Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Accused Pilot

Old 30th Nov 2021, 11:42
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I've found this thread very informative.

Far more discussion out there on Theranos and Epstein for example. There is nothing stopping those trials and as yet there's no Lynn docco on HBO as far as I'm aware. Likewise, nothing I've seen here is suggesting anything like guilty until proven innocent.

As for 'ongoing workplace distraction' - I suspect that horse might just have bolted. What is posted here is (in the overnight galley gossip sense) largely irrelevant!


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Old 1st Dec 2021, 03:04
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Aviation has always had more than it's fair share of nutters. God knows I flew with heaps.
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Old 1st Dec 2021, 18:40
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
Aviation has always had more than it's fair share of nutters. God knows I flew with heaps.

Ah yes, there was the Eastern Airlines pilot who murdered his wife, (PAA flight attendant), froze her body and fed her through the wood chipper.
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 05:22
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Originally Posted by Rotor Work View Post
Human remains have been found.
Regards R W
Police have concluded their search after less than a week. I guess they found what they were looking for.
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 05:31
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Likewise, nothing I've seen here is suggesting anything like guilty until proven innocent.
Sub Judice is not just about whether you call the accused guilty or not. It's about publishing information that could influence the opinion of a juror of the character of the accused and bias any judgement without that information being tested in court. So reporting things that have been covered in court in front of the Jury is fine, as with talking about what police have released to the public. Earlier in the thread there were a number of comments about past occurrences in work and personal life that may not be in evidence yet and therefore possibly crossing the line. Anything of that nature should be provided to the police for evidence, not released in a public forum that can be trolled by press for information.
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 08:53
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Earlier in the thread there were a number of comments about past occurrences in work and personal life that may not be in evidence yet and therefore possibly crossing the line. Anything of that nature should be provided to the police for evidence, not released in a public forum that can be trolled by press for information.
You're right, of course. Just like the MH370 thread and countless thousands of others.

This really should be the very last comment made on PPRuNe. It must be shut down forthwith, its entire database removed and deleted.
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 09:29
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I'm not sure what you are getting at, the earlier comments were not presented as rumor, they were very much direct comments on the accused and his past actions. That's very different to musing over what happened to a Malaysian airliner which won't be investigated by judge and jury, but by a panel of inquiry.

Sub Judice applies to significant crimes that are put before a Jury. Not many cases on PPRuNe are similar in nature, as we all know its not common in aviation to have this type of thing occur. But as per the warning guidelines, courts can summon information from this site including IPs and such to Identify individuals, so you are not protected by anonymity from a court action, unless you are some high level hacker (PS VPNs and false routing technology wont protect you).
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 10:47
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I'm not sure what you are getting at,...,they were very much direct comments on the accused and his past actions.
Like almost every other thread here Except you may be taking liberties (these days) by suggesting the accused is, in fact, male. Or - have you seen the individual in ways most of us would prefer to just imagine?

Can someone give me Dick Smith's contact details because I need to make half the money he is out of the crypto he advertises on this website (and thousands of others) every minute of every day. If that actually is false and Mr Smith isnt a crypto marketing billionaire - be afraid because... as per the warning guidelines, courts can summon information from this site including IPs and such to Identify individuals, so you are not protected by anonymity from a court action, unless you are some high level hacker (PS VPNs and false routing technology wont protect you).





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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 19:44
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First of all you have to launch court action to get to that point. I can illegally push ads etc, its up to whoever is involved to then take it to authorities and demand intervention and action, it's also unlikely the origination of such fake adds was from within Australia so prosecution becomes very difficult. Someone commenting on personal details of a crime is most likely living within Australia typing on a local IP address and subject to our laws. Also with a sub judice court case only the judge has to decide if the publication is wrong, bring charges and cost return is not a consideration, just level of crime and willingness to prove a point. If you are on the wrong side of that, good luck.

PS You only have to watch the news that those phone and net scammers are regularly caught within Australia. However it's easy to set up so when one is caught, another takes its' place and so on.

Last edited by 43Inches; 2nd Dec 2021 at 20:06.
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 23:12
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
You are not protected by anonymity from a court action, unless you are some high level hacker (PS VPNs and false routing technology wont protect you).
As someone with 20 years in ipsec, this isn't correct. Poorly configured routing may see your host ip revealed, but with basic care and rudimentary knowledge, a suitable vpn will make your identity effectively impossible to discern. Half of china would have been disappeared by now were that not the case.
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Old 2nd Dec 2021, 23:27
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You are confusing what private tracing vs Australias very invasive federal authorities have access to. The recent crime events should be a warning that they can bug phones, net, cars, use networked cameras, internet activity etc etc. Its more a case of do they want to expend resources to catch you or not, some of it can be dicey as evidence due to the nature of how they procure it hence why they only use it to help gather leads to a case, then use the traditional evidence because its more firm, and does not disclose how they came to find that evidence. Same as you might use a snout/informant to gain leads but you don't dump them in it as primary evidence to protect their identity, and keep them in position for further charges. As per China, you can do what you want until your actions annoy someone in power, and then whatever you think you have done in secret is used against you and dragged out in public, again even with draconian over the top surveillance China still has 1.5 billion people, you can only watch a small fraction of those so you only focus on the ones that cause trouble. If someone is using VPN to circumvent simple locks to watch netflix, who gives a dam, not a national security problem, the majority are not.

Pretty sure if you try to hide behind a VPN in China and get up to something frowned upon the owners of the VPN will be in for a tough time vs interference and hacking from the Chinese authorities, so your identity wont be hidden for long.

BTW the law enforcement in China is fast and efficient when it wants to be. I know of a number of incidents but the most notable was a mate who was scammed out of around $20,000 dollars in Guangzou. After feeling ashamed and embarrassed he finally had the courage to go to the local station and straight away they took him with them to identify the people that had blackmailed him. The crims were so afraid of the law turning up that they immediately started crying and repaid all the money back into respective accounts, no court, no arguments. There is much crime in China, but they definitely fear the law.

Last edited by 43Inches; 2nd Dec 2021 at 23:50.
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Old 3rd Dec 2021, 21:53
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No confusion here. It's self evident that if you are already the target of investigation then the police are likely monitoring you via a host of direct means. But this is seperate and distinct from the efficacy of a suitable vpn, or encrypted routing protocol where you are not already the target of investigation, which is effectively the the entire population minus a very small number of individuals.

If you want to shit post on PPRuNe or anywhere else and take suitable steps, you will never be found. Simple as that.

Anyone who uses a vpn based in China is an idiot. For any Vpn based outside of China, who cares what the CCP think. They have little control over it beyond playing whack a mole with the gateway ip's.

​​​


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Old 3rd Dec 2021, 22:57
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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The last vestige of privacy was access to iPhone internal storage, which Aus agencies have access to now, everything else that goes through a public router can be traced, picked at and decrypted. Which is why large corps don't have public networks and run segregated systems. Unless your encryption is this years military then its not even close to 100% secure. Basically the main security we all have using the net is sheer numbers and rate of return for the act. That is, phishing and confidence scams are still the easiest that anyone can get involved in. Hacking is rarely a problem for an individual, you usually hacked yourself by downloading and activating something or giving your details freely to a phishing scam. Same in gaming, hacking is rare, use of third party cheats is common. Someone with the skill to actually hack a system, break into and decrypt information is very rare, so they tend to stick to things of very high reward. Or just selling simple third parties for others and stay off government radars. Same with authorities, they either don't have the resources or don't have probable cause to be checking everyone in Australia for breaches in law, instead they wait for suspicious activity and then focus on that. So you can easily get away with using a VPN to access Netflix, watch the Grand finals etc, that doesn't mean they are fool proof for your anonymity, just means its too low key and intensive to chase everyone down doing it. They are more likely waiting to trip up Russian or Chinese hackers for political reasons. I had someone try to get into one of my secure emails a few weeks back, first IP was from west coast USA, then it switched to Eastern Europe and then the last three attempts from an IP in Russia. All at similar intervals indicating the same source. I'm not sure if it was US based trying to cover up using Eastern Europe routing or Eastern Europe based that tried to cover using US routing first, who knows, don't care, they failed.

PS I piss off people all over the world for my comments on various topics, some get angry.
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Old 3rd Dec 2021, 23:58
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Er OK? Not sure what relevence 90% of all that has to anything.

Your point seems to be if the authorities already know who you are, then they can see what you're doing. The question is, how do they find out who you are in the first place?

You've got a list of ip's that you allege tried to access your systems. What do you plan to do with that exactly? What happens when the authorities contact the hosts of those ip's and are told the host keeps no logs? Then upon forensic examination confirm that fact? Who's router are the authorities going to hack exactly?
​​​​​​

Like I said, assuming you're not already the target of investigation (which is basically everyone) then effective anonymity is available to you, if you want it. Simple as that.

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Old 4th Dec 2021, 00:29
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Point is if you are in a position to know the acused personally enough to make a sub judice comment that a judge may consider contempt then a VPN will not protect you. The same as defamatory comments, they can narrow down to workers freinds and colleauges and then 'look into' the most likely suspects, throw a few supenas in and suddenly you are not so annonymous.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 05:03
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Point is if you are in a position to know the acused personally enough to make a sub judice comment that a judge may consider contempt then a VPN will not protect you. The same as defamatory comments, they can narrow down to workers freinds and colleauges and then 'look into' the most likely suspects, throw a few supenas in and suddenly you are not so annonymous.
After charges are filed itís not wise to offer comments since that might give comfort to a defence lawyer, agreed. Before charges are laid you are open to a defamation suit. Its in the aftermath of a conviction or confession that defamation becomes moot because its not really possible to defame a double murderer.

I am given to understand that there is going to be more to this saga than has yet been alleged publicly. If so, its going to be awful, and the media will have a field day for years.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 06:00
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It's already started.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...02-p59e6z.html
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 06:25
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Point is if you are in a position to know the acused personally enough to make a sub judice comment that a judge may consider contempt then a VPN will not protect you. The same as defamatory comments, they can narrow down to workers freinds and colleauges and then 'look into' the most likely suspects, throw a few supenas in and suddenly you are not so annonymous.
If someone wants to make defamatory comments about person X, then the idea that the courts would permit the relevant authority to hack into the specific machines owned by every JQ pilot is hilarious. That's at a minimum something like 1000 people if you include pilots only, but there are cabin crew and operations staff too. Call it 2000 to be conservative. Say 3 devices each on average, you're talking about breaking security on 6000 devices, all of different makes and models, operating systems, security protocols and more. The manpower requirement for that type of work would be in the hundreds, and that doesn't include the workload required to maintain the compromised devices and actually monitor what was happening. Meanwhile the FBI is suing apple left right and center to attempt to break into a single iPhone. Unsuccessfully. I think you're grossly overestimating Australia's ipsec capability.

I do like the idea though of a building filled with hundreds of people all working together to find the mastermind involved in what is almost always a civil offence.

If I so desired (and I make no admission that I have or would do this), I could post whatever I wanted on this site, or any site and beyond having the comment deleted and the user account banned, no agency would have the first clue who was responsible for making it. Silk road operated for years, with absolute impunity. They sold weapons, drugs, people, you name it. Is it seriously your position that the Governments involved could have traced these people down whenever they wanted? Ulbricht fell because of a stupid technical mistake, a misconfiguration in its login page. It took the NSA and FBI years and without that misconfiguration, it'd likely STIL be going.

Just as there are right now, as I type this, dozens of alternatives and clones operating behind the tor network or various other methods. Why are they operating mate? Why did it take the NSA and FBI years of investigation, in the end relying on an apache configuration error if they can just 'throw a few "supenas" around and boom, not so "annonymous"?

It paints an interesting picture does it not? Follow your argument to its conclusion the result is that the Government most be entirely complicity with dark web marketplaces selling child pornography, weapons, drugs etc.. But civil defamation!? Well we won't be standing for that! That we're going to investigate and nobody is safe!

Its nonsense.

If you're not the subject of an active investigation, and aren't completely idiotic to give away your identity by what you write, the Government or anyone else for that matter has absolutely no capability to identify who you are.

The end.
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Old 4th Dec 2021, 06:43
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I never said it was all about hacking, there's a lot of other leads to ascertain who and why are defamatory/contempt. Past posts, employees that have shown similar behavior to posted information, etc, can narrow down on age, sex and many other things that they can hone in on an individual. The hacking and monitoring capabilities are just one aspect of what authorities are capable of. Also have to remember that if they think its a said employee the company would most likely be informed and hand over any relevant information. I think you are being naive to just how easy it is to trace someones identity through characteristics. All I said is that VPNs wont protect you, not that VPNs will be hacked, which they also can be on top of standard police work.

BTW you are familiar with why the site has a warning in the headers about anonymity, right?

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Old 4th Dec 2021, 07:20
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
I never said it was all about hacking, there's a lot of other leads to ascertain who and why are defamatory/contempt. Past posts, employees that have shown similar behavior to posted information, etc, can narrow down on age, sex and many other things that they can hone in on an individual. The hacking and monitoring capabilities are just one aspect of what authorities are capable of. Also have to remember that if they think its a said employee the company would most likely be informed and hand over any relevant information. All I said is that VPNs wont protect you, not that VPNs will be hacked, which they also can be on top of standard police work.
You're literally arguing that the Government is complicit in child pornography, weapons sales and human trafficking, but is an unstoppable force when notified of civil defamation. Do you not see how absurd your position is? If not by now, I suspect never.

Originally Posted by 43
I think you are being naive to just how easy it is to trace someones identity through characteristics.
No doubt Silk road 3.0 is shaking in its boots at this newfound knowledge of police capability. Odd its been more than 6 years since it went live and.. its still up. Any day now though right mate?
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