The "Whistling wheelbarrow"
treadigraph:
You asked earlier on about Otrag Range Services; the idea was to construct a rocket launching site in Zaire. I think it was a German (or an Austrian) company.
They bought two ex RAF Argosys:
XP446 became 9Q-COE and XR136 became 9Q-COA.
One of my good friends went to work for them. He did a trip from Lubumbashi to their up-country strip in 9Q-COE on 01.06.79. Unfortunately, they made a bit of a "firm" arrival. After unloading, they had a look around the aircraft and didn't see any obvious damage so they flew back to Lubumbashi. A closer inspection revealed wrinkles in the booms so the aircraft never flew again.
My South African friend (Brian S.) spotted the remains at Lubumbashi some years ago and sent me a few photographs. There was not a hell of a lot of it left.
The other one was broken up at East Midlands in 1981.
Going back to Noddy; if you really wanted to frighten yourself, a really good wheeze was to put the periscopic sextant up and look backwards. Not only did the booms flex, so did the tailplane and the fins nodded! I always assumed that it was all meant to do that.
You are right; Ken is sadly missed. I knew him through 53 Sqn and RAFGSA gliding. He was indeed a gent and his book is far from boring.
By the way, there is a lot of information to be found on:
ARDET Reunion Website
You asked earlier on about Otrag Range Services; the idea was to construct a rocket launching site in Zaire. I think it was a German (or an Austrian) company.
They bought two ex RAF Argosys:
XP446 became 9Q-COE and XR136 became 9Q-COA.
One of my good friends went to work for them. He did a trip from Lubumbashi to their up-country strip in 9Q-COE on 01.06.79. Unfortunately, they made a bit of a "firm" arrival. After unloading, they had a look around the aircraft and didn't see any obvious damage so they flew back to Lubumbashi. A closer inspection revealed wrinkles in the booms so the aircraft never flew again.
My South African friend (Brian S.) spotted the remains at Lubumbashi some years ago and sent me a few photographs. There was not a hell of a lot of it left.
The other one was broken up at East Midlands in 1981.
Going back to Noddy; if you really wanted to frighten yourself, a really good wheeze was to put the periscopic sextant up and look backwards. Not only did the booms flex, so did the tailplane and the fins nodded! I always assumed that it was all meant to do that.
You are right; Ken is sadly missed. I knew him through 53 Sqn and RAFGSA gliding. He was indeed a gent and his book is far from boring.
By the way, there is a lot of information to be found on:
ARDET Reunion Website
Thought police antagonist
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This little video may be of interest...a bit of nostalgia concerning SAFEAir and their operation of the type....watch out for the "oops !"...arrival towards the end..
....some nice benign flying shots however which may bring back a few memories...it's a bit of a "yuk" start to the video though so you have been warned...
Armstrong-Whitworth AW650 Argosy - UK
....some nice benign flying shots however which may bring back a few memories...it's a bit of a "yuk" start to the video though so you have been warned...Armstrong-Whitworth AW650 Argosy - UK
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Thanks for that JW411, I think it was probably around Easter '81 that I was there - I recall it being painted mostly red.
Argosy video
The extreme winter of 1962-63 played havoc at Benson. Taxiways and runways were closed by packed snow and ice until March 63. The two week flying phase of my course was completed in Malta and Idris. At that time the flying controls were prone to freezing up, so we were banned from flying in cloud above the freezing level, hence the routing via Gibraltar. YouTube - Chap 7 Argosy Course 1962 3 Large
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Hi Brakedwell. Just looked in my log book to find that I was also on that jolly too. We flew from Odiham as Benson hadn't been deiced in time. Enjoyed the video.
I was on XN 855.
I was on XN 855.
mally35
Just looked at my logbook. My first dual flight at Malta was on Feb 26 and I operated 848 back to Benson via Gib on 22/23 March 1963. The 55h.30m course was longer than I remembered.
Just looked at my logbook. My first dual flight at Malta was on Feb 26 and I operated 848 back to Benson via Gib on 22/23 March 1963. The 55h.30m course was longer than I remembered.
Belatedly catching up on this thread - my first Nav tour was on 105 (year unaccompanied) then 267. (For JW411: I see that we first crewed together on 11 Dec 66, a Bahrain Overflight, which I think was a Route Check all concerned expected would raise me from my ex-OCU D to C Cat, but didn't! I fear that my glazed response to your "Reaction to an overspeeding prop?" question didn't help.)
I can add a bit to previous posts. November 66 - my first trip, screened of course, down to Matsapa for the regular resupply run to Francistown, where the anti-UDI radio mentioned earlier had been established. Landing back at Matsapa, the aircraft lurched to one side, was corrected, and we taxied in to find both tyres on one side burst, and severe scorches on the other. No doubt a bit of brake on touchdown? So, end of resupply runs till new tyres could arrive and Dip Clear times meant that was at least a week away. The copilot and I blagged a flight to Jo'burg on one of the Aero Commander Air Taxi aircraft that flew into Matsapa; quick night there then on by train to Pretoria, where we presented ourselves, all unbidden, at the Air Adviser's door. Fortunately, he and his wife were the spirit of hospitality and, next day, he flew us back to Matsapa on the ex-Queen's Flight Heron (still bright red) that was his personal aircraft - so we know that was a time ago now!
Another Argosy duly arrived with tyres and wheel-changing kit - and I only mention that as I understand that, on a previous occasion, a flight laid on to bring a replacement windscreen from Khormaksar had arrived without it! Anyway, with the aircraft, came a signal from HQ MEAF saying get both aircraft serviceable and await instructions. These were not long in coming: two further aircraft were on their way and all four would be used to evacuate the Army battalion based in Swaziland (1st Royal Irish Fusiliers) to Durban, where they would embark on HMS "Fearless" for transit to Aden, and recovery from there to the UK. Sanctions were about to be imposed on Rhodesia by HMG; the reaction of South Africa and Portugal, still the colonial power in Mozambique, was uncertain; and it was clearly felt that the British battalion could become something of a hostage if things went badly. Our CO, Eddie Rigg, came down to be Det Cdr and, still with my D Cat, I was made Ops Officer and general Army Liaison for Op LOPEN that followed. So, the planned 6 or so-day trip extended over nearly 4 weeks before my return to base.
The routing on Ferry flights back to the UK changed, I think permanently, in early Feb 67. I was scheduled for one, overflying Egypt as normal, when clearance for any such overflights by British military aircraft was withdrawn. Egypt was almost certainly instigating/supporting much of the difficulties in South Yemen at the time, and I guess the diplomatic atmosphere had frozen somewhat. We then had to replan via the CENTO route, await the requisite DipClears; and on 15 Feb we set off for Sharjah/Teheran/ Diyarbakir/ Akrotiri/Luqa/Benson. And variations on that were used for the remaining few months or so of 105's time at Khormaksar, before the earlier than planned move to Muharraq from July 67.
Possibly enough for now - maybe more later - but I have to say that I found the Argosy an excellent aircraft on which to build experience, and the airdrop time I put in on it put me nicely in the running for an exchange tour on the C-141A a little later on.
I can add a bit to previous posts. November 66 - my first trip, screened of course, down to Matsapa for the regular resupply run to Francistown, where the anti-UDI radio mentioned earlier had been established. Landing back at Matsapa, the aircraft lurched to one side, was corrected, and we taxied in to find both tyres on one side burst, and severe scorches on the other. No doubt a bit of brake on touchdown? So, end of resupply runs till new tyres could arrive and Dip Clear times meant that was at least a week away. The copilot and I blagged a flight to Jo'burg on one of the Aero Commander Air Taxi aircraft that flew into Matsapa; quick night there then on by train to Pretoria, where we presented ourselves, all unbidden, at the Air Adviser's door. Fortunately, he and his wife were the spirit of hospitality and, next day, he flew us back to Matsapa on the ex-Queen's Flight Heron (still bright red) that was his personal aircraft - so we know that was a time ago now!
Another Argosy duly arrived with tyres and wheel-changing kit - and I only mention that as I understand that, on a previous occasion, a flight laid on to bring a replacement windscreen from Khormaksar had arrived without it! Anyway, with the aircraft, came a signal from HQ MEAF saying get both aircraft serviceable and await instructions. These were not long in coming: two further aircraft were on their way and all four would be used to evacuate the Army battalion based in Swaziland (1st Royal Irish Fusiliers) to Durban, where they would embark on HMS "Fearless" for transit to Aden, and recovery from there to the UK. Sanctions were about to be imposed on Rhodesia by HMG; the reaction of South Africa and Portugal, still the colonial power in Mozambique, was uncertain; and it was clearly felt that the British battalion could become something of a hostage if things went badly. Our CO, Eddie Rigg, came down to be Det Cdr and, still with my D Cat, I was made Ops Officer and general Army Liaison for Op LOPEN that followed. So, the planned 6 or so-day trip extended over nearly 4 weeks before my return to base.
The routing on Ferry flights back to the UK changed, I think permanently, in early Feb 67. I was scheduled for one, overflying Egypt as normal, when clearance for any such overflights by British military aircraft was withdrawn. Egypt was almost certainly instigating/supporting much of the difficulties in South Yemen at the time, and I guess the diplomatic atmosphere had frozen somewhat. We then had to replan via the CENTO route, await the requisite DipClears; and on 15 Feb we set off for Sharjah/Teheran/ Diyarbakir/ Akrotiri/Luqa/Benson. And variations on that were used for the remaining few months or so of 105's time at Khormaksar, before the earlier than planned move to Muharraq from July 67.
Possibly enough for now - maybe more later - but I have to say that I found the Argosy an excellent aircraft on which to build experience, and the airdrop time I put in on it put me nicely in the running for an exchange tour on the C-141A a little later on.
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RAF squadrons that used the Argosy were 114 115 215 267 70 and 105.
Not sure on the civie side but certainly BEA did. Quite a few of the RAF ones were used civilian wise after 'demob'. Safeair in NZ operated them but they were not ex military.Zantop was an American user as was Riddle.
Not sure on the civie side but certainly BEA did. Quite a few of the RAF ones were used civilian wise after 'demob'. Safeair in NZ operated them but they were not ex military.Zantop was an American user as was Riddle.
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Argosy, Bristol Frightener & Safe Air
Further to my earlier Argosy (bless it !) posts, I have a copy of the VHS video:
"Forty Years of Bristol & Argosy Freighters with Safe Air"
Which has been in my collection (smoke & pet free home , never played) for disposal for a modest sum plus postage anybody interested please send me a message, hope this is allowed & won't get moderator removed.
Also is the Argosy at Cosford really XP411 or another airframe made from bits ? seem to remember that during the early period a couple of airframes (think at Biteswell) were dismantled to carry out fatigue, corrosion checks before returning to service, think XN847 & 849 might have been involved or other early serialed number airframes, 847 & 849 were used as the two trial aircraft at Benson prior to 105 going to K'Sar, anybody help ?. Rgds PH.
"Forty Years of Bristol & Argosy Freighters with Safe Air"
Which has been in my collection (smoke & pet free home , never played) for disposal for a modest sum plus postage anybody interested please send me a message, hope this is allowed & won't get moderator removed.
Also is the Argosy at Cosford really XP411 or another airframe made from bits ? seem to remember that during the early period a couple of airframes (think at Biteswell) were dismantled to carry out fatigue, corrosion checks before returning to service, think XN847 & 849 might have been involved or other early serialed number airframes, 847 & 849 were used as the two trial aircraft at Benson prior to 105 going to K'Sar, anybody help ?. Rgds PH.
I've been off the air for a few days.
Brakedwell:
Many thanks JJ for your video. I was Orderly Officer at Benson on Christmas Eve when it started to snow and the airfield was still shut two months later due to some spectacularly stupid decisions made at high level.
Stackedup:
I'm afraid you have lost me. We had XP444 on 267 Squadron and I first flew it on 17 December 1962 with Wg Cdr Alec Steedman who was O.C. 267 Sqn.
ICM:
Ah!!!!!! The dreaded Bahrain Overflight!!!!!!
Or, what was more commonly known as the "Marie Celeste".
We used to get airborne from Khormaksar, not long before sunset, and set off down the ADR (Advisory Route for the youngsters among you) for about 100 miles to position LAVA and then set off in a north-easterly direction across the mountains and the Wadi Hadraumat and so into the Rub al Khali (The Empty Quarter) for about four hours eventually emerging with the aid of a single Doppler and a trusty navigator somewhere round about Tarif heading for Doha for Bahrain. Inshallah.
We then did a one and a half hour turnaround and repeated the exercise southbound. The sun used to come up around LAVA if all had gone well and the new day was celebrated in Neddy's Bar.
I have looked in my logbook and I see it was XP411 (now at Cosford) and I have Big Andy as the nav northbound and you as the nav southbound so I guess it was a route check for you guys.
I don't actually remember the "prop overspeed" scenario, but the Trapper used to ask us to have a practice emergency.
The funniest one that I ever got involved in was with 53 Sqn on the Belfast.
Brakedwell:
Many thanks JJ for your video. I was Orderly Officer at Benson on Christmas Eve when it started to snow and the airfield was still shut two months later due to some spectacularly stupid decisions made at high level.
Stackedup:
I'm afraid you have lost me. We had XP444 on 267 Squadron and I first flew it on 17 December 1962 with Wg Cdr Alec Steedman who was O.C. 267 Sqn.
ICM:
Ah!!!!!! The dreaded Bahrain Overflight!!!!!!
Or, what was more commonly known as the "Marie Celeste".
We used to get airborne from Khormaksar, not long before sunset, and set off down the ADR (Advisory Route for the youngsters among you) for about 100 miles to position LAVA and then set off in a north-easterly direction across the mountains and the Wadi Hadraumat and so into the Rub al Khali (The Empty Quarter) for about four hours eventually emerging with the aid of a single Doppler and a trusty navigator somewhere round about Tarif heading for Doha for Bahrain. Inshallah.
We then did a one and a half hour turnaround and repeated the exercise southbound. The sun used to come up around LAVA if all had gone well and the new day was celebrated in Neddy's Bar.
I have looked in my logbook and I see it was XP411 (now at Cosford) and I have Big Andy as the nav northbound and you as the nav southbound so I guess it was a route check for you guys.
I don't actually remember the "prop overspeed" scenario, but the Trapper used to ask us to have a practice emergency.
The funniest one that I ever got involved in was with 53 Sqn on the Belfast.
JW411
During my time on 105 the direct (5 hr) Khormaksar - Muharraq passenger schedule that overflew Saudi Arabia was an all day affair. The extended turnaround allowed enough time to grab a taxi to the Manama fish Market and buy ten pounds of big juicy prawns. As they were uncooked Paddy Whelan, my loadmaster, boiled them all in the hot cup on the way home, otherwise they would have gone off! The smell in the cabin was most embarrassing!
I had a strange experience on one return flight. It was dark when we left Bahrain passing over Doha in the climb to flight level 200. The sky was clear and the stars were twinkling brightly. At around FL150 we ran into severe clear air turbulence, it only lasted a few minutes, but was very choppy. Once we levelled off the navigator set up his sextant to take a TOC fix.
"I can't see any stars," he exclaimed.
"They were up there a few minutes ago," I responded, leaning closer to the windscreen. Sure enough the sky was pitch black, while down below a multitude of lights stretched along the Qatar peninsular as far as the eye could see. The pattern of lights was vaguely familiar, much like the stars. Surreptitiously, I lifted my cigarette packet, which was lying on my cup holder, and dropped it to confirm we were the right way up!
A few minutes later we ran into another short spell of turbulence. At the same time the galaxy of lights sitting on the desert slowly rose to their rightful place in the sky.
I visited the Met Office at Khormaksar the following day and described the experience. Apparently, warm air from the Saudi desert funnels down the Qatar Peninsular, lying above the cooler gulf air and causing a powerful inversions. The resulting refraction would explain the star phenomenon.
During my time on 105 the direct (5 hr) Khormaksar - Muharraq passenger schedule that overflew Saudi Arabia was an all day affair. The extended turnaround allowed enough time to grab a taxi to the Manama fish Market and buy ten pounds of big juicy prawns. As they were uncooked Paddy Whelan, my loadmaster, boiled them all in the hot cup on the way home, otherwise they would have gone off! The smell in the cabin was most embarrassing!
I had a strange experience on one return flight. It was dark when we left Bahrain passing over Doha in the climb to flight level 200. The sky was clear and the stars were twinkling brightly. At around FL150 we ran into severe clear air turbulence, it only lasted a few minutes, but was very choppy. Once we levelled off the navigator set up his sextant to take a TOC fix.
"I can't see any stars," he exclaimed.
"They were up there a few minutes ago," I responded, leaning closer to the windscreen. Sure enough the sky was pitch black, while down below a multitude of lights stretched along the Qatar peninsular as far as the eye could see. The pattern of lights was vaguely familiar, much like the stars. Surreptitiously, I lifted my cigarette packet, which was lying on my cup holder, and dropped it to confirm we were the right way up!
A few minutes later we ran into another short spell of turbulence. At the same time the galaxy of lights sitting on the desert slowly rose to their rightful place in the sky.
I visited the Met Office at Khormaksar the following day and described the experience. Apparently, warm air from the Saudi desert funnels down the Qatar Peninsular, lying above the cooler gulf air and causing a powerful inversions. The resulting refraction would explain the star phenomenon.
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What a brilliant thread. I well remember the Argosy that went in at Stansted in 1967 as at that time I lived locally. After school I would cycle to the airport and meet up with friends to watch the crew training circuits taking place - Eagle Britannias, BOAC VC10s and 707s, sometimes a BEA Vanguard, and even the infrequent scheduled services (most of which were Channel Airways). Stansted was a very different, dare I say nicer, place then - where you could spend a very pleasant sunny evening on the grass at the end of the runway without anyone disturbing you.
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JW 411
I was referring to when XP444 was the personal a/c of JEJ C in C MEAF . I saw inside once when it was u/s at Luqa and you would not know it was an aircraft ! Bit like TQF
I was referring to when XP444 was the personal a/c of JEJ C in C MEAF . I saw inside once when it was u/s at Luqa and you would not know it was an aircraft ! Bit like TQF
Strange, I flew Johnnie Johnson to Nairobi and Addis Ababa a couple of times. There was no dedicated VIP Argosy in Aden and the VIP fit could be described as comfortable rather than luxurious.
"....we left Bahrain passing over Doha in the climb to flight level 200..." Would that had been possible! A small typo, perhaps? I can't even recall getting to FL 200 with a load anywhere over Europe and, indeed, I've always felt that it was the need to use the Argosy as a baby Britannia in the Middle East (and I dare say, the Far East) that wrecked its reputation. Around 1973-74, when I found myself involved in tasking the AT force, it would have been ideal for many of the Army's op BANNER moves in/out of Aldergrove, but by then it was too late.
As for 444, Mike Seller once gave me a quick tour of CinC NEAF's aircraft at Akrotiri, and it looked like no other in the force. A real custom job and very smooth, indeed!
Edit: NEAF, not MEAF! And I think there's a picture of Mike and crew in front of the aircraft on the ARDET website.
As for 444, Mike Seller once gave me a quick tour of CinC NEAF's aircraft at Akrotiri, and it looked like no other in the force. A real custom job and very smooth, indeed!
Edit: NEAF, not MEAF! And I think there's a picture of Mike and crew in front of the aircraft on the ARDET website.
Last edited by ICM; 20th Feb 2011 at 11:49.