ATC IssuesA place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.
I personally would rather not go on strike and as an ATSA I believe that NATS will try to get rid of me way before I retire (got to get there first!) but I am a member of the union and the union is only as strong as its members. The unions have negotiated very good terms and conditions for ATSAs and ATCOs and I benefit from the unions strength so therefore I will back whatever the decision of any industrial action ballot.
Location: Where the singing aardvarks told me I should be but when they stop singing I'm gonna escape
Posts: 1,080
Sorry, but I don't see the relevance of 'families with a newborn'. Are we assuming that all ATCOs with newborn children are at the bottom of the scale or potless? Anyhoo, any pay lost is relative to the salary, ie if you're nearer the bottom of the scale or at a lower banded unit then you will lose less money.
Can I afford to lose two or three days money over six weeks if we were to strike, well in the short term, no. In the long term where my pension is affected, a couple of days' pay is small change compared to what we will lose. I've already lost by transferring my old CAAPS pot (and other pension pots) into the NATS section pension when Brizzel came into NATS. Many of my colleagues transferred their pensions in as well and are looking at having less years than they would have in their old scheme, when retirement comes around.
If you folks did walk out an hour/shift or whatever, it would be worth the annual licence fee to see The Red Barron enjoying a 'Bar Stool Session' with Mr Paxman.
"Now here's your starter":- "Our air is not for sale". C'mon, C'mon.
I can not believe those who are suggesting student ATCOs or those with new-borns could be considered as almost exempt from strike action due to their financial situation. It is these people who have the most to lose. I am totally inept when it comes to any knowledge of pension matters but I`m not so stupid that I don`t know that it these very people who need to take the very short term financial hit to secure their long term future. I`m not even in the Nats scheme at the minute but I felt the need to comment
I joined the union simply to protect myself.I am fully prepared to walk out if it happened.I know that some people would elect to cross a picket line and still expect to benefit from the action.That is their fundamental RIGHT.I will stand on that picket line FULLY AWARE.Thats fine for me.
As for the people saying that they should be called scab etc etc.What planet are you on?How unprofessional could you possibly be?Whatever happened to TRM? You do realise you would end up being accused of BULLYING and HARRASSMENT?
Exactly, if people aren't prepared to stick together as a team then they can expect bad feeling towards them. This is historical due to other people having to fight for the rights of all workers. They have a right not to strike, I have a right to think they're a scab!
Believe me I would be one of the first to walk out of the door (I also have a young baby and a huge mortgage!) but it is an individual's right to choose.
ITRW
yes, you do;
Quote:
I have a right to think they're a scab!
But you do not have the right to say it to their face or to anyone else for that matter.
joining the union to protect yourself. Sounds like you are expecting to be having airmisses all over the place on a regular basis and will need their protection. And from your grip on reality, it sounds like you are a bit of a space cadet too. I have met many people like you over the years and i normally amuse myself listening to their ramblings when they are standing outside shopping centres shouting at buses
It is very scary when you meet them in air traffic though.
It is your right to break a picket line if you want to be known as a scab. SCAB SCAB SCAB.
Nothing to do with being unprofessional, its all about sticking together as a union.
I wonder what union means...............wheres that dictionary gone.
I find it almost impossible to fathom why someone would join the union then not abide to what ever action the union decides to take and the majority agree with. You might as well save yourself the monthly subscription. At least that way you could argue that you weren't in the union and would have to go into work.
Being part of the union but expecting others to fight your battles and then reap those rewards is beyond me.
It seems quite clear to me. If we don't put up some kind of fight against this tinkering of our T & Cs, then it will just continue until there is nothing left. The pension has to be about the biggest thing to stand up and protect. If we are seen to let it be taken away from us, then there will be no stopping management from continuing with everything else, knowing we are a push over. Would our colleagues in France, Spain or Italy let it happen? I think not.
I, too, am with Emma on this one... I personally would be out on the picket line with everyone else, but the issue of "do you cross the line, or not" is a matter of an individual's conscience.
Yes, in order to succeed on this issue, we will need to show a level of unity that I've never seen in NATS for the last 18 years that I have been employed by them, but all of this "scab" nonsense is beyond me.
It reminds me of the Miners strike. Have we really not come forward in 20 years?
Anyone who DOES cross a picket line will be under an awful lot of pressure from their peers and from others (work related and non-work related), and will do so for their own reasons. They may well have personal reasons (and not just big mortgages or debts) for doing so that neither I, nor anyone else has a right to know about.
I'm not saying that anyone who crosses the line should be supported by those out on strike, but neither should they be bullied nor harassed. Indeed, the union should stand up for ANYONE being treated in this way, and I'm sure NATS management would too.
Personal attacks and bullying other members of staff would hardly ease relations during any such strike action, in fact it would probably cause a breakdown of the unity of those out on strike. I for one, and I'm sure there are MANY others, would support strike action to save our pensions, but WOULD NOT support ANYONE who bullied or attacked someone in this way.
You could easily find yourself accused of gross misconduct and be sacked without any support from the union, nor ANY pension rights.
As for the people saying that they should be called scab etc etc.What planet are you on?How unprofessional could you possibly be?Whatever happened to TRM? You do realise you would end up being accused of BULLYING and HARRASSMENT?
I dont think any bullying harrassment policy could be applied on an official picket line, which would be outwith NATS property and not whilst in NATS official employment duties ? I do agree though distasteful comments (SCAB) don't help things.
That's exactly what I was trying to say, but you put it a lot more eloquently than I ever could.
Others
Leave her alone! I've looked back on this thread and at no point did Emma say she wasn't going to strike - she was just saying what at least 3 of us have now said that individuals have the right to choose.
she was just saying what at least 3 of us have now said that individuals have the right to choose.
Yes, last I heard Britain was still a democracy comrades. Bullying and harassment are totally out of order and, as amply posted about in another thread, will be stamped on in the workplace.
I agree that bullying should not be tolerated under any circumstances.
However should it ever get to the situation of strike action, and I hope sincerely that it doesn't, it is imperative that management don't try to wave fists full of fivers under people's noses to encourage them to go into work. It will be easy for this to occur and potentially lead to an even more divided workforce after the action is over.
TRM will not know what's hit it should this situation ever occur. There is no one and I mean no one who can't afford to lose a couple of days pay to protect the jewel in the crown.
JonG-I assume you mean the students? Well just have a look what an individual earns over the curse of their career if they validate. More than before the "pay cut". It was just not sensible to have a trainee in the system for upto 4 years on nearly £30k a year and potentially never get a days productivity out of them. Or was that OK??
The trainee pay cut was a disgrace. To put a few extra pennies on top of the scale that was not needed.
The problem with wasted money on trainees was not the length of the course. It was the length of time that their training was continued. The "chop" needed ot happen at the college, there were many people who got out of that place with no hope of validating.
Very strong opinions on the topic of striking from everyone on here.
Was anyone around in previous strikes? what is your relationship like with scabs from back then today?
If you would rather not say on here, any chance of a pm?
I have no intention of bullying or harassing anyone, and never have done! I will make my feelings clear and will happily speak out on such matters, as I know will many of my colleagues and as is our right! I don't know where you people who think it's ok to cross the picket line work but if it's on my watch you certainly keep your head down! I can't think of many reasons to cross the line, we all have commitments to keep and I am sure those not in the union could join at the last minute if they actually care about the pension.
Linear Mode
