How to change industry? - Leaving aviation.
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How to change industry? - Leaving aviation.
I think that it might be about time for me to change industry and am looking for ideas of other industries where I can put my skills to use.
I'm ex-RAF and have been out for nearly 6 years and contracting since. Having completed all of my modules for B2 over 2 years ago, I just haven't been able to get my foot in the door to get civil aircraft experience and seem to be stuck in a vicious circle of not being able to get the experience because I don't already have it. I spoke to the CAA yesterday to clarify the situation and was told that working for a part-145 company didn't classify as a civil aircraft environment and the aircraft have to be used for fee paying passengers.
I did just get offered a job in Prestwick with PAM and although I was willing to take the pay cut and live away from my family for a year, the terms and conditions of the contract were just so bad that I couldn't possibly sign it.
So now I'm back to square one of looking for civilian aircraft experience again and there just doesn't seem to be much around at the moment and I don't have the contacts to get in on a winter program or something like that.
This brings me to the point of this post. What other industries take on guys from aviation and pay similar wages and also provide career development opportunities?
I know quite a few guys have moved to trains and offshore, but neither of those 2, especially offshore, appeal to me.
What about staying in aviation and trying to move into design? Is it possible without a degree?
I've just turned 33 and am not getting any younger and I feel that if I'm going to make the switch to another industry the it's now or never.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
LG
I'm ex-RAF and have been out for nearly 6 years and contracting since. Having completed all of my modules for B2 over 2 years ago, I just haven't been able to get my foot in the door to get civil aircraft experience and seem to be stuck in a vicious circle of not being able to get the experience because I don't already have it. I spoke to the CAA yesterday to clarify the situation and was told that working for a part-145 company didn't classify as a civil aircraft environment and the aircraft have to be used for fee paying passengers.
I did just get offered a job in Prestwick with PAM and although I was willing to take the pay cut and live away from my family for a year, the terms and conditions of the contract were just so bad that I couldn't possibly sign it.
So now I'm back to square one of looking for civilian aircraft experience again and there just doesn't seem to be much around at the moment and I don't have the contacts to get in on a winter program or something like that.
This brings me to the point of this post. What other industries take on guys from aviation and pay similar wages and also provide career development opportunities?
I know quite a few guys have moved to trains and offshore, but neither of those 2, especially offshore, appeal to me.
What about staying in aviation and trying to move into design? Is it possible without a degree?
I've just turned 33 and am not getting any younger and I feel that if I'm going to make the switch to another industry the it's now or never.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
LG
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Not all offshore work is bad and at the end of the day its money and quality time off that counYou seem to be the right age for the oil industry. ROVs and the companies operating them can be found on Google. rovworld dot com is worth a look.
Last edited by piggybank; 26th Sep 2012 at 21:34.
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Looking at it now, I wish I had spent my money on doing an ROV Pilot Tech course rather than doing all of my Part-66 modules, but it's a similar situation, where you can pay thousands on courses and still struggle to get into the industry.
From what I've read, it appears that the oil industry can be a bit like aviation in that most of the time it's not what you know but who you know when it comes to getting a start in the industry.
From what I've read, it appears that the oil industry can be a bit like aviation in that most of the time it's not what you know but who you know when it comes to getting a start in the industry.
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Don't you have any contacts from your RAF days that are now inside the industry? Perhaps some rooting around in Facebook and FriendsReunited is called for.
I went through all this back in 2000. I'd just left Saudi and didn't even get replies to my applications for vacancies. One phone call to an old mate got me the interview, and that was just a formality as the word from my inside mate was worth much more.
I'd advise taking almost anything within the industry, as then you'll make all the contacts you'll need, as long as you're what they want, of course!
Good luck
Tony
I went through all this back in 2000. I'd just left Saudi and didn't even get replies to my applications for vacancies. One phone call to an old mate got me the interview, and that was just a formality as the word from my inside mate was worth much more.
I'd advise taking almost anything within the industry, as then you'll make all the contacts you'll need, as long as you're what they want, of course!
Good luck
Tony
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E4.3 ‘Other Experienced Applicants’
Aircraft maintenance experience gained outside a civil aircraft maintenance environment can include experience gained in armed forces, coast guards and police.
E4.4 Experience Required
B2 applicants must demonstrate 1 years experience in a civil maintenance environment appropriate to the category applied for, where the applicant can provide satisfactory evidence of working in one of the above disciplines (E4.3).
Aircraft maintenance experience gained outside a civil aircraft maintenance environment can include experience gained in armed forces, coast guards and police.
E4.4 Experience Required
B2 applicants must demonstrate 1 years experience in a civil maintenance environment appropriate to the category applied for, where the applicant can provide satisfactory evidence of working in one of the above disciplines (E4.3).
From page 55
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ELGDbook_07_webversion.pdf
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IN-2012/141: Additional documentation requirements for Part-66 basic licence applications when experience is gained outside a Part-145 or Part-M approved maintenance organisation | Publications | About the CAA
Introduction
1.1 This Information Notice provides details of the additional documentation required when applying for a Part-66 licence where the practical experience has been gained wholly, or in part, outside a Part-145 or Part-M approved maintenance organisation, and the introduction of the new B3 category.
2. Practical experience
2.1 From the 28 September 2012, where practical experience is gained outside of a Part-145 or Part-M approved maintenance organisation, the applicant is required to submit confirmation from the National Authority responsible for the maintenance organisation concerned, that the organisation is approved under the national regulation for the maintenance activities stated and that the signatory in Form 19 section 07 is a member of that maintenance organisation.
1.1 This Information Notice provides details of the additional documentation required when applying for a Part-66 licence where the practical experience has been gained wholly, or in part, outside a Part-145 or Part-M approved maintenance organisation, and the introduction of the new B3 category.
2. Practical experience
2.1 From the 28 September 2012, where practical experience is gained outside of a Part-145 or Part-M approved maintenance organisation, the applicant is required to submit confirmation from the National Authority responsible for the maintenance organisation concerned, that the organisation is approved under the national regulation for the maintenance activities stated and that the signatory in Form 19 section 07 is a member of that maintenance organisation.
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I have no idea how the CAA works and I agree that you get conflicting information, depending on who you speak to.
In the RAF I worked on Nimrod and then Hercules and since leaving have worked at Marshall Aerospace (Part-145), Agusta Westland (Part-145), Briefly at KLM (Civilian and Part-145) and most recently at Airbus Military on flight line (also Part-145)
I called the CAA and explained this to them and asked if this would be suitable and was explicitly told that the term 'Civil maintenance environment' means work carried out on aircraft that carry fee paying passengers.
What I can't understand, is that I know that permanent staff at places I've worked at have somehow managed to get licenced and I know that they only worked on military aircraft. How is that possible?
In the RAF I worked on Nimrod and then Hercules and since leaving have worked at Marshall Aerospace (Part-145), Agusta Westland (Part-145), Briefly at KLM (Civilian and Part-145) and most recently at Airbus Military on flight line (also Part-145)
I called the CAA and explained this to them and asked if this would be suitable and was explicitly told that the term 'Civil maintenance environment' means work carried out on aircraft that carry fee paying passengers.
What I can't understand, is that I know that permanent staff at places I've worked at have somehow managed to get licenced and I know that they only worked on military aircraft. How is that possible?
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I would go back to them and try to speak to the guy in charge of the dept, I was lucky as when I came out RAF experience tended to count, and i subsequently went from section L to EASA, indeed a FSgt I knew did his on the Herc, after all there is a Civi variant. A lot are simply office staff today that do not know what they are spouting, i still haven't managed to get a group rating issue resolved on my licence.
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Do you know if I can take my CAA exam certificates and my logbook and try to get a licence issued in France? I'm not all that fussed about having a CAA issued licence and I believe the French equivalent aren't quite as difficult to deal with. It would be much easier for me if I can do that as I now live in France.
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In theory probably yes, but the CAA do not like other countries engineers getting a UK licence issued, as the UK one is held around the world at a premium, and they simply will not accept engineers with other EASA licences converted to a UK one because if that. A lot of companies worldwide ask for UK EASA licences, and will not accept French German Italian as they are deemed to be sub standard etc.
Last edited by NutLoose; 28th Sep 2012 at 19:17.
Lovegroove:"What I can't understand, is that I know that permanent staff at places I've worked at have somehow managed to get licenced and I know that they only worked on military aircraft. How is that possible? "
It depends on WHEN they got their Licences:
I got my first CAA A&C LWTR in 1989 whilst still in the RAF and having worked mainly on military aircraft (though, admittedly, I did some civil aircraft work too) I continued to collect LWTRs for some years till I left the RAF in 1999.
In BCAR days it was a requirement to show the ATA Chapters you worked on and not necessarily to what "Spec" you met. BCAR Section L Issues 4 to 8 differed quite a bit!
On the implementation of JAR & EASA it was a simple case of Grandfather Rights to convert to JAR 66 and then Part 66.
Dont get frustrated by other peoples qualifications...just sort out your own.
They all take time, patience and tenacity.
Best of luck.
It depends on WHEN they got their Licences:
I got my first CAA A&C LWTR in 1989 whilst still in the RAF and having worked mainly on military aircraft (though, admittedly, I did some civil aircraft work too) I continued to collect LWTRs for some years till I left the RAF in 1999.
In BCAR days it was a requirement to show the ATA Chapters you worked on and not necessarily to what "Spec" you met. BCAR Section L Issues 4 to 8 differed quite a bit!
On the implementation of JAR & EASA it was a simple case of Grandfather Rights to convert to JAR 66 and then Part 66.
Dont get frustrated by other peoples qualifications...just sort out your own.
They all take time, patience and tenacity.
Best of luck.
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'Civil maintenance environment' means work carried out on aircraft that carry fee paying passengers.
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I'm well aware of the fact that in some countries the UK CAA issued licence is held in high regard, which is why i have been trying to get one. The problem is that I am now permanently residing in France with my family and would really quite like to stay here (missus is French) but the lack of licence means that it's hard to get in anywhere local. My dream job would be working at Geneva on biz jets but not got a hope without a licence.
I've reached the point now where my family have had enough of me going away to work and I either have to try and get my licence soon and then a job closer to home or give up on aviation and try something else.
I've reached the point now where my family have had enough of me going away to work and I either have to try and get my licence soon and then a job closer to home or give up on aviation and try something else.
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I know what you mean about getting upset about other people's qualifications, but it's hard not to sometimes when the system seems so unfair sometimes.
The person that I was talking about started doing their modules at the same time as me and managed to get their licence under the new regulations in 2010, when only working on military aircraft.
The person that I was talking about started doing their modules at the same time as me and managed to get their licence under the new regulations in 2010, when only working on military aircraft.
Last edited by lovegroove; 28th Sep 2012 at 19:45.
If they got their licences under Marshall's cover it may be that Marshalls' was guiding them for a contract under which they needed an EASA 66 licence.
Don't forget that Marshall has some 'sway' and also has access to civil aircraft - e.g. L1011 Tristars are not a military type and are fully certified on both sides of the Atlantic. EH/AW101 is also a Civil Certified Type.
As a Last Resort - Ask the guys how they did it?
Don't forget that Marshall has some 'sway' and also has access to civil aircraft - e.g. L1011 Tristars are not a military type and are fully certified on both sides of the Atlantic. EH/AW101 is also a Civil Certified Type.
As a Last Resort - Ask the guys how they did it?
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Quote:
'Civil maintenance environment' means work carried out on aircraft that carry fee paying passengers.
'Civil maintenance environment' means work carried out on aircraft that carry fee paying passengers.
I would have thought the likes of Geneva would snap you up if they knew it was just a time factor.
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Hi,
I don't know if it can useful to you but here in Spain you can count 1 year of your military experience in order to apply for your license and civil experience must be obtained in a part 145 center (light aircrafts, helicopters, freighters, airliners...) e.g. If you need 5 years = 4 years civil + 1 year military. Same EASA as in UK
I don't know if it can useful to you but here in Spain you can count 1 year of your military experience in order to apply for your license and civil experience must be obtained in a part 145 center (light aircrafts, helicopters, freighters, airliners...) e.g. If you need 5 years = 4 years civil + 1 year military. Same EASA as in UK
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sureshrama04
i have a doubt wheather experince in flying school two seater trainer aircraft ( non easa aircraft and non easa approved but approved in civil avaition of national legislation can be can be considered for B3 category infact already submitted the IN-2012/141 FORM , but no reply . i have not started the easa exams yet as for the asian countries its fees is costly , i have plans to migrate so kindly suggest . got more than 8 years experince in aviation kindly suggest