Virgin Australia Long Haul International EBA is up!!
Join Date: May 2007
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Mr Nash has eloquently hit the nail on the head. Long Haul and Short Haul are not the same company...yet. Long Haul didn't have an EBA to bitch about until recently.
VA doesn't control the VB EBA process any more than VB controls the VA EBA. When the short haul negotiations come around go your hardest to make the VA EBA look like the worst document in the history of industrial relations. Get a better deal than VA and we'll all win in the long run.
Better still why not negotiate a group approach to the whole issue and then we really will be one big happy family.
VA doesn't control the VB EBA process any more than VB controls the VA EBA. When the short haul negotiations come around go your hardest to make the VA EBA look like the worst document in the history of industrial relations. Get a better deal than VA and we'll all win in the long run.
Better still why not negotiate a group approach to the whole issue and then we really will be one big happy family.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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No reference, just idle speculation on my part.
Agreed, hence my thoughts that it is a fight for the VB pilots to determine where they slot into the VA payscales. It was never going to be an option for the VA pilots to make a stand for conditions that only affect VB pilots. That will come sometime in the future when we are an integrated workforce and can make a unified stand on those important points. That time is not now.
Hopefully the post VB EBA period will have two groups on fairly similarly structured conditions and from there it will be an easier step to discuss a fully integrated and consistent group salary structure
Itnis also important to understand that the unions are just bargaining representatives, it is the pilots who make the decisions, and VA pilots shouldn't
be expected to make a stand on what are essentially VB conditions.
There were many issues over which the unions told the company to go jump, but the company controls the document, therefore they control what is put to the vote. In essence they don't have to listen to anything the unions say. So in this case they put forward the salary structure they preferred, and the pilots voted it up. Very long bow to draw to say the unions dropped the ball.
With the VB EBA about to expire, I would expect that a 737 Captain would be hoping for a pay rise above the current $190K. Even at 3%, it comes out at about the same as the Level 1 777 CPT pay - not so hot. A 737 FO would (assuming 3% pay rise) would actually take a pay cut to move to the 777 as an FO.
Agreed, hence my thoughts that it is a fight for the VB pilots to determine where they slot into the VA payscales. It was never going to be an option for the VA pilots to make a stand for conditions that only affect VB pilots. That will come sometime in the future when we are an integrated workforce and can make a unified stand on those important points. That time is not now.
Hopefully the post VB EBA period will have two groups on fairly similarly structured conditions and from there it will be an easier step to discuss a fully integrated and consistent group salary structure
Itnis also important to understand that the unions are just bargaining representatives, it is the pilots who make the decisions, and VA pilots shouldn't
be expected to make a stand on what are essentially VB conditions.
There were many issues over which the unions told the company to go jump, but the company controls the document, therefore they control what is put to the vote. In essence they don't have to listen to anything the unions say. So in this case they put forward the salary structure they preferred, and the pilots voted it up. Very long bow to draw to say the unions dropped the ball.
Join Date: May 2004
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In the end who cares? A 5 A/C two destination outfit. Hell if they are still going in 10 years from now (maybe 5) then I will be stunned.
JB knows the real money has and will always be in their domestic ops. And with the Interline partnerships VA is not even really needed now.
VA pilots should be praying that VB pilots accept something that includes movement and integration for the VA pilots.
JB knows the real money has and will always be in their domestic ops. And with the Interline partnerships VA is not even really needed now.
VA pilots should be praying that VB pilots accept something that includes movement and integration for the VA pilots.
Anyone that wants to fly long haul should care. 777's may come or go, but any Virgin Australia Long Haul operation will operate under this EBA or its derivative.
Remember the company tried to make Virgin Australia a signatory not long ago.
Remember the company tried to make Virgin Australia a signatory not long ago.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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So PammyAnderson and porch monkey, International just made a 22.4 million dollar profit and the group a 68 million dollar loss.
So with know it all attitudes like that , you couldn't wait for the annual results to be published and had to have a cheap go at VA International,
either you missed out at VA, or really don't know how a large business works.
Either way your glass half empty attitude is shining bright today.
So with know it all attitudes like that , you couldn't wait for the annual results to be published and had to have a cheap go at VA International,
either you missed out at VA, or really don't know how a large business works.
Either way your glass half empty attitude is shining bright today.
Pammy says
"JB knows the real money has and will always be in their domestic ops"
How stupid do you feel?
22.4 Million Profit for International - I'm sure JB isn't too unhappy with his decisions!
Your already shabby integrity has been lost - must be time to get another pprune name. Goodbye Pammy
"JB knows the real money has and will always be in their domestic ops"
How stupid do you feel?
22.4 Million Profit for International - I'm sure JB isn't too unhappy with his decisions!
Your already shabby integrity has been lost - must be time to get another pprune name. Goodbye Pammy
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Didn't have access to the current results, so I stand corrected. Have no issue with that. But I might suggest to you that you are still a long way from covering the costs of startup and previous losses, underwritten by domestic. I hope for the good of the company as a whole it continues And as far as missing out at VA? No interest in flying 14hr sectors. You might, but that's your business. You call my statement a cheap shot and then go on to do exactly the same. Nice job hippocrite. If you opened your eyes just a little you would see that amongst the fluff that pammy posted, there are a couple of important points you should consider, namely, GROUP opportunities. Really, how many commands will there be at a 5 a/c airline? And pammy's also right that it will most likely not get any bigger. Go ask JB if you don't believe me. I have.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Long term longhaul
...., and I have had the pleasure of speaking at length with JB too..., and he gave me a very different impression!
In his words...., "Why bust a gut to win a fare-war against 3 other carriers for increasingly smaller yields, from a catchment of only 22 million people? Why not increase our catchment to a potential billion people
( i.e LAX and AUH hubs) and bring our OWN passengers to feed our OWN domestic network, supported too by an increasing domestic corporate yield? All future growth ( in numbers, not yield) in domestic will ONLY be achieved by driving inbound passengers onto our domestic operation. Apart from alliances to help achieve this, I envision an expansion of our longhaul network".
Sounds very clever to me..., and gives me confidence that our (now) money-making longhaul operation will be around for a while yet.
In the meantime, I hope longhaul can continue to pay-back / support the domestic operation thru the changes and forthcoming EBA as they have supported the long haul start up operation.
In his words...., "Why bust a gut to win a fare-war against 3 other carriers for increasingly smaller yields, from a catchment of only 22 million people? Why not increase our catchment to a potential billion people
( i.e LAX and AUH hubs) and bring our OWN passengers to feed our OWN domestic network, supported too by an increasing domestic corporate yield? All future growth ( in numbers, not yield) in domestic will ONLY be achieved by driving inbound passengers onto our domestic operation. Apart from alliances to help achieve this, I envision an expansion of our longhaul network".
Sounds very clever to me..., and gives me confidence that our (now) money-making longhaul operation will be around for a while yet.
In the meantime, I hope longhaul can continue to pay-back / support the domestic operation thru the changes and forthcoming EBA as they have supported the long haul start up operation.
Sounds very clever to me..., and gives me confidence that our (now) money-making longhaul operation will be around for a while yet.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Sadly I have to agree especially as I'm a SFO who as been screwed for any promotion. The CFO have a good future, skippers have the money where we have nothing except looking out the window but hey, it's a job but that's it sadly.
RF
Quote:
Sounds very clever to me..., and gives me confidence that our (now) money-making longhaul operation will be around for a while yet.
Agreed, but most likely this will be through the 330s down the track IMHO.
RF
Quote:
Sounds very clever to me..., and gives me confidence that our (now) money-making longhaul operation will be around for a while yet.
Agreed, but most likely this will be through the 330s down the track IMHO.
Pack and Pay, you guys are a little loose with the truth. Yes, "international" DID make a 22m profit... but NONE of that came from V Australia (B-777). You should be thanking the guys and gals at Pacific Blue!
Last edited by air command; 3rd Oct 2011 at 23:41. Reason: clarify a point
Ah not quite.
VAustralia broke even.
International routes operated by PB and Virgin Australia made the profit.
Try and get on a DPS/HKT flight and you may have an idea where the profits are comming from.
ANZ code share may have actually helped PB profitability a bit as well.
VAustralia broke even.
International routes operated by PB and Virgin Australia made the profit.
Try and get on a DPS/HKT flight and you may have an idea where the profits are comming from.
ANZ code share may have actually helped PB profitability a bit as well.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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with all the congrats + bitching and moaning, it might be worthwile to look at a bigger picture as some perhaps already are. New management with a fresh attitude to pilots and staff. That's worth gold in the current climate. Am I being paid enough to live comfortably and is there ultimately prospect of promotion? Probably is the correct answer. Not that long ago promotion occured when someone died at the top. How quickly we forget, or perhaps for newbies, never experienced. A company growing when many predicted failure, management listening to staff, and trying to provide good remuneration in a global climate where pilots are being sacked, having conditions removed or reduced. I would say we need to get someperspective, be a little satisfied with our 'lot' in life, and get on with making both VA and VB a roaring success. Beating our chests ALL the time for more more more, will ulitmately result in less less less.
IMHO
IMHO
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Amen, Big Brother. Making sure we get the best possible deal goes without saying, & I don't consider myself a groveller or company "yes" man by any means. Nevertheless it's more than just $$$, & whilst I'm never going to say no to more money in my pocket each fortnight, I'd like to see more emphasis on things in the next EBA that will improve our quality of life instead of just bleating about pay. And as for what you said, I only have to look at our colleagues over the road at that former, once iconic airline, to be reminded that right now we've got it pretty damned good anyway. I have spoken to JB & Sean Donahue on a few occasions in recent months (either through the regular teleconference calls or having them onboard one of my flights), & I am deeply appreciative of the goodwill & encouragement these men have shown me & my workmates. Why the senior management of that "other" airline have failed to grasp a basic rule of business - being that if you treat your staff with dignity & respect, they will more readily go the extra mile for you than by treating them with the opposite - is quite simply beyond me, but I digress...
In the interests of the long term future of this airline - & our careers - a little less chest-beating & a little more mutual understanding/co-operation between individuals, unions & company management is what is really needed.
In the interests of the long term future of this airline - & our careers - a little less chest-beating & a little more mutual understanding/co-operation between individuals, unions & company management is what is really needed.
