Falklands Crash Sites
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Ratones
Hello (to the person who made comments on my text regarding the combat, using Maffe Huertas book)
All information stated in my article regarding the combat of the Ratones was made with fresh (2008) interviews and emails to Donadille and Piuma.
We disussed the combat using drawings as well.
This is the latest information, first hand.
Pablo
All information stated in my article regarding the combat of the Ratones was made with fresh (2008) interviews and emails to Donadille and Piuma.
We disussed the combat using drawings as well.
This is the latest information, first hand.
Pablo
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Hello Pablo. Thanks for the answer.
I would love to read Piuma testimony of the combat. I had read Donaidille as well as Senn testimonies but not Piuma. According to my particular view, Piuma would be flying some distance from his fellows what let him to appear in scene the last one. Probably in a left rear position of the incoming flight. As the flight was intercepted from the right (Ward) and front (Thomas), that would have let Piuma to dog fight in last place.
As Dave kindly posted, Piuma fired against Ward, from his 5 or 6 o´clock, failing in the attempt. This is a great news as would be the only argentinean jet who get such a position against a Sea Harrier in all war.
So Ward was fired by Donaidille in two ocasions (when he broke to face him and just after crossing) and by Piuma.
But as I told, these are my supositions. Be free to send a pm if you prefer
Regards
I would love to read Piuma testimony of the combat. I had read Donaidille as well as Senn testimonies but not Piuma. According to my particular view, Piuma would be flying some distance from his fellows what let him to appear in scene the last one. Probably in a left rear position of the incoming flight. As the flight was intercepted from the right (Ward) and front (Thomas), that would have let Piuma to dog fight in last place.
As Dave kindly posted, Piuma fired against Ward, from his 5 or 6 o´clock, failing in the attempt. This is a great news as would be the only argentinean jet who get such a position against a Sea Harrier in all war.
So Ward was fired by Donaidille in two ocasions (when he broke to face him and just after crossing) and by Piuma.
But as I told, these are my supositions. Be free to send a pm if you prefer
Regards
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Article
Hello Jualbo
You are right. Ward was fired at 3 times.
Check my article with all the info from Donadille, Piuma and Thomas, along with my model.
Pablo
Italeri 1/48 Mirage IIIE converted to Dagger, by Pablo Calcaterra
You are right. Ward was fired at 3 times.
Check my article with all the info from Donadille, Piuma and Thomas, along with my model.
Pablo
Italeri 1/48 Mirage IIIE converted to Dagger, by Pablo Calcaterra
As Dave kindly posted, Piuma fired against Ward, from his 5 or 6 o´clock, failing in the attempt. This is a great news as would be the only argentinean jet who get such a position against a Sea Harrier in all war.
More bang for your buck
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The power of PPRuNe
Found this photo on another forum.,..had never seen it before...Lt Jeff Glover being retrieved after ejecting.
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
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Jammed guns
No, that did not happen.
Morgan says so in his book but Sanchez denies it happened. He was only trying to escape and in a moment he was practically face to face (head on) with the Harriers and then he turned to escape.
In fact, Morgan's statement has been denied by Sanchez in an email to me as late as Dec 08, when I asked specifically that question.
"Mr. Spencer" I believe coincides that due to the speed and position of the planes at the moment, it would have been pretty much improbable for Sanchez to get (even by chance) in a firing position behind Morgan.
Pablo
Morgan says so in his book but Sanchez denies it happened. He was only trying to escape and in a moment he was practically face to face (head on) with the Harriers and then he turned to escape.
In fact, Morgan's statement has been denied by Sanchez in an email to me as late as Dec 08, when I asked specifically that question.
"Mr. Spencer" I believe coincides that due to the speed and position of the planes at the moment, it would have been pretty much improbable for Sanchez to get (even by chance) in a firing position behind Morgan.
Pablo
Chinook Doors
Does anyone know if the pilot and co-pilot doors from the Argentinian CH-47 were "borrowed" for use on the RAF Chinook "Bravo Novemeber"? I have read that BN had a near crash and jettioned it's doors, and have also seen pictures of Argentinian Army AE-520 with it's doors removed. So were they removed for use on BN or as souvenirs?
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Mark Nine:
There was an interesting article in 'Flypast' magazine about the Falklands war crash sites a few months back.
There was an interesting article in 'Flypast' magazine about the Falklands war crash sites a few months back.
Thanks
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Greengranite, the file has been downloaded too many times for Rapidshare...send me a PM and I will email you the photo.
Found this video in Spanish....an interview of Lt Arca shortly after he was shot down...lots of footage of the wreckage of the A-4Q
YouTube - Documental Malvinas 2/7
Found this video in Spanish....an interview of Lt Arca shortly after he was shot down...lots of footage of the wreckage of the A-4Q
YouTube - Documental Malvinas 2/7
Last edited by Willoz269; 16th Mar 2009 at 22:31.
I used to work with a guy called Geoff Fish who was a helicopter pilot during the war. He used to recount a tale of a mechanical failure which lead to his helicopter crash landing in a pond. I've tried googling this in order to find out more info but I drew a blank so can anyone on PPRuNe add any details?
On the 8th June 1982, a Scout AH1 (XR628/DO) of 656 Sqn AAC was forced to take avoiding action by going to a very low hover (several feet above Macphee pond (Gird Ref VC 018551)) from a formation of Grupo 5 Skyhawks south west of Fitzroy (The aircraft that successfully attacked the two LSL's). After the attack had passed, the pilot started to climb away, at which point the main gearbox failed (Tail rotor drive) and the pilot managed to make an immediate forced landing into the pond (which was about four feet deep) with very little damage to the airframe (CAT 2). After REME techs removed the weapons sight and the engine, the airframe was airlifted to Fitzroy on 11 June by a Sea King and was returned to the UK on 12th July 82 on board MV Elk. However, according to my source (Falklands, the Air War) The crew of the Scout at the time of the accident was Sgt Dick Kalinski (Pilot) and Cpl Juilian Rigg (Gunner).
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I have re-reading Sharkey Ward book and found some interesting info about 8th june interception of Mazo flight by 800 Sqn.
According to Ward, he and Steve Thomas saw all the action. The fourth Shyhawk (Sánchez) would have jettisoned his fuel tanks over the eastern island of Choiseul Sound. They tried to chase him when were vectored to intercept three Mirage III that came from the west. According to him, that saved Sánchez to be shot down.
Mirage returned home when were close (15 miles) to them.
Regards all.
According to Ward, he and Steve Thomas saw all the action. The fourth Shyhawk (Sánchez) would have jettisoned his fuel tanks over the eastern island of Choiseul Sound. They tried to chase him when were vectored to intercept three Mirage III that came from the west. According to him, that saved Sánchez to be shot down.
Mirage returned home when were close (15 miles) to them.
Regards all.
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Sandiago
In answer to your question on Chinook BN the co's door was only replaced after the war. It was lost on the night of 30May/1 June after hitting the water just north of Astancia House. BN was operating in support of the Commando artillary and had just put in 3 105 guns on the slopes of Mt Kent. they came under fire and were egressing at low level in very poor weather and low vis on goggles when they hit the water at about 100 kts. The bow wave from the water strike came right over the cockpit but fortunately did not break through the perspex. The co thinking they had ditched jettisened his door and was about to escape when the skipper called him to help on the collective and between them they they pulled her out. They then returned to San Carlos at medium level with all their lights on because they couldnt get through on the radios and didnt want to get shot down by the AD boys.
The missing door became a recognition feature on the aircraft though. The Brit troops were aware that the Argentinans had CH47's but they were also awere that BN had lost one door. A few days after the Mt Kent mission they were moving troops forward from Goose Green when they flew close to the 105 battery who turned their guns around to attack it on its second run. Fortunately one of the gunners realised that the co's door was missing and called off the attack.
Hope that helps
In answer to your question on Chinook BN the co's door was only replaced after the war. It was lost on the night of 30May/1 June after hitting the water just north of Astancia House. BN was operating in support of the Commando artillary and had just put in 3 105 guns on the slopes of Mt Kent. they came under fire and were egressing at low level in very poor weather and low vis on goggles when they hit the water at about 100 kts. The bow wave from the water strike came right over the cockpit but fortunately did not break through the perspex. The co thinking they had ditched jettisened his door and was about to escape when the skipper called him to help on the collective and between them they they pulled her out. They then returned to San Carlos at medium level with all their lights on because they couldnt get through on the radios and didnt want to get shot down by the AD boys.
The missing door became a recognition feature on the aircraft though. The Brit troops were aware that the Argentinans had CH47's but they were also awere that BN had lost one door. A few days after the Mt Kent mission they were moving troops forward from Goose Green when they flew close to the 105 battery who turned their guns around to attack it on its second run. Fortunately one of the gunners realised that the co's door was missing and called off the attack.
Hope that helps
Suspicion breeds confidence
Greetings Pablo and welcome. Andy Auld was not in the RAF, but was a Lt Commander in the Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm and the CO of 800 NAS. I am sure you will get a PM form someone soon helping you find him.
Navaleye
Navaleye
Red On, Green On
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Andy Auld is not a member of the FAAOA (new handbook arrived today) but I guess someone at the office knows how to find him. Try Fleet Air Arm Officers' Association, FAAOA, Contact Us
Suspicion breeds confidence
Port Stanley Airfield runway denial
Since the Falklands War went on 27 years ago this week, I would like to pose a question. The UK expended considerable effort on trying to close the run. As far as I know, high level bombing by Sea Harriers was proposed but not tried. Sharkey Ward suggested 5 Shars in card formation flying down the axis of the runway from West to East at 15,000+ feet. In clear weather it sounds a possibility. Why was it not tried?
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Navaleye.
Re High level bombing.
Please respect that I am an amateur, but my see on the situation was that the Shars were primarily AD. The Task Force had only a limited number of airframes. To commit the Shars to GA could/did/would create irreplaceable assets. Just my take.
As an aside, 27 years ago. Doesn't time fly? 10 days to the anniversary.
Re High level bombing.
Please respect that I am an amateur, but my see on the situation was that the Shars were primarily AD. The Task Force had only a limited number of airframes. To commit the Shars to GA could/did/would create irreplaceable assets. Just my take.
As an aside, 27 years ago. Doesn't time fly? 10 days to the anniversary.
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Navaleye, M'Dear Chap.
Actually, we did try it! For a period of several days, may even have been a couple of weeks, we all carried a single 1000lb centreline bomb with a DA fuze of sorts on the way outbound from the carrier to the CAP station.
The idea was to drop it over Stanley airfield at high level during the transit.
You can read about it in Sharkey's book and how it led to the greatest 'switch pigs' of the conflict. One of the difficulties in the Sea Harrier cockpit was that the 'pickle' button had several functions amongst which were missile firing, bomb release, camera run, acceptance of loft attack etc.
In the case of a bombs attack it was crucial to deselect the missiles, something Sharkey forgot during one of these bomb passes!! It also explains why John Leeming couldn't fire his missiles when behind an A4 (forgot to select) and ended up closing to one of the most spectacular guns kills of the conflict.
The Sea Harrier had absolutely no high level bomb aiming sight or capability whatsoever so the release point was ridiculously inaccurate. I have no idea where any of my bombs landed.
One of the reasons Gordy Batt ended up dropping his free fall 1000lb bomb on the Narwhal was that he was carrying it after having passed over Stanley in bad weather and had been unable to sight the airfield. (Bloody good job it didn't go off!!!)
All the best
ES
Actually, we did try it! For a period of several days, may even have been a couple of weeks, we all carried a single 1000lb centreline bomb with a DA fuze of sorts on the way outbound from the carrier to the CAP station.
The idea was to drop it over Stanley airfield at high level during the transit.
You can read about it in Sharkey's book and how it led to the greatest 'switch pigs' of the conflict. One of the difficulties in the Sea Harrier cockpit was that the 'pickle' button had several functions amongst which were missile firing, bomb release, camera run, acceptance of loft attack etc.
In the case of a bombs attack it was crucial to deselect the missiles, something Sharkey forgot during one of these bomb passes!! It also explains why John Leeming couldn't fire his missiles when behind an A4 (forgot to select) and ended up closing to one of the most spectacular guns kills of the conflict.
The Sea Harrier had absolutely no high level bomb aiming sight or capability whatsoever so the release point was ridiculously inaccurate. I have no idea where any of my bombs landed.
One of the reasons Gordy Batt ended up dropping his free fall 1000lb bomb on the Narwhal was that he was carrying it after having passed over Stanley in bad weather and had been unable to sight the airfield. (Bloody good job it didn't go off!!!)
All the best
ES
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Hi all again and welcome Pablo.
I have´ve been searching some info about Ardiles downing. Do you remember that Hale and Penfold reported to be guided towards more than one Dagger? Well I think that found an explanantion:
One of the Daggers (1st Lt Román) from "Torno" flight (the section that attacked Arrow, Glamorgan and Alacrity south of Stanley) had radio problems and also fuel transfer trouble fro m his external drop tanks. This made him to go up in order to save fuel. It seems that Argentinean Air Force radar at Stanley detected a Sea Harrier CAP trying to intercept him and vectored two CAPs of Dagger towards them. One of them were the "Fortin" flight (Donadille and Senn) who pursuited the british CAP until get them to abort the prosecution of Román plane who, due to his radio problems, didn´t know what was happening. But probably, Lt Ardiles plane, from "Rubio" flight, who was the only member of his CAP (his leader had mechanical problems before taking off) was also advertised to intercept the CAp and got into fight against Penfold-Hale. The timetibles of all actions match. "Rubio" was on the islands when "Torno" attacked and "Fortin" arrived a bit later.
Perhaps the other Dagger was Lt Román.
"Fierro" CAP, by a solitary Dagger (Cap Díaz) from San Julián Air base was flown earlier in the morning (FAA webpage has an error about the timetible), so couldn´t be the other Dagger.
Pablo it could be great that the then Major Luis Puga, would participate in the forum. He flown two antishipping mission. In the second was downed.
In the first one, on 21st may he was one of the members of Laucha flight together 1st Lt Román and 1st Lt Mario Callejo. Callejo scaped by miracle from the Sea Harriers that downed Puga on 24th may. He was returning after attacking in San Carlos as a member from "Plata" flight (the previous section to "Oro") and just passed by the same place where two Sea Harriers had just downed all "Oro" members. He was chased some miles but flying supersonically could evade.
On 21st may mission, 1st Lt Román and Major Puga attacked HMS Ardent just before the first trio of A-4Qs from Argentine Navy and after a previous Dagger section that had damaged the ship that was in flames at the moment. Callejo attacked in solitary HMS Brilliant hitting her with his guns causing some injuried and damaging the ship´s CIC.
Puga couldn´t drop his bombs for a technical failure and Román failed.
Edmund, do you think Ward really had an oportunity to chase Sánchez on 8th june?
Regards
I have´ve been searching some info about Ardiles downing. Do you remember that Hale and Penfold reported to be guided towards more than one Dagger? Well I think that found an explanantion:
One of the Daggers (1st Lt Román) from "Torno" flight (the section that attacked Arrow, Glamorgan and Alacrity south of Stanley) had radio problems and also fuel transfer trouble fro m his external drop tanks. This made him to go up in order to save fuel. It seems that Argentinean Air Force radar at Stanley detected a Sea Harrier CAP trying to intercept him and vectored two CAPs of Dagger towards them. One of them were the "Fortin" flight (Donadille and Senn) who pursuited the british CAP until get them to abort the prosecution of Román plane who, due to his radio problems, didn´t know what was happening. But probably, Lt Ardiles plane, from "Rubio" flight, who was the only member of his CAP (his leader had mechanical problems before taking off) was also advertised to intercept the CAp and got into fight against Penfold-Hale. The timetibles of all actions match. "Rubio" was on the islands when "Torno" attacked and "Fortin" arrived a bit later.
Perhaps the other Dagger was Lt Román.
"Fierro" CAP, by a solitary Dagger (Cap Díaz) from San Julián Air base was flown earlier in the morning (FAA webpage has an error about the timetible), so couldn´t be the other Dagger.
Pablo it could be great that the then Major Luis Puga, would participate in the forum. He flown two antishipping mission. In the second was downed.
In the first one, on 21st may he was one of the members of Laucha flight together 1st Lt Román and 1st Lt Mario Callejo. Callejo scaped by miracle from the Sea Harriers that downed Puga on 24th may. He was returning after attacking in San Carlos as a member from "Plata" flight (the previous section to "Oro") and just passed by the same place where two Sea Harriers had just downed all "Oro" members. He was chased some miles but flying supersonically could evade.
On 21st may mission, 1st Lt Román and Major Puga attacked HMS Ardent just before the first trio of A-4Qs from Argentine Navy and after a previous Dagger section that had damaged the ship that was in flames at the moment. Callejo attacked in solitary HMS Brilliant hitting her with his guns causing some injuried and damaging the ship´s CIC.
Puga couldn´t drop his bombs for a technical failure and Román failed.
Edmund, do you think Ward really had an oportunity to chase Sánchez on 8th june?
Regards
Nice to see this fine thread resurrected!
Silvasonic,
good luck with finding Andy Auld! i would have thought you might be off the mark when you say Major Puga is 70 years old but then it's already been 27 years since the Falklands war! Unbelievable! Time flies!
by the way there's a new book on the war called:
The Falklands War Then and Now
by Gordon Ramsey
I think it's the most comprehensive pictorial account by far! You can, also, see a pic of a young fighter jock with his hair on fire called ..ahem..Edmund Spencer!
Silvasonic,
good luck with finding Andy Auld! i would have thought you might be off the mark when you say Major Puga is 70 years old but then it's already been 27 years since the Falklands war! Unbelievable! Time flies!
by the way there's a new book on the war called:
The Falklands War Then and Now
by Gordon Ramsey
I think it's the most comprehensive pictorial account by far! You can, also, see a pic of a young fighter jock with his hair on fire called ..ahem..Edmund Spencer!