Virgin Australia Long Haul International EBA is up!!

[Biatch]

Originally Posted by Vorsicht

I like your style Biatch, never let facts get in the way of blaming everyone else for something you don't understand.

I'm assuming you didn't like my reference to lesser blame being the unions.

The point of my post was primarily to show the justification of CPD to Duxnutz as a response to the effect the LH EBA had on SH pilots.

Facts

Ugh.... You got me... Point taken... Thanks for the correction... That is what I meant.

Sure, I take your point (again) but they did vote for it none the less (which I would have too!). Whilst they are more than entitled to expect what they voted up occurring (of course), I was merely tying to suggest/show that what they voted on affected a group of pilots who had no input.

Look obviously I apparently have the timeline / blow by blow slightly wrong. Or at least from your perspective I do. It did not seem this way to me from the communications I received/read and also from the way LH pilots I spoke to spoke about it. IE it was always in the past tense "we voted this in" , hence the inference that they negotiated what they voted in. I was not directly involved in negotiations no, so I apologise if I got wrong the exact circumstances the offending clauses were introduced.

Yes, I am quite aware of this. Again my point was to show they downtrodden CRZFO's how what they voted on might be/seem unfair to a group of pilots directly affected with no right to vote. And also how CPD is a reasonable/justified compromise.

If such a sh*tfight was forecast then may I politely ask why a no campaign wasn't run?

So in short.
The Company was entirely to blame.
The industrial instruments worked exactly as they should have. LH pilots voted on their document without any interference from SH pilots. SH pilots addressed perceived issues in their document without any interference from LH pilots.
End result that nobody particularly happy, which in general usually means about the right outcome.

Agreed. Please tell downtrodden and marginalised CRZFO's that it's all evenly shared!

If you're not happy with the way your union is representing you, get of the couch and onto a committee and have a real say rather than criticising those who give up their own time and work tirelessly for nothing, for your benefit.

Again, primarily the blame I apportioned to the company.

Originally Posted by DUXNUTZ

So the practical bottom of the list (behind every short haul pilot hired behind them) wasn't good enough for you? I enjoy the contemp that's still evident for present and past CRFO's/SO's, but with every year that passes there's more to help guide any future EBA negotiations.

No it is good enough for me. What you're alluding to, CPD, was the best fix for the affect SH pilots had felt from the apparent company's imposition. If there is contempt on the line for CRZFOs, it's because they fail to see/recognise that what was voted in affected a large group of pilots who had no vote! I get that you're pissed that what you voted in got diluted/adjusted through the implementation of CPD. Hell, if I were in your shoes I would be too. But can you not see the flip side??

RE the pay topic that is being brought up now... I think it's quite reasonable to expect that CRZFO's earn more than CS/FM's at any pay/year level. Whilst respecting the work that they do in the cabin, at the end of the day, the personal cost of the training alone to get into any control seat justifies a larger pay.

[Berealgetreal]

Maybe when the engine overheat light comes in the middle of the night across some ocean the SO should ask the FM for guidance on the matter.

It's only fair, they to have had to do the same number of exams, medicals etc.

The fact the salaries are even close shows how far the industry has gone. I recall that they wanted to combine the Ebas at one stage. What a cancer.

As for the GDOJ, it's been and gone let's move on as there are current issues that are more pressing.

As I understand it, the only priority/seniority domestic FO's have is on VAA commands which have also have an expiry. Keep in mind that VAA will only shrink and every other entity (including Alliance) will continue to grow as has been the case for 6 years now so the SO's will certainly have their chance to demonstrate command/fm potential.

Meanwhile the word on the street in the recent round is that the widebody FO slots are all going to Narrowbody Captains.

2012 EBA - what a cracker that was for the FO/SO group! Maybe we should bury the hatchet and have a few beers at Brighton Le Sands.

[Jet Man]

I think I'd ask the FM as well if the Engine Overheat light came on in a 777

Seriously though, reading the deed I don't think the VAA FOs have any time limit for their command priority over SOs/CRFOs.

Also, from memory, recently all of the FO positions at longhaul have been filled by narrowbody captains.

[BPA]

10 of the 15 widebody (majority A330) FO slots went to narrowbody Captains.

[Falling Leaf]

10 of the 15 widebody (majority A330) FO slots went to narrowbody Captains.

What does that say about either the desirability of flying the B737 or life on the SH roster?

[porch monkey]

According to management, nothing!!!!

[Ten Two Hundred]

So it's official, SO remuneration offer less than what was offered back in 2014 and much less than the CSM (and probably a SGT/WOFF loadmaster).

No new join SO got a goodwill payrise in 2015. Is it even on the radar to get backpay to 2014 that cabin crew were recently awarded?

[Altimeters]

Is it even on the radar to get back pay to 2014 that cabin crew were recently awarded

As far as I know yes, but the company will try to use it as a tactic no doubt to get the vote up on the first go.

[viewsonic]

Can anyone share the remuneration offer for SO's under the new agreement?

[Barry_Crocker]

All of a sudden it's a big rush to get the EBA signed off. One would think that the union's had a bit more leverage as there is now a deadline for new international routes.

Nope, let's get this signed off fast as it's all about "good will".

The bus drivers will be excited as they are going somewhere other than PER (hopefully make their first dollar).
Surprised the company didn't charged general admission on weekends for entry to the 330 static displays.
777 drivers will keep practicing on the LA.

[Berealgetreal]

Get hold of the cabin crew agreement should have the details there. Apparently the target is just above the FM.

[viewsonic]

Hopefully you're referring to the FM level 2 + super. Sounds ballpark, for inflation only increases over the last 5 years.

[kirkbridge]

Exactly bazaa, why good will all of a sudden after literally YEARS of being messed around??

Park a tripler (and I hear it got damn close recently) and watch em dance.

[coaldemon]

What you heard was garbage. Only B777's being parked are for heavy maintenance. One in November and some early next year.

[Donald Trump]

Until my election campaign, I didn't realise how rigged the system was and how far left the Australian media had actually gone. This is exactly how rigged pprune is against pilots.

To all those pilots out there fighting for a fair deal, don't listen to these hacks. Hang in there, the beginnings of a revolution against the airline establishment is in progress.

- - -

"Make Aviation Great Again"

[VHFRT]

I think the point being made was that a service was nearly canned recently as there were no SO's to be found (frantic calls were being made 15 minutes prior to sign on).

[Bluewhine]

Hahahaha !
Good luck getting that offer voted up.
2% of nothing.

[ReBjorn]

My favourite bit was where they expect me to be $1600 worse off than now

[grrowler]

Rebjorn, I'm not posting in support of the offer in any way(well as outlined in the union update), however I would suggest that the figures shown are excluding super (as most normal EBA's are) and therefore there would be a payrise. Unless I'm missing something....

[ReBjorn]

Hopefully that's the case grrowler!
Haven't seen anything mentioned either way, and since the current one is archaic in showing inc super figures I didn't want to hope otherwise.

Email summary was sent out by afap to members this afternoon.