The "Whistling wheelbarrow"
Two more Wheelbarrow (BEA version) stories. Can't vouch for the veracity of either:
(i) Milan Linate to Heathrow. SOP was to climb in the hold at Trezzo VOR up to MSA (FL180) & then set course across the Alps. On one occasion an Argosy gets to MSA & then a donk packs up. So they spiral back down again in the TZO hold & land back at Linate. About an hour, then, to go from MXP to nowhere & back again. We fared better in the Guardsvan – only once round the TZO hold was usually required for adequate terrain clearance.
(ii) An Argosy is overflying Paris when a prop overspeeds. Before the crew can respond the prop disintegrates & knocks out the adjacent engine. Previous posts have referred to the (non) perf of the Barrow with two out on one side. The crew divert to Paris. At the subsequent court martial it is suggested to the Capt that he was too slow in initiating the overspeed drill & shutdown.
'Can you remember your first response when you realised a prop was overspeeding?' asked the inquisitor.
'Yes, I remember clearly,' responds the Capt. 'My first action was to stub out my cigar.'
(i) Milan Linate to Heathrow. SOP was to climb in the hold at Trezzo VOR up to MSA (FL180) & then set course across the Alps. On one occasion an Argosy gets to MSA & then a donk packs up. So they spiral back down again in the TZO hold & land back at Linate. About an hour, then, to go from MXP to nowhere & back again. We fared better in the Guardsvan – only once round the TZO hold was usually required for adequate terrain clearance.
(ii) An Argosy is overflying Paris when a prop overspeeds. Before the crew can respond the prop disintegrates & knocks out the adjacent engine. Previous posts have referred to the (non) perf of the Barrow with two out on one side. The crew divert to Paris. At the subsequent court martial it is suggested to the Capt that he was too slow in initiating the overspeed drill & shutdown.
'Can you remember your first response when you realised a prop was overspeeding?' asked the inquisitor.
'Yes, I remember clearly,' responds the Capt. 'My first action was to stub out my cigar.'
Firq Valetta
Jock, when I first saw the remains of the Valetta in August 1959 a witness to the accident told me it ran over a land mine. A common occurrence in those days, not only on the Firq strips, but also along the road to the Northern Frontier camp at Nizwa. Being a coward who valued his crown jewels I always flew the Tin Pin to the 300 yd strip inside the camp at the end of the day, if we were forced to night stop at the bottom of the Jebel. Saiq was a much nicer option, although officially we were not allowed to shut down engines up there in case they failed to start again. The NFR Major in charge was a very hospitable ex SAS veteran called John Cooper, who was David Stirling's driver in North Africa during WW2. I will always remember the cold beer, wild strawberries and tales of daring do in the deserts of N Africa and the jungles of Malaya.
Thanx F40. Unforgiveable error! Did enough LINs in the Vibrator - should have known better! Can remember the c/s though - BE2121 out & 2122 back. Or it might have been 2120 out & 2121 back or . . . wha'ever.
Last edited by Discorde; 1st Mar 2011 at 18:44.
Discorde: Regrettably, I can't comment on what happened at any subsequent investigation, but I happened to be on a flight back to Benson, passing Paris, as the BEA aircraft made its Emergency call and began its diversion. My recollection of a piece in 'Flight' reporting the incident a week or two later is that the sheered-off prop (or bits of it) also hit the top of the flight deck before disappearing into some Parisian suburb .... probably pretty much where, as Nav, I sat in the RAF version!
JW411 - re. the Valetta at Firq - 78Sqn?? Possibly, but when I left Aden Valettas in Jan '58 we were operating as 84 Sqn, having migrated through Aden Comms Sqn and Aden Protectorate Comms and Support Sqn ... phew! a mouthful. 78, at that time were operating Twin Pins and (possibly, still) Singles.
Cornish Jack:
In mitigation, my information came from the Air-Britain publication SA100-VZ999. This gives the history of VW817 as:
"RAFFC/114/78 Tyre burst on landing; swung off runway and tipped up, Firq, Oman, 14.01.59".
Now this information comes from the Aircraft Data Card (Form 78) which are quite often less than accurate especially when overseas squadrons are involved.
As a result of your comment, I have done some digging and the answer is as clear as mud!
I started with "Scorpions Sting" the story of 84 Sqn by Don Neate. VW817 is not listed as being an 84 Sqn aircraft nor is there any mention of the accident at Firq in the text.
He does give us a couple of clues:
"In May 1958 the arrival of the first two Beverlys on the station meant a gradual decline of the Valetta flights. Sqn Ldr Bill Talbot DFC and bar writes 'The position of Harry Guile and myself as "joint" COs was grey to say the least. The unfortunate thing was that the Beverlys did not get going for some months due to persistent engine problems. The future of the Valettas was chewed over until it was finally decided to extend their lives in Aden. We were more or less regarded as 84 Squadron "A" and "B" Flights and the situation was finally resolved by the reforming of No.233 Squadron with 84's flight of Valettas, which were eventually retired in 1964 when No.233 Sqn was disbanded".
Later on we get "Sqn Ldr Bill Talbot DFC remained in charge of the Valettas until April 1959 when they were handed over to No.233 Squadron...."
I think you are right about 78 Sqn. I have a reference saying that they reformed in Aden with Pioneers on 15.04.56. Twin Pins followed in October 1958.
To further confuse the issue, "Broken Wings" attributes the accident to 84 Sqn!
So, to recap it would appear that VW817 was still issued officially on its aircraft record card to 78 Sqn. It can't be put down to 233 Sqn because the accident happened before they reformed.
By default, it would therefore have to be an 84 Sqn event although they never officially owned the aeroplane and make no mention of the loss in their history!
Actually, none of this surprises me in the slightest. I was Orederly Officer in Muharraq one day and I was told to go and check 30 Sqn's main inventory. I came back after a couple of hours and filled in the paperwork. I declared them to be 3 Beverleys deficient and 2 Beverleys surplus.
I was told by some po-faced pillock that I couldn't do that. "They simply cannot have lost three Beverleys!!!" I then asked him why it was that I had just wasted my morning on a pointless exercise if he didn't want to hear the truth!
Of course, 3 of the aircraft had been sent down to Aden to keep 84 up to strength and 2 others had been scrounged from somewhere else.
Simples, as they say nowadays.
I should be very grateful if you ever find out who really owned VW817.
In mitigation, my information came from the Air-Britain publication SA100-VZ999. This gives the history of VW817 as:
"RAFFC/114/78 Tyre burst on landing; swung off runway and tipped up, Firq, Oman, 14.01.59".
Now this information comes from the Aircraft Data Card (Form 78) which are quite often less than accurate especially when overseas squadrons are involved.
As a result of your comment, I have done some digging and the answer is as clear as mud!
I started with "Scorpions Sting" the story of 84 Sqn by Don Neate. VW817 is not listed as being an 84 Sqn aircraft nor is there any mention of the accident at Firq in the text.
He does give us a couple of clues:
"In May 1958 the arrival of the first two Beverlys on the station meant a gradual decline of the Valetta flights. Sqn Ldr Bill Talbot DFC and bar writes 'The position of Harry Guile and myself as "joint" COs was grey to say the least. The unfortunate thing was that the Beverlys did not get going for some months due to persistent engine problems. The future of the Valettas was chewed over until it was finally decided to extend their lives in Aden. We were more or less regarded as 84 Squadron "A" and "B" Flights and the situation was finally resolved by the reforming of No.233 Squadron with 84's flight of Valettas, which were eventually retired in 1964 when No.233 Sqn was disbanded".
Later on we get "Sqn Ldr Bill Talbot DFC remained in charge of the Valettas until April 1959 when they were handed over to No.233 Squadron...."
I think you are right about 78 Sqn. I have a reference saying that they reformed in Aden with Pioneers on 15.04.56. Twin Pins followed in October 1958.
To further confuse the issue, "Broken Wings" attributes the accident to 84 Sqn!
So, to recap it would appear that VW817 was still issued officially on its aircraft record card to 78 Sqn. It can't be put down to 233 Sqn because the accident happened before they reformed.
By default, it would therefore have to be an 84 Sqn event although they never officially owned the aeroplane and make no mention of the loss in their history!
Actually, none of this surprises me in the slightest. I was Orederly Officer in Muharraq one day and I was told to go and check 30 Sqn's main inventory. I came back after a couple of hours and filled in the paperwork. I declared them to be 3 Beverleys deficient and 2 Beverleys surplus.
I was told by some po-faced pillock that I couldn't do that. "They simply cannot have lost three Beverleys!!!" I then asked him why it was that I had just wasted my morning on a pointless exercise if he didn't want to hear the truth!
Of course, 3 of the aircraft had been sent down to Aden to keep 84 up to strength and 2 others had been scrounged from somewhere else.
Simples, as they say nowadays.
I should be very grateful if you ever find out who really owned VW817.
Andover XS611 landing at Salalah. SOAF Beaver on the right.
Curtiss C-46 Commando N9588Z at Salalah. She was part of the fleet of the JW Mecom Oil Company based at Midway/Thumrait up on the jebel north of Salalah. The star of the fleet was Douglas B-23 Dragon N86E. There was also a Lockheed Lodestar N5231N and two Fairchild C-82 Packets N127E and N128E. The latter aircraft was shot down by Migs over Egypt when it was caught in Egyptian airspace without diplomatic clearance.
Anyway, when I took this photograph, the starter motor on the port engine of the Commando was broken. Two chaps are pulling the prop through whilst the guy in the cockpit is priming the engine. A short time later, the askaris who can be seen on the left were co-opted to pull on a rope with a bit of sacking on the end and attached to one of the propeller blades and told to run. The engine started straight away!
JW411, thank you for the clarification(?) - as you say, difficult to follow which and what was where
Can't find 817 in my logbook although a couple of the 800 series appear regularly. Valettas being reduced to spare parts in the Protectorate was sufficiently frequent not to warrant much excitement!! One of my contemporaries managed to be involved in no less than six crashes during his two year tour!! His emergency drills were immaculate!!
817's missing wheel is reminescent of a sister aircraft at an E African airfield with Wing Pilot and Flt Cdr sharing the front seats. A Valetta 'arrival' was ever a matter of chance and on this one the bounce was aided by an undulating runway. At the top of the bounce, a round black object was seen preceding them down the runway and the final contact was noisy and slewed. My mate was on board AGAIN and departed the scene, upwind, hotly pursued by the Nav. Some minutes passed and no sign of the pilots, so a CAUTIOUS return was made. Missing pair were, apparently, still ensconced and discussing likely cause of the detached wheel!!
My own one and only was at Beihan in 165 ending up with a missing tail wheel and cracked main spar and a bemused Dutch newsman who had assumed all arrivals were similarly untidy!! The remains were later converted into a combined Mess. That it was considered 'par for the course' is indicated by the logbook entry NOT being annotated - just a different airframe and 'passenger duty' for the return to K'sar.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Can't find 817 in my logbook although a couple of the 800 series appear regularly. Valettas being reduced to spare parts in the Protectorate was sufficiently frequent not to warrant much excitement!! One of my contemporaries managed to be involved in no less than six crashes during his two year tour!! His emergency drills were immaculate!!
817's missing wheel is reminescent of a sister aircraft at an E African airfield with Wing Pilot and Flt Cdr sharing the front seats. A Valetta 'arrival' was ever a matter of chance and on this one the bounce was aided by an undulating runway. At the top of the bounce, a round black object was seen preceding them down the runway and the final contact was noisy and slewed. My mate was on board AGAIN and departed the scene, upwind, hotly pursued by the Nav. Some minutes passed and no sign of the pilots, so a CAUTIOUS return was made. Missing pair were, apparently, still ensconced and discussing likely cause of the detached wheel!!
My own one and only was at Beihan in 165 ending up with a missing tail wheel and cracked main spar and a bemused Dutch newsman who had assumed all arrivals were similarly untidy!! The remains were later converted into a combined Mess. That it was considered 'par for the course' is indicated by the logbook entry NOT being annotated - just a different airframe and 'passenger duty' for the return to K'sar.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Thanks, Jock, it was always interesting to see any of those MECOM aircraft during turnrounds at Salalah. Forever afterwards I felt convinced that one of them must have been bought for use in "Flight of the Phoenix," but a bit of googling has just told me otherwise. Seems the film came out in '65, before I went out to Aden and 105. I had slides of them all at one time, unfortunately long lost now.
the askaris who can be seen on the left were co-opted to pull on a rope with a bit of sacking on the end and attached to one of the propeller blades and told to run. The engine started straight away!
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Here's your Douglas Dragon. A full life indeed. 
I don't know why the clappy thing is in there.
File
ouglas B-23 N86E Athens 220473-1-.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
... and the aircraft you mentioned are here
Khormaksar civilian aircraft
I don't know why the clappy thing is in there.
File
ouglas B-23 N86E Athens 220473-1-.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... and the aircraft you mentioned are here
Khormaksar civilian aircraft
Cornish Jack:
When I came out of flying training and was posted on to the Argosy, I would normally have gone to No.242 OCU which was based at Thorney Island which was already equipped with Hastings and Beverley aircraft.
However, the Argosy was a new bit of kit so the aircraft were actually at Benson.
But, and it was a large but, we had to do the Transport Command ground school at Thorney Island. My undying memory was of the Met lecturer who was a dour Scot called Mr. Cruikshank and he could bang on for a whole afternoon about how the Gregale wind could affect the northern Med in the winter. It would be fair to say that staying awake after lunch in the mess and after a few beers was quite impossible.
Anyway, the photograph above is of No. 101 Transport Command Course and you will see that we had a couple of Valetta guys on our course even then.
By the way, the rest of us became No.5 Argosy Course at Benson.
Last edited by JW411; 5th Mar 2011 at 13:26.
bral:
The Argosy always had a LOX tank. In fact, I think I am right in saying that the Britannia and the Comet and possibly even the VC-10 in Transport Command also had LOX. The thinking at the time was that a small LOX tank could supply oxygen more efficiently than carting dozens of 750 lt bottles around the world.
The big problem was that there were not too many places in the world that had LOX replenishment trolleys. I can tell a funny story of getting to Lajes one night having been down to Ascension Island and various West African destinations. We needed LOX. The flight engineer stayed behind to sort the problem out. It was usually a USAF problem but this night he got the Portugeuse Air Force trolley. After 30 minutes, it had gobbled up the last of the LOX left in the aircraft tank!
The USAF came to the rescue with one of their trolleys but with typical Health and Safety zeal, they left the F/E in charge of the trolley! The inevitable happened and when the safety valve blew and he wanted to run, he found his shoes very firmly frozen to the ramp so he had to stand there and watch everything happen under his nose.
My favourite LOX story involves a famous Argosy Master Loadmaster. He had at one time been in the Navy as a gunner, but apart from his great loadmastering skills, he made "legendary sandwiches".
One day we were at Firq with two other Argosys moving troops and their bangers for Sultan Qabus down to Salalah. I would imagine that the OAT was around 40* degrees celsius. We had been on the ground for about three hours.
We finally got airborne and Tatty Bill asked me if I would like a sandwich. To do this I had to go downstairs and sit at the ALM's table duly decorated with a checked tablecloth and silver cutlery etc.
The sandwich duly arrived surrounded by the usual finery. I congratulated your man and asked him how it was that the butter in his sandwiches was always beautifully cold and crisp and not running like it usually was in that part of the world.
"It's easy, said Tatty Bill, I just put my butter on top of the frozen tank in the nose".
Now those of you who know the devastating results of liquid oxygen coming in contact with any form of grease will raise your eyes to heaven!
I can remember in later life hearing about the AA DC-10 co-pilot who had a moustache. He took a breath of O2 after his lunch and the butter remnants on his moustache caught fire and he burned 50% of his lungs out.
Finally, the most dangerous thing that we ever carried on the Argosy was a mobile LOX Plant. Every time the Hunter squadrons went on detachment to Masirah etc from Aden or Bahrain, a mobile Liquid Oxygen plant had to be delivered.
They were mounted upon MSP platforms sitting on a roller conveyor floor with side guidance complete with extractor chute etc. The LOX plant was vented to atmosphere through two fuselage points considerately provided by MOD and the manufacturers.
In order to carry a mobile LOX plant we were required to visit the station gas plant where we were given demonstrations about what happens to a banana or a hammer when it has been immersed in liquid oxygen. They freeze very rapidly and shatter into a million pieces.
So the big problem with a mobile LOX plant was that if it started to malfunction, the whole floor of the aeroplane would very rapidly crystalise and fall out of the bottom of what was left of the aeroplane.
So it was that we had the bloody things mounted on an MSP so, if the LOX expert that we carried with us said "Go" then whoever happened to be below the aircraft found themselves the proud possesser of a fully malfunctioning mobile LOX plant!
I wonder how many LOX plants BEA carried in their Argosys?
The Argosy always had a LOX tank. In fact, I think I am right in saying that the Britannia and the Comet and possibly even the VC-10 in Transport Command also had LOX. The thinking at the time was that a small LOX tank could supply oxygen more efficiently than carting dozens of 750 lt bottles around the world.
The big problem was that there were not too many places in the world that had LOX replenishment trolleys. I can tell a funny story of getting to Lajes one night having been down to Ascension Island and various West African destinations. We needed LOX. The flight engineer stayed behind to sort the problem out. It was usually a USAF problem but this night he got the Portugeuse Air Force trolley. After 30 minutes, it had gobbled up the last of the LOX left in the aircraft tank!
The USAF came to the rescue with one of their trolleys but with typical Health and Safety zeal, they left the F/E in charge of the trolley! The inevitable happened and when the safety valve blew and he wanted to run, he found his shoes very firmly frozen to the ramp so he had to stand there and watch everything happen under his nose.
My favourite LOX story involves a famous Argosy Master Loadmaster. He had at one time been in the Navy as a gunner, but apart from his great loadmastering skills, he made "legendary sandwiches".
One day we were at Firq with two other Argosys moving troops and their bangers for Sultan Qabus down to Salalah. I would imagine that the OAT was around 40* degrees celsius. We had been on the ground for about three hours.
We finally got airborne and Tatty Bill asked me if I would like a sandwich. To do this I had to go downstairs and sit at the ALM's table duly decorated with a checked tablecloth and silver cutlery etc.
The sandwich duly arrived surrounded by the usual finery. I congratulated your man and asked him how it was that the butter in his sandwiches was always beautifully cold and crisp and not running like it usually was in that part of the world.
"It's easy, said Tatty Bill, I just put my butter on top of the frozen tank in the nose".
Now those of you who know the devastating results of liquid oxygen coming in contact with any form of grease will raise your eyes to heaven!
I can remember in later life hearing about the AA DC-10 co-pilot who had a moustache. He took a breath of O2 after his lunch and the butter remnants on his moustache caught fire and he burned 50% of his lungs out.
Finally, the most dangerous thing that we ever carried on the Argosy was a mobile LOX Plant. Every time the Hunter squadrons went on detachment to Masirah etc from Aden or Bahrain, a mobile Liquid Oxygen plant had to be delivered.
They were mounted upon MSP platforms sitting on a roller conveyor floor with side guidance complete with extractor chute etc. The LOX plant was vented to atmosphere through two fuselage points considerately provided by MOD and the manufacturers.
In order to carry a mobile LOX plant we were required to visit the station gas plant where we were given demonstrations about what happens to a banana or a hammer when it has been immersed in liquid oxygen. They freeze very rapidly and shatter into a million pieces.
So the big problem with a mobile LOX plant was that if it started to malfunction, the whole floor of the aeroplane would very rapidly crystalise and fall out of the bottom of what was left of the aeroplane.
So it was that we had the bloody things mounted on an MSP so, if the LOX expert that we carried with us said "Go" then whoever happened to be below the aircraft found themselves the proud possesser of a fully malfunctioning mobile LOX plant!
I wonder how many LOX plants BEA carried in their Argosys?
Cornish Jack:
I cocked up the attachment of the photograph to Post #222. In mitigation, I am new to this photo posting game and I do promise to buck up! Anyway, it's up there now.
bral:
Most of the gliders on my gliding club were equipped with A12A regulators liberated from Argosys that had reached the end of their lives. It was a bloody good regulator.
I cocked up the attachment of the photograph to Post #222. In mitigation, I am new to this photo posting game and I do promise to buck up! Anyway, it's up there now.
bral:
Most of the gliders on my gliding club were equipped with A12A regulators liberated from Argosys that had reached the end of their lives. It was a bloody good regulator.
Last edited by JW411; 4th Mar 2011 at 13:40.
Mr Cruckshank (sp?)
I remember he was known for allocating marks in the met exam by rank; so Wg Cdr T got 95%,Sqn Ldr C 90% etc down to us lowly Plt Offs who just scraped a pass.
I can still just mimic him saying ' the highest wind speed recorded at Kai Tak was in 1937(?) before the anemometer blow away'.
I can still just mimic him saying ' the highest wind speed recorded at Kai Tak was in 1937(?) before the anemometer blow away'.
JW Mecom Oil Company:
So, having opened up this particular can of worms, here are some photographs taken at Sharjah in 1970 when Mecom decided to move out of Oman. I think they were looking for oil in the Wadi Mugshin area to the north and east of Salalah with not a huge amount of luck.
The idea was to fly the aircraft back to Texas but it didn't quite work out that way. The Lodestar didn't even make it past Sharjah and it ended up in a local scrapyard.
The B-23 and the C-82 made it as far as Athens before the crews lost their sense of humour. They (the aircraft) were moved to a local technical college after a couple of years but have both been scrapped as far as I am aware.
The C-46 Commando was the only one that made it back to the USA.
Incidentally, I had half a dozen good shots of the B-23 Dragon N86E. I loaned them to a fellow Air-Britain enthusiast who wrote an article about the B-23 and he used a couple of my photographs in his article. I am quite sure that he sent them all back to me and I put them "somewhere safe".
That is the problem with getting old; the "somewhere safe" depositorys are becoming more and more difficult to find!
So, having opened up this particular can of worms, here are some photographs taken at Sharjah in 1970 when Mecom decided to move out of Oman. I think they were looking for oil in the Wadi Mugshin area to the north and east of Salalah with not a huge amount of luck.
The idea was to fly the aircraft back to Texas but it didn't quite work out that way. The Lodestar didn't even make it past Sharjah and it ended up in a local scrapyard.
The B-23 and the C-82 made it as far as Athens before the crews lost their sense of humour. They (the aircraft) were moved to a local technical college after a couple of years but have both been scrapped as far as I am aware.
The C-46 Commando was the only one that made it back to the USA.
Incidentally, I had half a dozen good shots of the B-23 Dragon N86E. I loaned them to a fellow Air-Britain enthusiast who wrote an article about the B-23 and he used a couple of my photographs in his article. I am quite sure that he sent them all back to me and I put them "somewhere safe".
That is the problem with getting old; the "somewhere safe" depositorys are becoming more and more difficult to find!