SOUTHEND - 4

[tophat27dt]

Southend airport has so much to offer in the way of news, rumours, sensible discussions and debates. This new thread is for those members who have a genuine interest to contribute and discuss the newest and most modern of the regional airports in the UK. Thank you.

[Expressflight]

Just to start the ball rolling on this new, clean thread I should imagine that Cityjet's announcement of a LCY-DRS daily service commencing on 28th March 2013 will result in OLT's DRS-SEN route ambitions being terminated. I can't realistically see SEN being able to compete with a similar service into LCY on any primarily business route.

On a more positive note, I think easyJet may announce a new S13 route from SEN in the next few days.

[Tagron]

Whilst my inclination is to agree with Expressflight's assessment, I suppose that if OLT Express were determined to make a go of DRS-SEN, they could adopt on a daily basis the schedule they have already used for their Saturday service, i.e SEN arrival 0720, depart 0750. This would not be in direct conflict with the City Jet afternoon service, in fact the two operations could be complementary. Of course this begs the question of whether there would be sufficient traffic potential to support two operators.

[tophat27dt]

It will be very interesting to see what the total demand will be from DRS to London in general. Maybe there could be a demand for a Saab 2000 into SEN on a morning service, but I do feel sorry when an airline has plans and then a competitor jumps in to do the same, albeit up the road at LCY. Watch this space, I guess.

[tayair6]

CityJet is launching two new routes to Germany from London City airport from April 2013.


Bookable from today, flights to Dresden will start on 1 April 2013 and to Paderborn on 22 April 2013.

[tayair6]

A FLEDGLING firm offering valet parking for Southend Airport passengers says it is determined to succeed, despite attempts to squeeze it out of the market.

Southend Airport Car Park, which only got off the ground in April, predicts it will create 25 jobs for local people by next summer and continue to grow.

[asdf1234]

A FLEDGLING firm offering valet parking for Southend Airport passengers says it is determined to succeed, despite attempts to squeeze it out of the market.

Southend Airport Car Park, which only got off the ground in April, predicts it will create 25 jobs for local people by next summer and continue to grow. 4th Dec 2012 11:26

If they are the guys on the Aviation Way business park then they look to have a good set-up. I saw them a few weeks back and already their car park was pretty full. They run a mini-bus service to the terminal which I imagine takes less than 5 minutes to do the trip.

Good luck to them - this is what airport expansion is all about!

[tws123]

Also just to let you know that from an email, OLT say they expect to announce their summer schedule in the next week or so. They say they are not sure if this will include the Dresden route or not but basically wait for the timetable release for the answer.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Expressflight

I tend to agree..The last thing SEN needed with OLT, was competition from London City.
Judging from what happened earlier with OLT, I reckon they where half hearted with SEN at best.

Maybe Tagron is right about tinkering with the schedule times, but that is assuming that OLT Express are that committed.

SEN will prosper without them anyway, we are in the middle of a recession, and SEN has expanded anyway..Stobart seems committed to SEN, and that's what matters..New routes will come..

[cornishsimon]

Any suggestions on the new EZY route ? Iv heard NQY are set to make an announcement some time this week, probably just a coincidence


cs

[tophat27dt]

quite a few local people have expressed their wishes to see some domestic flts from SEN including the West Country......we will soon find out.

[cornishsimon]

Well it would be lovely to see EZY at NQY on a scheduled basis rather than training, god knows NQY needs it !!


cs

[8674planes]

It will be good if they do or are planning to fly to NQY. I know that the Classic Airforce are moving from Coventry to Newquay next year. I could make a daytrip out of it!

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

.

asdf1234. I stand to be corrected, but I believethat the firm with the car park in Aviation Way is an outfit called ‘MapleManor’ and not the ‘fledgling’ business to which you refer and which is possibly SACP. Seems odd to me that they only provide mobile phone numbers.

[goldhanger]

The Car Parking firms story is in the local rag

Airport parking firm succeeds against the odds (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/10082407.Airport_parking_firm_succeeds_against_the_odds/)

[EI-BUD]

Expressflight, is the new easyjet route summer route to Nice.?
Ei-bud

[asdf1234]

LORD GUMBOIL

Next time I'm at SEN I will check. I thought I saw a SACP at the Aviation Way site (near to the hotel?) But will confirm next time I'm there.

I think any airport expansion has to provide benefits for the local economy or else opposition will surface so these "park and ride" schemes are good for the locals.

Did anyone else see the press stories that Stobarts attempts to sell a retail bond to raise finance has failed? Will this affect the expansion at SEN or was the cash raising for the trucking business?

[tayair6]

Newquay is possible one for easy jet fourth aircraft third route

[cornishsimon]

Newquay is possible one for easy jet fourth aircraft third route



Interesting, got to wait and see if its announced then !

I know that Ryanscare had good loads on the twice daily STN-NQY until they fell out with CCC about landing charges, council wouldnt back down and now Ryanair dont operate to NQY.

I know loads dont = profit but it proves that a market exists LON-NQY other than LGW-NQY.

It would certainly be nice to see EasyJet launch its first route @ NQY



cs

[Expressflight]

EI-BUD

I honestly don't know what the route is, although the NQY idea would fit in with something that was said to me about the route to be announced.

[8674planes]

How is Southend Coping with the Snow and ice this morning?

[Tagron]

My understanding of the now discontinued Stobart bond issue is that its stated purpose was to raise £25 million partly to replace some existing loans, and partly for general expansion of the business. It appears not to have been linked publicly to any particular project.

It seems there was poor take up by retail investors, and Stobarts attributed this to the entry into the market of larger bond issues at higher coupon. They have said they would still consider using this method of raising finance in the future.

[asdf1234]

Amsterdam outbound 07:30 delayed until 08:45.

[photoman27]

Easyjet announcement will be made tomorrow.

[insuindi]

According to German press reports OLT Express will not start on the SEN-DRS route as planned for the summer period.

[tophat27dt]

It comes as no surprise that the DRS flights will not start up again following competition from CityJet into LCY. We now wait for news from EZY and the new Join! airlines.

[Barling Magna]

..... and another rumour concerns Skywork, who apparently are giving serious consideration to SEN as an alternative to LCY for their Bern schedule due to the rising landing charges at LCY......

[tophat27dt]

I love the idea of poaching business from other airports.....back in the 70s and 80s, Stansted and Gatwick poached traffic away from SEN, and we were left with nothing.....so I hope Stobart is going out and offering some good deals.

[Ringwayman]

Service by easyJet to Newquay is bookable - 3 weekly from 20th June.

[cornishsimon]

Well 3 weekly is a nice start !
You never know, could see increases at some stage and then further routes for EZY at NQY in the future



cs

[tophat27dt]

The airline emailed to say they have no plans to operate from SEN.

[tayair6]

AMBITIOUS plans to create 6,200 jobs on new business parks around Southend Airport have been rubber-stamped.

Southend Council has approved the final version of its joint area action plan - a blueprint drawn up with colleagues at Rochford District Council to set out the future of land around the airport.

[mikkie4]

something extra for the nimbys & tree huggers to moan about

[Barling Magna]

Encouraging words from EZY on the SEN website:
Hugh Aitken, easyJet UK Commercial Manager commented"London Southend Airport is our newest and fastest growing UK base with over 400,000 passengers travelling with easyJet since its opening in March this year. We’re fully committed to delivering services from the airport which meets the needs of business and leisure travellers alike and sure that this new route will prove very popular.”

[davidjohnson6]

Barling - much as I'd like to believe in it, you're quoting nothing more than a standard corporate press release that happens to be from Easyjet. The comment you're quoting is just something that the Echo can quote in a news article for publication - Easyjet are not saying anything of substance to which they are committed - it's just warm and fluffy waffle that might attract a few more bookings from the residents of Southend in the hope that they have an airport that can compete with Gatwick on their doorstep.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Barling - much as I'd like to believe in it, you're quoting nothing more than
a standard corporate press release that happens to be from Easyjet.


I am not sure what you mean..
Southend Airport is our newest and fastest growing UK base with over
400,000 passengers travelling with easyJet since its opening in March this
year.

400.000 passengers since March, could mean SEN is their fastest growing airport..What are you saying?..This is just in percentage terms?. I mean standard press release or not, is irrelevant if what is said is true..Or am I not reading your post correctly?.

[davidjohnson6]

Ernest - what I mean is that a comment in a corporate press releases is just designed to make Easyjet sound warm and fuzzy and a general good egg in the world. Easyjet won't *lie*, but this kind of comment is essentialy just corporate waffle, and in this case the comment about Easyjet's commitment to Southend is meaningless drivel which can be reversed in an instant if Ms McCall so desires.

[Ernest Lanc's]

and in this case the comment about Easyjet's commitment to Southend is
meaningless drivel which can be reversed in an instant if Ms McCall so
desires.

davidjohnson6 - Thank's for that. Now I see where you are coming from. I suppose you get that PR at all airports..
LS were pledging support for BLK, even while they had took BB to court over opening hours, and they won.

[tophat27dt]

so what? Please don't argue with everybody's input to this thread, or nobody will bother anymore. Thank you.

[Expressflight]

Actually I think the reaction to davidjohnson6's comment was a little harsh. What he said is basically true and while it's nice to see easyJet saying in print that they are "fully committed" to SEN it really is only the usual corporate-speak.

Let's please try to be a bit more tolerant when people say things we might not necessarily like nor agree with. The last five posts give me a feeling of deja vu unfortunately.........

[Expressflight]

It seems that the "JOIN" Press Release may be delayed a little longer - possibly even until after Christmas. There are a lot of details such as slot allocations to be finalised first and they don't want the PR to raise as many questions as it answers. I think once the announcement is made it will be clear to most why the operation has taken time to get up and running.

It looks like Cityjet may be stopping their LCY-EIN route; I wonder if SEN-EIN might work for them.

[Barling Magna]

As the poster who prompted DJ6's remarks I'm happy to say that I took no offence at them either. He's quite right to be cynical about corporate PR speak, but, on the other hand, it is encouraging to see positive things said which is all I wrote in my post. A couple of years ago EZY were denying any interest in SEN at all.

[davidjohnson6]

Express - how would a SEN-EIN compete effectively against an existing STN-EIN ? Not saying it can't work, just pondering who would fly it and a reason for potential profitability

[Expressflight]

You may well be right. To be honest I just threw that idea in so that we could start discussing 'Airlines, Airports & Routes' again rather than dissecting each others posts. SEN-GRQ is perhaps a more realistic proposition.

[Barling Magna]

What is the special attraction of GRQ? Wouldn't Copenhagen be a better bet?

[wyld1]

I was wondering if flights to EDI and GLA would work at SEN

[Expressflight]

Groningen is located in one of the main tourist areas of Holland, is a prosperous city in its own right and is close to the largest onshore gas field in Europe. Travel time by rail to AMS is 2hr20, with the earliest train arriving at 07:52 making a day return AMS-LON rather difficult; by road it is a 2hr00 journey, so a double daily GRQ-SEN might find a viable market. VLM used to operate GRQ-LCY via AMS, which made the service not very attractive. It might be the sort of niche route which SEN could successfully serve with something like a 50-70 seater - provided it had timings which were properly served from Liverpool Street. That really does need sorting out, but I'm not quite sure how with Network Rail up to now being adamant that they won't open the line earlier than at present.

[Barling Magna]

Thanks Expressflight; that makes good sense. No doubt you are trying to persuade JOIN! to use an ATR72 on the Groningen route.

Re. the lack of early trains, we need the return of Channel Coachways (I'm sure you'll remember them). Surely an early morning coach service would work? Traffic is not too bad at that time of the day on the A127 or A13.

[Phileas Fogg]

Re. Gronigen Expressflight,

You quote an AMS/GRQ/AMS round trip rail journey time of 4.67 hours and you cite that this makes life, so to speak, difficult for day returns.

LON/GRQ/LON. Just how many punters actually want, will utilise, round trip day returns LON/GRQ/LON? ... I would suggest very few!

But serve AMS then there will be all the punters connecting to KLM, and others, internationally whilst connections may also be offered to/from GRQ.

Is a night in a GRQ hotel such a hardship for a corporate businessman ... your reasoning of a SEN/GRQ/SEN route is a very weak reasoning to say the least!

[Expressflight]

Phileas

I really see that route as being primarily GRQ-LON for business travellers on a day return basis, rather than vice versa as you suggest and I thought I quite had clearly said that GRQ-LON-GRQ is a difficult day return due to the train timings, not the other way around. Apologies if I wasn't completely clear on that point. I think your conclusion has perhaps been drawn on a misunderstanding of my "reasoning".

Do I understand correctly that you feel an existing SEN-AMS service precludes a SEN-GRQ route being viable? Are you actually suggesting that someone would nowadays consider operating a LON-AMS-GRQ route?

[rowly6339]

BM Wrote

Re. the lack of early trains, we need the return of Channel Coachways (I'm sure you'll remember them). Surely an early morning coach service would work? Traffic is not too bad at that time of the day on the A127 or A13.

Stobarts have a small fleet of mini bus/coach's some in Stobart air livery so it could be a nice little revenue stream for stobart air. Just my opinion.

[Red Four]

Seems there are no trains available on the 26th Dec to Southend from Liverpool Street, nor on the C2C line. That is a shame if you didn't want to drive or get a lift for your flight on the 26th.

Stansted Express service is operating however. Surely Southend town and airport deserves at least a skeleton service, as well as the other towns en-route. Perhaps something could be done in time for Boxing Day 2013? Seems strange that the airport is open and working, and yet the railway is not.

[compton3bravo]

Come on redfour where have you been for the last 20 odd years the UK does not have a joined-up transport system. You only have to look at the local bus routes in Bedfordshire hardly any to/from Luton Airport on a Sunday and the West Coast Main Line is to be closed for several days over the Christmas period. Do people really have to travel on a Sunday and Bank Holidays?

[vulcanised]

Does the X30 Aircoach not solve any problems?

[EuroChallenger]

Just an observation - we were on the M25 the other day and whilst Southend is signposted, Southend Airport is n't! As a comparison, Leeds/Bradford airport is well sign posted from the M1/M621/M606 and M62

[davidjohnson6]

Express has a point - Groningen and the area surrounding it are a complete pain to reach if flying to either the Netherlands or NW Germany. Even from Schiphol airport, the train takes 2h30. The next nearest non-tiddly airport is Bremen from which it takes even longer to reach Groningen by train. The guidebook I have on the Netherlands makes the area sounds quite appealing to visit, but I can't face spending 6 or 7 hours getting there from my home.

The only airlines I can think of that might possibly make a LON-GRQ route work are Cityjet, Ryanair, Flybe or Transavia, and none of them seem particularly likely to fly from GRQ to Southend.

[Pain in the R's]

AMBITIOUS plans to create 6,200 jobs on new business parks around Southend Airport have been rubber-stamped.

Southend Council has approved the final version of its joint area action plan - a blueprint drawn up with colleagues at Rochford District Council to set out the future of land around the airport.

There has been comment on the internet about traffic gridlock on the main roundabout outside the airport which is stopping passengers getting into the airport as shoppers head into and out of the adjoining retail park but who can’t find any parking spaces. The word chaos has been used to describe the jams which are getting worse as Christmas approaches. Once Christmas is out of the way it will be the January sales but apparently it is not only this time of year there has been problems.


Now there are plans to create 6,200 jobs on a new business park close to the airport. Together with extra passengers using the airport is the airport going to become a problem airport to get to by car or can anything be done to make the road access better?

[Expressflight]

Pain in the Rs

You quite correct regarding the very poor access to the terminal/car parks area. The problem seems to be the mini roundabout just beyond the main one, where traffic tails back while negotiating the speed bumps and finding parking spaces in the adjacent retail park. Quite how the highway authority allowed the existing layout to remain unchanged I don't know.

The newly announced business park will be accessed from the other side of the airfield fortunately so will not add to the terminal area congestion which, as you suggest, is likely to get worse until the road layout is changed; although there is little physical space to make major alterations.

[tophat27dt]

It would be interesting to hear what airport management think about this problem. If no passengers complain about it, then probably nothing urgently.
If the news was to hit the front page of the Evening Echo with a chaos photo, then maybe they'll get their heads together on the issue.

[SARF]

if chaos is having to wait a minute or two when its busy then they may do something about it. But there are far worse junctions to negotiate in Southend that will attract any council money first. They could use the old entrance at the other end of the hotel should things get unbearable.

[tophat27dt]

I agree that the other entrance could be used to avoid the roundabout. I read that sometimes it's more than 2 minutes to get in off the roundabout, but agree it's a hindrence rather than a disaster.:D

[maliyahsdad2]

You would have to use the cargo entrance, the old entrance between car park and hotel is now exit only and via barriers. One problem is that the preferred routing and signage sends drivers to cuckoo corner and manners way so you would still have to negotiate the blocked roundabout. Only those with local knowledge will know firstly, there is a problem to avoid, and secondly, to avoid it by using the new road at tescos or the bell turnoff and then eastwoodbury crescent.

[8674planes]

Southend's newest ground equipment. "Cand-ice" an Aircraft Deicing Rig.

Delivery of (http://www.mallaghan.co.uk/delivery-of-cand-ice-to-stobart-air-london-southend-airport/)

[LGS6753]

It is many years since I visited SEN, and I'm pleased to see it operating successfully under new ownership. I have been looking at it on Google Earth, and never realized the extent of the hangarage and aircraft parking in the Aviation Way area, NW of 06/24. The aerial shots (which pre-date the terminal construction) seem to show various 748/ATP type, a 146/RJ and light aircraft.
What lives there now?

Sorry if this sounds spotterish

[vulcanised]

There's a Vulcan hiding there somewhere.

Sadly, never likely to take to the skies again.

[TSR2]

There's a Vulcan hiding there somewhere

So there is. Its to the right of the taxiway to runway 24 and backing onto the railway line.

[tayair6]

it enjoy view and admiration the Airport

[tophat27dt]

The west and south areas of Southend are maintenance and storage areas. Mostly on the west side are lots of BAE146/RJ100 types awaiting new buyers. There are still a couple of HS748s there too.

[tayair6]

Some of storage plane been there 2 years or more

[Barling Magna]

An interesting test for SEN this evening, with half a dozen LCY diversions within a short space of time. Anyone know how the terminal coped?

[vulcanised]

Don't think there will be many more - freezing fog closing in rapidly.

[SARF]

If I can do a match at roots hall with extra time and penalties v bury in those conditions then I'm sure the airport can deal with a few LCY diverts !! Brrrrr

[Expressflight]

Vulcanised

SEN remained above minima all night and attracted 10 diversions in total, including Ryanair's Learjet. I don't think the terminal had any problems coping with the six airline diversions from LCY, which seem to be continuing into this morning as a Cityjet F50 has arrived recently.

[Steviec9]

Question: Why do some/all Cityjet F50 LCY diverts go into SEN, yet this mornings RJ flight from Amsterdam was held over south Essex for two or three circles and then diverted to STN?

[maliyahsdad2]

Not that it will make much difference yet, but as the airport gets busier and possibly attracts more diversions as it becomes more established, Do diversions count towards the annual movements cap?

[Barling Magna]

One RJ85 diverted to SEN last night while another attempted to, then headed off towards LGW and finally landed at STN. An EZY A319 landed at SEN later in the evening. Presumably it was simply the intermittent nature of the fog; it seemed to come and go at Roots Hall, so probably the same at SEN.

[Expressflight]

steviec9

Cityjet certainly normally use SEN for RJ diversions - as they did last night. The reason for the AMS diverting to STN wasn't due to wx at SEN being a problem this morning. I see that the IRVR system is now in use at SEN after a long period of certification testing.

[tayair6]

LCY plane just depart at SEN to Munster

[tws123]

Heard that Jonathan Rayner is leaving Southend to work up at Edinburgh Airport - What a good job he has done over the past few years for SEN and i'm sure he will be just as good, if not better at Edinburgh :D. Real shame to see him go, but it will be interesting to see who they select to fill the position and what airlines they can bring into SEN.

[vulcanised]

Man caught trying to board plane with shotgun at Southend Airport (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/10111447.Man_caught_trying_to_board_plane_with_shotgun_at_So uthend_Airport/)

[tayair6]

DAVID Beckham drove himself to Southend Airport in his jet black Bentley Continental, parked up and flew out to Dubai by private jet!

[Barling Magna]

Well, at least someone is using the "executive jet terminal" even if he chose it because he was avoiding the crowds......

[V_2]

Southend house prices up 15% in the last year, the highest rise in the UK. Would anyone with estate agent knowledge like to comment if such rise could be accredited to the airport expansion, putting Southend on the map etc? Certainly goes agaisnt what alot of the NIMBY brigade were claiming. To me seems like a good return for a bit of extra noise a day...

BBC News - House prices: Southend sees biggest house rise, at 15% (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20850856)

[jabird]

Top three risers and fallers

Southend: up 14.8%
Basingstoke: up 14.7%
Rochester: up 13.3%

Would appear to be more by virtue of being in the SE. No airport in Basingstoke, but I'm sure the airport has helped boost growth figures a little bit more on top of what may have been achieved without it.

[EuroChallenger]

I would say yes, the airport has probably helped a bit with house prices.

The airport has, without doubt brought jobs, whether it be directly or otherwise - such as the hotels, car hire etc.

People who are earning are likely to be spending too...

[Ernest Lanc's]

I doubt an airport has anything to do with a 15% rise in house prices. Maybe a little with the boost (mainly summer) to the local economy..

I wonder if hose prices At Bournemoth, Blackpool or Aberdeen have seen such price boosts to property?..

Southend must be a nice place to live and retire to, a bit like St Annes Nr Blackpool.

[Expressflight]

Ernest Lanc's

You obviously have never visited Southend! I'm not knocking the town of my birth, but there aren't many areas within the Borough that would put it at the top of your list for retirement.

I agree though that the SEN transformation will probably have had only a small positive effect on house prices this year. The objectors such as SAEN had claimed, of course, that prices would plummet over vast swathes of the town and that certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

[HZ123]

Spot on Expressflight ! However, it is gradually improving but some way to go.

[johnnychips]

Don't knock yourselves! Southend was one of the few places in the UK I hadn't visited so far so I went in May and found the shopping centre normal/above average, but the prom area and the pier excellent. May have helped sun shining and tide in. Only 50 mins from London, no wonder prices have risen. It's probably a bit too soon to see if the airport expansion has had any positive or negative effect, especially on those houses nearest the flightpath.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Don't knock yourselves! Southend was one of the few places in the UK I hadn't visited so far so I went in May and found the shopping centre normal/above average, but the prom area and the pier excellent. May have helped sun shining and tide in. Only 50 mins from London, no wonder prices have risen. It's probably a bit too soon to see if the airport expansion has had any positive or negative effect, especially on those houses nearest the flightpath."

There is no evidence that the presence of a flightpath adversely affects house prices. LHR's flightpath has some of the highest house prices in the UK, (certainly high enough to get some local MPs panicky about Vince Cable's proposed "mansion tax"!). Doubt if it's different at SEN.

[Barling Magna]

but there aren't many areas within the Borough that would put it at the top of your list for retirement.

Surprisingly Southend actually came out as the best place in the UK to retire in a 2006 report:

Southend-on-Sea 'best place to retire' | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-381380/Southend-Sea-best-place-retire.html)

.... and Southend has got better since then. The seafront regeneration is impressive and the Roslin Beach Hotel first class; the Palace Hotel which dominates the Pier Head cliff is being well renovated. The largest Waitrose in the UK. And now an airport which can fly you to your 3 month winter hibernation in Benidorm. What more can a retiree want....? I assume you'll be moving back in a few years time to put your feet up and bask in that view of the Isle of Grain, Expressflight?

[Expressflight]

Barling Magna

From your description of Southend now perhaps I should consider it. It's good to hear the place is on the up in general anyway.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Expressflight
I had a look on Google images at Southend, looks a decent place..

We are coming to Southend in late May, (English weather permitting)..I want to see the long pier and the airport...I had though of using SEN is the summer, but could not resists jet2s new Dalaman route from BLK..I will use the airport though at some stage..

[MARKEYD]

Sorry i am correct in thinking this is a grown up aviation discussion forum not a housing market !

come on ...

[asdf1234]

Saw a red and white B717 on the new terminal stands from across the airfield today. Does this mean the OLT-EXPRESS service has started again or is this still part of the advertised Xmas rotations?

[Expressflight]

Just a part of the scheduled Christmas/New Year programme - and it was an F100 by the way.

[Vxracing16]

I was plane spotting at Southend today and saw the Fokker 100 land and depart. Tomorrow is the last day it is coming to Southend. They have stopped the route to due competition from City airport and low payloads. Today, the plane stopped almost instantly, a sign of a light load.

Nice plane though, and captured some footage of it. :hmm:

[Cyrano]

Today, the plane stopped almost instantly, a sign of a light load.

Who needs CAA stats? :rolleyes:

[asdf1234]

Just a part of the scheduled Christmas/New Year programme - and it was an F100 by the way. 2nd Jan 2013 16:59

Thanks - I should have gone to Specsavers...

[Expressflight]

The numbers on the DRS yesterday were 38 and 36.

[Barling Magna]

Wrong equipment then. They need an ERJ-145 or F70/F50 .......

[s2art1e]

Expressflight - do you know what the loads were like generally over the Christmas and New Year period?

[davidjohnson6]

s2art1e - passenger numbers for Dec will be published in 10 days time (approx) on the CAA website...

[Expressflight]

s2art1e

Anecdotally I'm told they were satisfactory, but as dj6 says best to await the CAA stats.

[Barling Magna]

Makes you wonder what they could have achieved if they had advertised the service in the UK.....

[mikkie4]

just because OLT have moved the dresden flight to LCY,might they look to other destinations from SEN?

[davidjohnson6]

Mikkie - Cityjet (currently owned by Air France) have taken up the LCY-Dresden route. OLT have dropped all flights to the UK. OLT are retrenching big time - they have also dropped a number of other destinations recently. The chance of OLT opening a new route at Southend is nil.

[fatmed]

OLT are not doing LCY They have withdrawn completely from uk routes at present as Cityjet have launched DRS-LCY

[SWBKCB]

Don't want to re-open the housing debate, but Stobart's are claiming it in the local Carlisle press...

Mr Tinkler said: “The fact that house prices in Southend have strengthened more than any other town in the UK is testament to the social and economic benefits a regional airport can bring to an area"

News & Star | News | Carlisle airport revamp will boost house prices (http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/carlisle-airport-revamp-will-boost-house-prices-1.1025523?referrerPath=home/2.1962)

[Ernest Lanc's]

Again: Any economic benefit is going to be confined to work caused by the airport..

There IMO is no other sound reason why an airport should be the reason for a large increase in house prices..Also smaller airports tend to be more seasonable that the larger airports, just can't see SEN generating a 15% rise in the Southend housing market.
It has been mentioned that Southend as a resort has improved (see earlier in the thread), that is more likely to drive house prices higher, IMO.

[asdf1234]

The increase in employment directly attributable to the airport expansion will have a knock on effect on demand for rental properties in the immediate vicinity to the airport. This will not affect housing prices in the whole of the Southend area.

The economic benefit to Southend as a town derives from this increased employment and not from an increase in tourism as a result of the airport expansion. Most inbound foreign pax are destined for London and see Southend as a cheap uncongensted alternative to the other established ports of entry.

Typically the vast majority of new jobs created at an airport will be low paid shift workers (cleaners/retail workers/security/baggage handling). This stimulates demand for rental properties at the lower end of the housing market.

However there must be a reason for the house price increase. Other economic factors for Southend such as turnover per square foot of retail property are down so the message is at best mixed. The council do seem to have spent a lot of money of improving the sea front aspect which coupled with a spate of high end sea front developments being released on to the market may have skewed the housing statistics upwards.

Due to the huge increase in jobs created the airport expansion can be seen as good for Southend but I doubt the airport had anything to do with the housng price increases.

[vulcanised]

Hopefully, the increase factor will also soon apply to Stobart shares which are currently down around 20% of what they were not long ago.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Don't want to re-open the housing debate, but Stobart's are claiming it in the local Carlisle press..."

Wonder what LHR expansion will do for the value of my house.........

[Hangar6]

Me too can't wait for the upturn as Dublin Airport grew this year , but my house price went down.... again

Maybe airport expansion has nothing to do with my house price ?

I can only hope....

[Phileas Fogg]

You guys are funny :)

[Barling Magna]

Some good news from easyJet passengers here:

http://www.southendairport.com/news/latest-news/london-southend-airport-rated-highest-in-europe-by-easyjet-s-passengers/

[HZ123]

While we are at it shall we attribute the pull out by the Australasian consortium to bid for STN, entirely to SEN and the threat to STN business present and future ?

[asdf1234]

Barling, can't see that your link sends me to a news story - rather a promotional piece written by SEN management? Can you cut and paste the story?

I did read that SEN are offering FREE parking for a £1. I always thought free was zero, nada, zilch, nil pounds, not £1 but then I suppose that is inflation for you!

[davidjohnson6]

Regular readers of this thread will recall the appearance of a post every now and then about the lack of transport options to/from London and Stratford for early morning departures or late night arrivals.

Last thing I heard from the airport was a bland email saying "we're thinking about it" and a verbal conversation saying "we're trying really hard but nothing has happened yet"

Apart from a "Please Fat Controller, will you run some trains for us ? - Sorry, Thomas is bad tempered very early in the morning" dialogue, has anything actually come of these attempts ?
Has SEN given up even on the idea of getting a firm to run a couple of minibuses to meet the first and last flights ?

[Barling Magna]

Interestingly the link concerning the easyJet survey results has been removed from the Southend website. Perhaps they've jumped the gun......

[fatmed]

You can read the story on ITV Anglian news page. also on SEN and Easyjet twieet feeds.

[Expressflight]

davidjohnson6

As I understand it the situation remains what it was when this was previously discussed here: Network Rail will not reduce the length of the line's night closure period, so earlier trains from Liverpool Street cannot be scheduled. I understand that behind the scenes pressure continues in high places to get NR to change this policy and that success is anticipated eventually.

The current lack of a train arriving at SEN before 06:30 certainly seems very unsatisfactory and I assume some alternative, such as a coach service, has been considered but I don't know of any plans for that to be initiated.

[rowly6339]

London Southend airport, Essex named best for customer service in easyJet poll | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2260710/London-Southend-airport-Essex-named-best-customer-service-easyJet-poll.html)

[SWBKCB]

Thank goodness there were no questions about arriving early by public transport!

On a less flippant note, lack of access by public transport is raised as an issue on many different airport threads, but is there any evidence on its impact?

[asdf1234]

For those who have not read it but want to[/B]
London Southend airport, Essex named best for customer service in easyJet poll | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2260710/London-Southend-airport-Essex-named-best-customer-service-easyJet-poll.html)]

Where do they get the 45 minutes journey time from? The train takes between 53 minutes and 1 hour and 16 minutes depending on what time of day you travel. The road journey substantially longer. Typically sloppy journalism from a down market fish and chip wrapper.

[davidjohnson6]

asdf - the wording in the Daily Wail article is
45-minutes from the capital

Stratford counts as being in London - at least in PR land. Any complaints from the public and just make reference to the Olympics

[Expressflight]

SWBKCB

You make an interesting point with regard to how much effect public transport, or the lack of it, impacts on an airport's success. One would have thought that if any of the pax in the survey had found this a real problem at SEN it would have been reflected in their satisfaction rating for the airport in general. The fact that it achieved 95% perhaps indicates that lack of a train arrival SEN before 06:32 is not as big a drawback as some suggest. There are normally three EZY early departures which are not served by a train arrival from London.

Look at SEN's potential for European arrivals - not yet an established part of their traffic mix - and the fact that between 07:00 and 08:20 there is a London train departure every 5 or 10 minutes with a journey time of less than an hour in every case. I would say that compares very favourably with STN or LTN in terms of speed of rail access to the capital. Perhaps we shall see the introduction of flights to take advantage of this in 2013.

[FRatSTN]

That would work well for Wizzair to move from LTN to SEN with the number of early arrivals there, but SEN could never cope with that volume of traffic.

[sam dilly]

I dont know if this has been covered here before but....

Last night I arrived into SEN at 22.10 for the 1st time in many years, the last time was on a BAF Viscount.

We were asked to wait on the aircraft for a few minutes after coming on stand, because of ' Terminal congestion', well the flight from Malaga was a few minutes early, so no objection.

When we were asked to disembark, we then stood in a queue, for more than 30 minutes in the freezing cold, just waiting to get into the terminal, for immigration.

To leave us stood in the freezing weather, - 1 degree + the wind chill factor, some elderly, and all tired, was really just not fair.

The immigration desks were fully staffed, so no fault there, just the fact that the terminal was too small.
Why not keep the passengers on board the aircraft, until the airport was ready for the passengers, after all we were early so it couldnt be a crew hours issue.
I really will avoid SEN, unless something can be done about this mistreatment of passengers.:(:sad:

[Expressflight]

sam dilly

I fully sympathise with you regarding that problem.

The Immigration arrivals area is totally inadequate to accomodate the numbers of passengers waiting to get to the desks; even one A319 can result in people standing out in the cold. The good news is that a new arrivals hall should open in May, this being the first part of the terminal extension to be built as the problem is well recognised by the SEN management.

As to the reason for the current situation, I think it's fair to say that no one anticipated that SEN would be home to three A319s within a couple of months of the terminal opening. When the terminal design was approved the assumption was that 50 to 80 seaters would mainly comprise SEN's traffic for the first year or so until the terminal could be extended to cope with larger/greater numbers of aircraft. It's become a victim of its own success really.

[LTNman]

You make an interesting point with regard to how much effect public transport, or the lack of it, impacts on an airport's success. One would have thought that if any of the pax in the survey had found this a real problem at SEN it would have been reflected in their satisfaction rating for the airport in general. The fact that it achieved 95% perhaps indicates that lack of a train arrival SEN before 06:32 is not as big a drawback as some suggest.

I think you have missed the point. For the passengers that a lack of an early or late train was a major issue would not have taken part in the survey because they would not have booked a flight via Southend so were excluded from the survey. Even without them this was a good result but then it should be for a small airport where times are minimal.

[FRatSTN]

Could EasyJet's timetable not be the cause of the terminal congestion rather than the actual amount. Below is the timetable for arrivals on Mondays for the peak period of the summer as they currently stand, when aircraft 4 is operational:



EZY7402 09:55 Amsterdam
EZY716 10:15 Belfast-International
EI3302 10:50 Dublin
EZY7430 12:10 Krakow
EZY7362 12:45 Faro
EZY7384 15:40 Barcelona
EZY7418 16:05 Alicante
EZY726 16:25 Jersey
EI3306 16:35 Dublin
EZY7374 16:55 Berlin-Schonefeld
EZY7406 18:50 Amsterdam
EI3308 20:50 Dublin
EZY7386 21:55 Barcelona
EZY7398 22:00 Venice-Marco Polo
EZY720 22:15 Belfast-International
EZY7436 23:05 Malaga

Of course the flights come and go in waves like at most airports, but SEN has long periods with nothing followed by a few at similar times. Nothing for almost three hours in the afternoon, followed by a 75 minute period with 5 arrivals.

I know the new arrivals hall will be done by then, but isn't an extra A319 for the summer going to sort of cancel that out, leaving similar levels of congestion? Plus what viable long term future is there if it's already at terminal capacity. They can't really just expand the terminal a bit year after year.

[Expressflight]

FRatSTN

Perhaps I didn't make the complete situation very clear in my earlier post, but the terminal extension now under construction (which will double the size of the existing 'new' terminal) will be open in its entirety by the end of 2013. But due to the particular problem with the current Immigration hall size, the part of the terminal extension which will form the new Immigration area will be completed first (by May this year) to resolve that problem.

I believe there is also a plan for a temporary departures hall extension, with an additional gate or two, to be added to the existing departures area to cater for this summer's traffic, as otherwise there would be severe congestion with only three boarding gates to serve four based A319s, plus the other SEN operators' aircraft.

[vulcanised]

You are so right about the timing oddities.

It is quite common for two A319s to arrive with Radar within seconds of each other, with one having to be 'sent round the houses' whilst the first one lands and exits the runway. Often, an ATR will add to the traffic too.

Then it all goes quiet until they are ready to depart, frequently within a few minutes of each other.

It does seem rather odd timing.

[8674planes]

I went past the terminal today and the first of the new steel structures is up!

[FRatSTN]

If you think of the route network, you can see why it happens though. Flights to AMS and BFS are of course going to go first thing to suit the needs for business travel and at similar flying durations, they come in at similar times. Apart from these, most other services are around 2 to 2.5 hours long each way so they again, conflict with each other.

It does seem somewhat deliberate though as EZY send the slightly longer BFS service out at 07:15 before the slightly shorter AMS flight at 07:30 so that they come back within 20 minutes of each other. You'd think they could swap them around so AMS could be back in at 09:40 and BFS at 10:30 to seperate them a bit but I'm not really sure how it works and whether that's down to slot availability or something or so immigration staff don't have long waits between arrivals.

[brian_dromey]

No immigration from BFS though, surely?

I would guess its down to a mix of handling agent costs and the times the market demands.

[Expressflight]

The CAA provisional stats show SEN having a throughput of 55,466 pax in December.

The new GVA route, which commenced 14th December as a 3 x weekly service, carried 2,666 pax. I believe there were also some additional Christmas flights so I haven't been able to calculate a load factor.

[8674planes]

Here's a picture of the new terminal extention: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=444589645606228&set=a.178528185545710.46213.130834463648416&type=1&theater

[asdf1234]

BBC News - Southend air show could be dropped by borough council (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-21023086)

The local council have decided to no longer fund the Southend Airshow and qwill vote on the proposal end of February. This could be a great opportunity for "London" Southend Airport to show their support for the local economy, townspeople and the general aviation community in general by being the new sponsor. Come on Stobarts - do the right thing!

[vulcanised]

Come on Stobarts - do the right thing!


Don't you think they've invested enough for now?

[tayair6]

yes. I think they invest enough .it is very unfortunately this time of year .

[asdf1234]

Quote:
Come on Stobarts - do the right thing!
Don't you think they've invested enough for now?

Er....no, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.

It would be nice for the local airport to reinvest some of their profits back into the community and what better way than to support the airshow. So far all the investment has been to generate future profits for Stobarts. The locals put up with the disruption such as increased traffic congestions and increased noise pollution so it seems this would be a good PR move by Stobarts.

Just an idea.

[vulcanised]

investment has been to generate future profits


Exactly. With much emphasis on the future which is some time away. I expect it will receive consideration when the time is right, although many locals have been suggesting the show had had it's day some time ago.

[Barling Magna]

SEN's little passenger terminal was overwhelmed yesterday by diversions from LCY. Once the extension is completed this shouldn't happen again.

[Expressflight]

They actually stopped accepting further LCY diversions yesterday evening. At one point six diverted aircraft arrived within a 30 minute period apparently.

Although there is unlikely to be terminal congestion once the terminal is doubled in size on these occasions, the five additional aircraft stands are already in use and these were all full last night. That will become the limiting factor in future when diversions occur.

[Throat]

re-funding an airshow, I'am sure they have better things to worry about.

Stobart closes chilled foods operation | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1598367_stobart-closes-chilled-foods-operation)

[Barling Magna]

Thanks for that link. Yes, challenging times for Stobart. I was struck by the following line from the article:

"Stobart said it was in talks with European airlines about bringing new routes to the airport."

They seem to say this in every press release. If true, I wonder which airlines they are in discussion with? Hopefully it is someone we've heard of rather than any more fantasy start-ups........

[Expressflight]

They seem to say this in every press release

You've probably answered your own question.

I don't know of anything definite in the pipeline at the moment.

[Barling Magna]

.... nothing to come from JOIN ?

[Pain in the R's]

With new owners at Stansted I would think that they will be keen to nip Southend expansion in the bud and could offer deals to keep airlines out of Southend.

[Expressflight]

..... nothing to come from JOIN ?

Not if what I heard yesterday is true.

[tws123]

Couldn't they operate SEN - WAT? That's a small regional route.
In a broader sense though are Join! actually getting somewhere even if not SEN related just yet?

[Barling Magna]

With new owners at Stansted I would think that they will be keen to nip Southend expansion in the bud and could offer deals to keep airlines out of Southend.

I doubt that MAG will be too worried about a competitor whose ambition is to reach only 2 million pax per year. They'll focus more on LTN and LGW I'd have thought.

[FRatSTN]

I doubt that MAG will be too worried about a competitor whose ambition is to reach only 2 million pax per year. They'll focus more on LTN and LGW I'd have thought.

Primarily yes, but most of what is at Southend now was orignally at Stansted and MAG will probably be quite eager to get it back.

[pwalhx]

Surely though as SEN is proving to be successful the routes will stay so STN may wish them in addition to rather instead off

[rowly6339]

Does the airport make much from diversion's seeing as there have been a few lately?

[Pain in the R's]

I doubt that MAG will be too worried about a competitor whose ambition is to reach only 2 million pax per year. They'll focus more on LTN and LGW I'd have thought.

Just look at London City and how that has grown on a very small footprint. When a target starts to be reached a new target is set. It happens at all airports. If and when 2 million passengers is reached at Southend do you really think that will be it? MAG will see Southend as a source of passengers in its catchment area. New routes and airlines that might have come to Southend with Stansted owned by BAA might not now and no one here will be any of the wiser.

[Barling Magna]

Yes I do think 2 million pax will be the limit, at least for a couple of decades or so. There's a limit to the number of movements imposed on SEN and the site is too restricted for much further expansion. Local opposition to further expansion would be too strong. Stobart's stated aim throughout has been to emulate Southampton Airport; their business plan is built on 2 million pax and I don't think they are going to extend themselves beyond that. 2 million pax is still a distant target at the minute and I can't see SEN attracting many more than that anyway. It's a niche airport - a minor part of the London airports scene - whilst STN has the potential to be massive if only they can sort out one or two logistical problems.

[Expressflight]

PitR's

Under current EU legislation I believe 2 mppa is the maximum throughput which permits the airport operator to keep all its services, such as handling, in-house. Above that figure these have to be opened up to competition. I cannot see Stobart happily relinquishing its control over such matters if its attitude to off-airport car parking companies is anything to go by. The extended terminal should be able to cope with some 2 mppa, but it's very difficult to see where extra terminal and stand capacity could be added due to the physical constraints of the site.

rowly6339

SEN obviously does gain extra revenue from diversions, but this would be a minor element of an airport's overall income. I'm sure they enjoy diverted pax sampling the service that SEN can offer as an alternative.

[mathers_wales_uk]

SEN obviously does gain extra revenue from diversions, but this would be a minor element of an airport's overall income. I'm sure they enjoy diverted pax sampling the service that SEN can offer as an alternative.

I believe the opportunity is there to make a heck of a lot of money off diverts as they are usually force to pay the published fees. This is not the case for scheduled flights or based aircraft which usually pay a highly discounted fee dependent on frequencies.

This only applies if full passenger handling is required as fuel & go earn little in the way of revenue unless they require de-icing.

[Expressflight]

I suspect that BA Cityflyer and Cityjet have handling contracts with SEN and don't pay the ad hoc 'rack rate'.

[mathers_wales_uk]

It all depends whether or not they operate scheduled flights from there on a day to day basis. Even if they did held some kind of diversionary contract with SEN it would still be more than the normal handling fees due to extra workload involved at short notice.

[Expressflight]

No doubt you are correct.

[LTNman]

Just want to add that when Luton got planning permission for its new terminal it was stated that the terminal had a capacity for 5 million passengers. It turned out that each passenger was given a generous amount of space. That same terminal has handled over 10 million passengers.

Is Southend’s 2 million limit the true physical limit or the claimed limit to keep the locals happy when planning permission was sort?

[Expressflight]

LTNman

From having used the existing terminal a number of times and looking at the plans for the extension now under construction, I would say it has the 'feel' of a 2mppa terminal. No doubt more could be squeezed through but I wonder if Stobarts may be happy to settle for 2mppa for reasons that I've stated previously on here.

[tayair6]

Aer Lingus Regional, operated by Aer Arann is adding extra seats to flights from London Southend to Dublin Airport on 9, 11 and 12 February 2013 to allow England rugby fans to go and cheer on their team.

The extra seats are being added to meet the demand of rugby supporters flying to and from Dublin for the England versus Ireland RBS 6 Nations game on Sunday 10 February.

[Pain in the R's]

Stobart must have had their fingers burnt with unpaid bills now that OTL have gone under.
Maybe they will learn a valuable lesson that accepting airlines and new routes from airlines that are struggling is not always a good thing.

Also does Stobart provide the fuel at Southend?

[davidjohnson6]

PintR - suppose you had been MD of a rather small Luton airport in 1994-95. You are pproached by an unknown startup company run by someone who knows only about shipping. The company does not have its own AOC, and has been rejected by more than 1 other London airport. It wants to operate flights to Scotland with a business model that breaks much of perceived wisdom as to how a profitable airline should be run.

What would you have said ?

[tws123]

Pain in the R's
"Maybe they will learn a valuable lesson that accepting airlines and new routes from airlines that are struggling is not always a good thing"

Lets be honest SEN didn't exaclty want to accept their operations when OLT announced the two routes. SEN wanted a March 13 start not a rushed October 12 start. They never really recognised their existance with no advertising, and very little mention of it on their website. I think SEN actually did the right thing. But of course you are right no airport wants struggling airlines.

[Pain in the R's]

davidjohnson6 I take your point, which you make very well. :\

I hope this hasn't cost Southend too much money but who does supply the fuel at Southend?

[Expressflight]

I assume that SEN supply the fuel themselves but don't know for sure. I was told that OLT didn't try to negotiate much in the way of discounts at SEN, so perhaps they didn't get much of a credit line either. Considering the strength of the company behind OLT (Panta Holdings), I don't think SEN can be criticised for agreeing to their commencing services. They weren't exactly a start-up were they, but an existing carrier that was changing its business model. Always sad to see the demise of any airline in my book.

[Tagron]

The following is copied from SEN’s Conditions of Use as published on their website:

3.4 Where an aircraft Operator has not used the Airport in the previous 12 months (as calculated from the date that the Operator proposes to commence operations), the Managing Director, or his nominated deputy of L.S.A.C.L. may at his discretion, require a deposit to be lodged with L.S.A.C.L. before Flights by that Operator commence. Any such deposit shall be paid to L.S.A.C.L.and shall be in such a sum as the Managing Director or his nominated deputy shall consider to be equivalent to the anticipated charges that the aircraft Operator shall incur (based on the anticipated number and type of Flight planned) for 3 months of operations by that Operator. Such deposit or the balance then remaining shall be refunded to the operator when 12 months of service have been completed in accordance with these Conditions of Use or when the Operator ceases to operate any Flights from the Airport (whichever shall first occur) subject to the right of L.S.A.C.L. (which is hereby reserved) to set off against any such deposit any appropriate charges that have not been settled in accordance with the above provisions.

Can anyone say if this deposit requirement for a new operator is a standard condition applied by airports ? And I wonder how discretion was exercised in the case of OLT.

[Pain in the R's]

I would not have thought Southend or many airports come to that would be laying down conditions that might send an airline to a competitor. At least there were not that many flights so maybe Stobart's fingers were only singed.

[Expressflight]

easyJet have today announced a daily (ex Saturday) SEN-EDI service, on sale immediately and commencing 2nd May. Departure SEN is 13:30. A useful addition to the SEN easyJet network.

[Barling Magna]

That's good. Edinburgh is a sensible destination with all its obvious attractions, plus any corporate business with RBS (which is situated at the end of the runway at SEN, after all...).

[tayair6]

Funny thing you say RBS at the end of Sen runway short trip to Edinburgh Head office . also it help extra route by send up Easyjet fourth Aircraft

[NorthSouth]

Hmmm, EDI-SEN. Last service on this route, Channel Airways 748s, c.1973? If memory serves they went via Newcastle, Tees-side and Norwich.
NS

[Expressflight]

The steelwork for the terminal extension is now nearly completed so it looks to be on schedule. Plans have recently been submitted to increase still further the size of the departure and arrivals halls plus baggage reclaim by some 800 sq m and these will be incorporated into the build.

The total floor area will then be nearly 11,000 sq m compared to the 3,640 sq m of the existing terminal. The arrivals area will then be nearly four times larger than that provided at present. There will be 12 check-in desks and six departure gates, while the retail 'offering' will also be increased. All in all this should provide a much better balanced facility to cater comfortably for its anticipated throughput. The ten parking stands fronting the terminal will all be served by covered walkways.

[tayair6]

Sound impression mmmmm

[Expressflight]

NorthSouth

That service was marketed as the 'Scottish Flyer' and operated by Viscounts fitted with heavy duty batteries to enable internal engine starts at each stop. There were so many stops (I cannot remember the exact routing but I think STN was first stop) that it didn't achieve commercial or operational success unfortunately.

[compton3bravo]

Looks like an Edinburgh-based aircraft - an early afternoon filler dare I suggest - timings not to hot either.

[Expressflight]

No, it's actually a SEN-based aircraft that will operate the EDI.

[compton3bravo]

Ooops sorry! Regarding the Scottish Flyer I think the route was Southend-Stansted-Luton-East Midlands-Leeds-Teesside-Newcastle-Edinburgh- Aberdeen but not completely sure.

[willy wombat]

The full route for the Scottish Flyer was Portsmouth-Southend-Luton-East Midlands-Leeds-Teesside-Newcastle-Edinburgh-Aberdeen. It was initially promoted to the press as a BAC111 op (except Portsmouth, obviously) but was flown by Viscounts or 748s. There was also a feeder service from Norwich to EMA. It ran from 20/1/69 until November the same year when it was stopped having lost a shed load of money.

[Expressflight]

I seem to remember the 1-11 may have launched the route and then the Visounts took over very quickly. I was pretty sure that STN was included in the route, but otherwise those shown by both willy wombat and compton3bravo look familiar.

[tayair6]

IT IS Edinburgh based ?ADS Advance | The Uk Magazine for aviation, defence, security and space industries (http://www.adsadvance.co.uk)

[ericlday]

Flight times indicate it is likely to be SEN based aircraft.
ADS Advance does not mention its EDI based.

[Expressflight]

The SEN departures board looks pretty healthy for mid-February this morning, with the inaugural VCE service and a Flybe charter to BGO among them.

[tws123]

Just out of interest does anyone know what the City Aviation Group is? I think that it is something to with the Join! project since Bernard Jacobs is directing it and it also says that it was set-up in October 2012.

[Expressflight]

City Aviation Group is indeed the vehicle by which it is hoped to launch the JOIN! project. There's perhaps a clue there as to the identity of the core operation as planned. The problem, as ever (especially nowadays), is to get the finance firmly in place and that continues to be what is holding things up at present.

[tws123]

I got the impression it was the organisation of route networks that was the problem and not the finance, but I suppose you would expect that from a start-up in poor economic conditions. There is nothing on the web about them probably because they want to keep things quiet until an official press release.

[Barling Magna]

Don't tell me that JOIN! are planning to operate from LCY rather than SEN? That would be disappointing......

[Expressflight]

Barling Magna

No it's nothing like that, don't worry.

[tws123]

From what I can make out the office is based in Sweden and I doubt they would consider LCY especially since all along they have wanted SEN. For a start-up airline SEN is ideal with very little competition and being cheap to operate from.

[FRatSTN]

For a start-up airline SEN is ideal with very little competition and being cheap to operate from.

Cheap to operate from yes, but also a smaller catchment area and growing competition from Stansted's new owners could be a worry for start-up airlines.

[tws123]

Stansted would probably reduce their rates or give deals to new airlines to entice them in, but despite this I still rekon they would be more expensive than SEN. As for our catchment area, there are no real issues here as although we've got sea and the river on two sides, you've got most of south Essex (pop. 600,000) and parts of East London.

[FRatSTN]

Stansted would not have to be as cheap as Southend in order for it to be affected. It's all about value, not the actual amount the airport charges.

Despite Gatwick being no cheaper than Stansted, many airlines have still moved because Gatwick is basically better value for money as it has more worldwide connections, more globally recognised, better rail access to London etc.

If MAG can add value to Stansted, which is exactly what they aim to do in essence, whether it be reducing costs, improving passenger experience, agreeing deals with more retail brands, offering attractive deals to airlines etc. then Stansted increases it's value, making it more attractive to airlines.

This is potentially dangerous for Southend in the sense that they will have an emerging competitior, adding value, ultimately growing in size which is already handling 20x as many passengers anyway which also overlaps into virtually the whole of Southend's catchment area. The people of East London and South Essex, not to mention the whole of East Anglia and the Midlands, are all included in Stansted's catchment area. Even for start-up carriers, the value is vital.

[Daza]

FRatSTN wrote
the whole of...... the Midlands

Maybe people in the East Midlands would travel to STN. I wouldn't be so sure about the rest of the Midlands. I live north of Birmingham and have only ever flown from STN once the journey there is a nightmare!!!!!
STN is not easy to get to from the West Midlands the A14 is awful. :(

Daza

[FRatSTN]

You live north of Birmingham and that even in my opinion is pushing Stansted's catchment area being on the the far side of the Midlands. The fact is, no matter how horrible you find it, something in the past had attracted you to travel all that way to Stansted when you have Birmingham, East Midlands, Manchester, Luton and Liverpool all closer to North Birmingham.

We have flown from Stansted on 6 return journeys since 2005. A large number of us in Leicestershire have and do use Stansted. I doubt if many of us even know that EasyJet has a base at Southend. In order to get a cheaper flight, Stansted is a more than realistic option for us, but Southend would never even come into most people's mind. Why? Because the catchment area is well out of our reach! It's the best part of an hour further away from anybody living west, northwest or north of Stansted, which is quite a large number of us!

[Phileas Fogg]

In a previous life I lived around Wellingborough and, EVERY TIME, BHX (less than an hour's drive away) got my business, I wasn't the least bit interested in LTN nor STN because I wasn't interested in LoCo's and from BHX I could fly with the likes of Lufthansa, KLM, Swiss, Air France, SAS to name but a few.

[Daza]

FRatSTN wrote
You live north of Birmingham and that even in my opinion is pushing Stansted's catchment area being on the the far side of the Midlands. The fact is, no matter how horrible you find it, something in the past had attracted you to travel all that way to Stansted when you have Birmingham, East Midlands, Manchester, Luton and Liverpool all closer to North Birmingham.

We have flown from Stansted on 6 return journeys since 2005. A large number of us in Leicestershire have and do use Stansted. I doubt if many of us even know that EasyJet has a base at Southend. In order to get a cheaper flight, Stansted is a more than realistic option for us, but Southend would never even come into most people's mind. Why? Because the catchment area is well out of our reach! It's the best part of an hour further away from anybody living west, northwest or north of Stansted, which is quite a large number of us!

I completely disagree with you that the WHOLE of the Midlands is in Stansted's catchment area. I live in Lichfield so maybe 10 miles due north of Birmingham. Would someone in Shrewsbury, Telford, Worcester or Hereford use STN as their first choice? :confused: They are all in the Midlands.

I did use STN once in 2010 with EZY and it was to a destination not offered from BHX, MAN or EMA. The flight was booked by friends. I also found the whole experience awful, from parking in long stay miles away from the terminal to long queues at check in. The bun fight of baggage reclaim (9 flights bags on one carousel) on return was horrendous. I guess you get what you pay for?

Anyway back to Southend! Hopefully the people of Southend, Essex and the East End of London will get more airline services and competition between airlines and airports will see prices will fall for consumers. :ok:

Daza

[FRatSTN]

Would someone in Shrewsbury, Telford, Worcester or Hereford use STN as their first choice? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif They are all in the Midlands.

Of course not, but to be in the catchment area of an airport doesn't mean it has to be the first choice. For example, East Midlands is my first choice, but since people from my area regularly use Birmingham, Luton and Stansted, we are still within the catchment area of those airports.

But ok I agree, the WHOLE of the Midlands maybe a bit OTT, but certainly the East Midlands, less so the West Midlands but people from places like Coventry, Birmingham etc. will certainly consider Stansted, but very unlikely to look at Southend.

The point I'm trying to make is that Southend has a catchment area which is much smaller than its rivals and that may be unattractive to start-up carriers and the extreme liklihood of Stansted adding value under new ownership may worsen things for Southend as competition will increase.

[Phileas Fogg]

Admittedly, from the Dartford Crossing and north-east London it's six of one and half a dozen of the other between SEN and STN, trunking down the A14 (if they still call it that) from the Midlands and/or the A11 from Narwich, then the M11, then people would be routing past STN to get to SEN.

Take the A12 from north East Anglia and/or from the A14/A45 then they'd never find STN. :)

[Copenhagen]

When I lived in Dunmow (5mins from STN) I once flew from EMA to the Canary Islands. Catchment works both ways.

[Pain in the R's]

You can just look at a UK map showing the motorway network to see what airports are easy to get to.

You can hate the place but there is no London airport easier to get to from the whole of the Midlands than Luton. Southend might as well be on the moon and Stansted is not that much better.

I do think that Southend could well struggle to attract new airlines with Stansted looking for new opportunities.

So how is Southend doing in attracting executive jet traffic away from other London Airports? I hear that it has made no impact what so ever but I am too far from Southend to know that for a fact.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Of course not, but to be in the catchment area of an airport doesn't mean it
has to be the first choice. For example, East Midlands is my first choice, but
since people from my area regularly use Birmingham, Luton and Stansted, we are
still within the catchment area of those airports.

I live 20 miles from MAN, and 31 miles from BLK...I always choose BLK, unless MAN has a route that BLK does not.

If I lived in the Midlands, I would not use Stansted..

[Expressflight]

With effective from 1st April the Aer Lingus Regional DUB route will be operated by a DUB based aircraft so the timings are altered substantially. STAs SEN will be 0850, 1445 & 1905 with STDs 0915, 1510 & 1930.

The only valid commercial reason that I can see for making this change is if the current traffic is biased towards inward to SEN. If so it will offer much better timings for a DUB-SEN-DUB day return. Conversely it will make a day return in the opposite direction less attractive.

[Pain in the R's]

No issues with public transport for the first departure of the day which must be a good thing as it must have put some passengers off.

Also makes it less likely that other routes will now be launched from Southend seeing that they will be closing their Southend base

[FRatSTN]

The morning flight on Saturday's and Sunday's will be 1 hour later, arriving at SEN at 09:50 and leaving at 10:15.

Also makes it less likely that other routes will now be launched from Southend seeing that they will be closing their Southend base

I suppose it also means that there is more of a risk of them cutting to 2 flights a day as they can easily drop one of them and replace it with another route from Dublin.

[Expressflight]

I would be very surprised if RE didn't look at additional routes from SEN next year, bearing in mind the common ownership. I don't think that not having an aircraft based at SEN this summer makes any difference one way or another to the prospect of that happening.

[SWBKCB]

Does anybody know how the deal with EI affects RE's ability to operate flights in their own right? i.e. I wouldn't have thought EI would be particularly interested in SEN-CAX, so would RE have to have an aircraft dedicated to this route without the EI branding etc, etc

Also, catchment areas - surely these are dependent on the type of service and destinations offered by the airport concerned, and will be different depending on what is available. e.g. I'm in the NCL catchment area for DXB but in the catchment area of EDI/MAN for NYC...

[Expressflight]

SWBKCB

I don't know the answer to your question but I would think that RE would need to operate a fair network of routes in their own name to make it worthwhile. Brand recognition might also be a problem. I thought the original EI/RE agreement gave RE the freedom to choose the routes, provided they didn't conflict with RE mainline's interests, so CAX-SEN under Aer Lingus Regional branding might be possible.

I agree with you regarding catchment areas. When I lived in south Norfolk I flew from NWI, STN, LHR, LGW and SOU (once), depending on flight availability & frequency, price, timings and airline etc.. I lived next to the A11 so was technically in the STN catchment I suppose but, yes, I drove past STN somestimes to fly from elsewhere.

As far as SEN is concerned I'm sure it attracts travellers from well outside its core 600,000 catchment -some Norwich friends of mine flew from there last October for example. The A140/A12/A130 to SEN from Norwich would be the natural route by the way, not the A11.

[Expressflight]

PitRs

To answer your question on whether or not SEN is attracting more business flights, the raw answer would appear to be 'yes' as the last quarter stats for 2012 show a 63% increase on the 2011 figures.

It's still at a pretty low level though and a major commercial push is planned this year apparently. New management at the Executive Terminal should be in place by next month.

[airhumberside]

If RE are paying EI for using the brand, booking facilities etc, I can't see why EI would refuse permission to use their brand where it doesn't conflict with their own interests. I doubt BE are particularly bothered about Barra-Benbecula, but Loganair are paying them to use the BE brand, so they let them

[LGS6753]

See the following story from 'Commercial Motor':

Commercialmotor.com - Is Stobart Group feeling the strain? (http://www.commercialmotor.com/latest-news/is-stobart-group-feeling-the-strain#.USMp6Gf083w)

The last paragraph is the relevant one. It seems the City feels that Stobarts have over-diversified, and has appointed a new Executive Chairman to "rationalize the portfolio".

[Expressflight]

I would suggest that they would be unlikely to try to sell SEN at this time. To do so would smack of it being a 'fire sale', so reducing the likely price achievable. I can foresee the day when they might sell it; once its terminal is up to 2 mppa capacity and the full value of the asset is realisable. If they could then get a very healthy premium on their total investment it might make some sense, but not now.

[Barling Magna]

This story has been around for a while. Other articles have suggested that other parts of the Stobart portfolio will be sold off, but there's no denying that SEN could be sold. It would be a great shame in my opinion to see Stobart leave SEN after all the investment they have put into it. It would also put SEN at the mercy of being bought up by a rival airport owner and run down, as was alleged happened in the 1990s when RAL (a subsidiary of BAA) took over. On balance though, assuming that EZY maintained its 10 year contract with the new owner and that the excellent Alastair Welch remains as manager, the impact could be relatively minor. But, I doubt that Stobart will sell SEN - not for a few years anyway.

[LGS6753]

I'm afraid the points made by Barling Magna and Expressflight, whilst perfectly valid, will have little traction with the new Madame Executive Chairman of Stobart.
Her main concerns will be the strategic direction of the group, the use of management time, and the allocation of capital. If she considers operating aviation infrastructure is too different from the core business (road haulage & logistics), she may decide to sell. Also, if the group can achieve a better return on capital in haulage, she may choose to realign the business there and sell.
Aviation is unlikely to become the core business for Stobart - the best SEN can hope for is that she decides to retain the aviation assets (Aer Arann, SEN and Carlisle Airport) and place them in a separate division.
My personal view is that the least attractive asset is a small regional airline, operating as a franchise, and with no effective identity of its own.
Aviation is a business that Stobart has entered almost by chance - having seen an opportunity or three and taken them. Carlisle Airport is really about building a distribution depot in their home town, and buying SEN was an almost-logical extension of that. Then taking a stake in RE from examinership to create 'business' for a newly-developed airport was logical but perhaps not sensible.

[vulcanised]

The directors of Stobart have worried me (as a shareholder) for some time.

They sometimes seem to treat the business as a personal toy train set and, coupled with the incestuous deals, don't seem to be focussed where they should be.

[davidjohnson6]

What was the original stated rationale for Stobart buying Southend airport ?

[LTNman]

In Storbat’s 2012 annual report Southend is making a loss but the airport is now valued at £115m.

Don't know whether that makes a sale more or less likely.

[tws123]

Stobart Air Division made a loss due to the £100million+ investment they spent on SEN, but I wouldn't have thought the airport itself is operating at a loss especially when you have just signed a 10 year deal with easyJet. I could be wrong...
Can anyone shed some light on this area?

[rowly6339]

SEN will not be sold they have spent too much time and money on it and would make a loss by selling now. I do think Carlisle should be sold as they got it cheap and the time and money its draining from the company and yet still nothing has happened i think it's a lost cause.

[LTNman]

Stobart Air Division made a loss due to the £100million+ investment they spent on SEN, but I wouldn't have thought the airport itself is operating at a loss

I thought it was a lot less than that but if it is £100m it will take quite a few passengers to pay that investment back seeing that there are day to day costs in running an airport.

I would have thought that if Southend did come on the market there would be a queue of buyers if it was priced right.

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Just for the record: It was British Airport's International who were the BAA 'stooge' company who did their best to run Southend into the ground and very nearly succeeded. Regional Airports took over from them and managed to keep the airport alive in the intervening years until Stobart purchased the lease from them.

[LTNman]

So Stobat leases the airport and does not own it?

[Barling Magna]

Thanks, Lord Gumboil. You're quite right. I'm going to have to stop trusting my own memory and check all facts from now on...... at least the idea was correct.

[vulcanised]

Southend Borough Council own SEN.

[Expressflight]

Stobart own the lease of SEN for a term of something like 175 years - I cannot recall the exact figure. Southend Borough Council own the freehold: a similar situation as at LTN I assume but with a very much longer lease at SEN.

It's pointless quoting the net asset value of SEN in the Stobart annual report: approximately that just reflects the amount they paid for it plus any additional capital expenditure on improvements. Such an asset would be sold for a multiple of its book value, that multiple depending on its profitability and the future potential that the buyer may think it has to increase those profits. I believe a very small loss was made in the last financial year, but it would be rather surprising if that were not the case when large numbers of employees would have been recruited and trained prior to the 'opening' of the 'new' SEN with very little revenue coming it during that period.

Regarding the BIA period of ownership I well recall their MD coming round to see us prior to the deal being finalised. He looked at our ops board and was surprised to see some eight night movements scheduled for that day. I told him that there were at least 30 night movements on average taking account of ourselves, BAF and others. He told me that Southend Council had suggested that night flights were not popular and he felt he had been misled on that score. I don't think BAI actually wanted to run SEN into the ground; it was more a case of SBC just wanting rid of it and if they could discourage night flights and those pesky noise complaints that would be a bonus for them come the next elections. I think the terms of the management contract that BAI had from SBC was rather too restrictive to enable them to realise its full potential. When Regional took over and bought the lease their intentions were good but they simply didn't have access to the finance which they found would be necessary to regenerate SEN's fortunes.

[LTNman]

Better a long term lease as Stobart can plan for the long term. With regard to the conditions of the lease what does Stobart pay the council? Would it be per passenger as per Luton or is it a fixed price each year?

[tayair6]

“New routes continue to be announced

[fatmed]

What new routes that then?

[tws123]

Comment taken from this article
Southend Airport will not be sold, owners vow (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/southend/10244401.Southend_Airport_will_not_be_sold__owners_vow/)

[fatmed]

I see. thanks anyone knows what's happening with the Join project. all gone quiet of late .

[Expressflight]

I'm afraid it's back to a situation of hoping rather than expecting as far as JOIN! is concerned.

[compton3bravo]

It is OK for Stobart to say that they will not sell Southend Airport (hope they don´t after all he effort they have put in) but if the banks - who hold the purse strings - say sorry it has to go - the board of Stobart will have no say in the matter.

[Barling Magna]

..... but our banks are scions of probity and honest sound advice. They support businesses to the hilt. They will have undertaken due diligence before advancing funds to Stobart. They will be fair, clear eyed and infallible in their decison making; that's why their executives deserve the bonuses they receive.

Why would the bankers pull the plug on one of the more successful parts of Stobart's growth startegy?

Oh. Yes. Ahhh....... right. OK.

[yeo valley]

stobart is totaly run by the banks. transport side as well.also tesco control a lot of the transport side as well.

[rowly6339]

Yeo

You clearly don't know alot about the company as they are not owned by the banks, the biggest shareholder being Invesco and other investment company's and also some of the board. As for Tesco they have 1% of the company they are however one of the company''s biggest customers so may have a bit of influence but not a great deal.

[Barling Magna]

Some encouraging news on progress here:

Work on London Southend Airport terminal extension on schedule for June opening* | Latest News | LSA - Community Relations & News | London Southend Airport (http://www.southendairport.com/news/work-on-london-southend-airport-terminal-extension-on-schedule-for-june-opening-/)

[tayair6]

Very encourage .......

[SWBKCB]

As for Tesco they have 1% of the company they are however one of the company''s biggest customers so may have a bit of influence but not a great deal.

Moving off topic, but this comment caused a wry smile - Tesco as one of their biggest customer only has a bit of influence??

Road Haulage/Logistics must be a very different industry to the one I deal with...:eek:

[EGNH19]

Been chatting to an old friend over the past few weeks that's been at SEN since it opened & it sounds like all's not well there with the staff.By the sounds of it,it's all down to one person. I went to see my friend during summer 12 and the the new SEN looks fantastic and has changed so much since I last flew into there many years ago. I just really hope the staffing issues get sorted out quickly and soon and why can one person control people and possibly ruin the careers of them and bring morale down so much in a place that's been buzzing recently and seems to be on the up in an industry that is full of doom & gloom recently.
Keep your chin up guys at SEN,all the very best for your future & hope your Achilles' heel gets their comeuppance soon.

[Phileas Fogg]

He must be a very old friend indeed if he has worked at Southend Airport since it opened ... in 1947!

[rowly6339]

Look who they work for! those not in the air division have put up with the same thing for years.

[Buster the Bear]

Volotea charters this summer, how frequently?

[Tagron]

Volotea 1/week PMI-SEN-PMI for Thomson/First Choice, Saturdays from May 18.

[tayair6]

begins 4 May 2013 ?

[Barling Magna]

Comparing prices from the Thomson website, for a holiday in July at the Hotel Santa Lucia in Majorca:

From SEN: £638 per person, from STN £751, from LGW £583, from LTN £747.

Quite a variation in prices.....