Accused Pilot
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Age: 71
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I think it is ludicrous to think that a pilot is not capable of a heinous crime. It may be a noble and respected profession but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a few fruitcakes out there sitting in the left and right hand seat. Andreas Lubitz comes to mind. A complete headcase who committed the unspeakable. Our society is now filled with angry people, road ragers, car park rage, shopping queue rage and who knows, maybe old mate was having a wonderful time camping when Pops and his mistress pulled up to camp right on top of him, complete with an annoying drone. Who knows, time will tell, but it certainly doesn’t look good.
There would be several reasons it would be legal and appropriate to stand an employee down. Most obvious is safety in regard to the employee being able to do their job adequately while under the high pressure of standing accused, whether guilty or not. Then you have other issues such as what if the accused decides to do something stupid to evade capture at some point, etc...
Now stand down without pay is another issue, I assume that is more what you would debate.
Once you are charged with a serious offence and remanded in custody I assume pay would be suspended until resolved.
Now stand down without pay is another issue, I assume that is more what you would debate.
Once you are charged with a serious offence and remanded in custody I assume pay would be suspended until resolved.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Melbourne
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Many would also say that Zaharie Shah of MH370 can be added to the list alongside Lubitz. There was a senior RCAF pilot who ended up being a serial killer as well, there's a detailed video showing the police interview on YouTube. Whilst you can have these types of people from any background or profession, it's easy to understand the shock factor of it all. I would argue that generally most killers do fit the "stereotype", however it's easy to name a list of those who don't because those ones naturally get more attention.
I agree with 43Inches. I think an employee in any field would be suspended under the circumstances. On the pay issue, for what it's worth, the Fair Work Act s.524-525 states..
However, the EBA may change that, I don't know. I know police who are being investigated are typically suspended with pay.
I agree with 43Inches. I think an employee in any field would be suspended under the circumstances. On the pay issue, for what it's worth, the Fair Work Act s.524-525 states..
An employer may stand down an employee during a period in which the employee cannot usefully be employed because of a number of circumstances including:
-A stoppage of work for any cause for which the employer cannot reasonably be held responsible.
If an employer stands down an employee during a period in accordance with s.524 of the Fair Work Act then the employer is not required to make payments to the employee for that period.
Section 524 is intended to relieve an employer of the obligation to pay wages to employees who cannot be usefully employed in certain limited circumstances.
-A stoppage of work for any cause for which the employer cannot reasonably be held responsible.
If an employer stands down an employee during a period in accordance with s.524 of the Fair Work Act then the employer is not required to make payments to the employee for that period.
Section 524 is intended to relieve an employer of the obligation to pay wages to employees who cannot be usefully employed in certain limited circumstances.
“absolute discretion”?
So group security can withhold or withdraw an ASIC on the basis that they tossed a coin and it came up ‘heads’ or a person’s middle name starts with a vowel? Not “absolute” methinks.
So group security can withhold or withdraw an ASIC on the basis that they tossed a coin and it came up ‘heads’ or a person’s middle name starts with a vowel? Not “absolute” methinks.
Yeah not accused, charged. Big difference.
On another note I was just thinking how well the Qantarse physc testing works
On another note I was just thinking how well the Qantarse physc testing works
Join Date: May 2005
Location: oz
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Absolute discretion - I’ll expand. The head of security who has sign off on all group ASIC may withhold or withdraw an ASIC based on evidence indicating the applicant or holder is not suitable, including hearsay or evidence that is otherwise not admissible in a Court. If an allegation is made against an employee and the boss believes it, ASIC can be withdrawn and no right of appeal.
My understanding is that's not the case, while the ASIC issuer has the right to revoke access, it has to be reasonable as it's affecting an employees work rights. Unless the allegation holds reasonable safety or security risks as per the terms of issue there is no grounds to remove or deny an ASIC. However once convicted of a serious crime such as murder, that's pretty much it and can no longer be held. Being accused of or charged, still is a position of innocence until proven guilty. Of course if you are accused of wanting to harm an aircraft or airport, then you will probably have access denied until some investigation is concluded. Much the same as you will not be fired/sacked until convicted, at which point you will lose your job and ASIC.
Pilots are meant to be a trusted profession, at times making it into the top 3 on the “Most Trusted Professions” list:
It appears this individual had some personality traits that may have raised concerns, but he crafted his skill well enough to be promoted into positions of power.
I'm sure now we will hear more about his past, and the red flags that were ignored.
Could be elsewhere, not so at QF group.
Even though the guy hasn’t been proven guilty, the event does clearly articulate that potentially the physic assessments tests and the ASIC background tests are ineffective and are just a tick in the box exercise.
The aviation industry is pretty small in Australia, anyone in the know can easily get any good or bad intel on any pilot if they try hard enough, particularly if they have the contacts and have been around a while.
The aviation industry is pretty small in Australia, anyone in the know can easily get any good or bad intel on any pilot if they try hard enough, particularly if they have the contacts and have been around a while.
Don’t believe me, don’t care. Just watch what you get up to if you hold a QF ASIC. Have a look for the policy, you won’t find it. Not published to staff.
Is it legal to stand an employee down for being accused of a crime?