to what, how, when and where they operate, fail and cause problems.
Well, as has been pointed out, pilots aren't paid for riding along with George, it's when he takes a rest and everything goes dark that they earn their pay. If it happens only once in a lifetime, great! - congratulations!
If management neglects to realise this they will be in for a surprise the day they try to remove the guys up front.
I've heard this argument from pilots, that we'll all be replaced by automation. That is a dream of yesteryear and perhaps a very very very distant future, not due to technology but psychology.
The General Public is the current problem and future savior for pilothood. Sure, they, we, I, want cheap airfares. I also demand the guys up front are on their toes. I believe they are trained professionals and place my life in their capable hands. Pilots are entrusted with peoples lives, not by management but by them, the self-loading cargo as someone said (Nice one, perhaps a change of attitude would help?). Because the General Public doesn't have indepth knowledge of what flying is and what makes it tick in a safe manner, we can provide that for them and justify the required level of pay.
If you don't believe this listen to an aviation report on the news. 90% is backwards and incorrect. Journalists aren't more stupid than the general public, they ARE the general public. That's how little they really know about this. That's how they can demand a 19£ airfare from London to Paris, it sounds reasonable to them. Crappy management drives the prices down even further. When will airlines pay customers to fly?
Bring on the terrified public to battle for reasonable T&C. That's the only real live threat for management!
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Unmanned Aircraft.
Unmanned aircraft may well happen, certainly with freighters, however it will be a very long time before unmanned pax aircraft happen.
Even now the US are using pilotless reconnaissance aircraft in Iraq and Afghanistan piloted by someone in the US, however these are considered expendable, just as they are willing to fire off $1,000,000 cruise missiles at targets.
If a problem occurred in-flight and they couldn’t sort it out it would crash.
Would the traveling public consider this acceptable for pilotless passenger airliners? I doubt it. Whereas freighter aircraft may be accepted sooner.
Certainly I will be out of flying well before the freighters go pilotless, and retired or 6 feet under, before pilotless passenger aircraft are common. It won’t affect my children as I’m discouraging them from a flying career due to my concerns with the airline industry as per my previous posts. So i’m not saying this to protect my job.
Here's my prediction
Robots and advanced computers are been developed now.
When they are far enough along in there development they will be used for / in;
Armies, Police, Laborers, Factories, Trains, Buses, Ships, and in the Airlines – check in, loaders, ATC, catering, pilots, engineering etc.
Of course the only countries who can afford to have them will be the developed countries, starting with Japan, the main developer. This will cause massive unemployment, and the associated rise in crime, and thus breakdown in society (e.g.; Philippines, Russia, and Africa)
Ultimately people from the developed countries will have to move to the less developed countries for any chance of finding a job. Negative population growth will end in depression for those countries.
So although I believe ‘unmanned transport’s' posts are a windup, we’ll probably see you in the unemployment que before us.
The Demise of the Professional Pilot’s Profession continues Look at what’s been in the news and Pprune lately.
United Airlines
Have made 2.5 Billion Dollars in cuts and concessions / pensions with all staff in the last 2-3 years.
Just read in the paper they require another 2 Billion Dollars in cuts to survive. Will they ask for another 2 Billion Dollars in cuts in another 2 years?
US Airways
More cuts and concessions with its employees.
Air Italia
Cut in pay and conditions, extended working hours.
BA Short Haul
Big shakeup on the cards.
Emirates
The expanding airline with the shiny new planes that was luring pilots from around the world, now working up to max FDL, pilots concerned about fatigue. Pilot shortage just means longer duty times to operate the schedule, will Emirates improve.
These are the National Airlines of some countries.
Ironically the employees of first low cost airlines, Southwest, seem reasonably happy; it’s just the copycats like Ryan air that seem to have taken the concept of low costs and B@ggerised it to a new level of low.
Others national airlines with unhappy staff on Pprune
Air Finland, Singapore, Malaysian, Royal Brunei, Plus many more.
With flights fairly full why are these airlines struggling, maybe airfares should be increased to a realistic level.
This is not the grumblings of a few whining pilots, there is a lot of concern over fatigue and the general demise of the pilots profession
Even now the US are using pilotless reconnaissance aircraft in Iraq and Afghanistan piloted by someone in the US, however these are considered expendable, just as they are willing to fire off $1,000,000 cruise missiles at targets.
If a problem occurred in-flight and they couldn’t sort it out it would crash.
Would the traveling public consider this acceptable for pilotless passenger airliners? I doubt it. Whereas freighter aircraft may be accepted sooner.
Certainly I will be out of flying well before the freighters go pilotless, and retired or 6 feet under, before pilotless passenger aircraft are common. It won’t affect my children as I’m discouraging them from a flying career due to my concerns with the airline industry as per my previous posts. So i’m not saying this to protect my job.
Here's my prediction
Robots and advanced computers are been developed now.
When they are far enough along in there development they will be used for / in;
Armies, Police, Laborers, Factories, Trains, Buses, Ships, and in the Airlines – check in, loaders, ATC, catering, pilots, engineering etc.
Of course the only countries who can afford to have them will be the developed countries, starting with Japan, the main developer. This will cause massive unemployment, and the associated rise in crime, and thus breakdown in society (e.g.; Philippines, Russia, and Africa)
Ultimately people from the developed countries will have to move to the less developed countries for any chance of finding a job. Negative population growth will end in depression for those countries.
So although I believe ‘unmanned transport’s' posts are a windup, we’ll probably see you in the unemployment que before us.
The Demise of the Professional Pilot’s Profession continues Look at what’s been in the news and Pprune lately.
United Airlines
Have made 2.5 Billion Dollars in cuts and concessions / pensions with all staff in the last 2-3 years.
Just read in the paper they require another 2 Billion Dollars in cuts to survive. Will they ask for another 2 Billion Dollars in cuts in another 2 years?
US Airways
More cuts and concessions with its employees.
Air Italia
Cut in pay and conditions, extended working hours.
BA Short Haul
Big shakeup on the cards.
Emirates
The expanding airline with the shiny new planes that was luring pilots from around the world, now working up to max FDL, pilots concerned about fatigue. Pilot shortage just means longer duty times to operate the schedule, will Emirates improve.
These are the National Airlines of some countries.
Ironically the employees of first low cost airlines, Southwest, seem reasonably happy; it’s just the copycats like Ryan air that seem to have taken the concept of low costs and B@ggerised it to a new level of low.
Others national airlines with unhappy staff on Pprune
Air Finland, Singapore, Malaysian, Royal Brunei, Plus many more.
With flights fairly full why are these airlines struggling, maybe airfares should be increased to a realistic level.
This is not the grumblings of a few whining pilots, there is a lot of concern over fatigue and the general demise of the pilots profession
Last edited by TDF380; 25th Feb 2005 at 00:18.
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I absolutely agree. Flying was a luxury before, why should it be like a bus fair now. New technology? As far as I know, we have learned how to fly further, safer, higher, faster. Does not sound like we saved a lot of money since piston engines. And yet the public expects it to be a reasonable price. Since I found out the real thruth about aviation and pilots, I am just afraid that the person who has dedicated his life towards flying so he can once forget about money and enjoy the freedom- is now probably thinking of how he is going to pay for dinner on our way down to Frankfurt.
I am not a pilot yet, so I sit in the back which means I pay to fly.
I dont know which way to hit it from but it's just not fair. How does a flight attendant at one airline with 6 month of training at most get paid the same as a co-pilot with atleast 7 years experience from another airline.
It has all been said before, so now instead of goign over the same issue ( which i just did
) - lets do something. Lets post ways that we can fight this.
Although Impossible- A true revolution would be- to see every airplane in the world cruise at 10000 feet one day, just to show the kind of power the pilots have. Unrealistic, but what if An airline did it, inspiring another airline, and so on. Since I dont see anything about strikes on news lately.
So what really stops us. There are families and children that need to be fed, educated and basically paid for. So before you think about that and accept another pay cut, just think, that the money now went to your CEO's kid's new Porche. So the managment keeps us afraid that we'll loose our jobs and have no money, why cant we do the same to them. Bottom line is, people need to fly and thats not about to change.
Pilots arent asking for 300k a year on there 3rd year of work as a Captain, but wouldnt it be nice to earn the respect form people who think that Pilots are nothing but busdrivers, after all- unfortunatly that is the image that people now a days think of, atleast here in canada.
I believe that Pilots are like a different breed of people that are not like anyone else, and while a lot of people can get mighty close to being, something very significant other than technical and professional characteristics always separates us from bus drivers.
I am not a pilot yet, so I sit in the back which means I pay to fly.
I dont know which way to hit it from but it's just not fair. How does a flight attendant at one airline with 6 month of training at most get paid the same as a co-pilot with atleast 7 years experience from another airline.
It has all been said before, so now instead of goign over the same issue ( which i just did
) - lets do something. Lets post ways that we can fight this.Although Impossible- A true revolution would be- to see every airplane in the world cruise at 10000 feet one day, just to show the kind of power the pilots have. Unrealistic, but what if An airline did it, inspiring another airline, and so on. Since I dont see anything about strikes on news lately.
So what really stops us. There are families and children that need to be fed, educated and basically paid for. So before you think about that and accept another pay cut, just think, that the money now went to your CEO's kid's new Porche. So the managment keeps us afraid that we'll loose our jobs and have no money, why cant we do the same to them. Bottom line is, people need to fly and thats not about to change.
Pilots arent asking for 300k a year on there 3rd year of work as a Captain, but wouldnt it be nice to earn the respect form people who think that Pilots are nothing but busdrivers, after all- unfortunatly that is the image that people now a days think of, atleast here in canada.
I believe that Pilots are like a different breed of people that are not like anyone else, and while a lot of people can get mighty close to being, something very significant other than technical and professional characteristics always separates us from bus drivers.
