The "Whistling wheelbarrow"
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When I started this thread, I said I would post links to my three other photos of Argosies. Well, sorry, I forgot, but here they are.
Firstly, a civil machine, preserved at the Midlands Air Museum at Coventry airport:
JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-APRL (CN: 6652) Private Armstrong Whitworth 650 Argosy by Michael Blank
Secondly, another civil example, photographed in 1974:
ABC Argosy at Castle Donington 16-3-74 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
And finally, a military example, preserved at Cosford:
ScanImage16 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Firstly, a civil machine, preserved at the Midlands Air Museum at Coventry airport:
JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-APRL (CN: 6652) Private Armstrong Whitworth 650 Argosy by Michael Blank
Secondly, another civil example, photographed in 1974:
ABC Argosy at Castle Donington 16-3-74 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
And finally, a military example, preserved at Cosford:
ScanImage16 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Looking back to look forward
Well, this was what was being promised - Ads in 'Flying Review' magazine of 1959-60 vintage.
First, the "Prop-Jet Freightercoach"
And then "The Transport for the Missile Age"
I think they worked out OK.
First, the "Prop-Jet Freightercoach"
And then "The Transport for the Missile Age"
I think they worked out OK.
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On holiday in NZ at the moment and passed as preserved Argosy 200 series outside a cafe just by the RNZAF base at Woodbourne near Blenheim. Thw owners of the cafe opened it up for me and the requested donation was $2!!
The fit out was interesting in that it had a freight bay forward and a pax capsule inserted into the back end.
Will post photos when I get back to Oz
The fit out was interesting in that it had a freight bay forward and a pax capsule inserted into the back end.
Will post photos when I get back to Oz
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Thar she blows
Further to my earlier post XP413 sat in the water at K/Sar, my copy of the Dhow newspaper shows the picture with the heading "Stranded Whale in Adens Waters" , we quickly had it towed back to the Marine Craft section & dismantled for shipping back to the UK as deck cargo on the P & O Oriana, has anybody got a picture of it on the deck ?. Rgds, Paul H.
I flew the Argosy in the RAF for 10 years (1962-1971). I ended up on 105 Sqn in Aden but I wasn't actually there when XP413 ended up in the water on short finals to runway 08 at Khormaksar.
There has been lots of discussion about what went wrong up front with the check captain, the captain, the F/O and the F/E so I will not go down that road.
What was intersting was the navigator's story. TD was on the same commissioning course as me at South Cerney in 1960. I seem to remember that he became the youngest commissioned officer in the (peacetime) RAF. He was 17 years old.
The day that they ended up in the water in Aden was pretty interesting from his point of view. The cockpit escape hatch (see the photograph) was right above the navigator's table. Taff refused to accept the fact that they had actually ditched (he was facing backwards) until the rest of the crew started to stand on his fingers as they went out.
When he finally followed them, they were all sitting in one of the MS26 dinghies that were stored in the wings. Unfortunately, the dinghy had inflated inside the booms of the aircraft so they were sat there in their own personal swimming pool surrounded by airframe.
So Taff stood on the wing and persuaded them that they really needed to get out and re-launch the dinghy away from the airframe. (By the way, you will astonished to learn that an MS26 dinghy held 26 survivors and was rather large and bloody heavy).
So they all sat there in their MS26 watching XP413 and it showed no signs of sinking. It slowly dawned on them that the bottom of the fuselage was already on the bottom. Whereupon, the chief cheerleader from the front got it in his mind that they should start saving as many radios and navaids from the radio rack upstairs as they could as this might help ameliorate the punishment to come from "the subsequent court martial".
Now any of you who have ever been in a dinghy will know that there is no such thing as a dry dinghy. There will ALWAYS be water in the bottom. So it was that all of the radios etc were completely ruined.
From Taff's point of view, his biggest item was the periscopic sextant. He handed it over the side to one of his friends who promptly dropped it and it is still (presumably) on the sea bed.
XP413 was towed to the Khormaksar Marine Craft Unit and dismantled. It was taken home and rebuilt and became the Argosy that used to resupply all the British embassies in Russia etc. As a celebration of its hisory, a Plimsoll line was painted on each side the forward fuselage.
Sad to report, Taff eventually remustered as a pilot and ended up as a captain with Britannia Airways. He fell off his perch about 10 years or so ago and is no longer with us.
There has been lots of discussion about what went wrong up front with the check captain, the captain, the F/O and the F/E so I will not go down that road.
What was intersting was the navigator's story. TD was on the same commissioning course as me at South Cerney in 1960. I seem to remember that he became the youngest commissioned officer in the (peacetime) RAF. He was 17 years old.
The day that they ended up in the water in Aden was pretty interesting from his point of view. The cockpit escape hatch (see the photograph) was right above the navigator's table. Taff refused to accept the fact that they had actually ditched (he was facing backwards) until the rest of the crew started to stand on his fingers as they went out.
When he finally followed them, they were all sitting in one of the MS26 dinghies that were stored in the wings. Unfortunately, the dinghy had inflated inside the booms of the aircraft so they were sat there in their own personal swimming pool surrounded by airframe.
So Taff stood on the wing and persuaded them that they really needed to get out and re-launch the dinghy away from the airframe. (By the way, you will astonished to learn that an MS26 dinghy held 26 survivors and was rather large and bloody heavy).
So they all sat there in their MS26 watching XP413 and it showed no signs of sinking. It slowly dawned on them that the bottom of the fuselage was already on the bottom. Whereupon, the chief cheerleader from the front got it in his mind that they should start saving as many radios and navaids from the radio rack upstairs as they could as this might help ameliorate the punishment to come from "the subsequent court martial".
Now any of you who have ever been in a dinghy will know that there is no such thing as a dry dinghy. There will ALWAYS be water in the bottom. So it was that all of the radios etc were completely ruined.
From Taff's point of view, his biggest item was the periscopic sextant. He handed it over the side to one of his friends who promptly dropped it and it is still (presumably) on the sea bed.
XP413 was towed to the Khormaksar Marine Craft Unit and dismantled. It was taken home and rebuilt and became the Argosy that used to resupply all the British embassies in Russia etc. As a celebration of its hisory, a Plimsoll line was painted on each side the forward fuselage.
Sad to report, Taff eventually remustered as a pilot and ended up as a captain with Britannia Airways. He fell off his perch about 10 years or so ago and is no longer with us.
Shortly after 413 splashed in, it was still in the water, I was approaching Khormaksa in a Valiant. On short finals just before we passed over it we hit a GODALMIGHTY downdraft; something that could be described as a violent downburst.
It took a considerable handful of Avons to check the descent; maybe four Darts couldn't.
It took a considerable handful of Avons to check the descent; maybe four Darts couldn't.
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4 Avons or 4 Darts
Maybe 4 Avons saved the day for you but the 2 (two) Darts didn't & a fully loaded concrete ballasted XP 413 Argosy on 2 just won't stay airborne, it had a struggle on 4, we had RDA7 Darts on introduction to service, believe it was later fitted with higher power RDA8's (any body confirm ?) it wasn't exactly a sparkling performer, water meth was used every take off & filling that tank was a right pain in the arse although in Aden we had local labour for those jobs it wasn't until late 63 that we eventually got a water meth bowser with a "donkey" engine to pump it in, 75 gallons if memory serves, tank in the starboard boom balancing out the Rover APU in the port boom, oh what fun we had, rgds PH.
I was not aware that the RAF Argosy was ever fitted with the Dart Da.7. I was on No.5 Course in 1962 and all aircraft were already fitted with Dart Da.8s. What it really needed were Da.10s or Da.12s with reversing propellers.
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Argosy Darts
JW411, apologies it did as you say have RDA8's, my reason for thinking "7's" is I have my original Dart Notes & a RR Dart RDA7 factory manual ?? which were supplied on the works course for the Argosy, I read in the notes the later models & the proposed Argosy 200 were designed around RDA10's, , am getting confused in old age it is 50 or so years ago since I was on them ! again apologies, Paul H.
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XP413 on the slipway
Picture of 413 being hauled up on the slipway at the Marine Craft section, how sad, ! took just over a fortnight to dismantle ready for crating & shipping home it was well drained & flushed out, we had great fun ! drilling holes in the bottom of the fuselage to let the sea out prior to lifting the floorboards to flush the "bilges" out with (very valuable) fresh water. Paul H.
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Civvy Argosy
A question , the RAF Argosy used prop blades with square tips (Dowty Rotol units ?) & note the Safe Air Argosy has round tip props ? why, any special reason also the large wing fence outboard of 1 - 4 engines , was this as a result of having a big round tail door as opposed to the RAF;s beaver tail type, what other differences did the civvy Argosy have over the RAF aircraft. PH.
Military Argosy = Higher MTOW, Strengthened Floor,
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Argosy loads
Fareastdriver, we did the trial fits with the Army in Bahrein think it was the Salladin or Saracen that was supposed to go in - but wouldn't, regardless of what the designers & Army said, "but it must it is shown on the drawing" !! believe they would fit but on a "sled" without wheels fitted, then we did the trials with the low back Bedford refueller, had to be reversed in empty, (thought the idea was to fly it into remote strips ready to function) , all ok but when loaded because of the cab & engine gearbox etc at the rear it put the C of G right on the rear most limit, fail again, we also had to use longer than standard ramps to give a shallower angle for the vehicles to drive up into the freight bay as well otherwise clearance on the top door could be a problem, the aircraft carried it's own short ramps which stayed with the aircraft, but the long ramps had to be carried in the freight bay as an extra & were very heavy ! more additional weight, about the only thing it carried without any bother was VIP's and the Landrover & trailer, it could also carry a Landrover, limber & 105 Howitzer if it was fitted in all at odd angles, once did a trip with that load & spent some of the trip sitting in the Landrover seat strapped in , no room for passenger seats, oh what fun we had, although we could carry such things as Bristol Hercules QEC's when 233 Sqd Valleta's went u/s up country, but vehicles, sorry no !, PH.
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I was an engine fitter on 115 sqn 1968-9 working on both Argosies and Varsities. I am pretty certain that XP413 was one of our aircraft and was noticeable because it suffered from endless electrical problems - most likely caused by being under water.
I spent two 3-month detachments in Singapore, on my own most of the time as I could not, as a J/T fly out with the aircraft. I got there and back by VC10. To do flight checking at Gan we had to fly via Katanyake (Colombo) because of the limited range of the aircraft. Kat was the only possible diversion.
The IRIS III aircraft was the last RAF Hastings. That gave us 3 different types of aircraft to maintain and the Hastings was a pain in that the engines were similar to the Hercules in the Varsity, they were not the same. And, being a tail dragger it was easy to fall off the wing when refuelling on a wet wing. And if any of you know RAF Cottesmore, it had the highest rainfall of any RAF station and was also very windy.
Overall, I liked the Argosy. The Darts were very reliable - I only ever changed one and that was a mistake. The Rotol props had rubber protectors stuck the the leading edge of the blades that used to fall off all the time. Eventually we cheated by painting the leading edges black.
I spent two 3-month detachments in Singapore, on my own most of the time as I could not, as a J/T fly out with the aircraft. I got there and back by VC10. To do flight checking at Gan we had to fly via Katanyake (Colombo) because of the limited range of the aircraft. Kat was the only possible diversion.
The IRIS III aircraft was the last RAF Hastings. That gave us 3 different types of aircraft to maintain and the Hastings was a pain in that the engines were similar to the Hercules in the Varsity, they were not the same. And, being a tail dragger it was easy to fall off the wing when refuelling on a wet wing. And if any of you know RAF Cottesmore, it had the highest rainfall of any RAF station and was also very windy.
Overall, I liked the Argosy. The Darts were very reliable - I only ever changed one and that was a mistake. The Rotol props had rubber protectors stuck the the leading edge of the blades that used to fall off all the time. Eventually we cheated by painting the leading edges black.
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Later on Ian was the safety pilot on the jumpseat for base training at Stansted. At V1 a simulated engine failure resulted in the aircraft cartwheeling across the Essex countryside, coming to a halt with a big hole behind them whereupon Ian called out "follow me chaps - I've done this before! "
I remmber my Dad telling me about this crash. He worked for the CAA and was near the end of the runway in a Landrover with his boss when the crash happened. They drove their Landrover to the crash site and were the first to arrive but the crew were already out and sitting on the grass. As they walked up to the crash my Dad's boss bent down and picked up a wrist watch. He approached the crew and asked if any body had had lost their watch and was this it. On checking one of the crew replied yes at which my Dad's boss asked "can you prove it?"
I remmber my Dad telling me about this crash. He worked for the CAA and was near the end of the runway in a Landrover with his boss when the crash happened. They drove their Landrover to the crash site and were the first to arrive but the crew were already out and sitting on the grass. As they walked up to the crash my Dad's boss bent down and picked up a wrist watch. He approached the crew and asked if any body had had lost their watch and was this it. On checking one of the crew replied yes at which my Dad's boss asked "can you prove it?"