SOUTHEND - 4

[pamann]

But when there's a choice of Regular departures from the likes of Stansted and Gatwick, why would people local to Southend plan their week in Bulgaria around some one off date or two out of season. It was probably a lot cheaper to fly from one of the other London airports too. These 'irregular' charters work great from the regional airports that have little competition from being an hour plus from another major airport, but Southend really is competing with the other London 'Big Boys' IMHO and therefore people will still travel to another departure point to save a £ or two and travel on a date that suits them.

[Evanelpus]

I always thought Bulgaria would be an odd choice for a charter flight out of SEN anyway.

And Newquay isn't?

Expect this to go west before the end of the year.

[NickBarnes]

Bulgaria was very successful from Norwich last year so couldn't see why Southend wouldn't be really, again not that strange so suprised it was dropped.

[mikkie4]

Thomson are to continue using VOLOTEA 717 for next years palma mallorca flights instead of JETAIRFLY:D:D

[fatmed]

Yes, and back to Saturday only as well by the look of Thomson website?

[Nextprop]

The period of operation is 3 weeks less than this year too. It should be of concern to the airport management that capacity offered by Thomson for 2014 is now less than a third of what was originally advertised.

[wetlanding]

It does worry when you have airlines making statements and then seemingly just with drawing them. This has happened twice in the last mounth with Balkan withdrawing for "operational reasons", and Thomson for no apparent reason cutting back to once a week from the proposed three times a week and two destinations. The airport got off to a great start, but now seems to be floundering somewhat in its endeavour to get more services and airlines to use the improved facilities which will be ready early 2014, I do hope however that this is not the case and look forward to more good news in the near future.

[Expressflight]

wetlanding

I think just a little patience may well be rewarded.

[LTNman]

Seems that Southend missed out on Flybe

[tws123]

It does not surprise me that they decided to focus on Luton where they already operate from, but yes it is a shame that SEN failed to attract them back.

[tophat27dt]

with 500 redundancies announced today, maybe it's best they didn't come to SEN :rolleyes:

[Barling Magna]

If they had come to SEN back in 2011 they might well have gained useful yields which might have helped them avoid their current plight. It beats me why they bought those E195s and disposed of Dash-8s which seemed more economical and just as effective on short range routes. But hey, what do I know? Terrible news for those losing their jobs, and a real shame to boot.

[vulcanised]

Seemed to me they never really tries with Southend.

The weekend only Jersey service just seemed half-hearted.

[SWBKCB]

Wasn't the Jersey basically a charter for a tour op. (Jersey Travel?) with the spare seats sold off (and similar to many other such flights op by BE from airports without a JER schedule). If so, nothing particularly half-hearted.

[tophat27dt]

Yes, they were charter flights...flyBe have never operated scheduled flights in their own right from SEN...and probably never will.

[NickBarnes]

Of course Flybe may have looked at flying from Southend but found that it may have not been viable for them to operate from it, and as said with the restructuring now I don't think they ever will. the time has been and gone if they were going to operate services from Southend

[Red Four]

Flybe had good opportunity to reap value from Southend in 2005/6 onwards, but the subsequent ordering of the E-195 and then the process of digesting the take-over of BACON seemed to derail this.

To quote part of a Flybe press release from the time (2 December 2004, on announcing the 'scheduling' of the weekly Jersey flight):

"Mike Rutter, Sales and Marketing Director, flybe., commented: ‘There is considerable potential for expansion here at Southend, as we have done at other domestic airports. In the future, we will be looking to offer similar services to those that we have recently launched at Norwich and Leeds.”

Still, Flybe's loss of interest gave EZY a clean sweep at the airport when the time came with the extended runway, and the rest as they say is history.

[mikkie4]

From what i can gather JIM FRENCH didnt like SEN,and SEN didnt like JIM FRENCH!!!!!

[EI-BUD]

If SEN was showing positive results on the sole JER route BE would have been interested. Simples. All the indicators to date would show that SEN doing well on sun routes, and a few city destinations added in. Loads have been superb on the sun routes and the domestics a flop. BFS being pulled and EDI not breaking any delph. I'd say the timing for flybe given their fare structure is not right. If I were in their shoes I wouldn't have touched it. That said , I think the airport is great, quick and convenient though I'd say hasn't captured much in the way of business travellers apart maybe from AMS route...

[tayair6]

I am wondering if cross rail is done .will it be any good for direct line from West side and Heathrow change over to direct Southend Airport.... Stobart aim for ....?

[tws123]

If I remember correctly there were calls to extend the Crossrail project to Southend Victoria. They certainly could do it, but I doubt they will, not until Southend Airport is operating at 5 million ppa or so.

[SARF]

Extending it to southend airport will merely mean running the trains on the current line. The fast trains from Liverpool st stop st all stations from billericay onwards. There won't be any time savings. Unless the smash two new tracks in all the way fromshenfield. Not much room for that

[10002level]

Flybe was not and is not in a position to gamble on SEN. They have enough financial problems and need to consolidate rather than expand. SEN does not fit in with that strategy. EZY on the other hand are in a financial position that allows them to take a punt on SEN and if it does not work they will be able to redeploy the aircraft elsewhere.

[mikkie4]

it seems that EZY are working well at SEN, FLYBEs lose

[pabely]

As long as the costs are very low, when does the deal run out? :}

[Barling Magna]

The deal runs until 2022, but there may well be break clauses on either side of the agreement. So far load factors look most encouraging on the leisure routes and Amsterdam, with Edinburgh growing well. Belfast and Newquay have struggled except at the height of the summer.

So far, so good.

[cjags]

So far, 114 booked on the inaugural easyJet flight to TFS starting next month. Will be interesting to watch how this route performs, I hope it's a successful winter sun route for the region.

[tayair6]

also they are flying with A320 ..... that will be interesting despite was told it can't be use at SEN ..... seem have permission from CAA ? as i was told different story which one is accurate....

[SENChris]

I believe they are slightly restricted in the number of seats they can sell. Also it will be winter only but they seem to believe that it's still worth while plus should hopefully be a proving ground for other routes of similar length.

[Wycombe]

also they are flying with A320 ..... that will be interesting despite was told it can't be use at SEN

SEN has a similar runway Category to SOU, which has seen 320 (and 757) charter ops (to TFS in some cases, although not direct) if you go back a few years.

[Expressflight]

tayair 6

I cannot think why anyone told you that the A320 "can't be use(sic) at SEN" nor why specific CAA permission would be required.

Like any other narrowbody, provided it's perfomance is sufficient to carry the required payload to destination off SEN's runway and the RFF cover is sufficient etc., where would the problem lie?

I feel though that SEN certainly needs an additional operator or two to ease the current reliance on easyJet; perhaps news on this might be forthcoming before too long, although it's a very competitive market out there.

[Expressflight]

Sorry, I cannot work out what you are saying.

[davidjohnson6]

Express - I think he means that he spoke to someone at Southend airport who said airport management are trying to find new airlines to fly to SEN, but they didn't know anything more.

Then again, an airport which does not say it is trying to find new airlines would be very unusual.

[tophat27dt]

Can I have a glass of what Tayair is drinking? LOL.

[SARF]

Just seen a couple of B.A. 737's take off from Southend. Assume they are off to city after a fog diversion ?

[Expressflight]

They would have been BA EMB-190s I imagine as a number diverted from LCY this morning. Around a dozen diversions all told I think.

There is a BA 737-400 on maintenance with ATC Lasham I believe but I think that is still there.

[Evanelpus]

Didn't think City was certified for 737's?

I tend to agree with a previous poster, EMB's surely!

[SARF]

I did say it was foggy ;)

[8674planes]

There were around 12 diversions from LCY today I saw 2 Cityjet F50's, Cityjet RJ85 and 2 BA Embraers. I managed to see one of the BA Emb 190's depart taking off just before the Bravo Taxiway.

[tws123]

There was also the SkyWorks Dornier 328 from Berne.

[8674planes]

One Easyjet's A320's arrived this afternoon for the start of tomorrow's Tenerife service. Reg is G-EZTR.

[mikkie4]

Lets hope its the first of many:):):)

[wetlanding]

I have just read on another forum that Thomsons Holidays have sent out letters to some people that there flights will no longer be from London Southend could this be true and I wonder why.

[Barling Magna]

The flights to Palma from Southend still seem to be bookable on the Thomson website, from 24th May through to October.

[A4]

Are they buying seats on easyJet? Think Thomas Cook block purchased seats on eJ this summer.

A4

[mikkie4]

Nov pax=66,084(+30.7%)Running total 945,680(+67.7%).might not make our first million pax by the next set of figures,still pretty dam good

[EK77WNCL]

Everyone book out of SEN in December, break a million!

[LTNman]

Seems that the EDI and Newquey services are next for the chop. Can anyone confirm this? This just leaves Jersey as the airports only domestic route if you call Jersey a domestic route.

[fatmed]

would these thinner domestic routes be served better by a smaller regional aircraft operation similar to but not not necessarily aer Arran ?

[SWBKCB]

With Flybe in retreat, who is there left to operate such routes? Given the Stobart connection, Aer Arran would seem to be the obvious choice - how does the deal with Aer Lingus affect their ability to operate independently of EI?

[SENChris]

There has been talk of Aer Arann operating domestic / near continent routes out of Southend (this even appeared in the Stobart annual report), however there hasn't been any further news or rumours on this for a while now. With the ATR 42s now up for lease this would seem to be unlikely.

I suppose it is possible that they could use an ATR 72 but I have no idea as to their fleet utilisation and whether they have spare capacity.

[cornishsimon]

When was it announced that EDI and NQY were being dropped ?

Thought they had just increased NQY with an extra weekly flight ?


cs

[vulcanised]

Probably just LTNman trolling again.

[Ringwayman]

as selecting Newquay on the U2 website as the origin airport when booking flights only gives the option of flying to Liverpool, perhaps some people need to cut some slack?

[LTNman]

Seems that the EDI and Newquey services are next for the chop. Can anyone confirm this?

I was asking for someone to confirm this if you would like to read my post again. The report came from the easyjet thread by an Essex warrior who often posts on this thread

[OltonPete]

I assume the easyjet summer timetable like Ryanair is far from finalised as there does seem some odd frequencies. Amsterdam come September is just daily on a Tuesday and Wednesday yet three daily on an May Wednesday.

Edinburgh seems to end on 14 June but there is a message saying bookable to 14 September.

I think the most shocking cut-backs are next month, which is a Europe-wide happening not just Southend but Tuesday seems to see just three flights - is that with three/four based aircraft? In mid January on a Tuesday all I can find is one Amsterdam, Faro and Tenerife. Thursday is similar with EDI operating rather than TFS.

The Monday and Friday schedule looks fine and I know easyjet have done the same at other UK airports on the quieter days of the week in January but as a smaller base it looks worse.

Pete

[FRatSTN]

Appears there's no SEN - KRK either from 14 September 2014, all other routes except those in question are now on sale until 25th October.


From 15th September that leaves only: Alicante, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin, Faro, Geneva, Ibiza, Jersey, Malaga, Palma and Venice.


Appears also only 3 aircraft again at this time (might explain AMS reduction) but I'm sure could quite easily go back up to 4 by Summer 2015.

[sxflyer]

AMS is back down to 2x daily as well.

It's possible these routes have been dropped. On the other hand the performance of this year's NQY would have been known before reinstating the route for next year, likewise AMS before announcing the increase. Certainly load-wise, KRK has been doing well. So something else might be going on.

In my mind, the situation is either:

1. An aircraft really is being removed, possibly temporarily to support growth at LGW or long term at STN

2. EDI and the middle AMS have been dropped for a new leisure route(s) of circa 2.5 hrs duration each way (Menorca? Naples? Malta?)

3. A 5th aircraft is on the way and the schedules are being re-jigged.

It may not be bad news.

[Barling Magna]

According to a reply to someone on the EZY FB page asking if the EDI route would stop in June:

easyJet wrote: "Hi Neil, according to the information we have this route will still be available all year long. Hope this helps, Clarissa."

Now I know that the EZY guys replying to FB requests don't have the full picture by any means, but I would have thought that she would have said that she did not know the answer rather than what she did.

Certainly the load factors (not yield, I know....) in December have been high on the SEN-EDI flights.

In reply to another chap asking if any new routes were to be offered from SEN during 2014 EZY replied:

"Hello John, Yes, we do. Please keep an eye on our profile as we'll keep you informed as soon as we have an update."

So, make of those replies what you will.....

[tws123]

I think people have jumped the gun a bit and assumed because certain routes are not yet bookable online that they are being dropped. They could still be working on schedules etc. June is still a long way off and with the terminal extension opening soon, perhaps some news can be expected then regarding EZY (or others) ?

[EK77WNCL]

Not to go off topic or anythig but could EZY get an A320 off SEN's runway non stop to SSH? I know an A319 would (for the most part) be fine but I think the A320 could struggle.

Despite what TOM say, a 738 would be allright down to AGP/FAO/CFU/PMI etc, a 757 could definitely do it... In fact they could open up SSH with a 757. Pure speculation but I think it would be nice to see.

[fatmed]

Hi. I sent a twitter question asking about NQY from SEN and they replied the route is no longer available. Can we assume the same for EDI ?

[tws123]

Sadly the airport has confirmed that EDI will cease from 14th June 2014 and NQY will not return for S14 either.

[wetlanding]

Just spoken with Easyjet re Krakow and they state no they are not droping this route as they have not finished the schedules yet.

[LTNman]

While SEN has no doubt had a very successful year it has also had its failures with closed routes or pending closed routes.

I can think of the following routes that did not last or will not last 12 months:

Waterford
Galway
Belfast
Newquay
Edinburgh

There will be a few others in the next 12 months including I predict Dublin and Jersey.

Southend has a bright future but not with routes to the UK and Ireland.

[LTNman]

Fact or fiction? I can't think why 2 aircraft would be on the runway here at the same time.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5686/ovx4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/ovx4.jpg/)

[SWBKCB]

They're not on the runway at the same time - it's a composite photograph rather than a single one.

[LTNman]

Well I also did think of that but you can sometimes see the joins of the photos and here I can't. Also in the general shot of the airport (if you look at Google maps) the sun seems to be at the same angle looking at the shadows. No doubt you are correct but it is a strange photo.

[Barling Magna]

Southend has a bright future but not with routes to the UK and Ireland. I largely agree with you, LTNman, but the Edinburgh flight was getting good loads since the frequency changed, and the Dublin flights seem to be performing well, possibly because of the opportunities for onward flights to the USA. Apart from those two destinations I think SEN's future lies with the Med and eastern and central Europe.

[yeo valley]

I thought the 2 planes on the runway at the same time was testings to see if it could work ok. I thought it was being done to see if it could work at lhr instead of building another runway.
with a quieter runway it would be done here b4 it was tried at lhr.
happy new year to all on this thread.

[FRatSTN]

Article here about EasyJet dropping Edinburgh and Newquay routes. Neither the airline or airport will reveal why the routes have been closed.

easyJet drops flights to Newquay and Edinburgh from Southend (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/10907639.easyJet_drops_flights_to_Newquay_and_Edinburgh_from _Southend/)

[johnnychips]

Well, I expect that either they are not making money, or easyjet consider they can make more money by deploying the planes elsewhere.

[tophat27dt]

In December, SEN received many LCY diversions. My question is "Are these passengers included in the CAA monthly stats now, because last year I have noticed none listed".

[tws123]

I believe that although not officially mentioned in the provisional statistics, in November there were still a 522 pax unaccounted for, and most likely these would come from any diversions, business flights etc. So I would assume that yes they are now included.

[tayair6]

A total of 970,167 passengers passed through the Essex airport between January and December 2013 - beating the previous record of 721,661 (set year to the end of February 2013). This sustained growth eclipses previous yearly averages of around 692,000 passengers back in the 1960s heyday of Southend, when it was the third busiest airport in the UK (second only to Heathrow and Manchester).

[tayair6]

David Lister added: “We are also working closely with all our current partners – as well as speaking to potential new ones – in order to offer an even wider variety of destinations for business and leisure travellers, at a reasonable cost all year round. We hope 2014 is going to be another great year for London Southend Airport.”

[Barling Magna]

SEN has belatedly joined the Route Shop:
London Southend Airport (SEN) | Unserved Routes in the Route Shop (http://www.therouteshop.com/profiles/london-southend-airport/)

Some interesting destinations in their wish list. I'd have thought Copenhagen would be a winner. Perhaps Oslo and Stockholm could be added. Not sure about Glasgow though....

At least they are trying to actively market themselves now.

[Donkey497]

I think that the big problem behind the dropping of the EDI route is likely the timing, especially during the week. I used the flight last week on Thursday & Friday. Arriving down to SEN at 22:30+ is not an attractive option for most people. Getting up to EDI at 20:30 is just about OK, but is still on the late side.


A service like this needs to be timed to let the users get to where they are staying, usually within about an hour's travel from the airport, and still be in time to have dinner at a restaurant, otherwise it will be self limiting.


Earlier last year, the timing was good with a mid afternoon slot which gave you the option to work in the morning, travel, have a relaxing or productive evening and then have a full day the next day.


However, the current timing is just self defeating. The flight down on the Thursday was at best 1/3 full. The Friday return flight was probably about 90% full, mist of whom seemed to be heading out on a night out in Edinburgh (hen, stag etc...). I can't see the return flight on the Friday having been particularly full.....

[Buster the Bear]

Operations and Fleet « JOIN Regional Airlines (http://www.joinairlines.com/operations-and-fleet#!lightbox)[small_gallery]/0/

[LTNman]

Based upon our experience the required investment for Join! will be 30 million Euro.

‘Seed capital’ of 200,000 Euro and a ‘Bridgecapital’ of appr. 2,300,000 Euro is needed for the preparation (pre-launch) of the start-up.

Maybe Southend fans here can have a whip round to get the airline up and running.

JOIN will initially operate aircraft in the following capacity range:

50 seats turboprop aircraft: ATR42
76 seats turboprop aircraft: ATR72
108 seats jet aircraft: Fokker F100


Operating more than one type of aircraft pushes up operating costs. The aircraft listed can't be viewed as aircraft for a low cost operation so will this be a full fares airline if it gets off the ground.

I can't see it happening somehow if it is having to get out the begging bowl in the hope of finance but Southend would be a good airport for it to operate from if the airport can sort out the trains.

[Buster the Bear]

Join! have been approached by Dundee airport to re-open the London link.

[virginblue]

Hasn't JOIN! (or rather: its website) been around for something like 3 years with nothing happening at all?


By the way, I am just spending my 8th hour of the day in the LCY departure lounge as LCY was closed down by fog almost completely until noon. It seems a few inbound planes diverted - one or two Cityjets, the Sun Air Billund flight and possibly also two Alitalia E190s (as they touched down almost immediately after airport re-opened). Did any of those end up in SEN? (LG went to STN and the BA A318s to LGW, but no other diversion airports were given).

[tws123]

I would not look at their website as it is out of date and bears no resemblance to their actually (updated) plans.

[cornishsimon]

So what are the updated plans ?


cs

[vulcanised]

Did any of those end up in SEN?


Visibility at Southend was not very good, so probably not.

[LTNman]

And perhaps Luton fans can have a whip round to cut down on the laughable time taken to get from the Luton hangar to Luton Parkway station before you EVEN start your rail journey to London? And even then you have to be VERY lucky to catch one of the hourly fast trains.

:zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz:

This is the Southend thread if you didn't know. Why are you mentioning LTN here?

[tws123]

I don't know much about the whole Join! operation but for a kick-off, some of the destinations are different.

[LTNman]

MORE than 1,200 households are claiming compensation from Southend Airport, which could result in a multi-million pound bill.

1,200 households seeking compensation from Southend Airport (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/10946648.1_200_households_seeking_compensation_from_Southend _Airport/?ref=ms)

[mikkie4]

1,200 NIMBYS

[davidjohnson6]

The Land Compensation Act dates from 1973. Any developer wishing to enlarge an airport should be well aware of it, and should have factored it into their consideration when deciding whether or not to start the building works.

It is possible that the 1,200 households are having a go to see if they can get anything - but if you had bought a house near to a very very sleepy SEN in 2005, you would have had to be very imaginative indeed to foresee it undergoing major redevelopment and be handling almost 1 million passengers annually by 2013.

[tophat27dt]

Seeking compensation and actually winning it are two different things, of course!

[LTNman]

Part of the planning permission from the council was that the airport would sound insulate properties that were badly affected by noise.

Airport - London Southend Airport - Southend-on-Sea Borough Council (http://www.southend.gov.uk/info/200078/public_transport/531/london_southend_airport/1)

Also there is this about general compensation

Part 1 Compensation | Community Relations & News | London Southend Airport (http://www.southendairport.com/news/part-1-compensation/)

House owners deserve compensation when they are being terrified:p

Low flying Boeing 737 taking off full of fuel for Jeddah terrifies household in Southend


A FAMILY were left terrified after a plane loaded with enough aviation fuel to fly to the
Middle East took off from Southend Airport and narrowly missed roof tops.

The white Boeing 737 jet took off for Jeddah at 3.20pm last Thursday, and passed very close to two homes in Prince Avenue, Westcliff.

A 51-year-old resident, who asked not to be identified, was in his garden when the jet roared above him at 250ft – instead of the usual 450ft.

The resident, whose elderly parents live with him, said: “I live directly on the flight path so I am used to planes going over, but this was extremely low. “I have never experienced anything like it.

“It wasn’t an easyJet plane. It was flying about half what they normally do. I thought it was going to take my aerial off at least! “I have lived here all my life and have never seen any plane fly so low.”

The resident’s 82-year-old father and 75-year-old mother were left in a state of shock.
His mum said: “It really frightened me so much. “I have angina and had to take my medication. I thought the roof was coming off it was so low. I’ve never heard anything like it. It was like a bomb coming down. It was really like during the war.

“I couldn’t stop shaking and every time I hear a plane now I think it’s going to happen again.” The plane had been at the airport for maintenance and was not carrying passengers.

Edit I have just looked at the satellite image of the runway and Prince Ave. The housing is so close that the airport could not install a full set of approach lighting so only have 3 bars of lighting and not the standard 5.

[Tagron]

User CP>Settings and Options>Edit Ignore List>Enter name in box and click Okay

[SARF]

Prince avenue, or as its other wise known, the A127 or to old farts the Arterial'
Is probably the busiest road in Essex after the A12, maybe the A13 sneaks in..
If you live on it I'd be surprised if you heard a plane crashing in your garden

[LTNman]

What has happened to Expressflight? No posts since December 10th, hope he is alright.

[tws123]

He was on holiday for a bit, but yes we all hope he is well.

[Expressflight]

Yes, I took a six week winter break in the Algarve to enjoy the sunshine and be well away from aviation; well that was the intention but it didn't quite work out like that during the last two weeks. I arrived back at SEN yesterday to a very good passenger experience as usual, but the ongoing terminal completion work makes it look a bit of a building site.

There will be some SEN news very soon I think regarding new routes, one way or the other, and I see that JOTA are adding an RJ85(?) to their SEN-based fleet for ACMI and up-market charter work.

As far as JOIN! is concerned I think they are still trying to finalise investment so I doubt anything is likely to be announced for some time and their chances of successfully launching still are not assured in my view. I wish them luck though as their persistence deserves some reward.

I note that the SEN-based A320 operating the TFS route served a number of other EZY routes from SEN around Christmas; presumably taking advantage of its greater capacity. There were six EZY aircraft on the terminal ramp yesterday lunchtime which looked impressive even if a number were idle.

It will be interesting to se what 2014 has in store for SEN.

[Phileas Fogg]

Prince avenue, or as its other wise known, the A127 or to old farts the Arterial'
Is probably the busiest road in Essex after the A12, maybe the A13 sneaks in..
If you live on it I'd be surprised if you heard a plane crashing in your garden

You're funny :)

A 51-year-old resident, who asked not to be identified, was in his garden when the jet roared above him at 250ft – instead of the usual 450ft.

What did the 51-year-old resident, who asked not to be identified, measure the height of the aircraft with?

[EssexMan61]

It certainly will be nice to see the extension work finally finished. It would be good to see the tantalising "early-2014" completion refined to a more definite estimate - but I suppose it is best to err on the side of caution.


Apart from the "work-in-progress" appearance my recent trip to Amsterdam from SEN was typically good. Flights pleasingly full on both legs.

[Phileas Fogg]

my recent trip to Amsterdam from SEN was typically good. Flights pleasingly full on both legs

"Full" = "100%"

I very much doubt that both your chosen flights were full to the point where there wasn't a spare seat between them, indeed I'll go as far as to call you a liar ... Care to prove me wrong?

[Expressflight]

Calling him a liar is surely a little harsh Phileas, but perhaps my holiday has mellowed me somewhat.

I would take "pleasingly full" to possibly mean nearly full or encouragingly full; not necessarily 100%. My inbound FAO yesterday was also encouragingly well populated but not 100% full. Anyway, we all know that fullness doesn't necessary equate to the flight being highly profitable.

[Captain_Caveman]

The EZY A320 has been used on non TFS flights to bring those flights on time and avoid potential delays due to the original A319 being delayed. The only flights being sold at A320 capacity are those to from TFS

[CabinCrewe]

why on earth can it not be 100% full. It is reasonably common and could equally apply in this case. If someone takes issue with it, then I suggest its up to them to confirm whether or not that is fact or not.

[Phileas Fogg]

why on earth can it not be 100% full

How many flights each day are there between south-east England and Schiphol and what are the chances that both flights that one chooses to travel on are both fully booked and without a single no-show? :)

Expressflight,

Nothing personal, and whilst I personally wish SEN Airport every deserved success, but this thread has become somewhat reminiscent of the CWL thread whereas the posters that know what they are talking about are the minority whilst the aviation enthusiasts (Reggie Spotter's) appear to be the majority!

[dc9-32]

I see that JOTA are adding an RJ85(?) to their SEN-based fleet for ACMI and up-market charter work.



I believe it will be a 146-200

[EssexMan61]

Just to clarify after the somewhat dramatic response by Phileas Fogg -


Both my flights had a pleasingly high number of passengers and were indeed pretty full (though not 100%). I would of thought that what I was implying was clear.


One could almost suggest that PPRuNe has the occasional pedant posting on it!

[Barling Magna]

the posters that know what they are talking about are the minority whilst the aviation enthusiasts (Reggie Spotter's) appear to be the majority!

Nothing wrong with being an aviation enthusiast. I was one myself once.

[Skipness One Echo]

One could almost suggest that PPRuNe has the occasional pedant posting on it! A pedant would weep at a 52 year old using "would of". :)
I would of thought that what I was implying was clear.
* weeps

Having a house so very close to the end of a runway isn't clever. It's only going to get worse as time goes by, but they chose to live in a house, at the end of a runway. First world problem!

[SWBKCB]

...but they chose to love in a house...

Good old S1E - ever the romantic! :O

[davidjohnson6]

Barling - you wrote that you were an aviation enthusiast once. Should we infer that your working in aviation has destroyed that enthusiasm ? If the personal interest and curiosity has gone, why are you posting on this site ?

[LTNman]

Having a house so very close to the end of a runway isn't clever. It's only going to get worse as time goes by, but they chose to live in a house, at the end of a runway. First world problem!

Yes but I bet they didn't expect the runway to get even closer to their home due to it being extended. The closeness of those homes has limited the approach lights to only 3 bars.
Expressflight. Glad to read your posts again as I was wondering whether you had expired!

[tophat27dt]

As moderator for this thread (I only got it going again after the previous thread was closed down by PPrune administration for "personal bickering", etc), I ask you to keep your comments and views focused on the airport and the operations news from there, and not continue anymore with the personal bickering that is building up again. There are three main "culprits" who love to poke the stick in the ribs (I will not name them) and this must stop or I will close down the thread. Thank you.

[tws123]

It has been reported that Flybe are to continue a summer seasonal route to SEN from Newquay from May this year 3x weekly. This would perhaps explain why EasyJet dropped it. It is yet to be confirmed officially though. Article: BTNews: The Business Travel News (http://www.btnews.co.uk/article/7253)

[Expressflight]

It has been confirmed by a Flybe spokesman so indeed seems to be true. Good to see a 3 x weekly service operating from May to September rather than the EZY short season offering last year. The A319 really was too large for such a route.

[tws123]

Is this the route announcement you were expecting? In the long term this could be good news for SEN in terms of potential growth, but of course MAG will be interested now they've got the Dundee route with Loganair at STN - although we don't expect much growth from Flybe until they've balanced the books.

[Expressflight]

tws123

No, this was a total surprise.

[tws123]

This is great news - so this is a little added bonus. Still want to see the airport mention it first.

[sxflyer]

Extremely interesting news, if someone had said Flybe were to operate an additional departure point from London I would have put SEN behind LTN and STN in that order.

Also interesting that unless they are shifting or dropping rotations from NQY to BHX/MAN, they need to find an aircraft from somewhere to operate this route as a w, either from NQY or even via a further unannounced route to SEN

I also wonder if this route is purely a standalone summer only tourist route, or a testbed for the future London terminus of the LGW operation once the PSO kicks in. I also wonder if this could be a pre-cursor to more substantial activity at SEN, perhaps BHD/EDI

The other point of interest is that Flybe (and franchise partner) will serve 4 London airports, but with just a single route at each

[Expressflight]

I too wonder if there might be more to this than just the opportunistic picking up of a discarded EZY route. It will certainly be interesting to see the scheduling once the route goes on sale.

It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that they may look at SEN-EDI once EZY drop the route in June.

[tws123]

maybe even Belfast-City or Waterford perhaps?


Also BBC article just appeared: BBC News - Flybe picks up flights between Newquay and Southend (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-25916438)


and flights begin 17th May until 27th September as this article with Flybe marketing writes.
Flybe resurrects Southend flights after easyJet 'left passengers in the lurch' | The Cornishman (http://www.cornishman.co.uk/Flybe-resurrects-Southend-flights-easyJet-left/story-20506509-detail/story.html)


As these flights start the same date as the Birmingham flights from NQY does this imply a NQY based aircraft and therefore no extra routes from SEN?

[tophat27dt]

Maybe, as Easyjet drop certain routes, airlines like Flybe with smaller aircraft will jump in. The only problem is what price will the air tickets be? Good luck to Flybe.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Any indications of the type of aircraft to be used? EMBs or Q400s?

[tayair6]

using the Q400

[tayair6]

Newquay – London Southend
Effective 16th May – 27th September 2014 on Tues/Thurs/Sat
Dep Newquay 1105 Arr Southend 1225
Dep Southend 1250 Arr Newquay 1410

[tws123]

The terminal extension is due to open at the end of February - £11.2 terminal extension set to open at Southend Airport by end of February | The Enquirer Newspaper (http://www.theenquirer.co.uk/11-2-terminal-extension-set-to-open-at-southend-airport-by-end-of-february/)

[fatmed]

For those interested. Heart Essex radio website have a fair few pics of the new terminal today.

[vulcanised]

BBC wakes up.........

BBC News - London Southend Airport opens new £10m extension (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-26171915)

[tayair6]

Southend is Europe's fastest growing airport


London Southend Airport saw a 57.1% increase in its passenger numbers from 2012 to 2013, signifying the largest growth of any European airport.

[tophat27dt]

But whilst it's a great increase, any stock on the stockmarket, for example, is never able to continue with such a growth.....unless SEN attracts more flights this year, surelyit could end up a minus figure for 2014? (based on no expansion by EZY).

[mart901]

Surely though while expansion in terms of routes always helps, growing load factor is the easiest way and as all these routes are still new they should show growth, DUB for one continues to grow and EIR has indicated it wants 4x daily in the future.

[EI-A330-300]

Surely though while expansion in terms of routes always helps, growing load factor is the easiest way and as all these routes are still new they should show growth, DUB for one continues to grow and EIR has indicated it wants 4x daily in the future.

It's only 16 weekly this coming summer, a long way off 4 daily.

[LTNman]

Southend is Europe's fastest growing airport

London Southend Airport saw a 57.1% increase in its passenger numbers from 2012 to 2013, signifying the largest growth of any European airport.

Lazy reporting with facts that have no meaning. Manston (2788%) and Cambridge (3765%) far outshine Southend (32%) in terms of percentage growth.

[Expressflight]

Yes, it's all pretty meaningless in reality.


It's the growth this year and next that will tell the true story and they need to have a few additional routes and, ideally, an additional operator for this summer and beyond if 2014 totals are to exceed those of 2013 by any appreciable margin.


The January 2014 provisional figures were quite respectable with year on year growth of 21% on each of DUB, ALC and AMS, although AGP and FAO were somewhat down.

[EssexMan61]

The Easyjet website shows that the Tenerife route is returning from mid-September after the Summer break - twice weekly - (Tue / Sat rather than Tue / Fri as now).


Good news!!

[tophat27dt]

The Canary Islands are excellent all-the-year round holiday destinations, and it would be no surprise of EZY add one of the other islands to SEN too.
In the meantime, i am itching to know how good Stobart's man is for attracting new airlines and routes to SEN. It can't be easy and I know we all think we are experts but has he pushed hard to get Darwin/Etihad Regional, KLM, Wizzair, etc to consider SEN. I still believe there is a demand for flights to a European hub for onwards flights worldwide.

[tws123]

KLM won't come to SEN with EZY on the AMS route already at 2/3 daily. With Krakow being dropped it doesn't really show Wizzair that eastern European routes work from SEN (although Wizzair don't fly to Krakow currently). However I could see Etihad Regional moving from CBG to SEN if they were committed to serving the East of England/London market as I can't see them lasting long there with current pay loads. There is only so long they can keep ploughing money into it.

[davidjohnson6]

Southend cannot support either Edinburgh, Belfast - says to me that business demand is weak and/or that business in west Essex prefers London City. Can't remember exactly, but I imagine that Cityjet will continue to codeshare with KLM on the Amsterdam route at a far higher frequency than Southend could ever sustain.

The routes that remain at Southend are heavily leisure and beach focussed. This is not a good signal to send to Darwin or a network carrier. When I see an airline operate a route on sale to the public to somewhere in Germany, I'll change my mind...

[tws123]

I wouldn't say that UK domestics couldn't be viable from SEN. In 2012 over 90,000 travelled to/from BFS from SEN which is more than Aer Arann get on the Dublin route in a year. It just needs smaller aircraft with more frequencies, and not the larger A319s of EZY which they cannot fill.

[virginblue]

From what I gather also in Germany, FMO is more or less a given. Apparently something like 5 or 6 weekly flights. I would assume that these flights will be noon-time flights, allowing the aircraft to serve a destination double-daily in the mornings and evenings and another destination daily in-between. So how about something up in Scotland and a French destination on top of FMO?

[Ironsjack]

I couldn't find anything about a link between FMO and SEN, is there a link for this?

[tws123]

Jobs are being advertised for a new Aer Arann base at Southend. They are also funding training for the ATR72-600 type which suggests that the last one to be delivered will be going to SEN (EI-FCY). Contracts begin at the end of March, beginning of April. Good news that effectively confirms what we suspected!


Link: ***NEW BASE*** London Southend ATR Captains with Sigma Aviation Services | 1401384315 (http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401384315/-new-base-london-southend-atr-captains/?TrackID=4023#sc=socialmedia&me=socialmedia&cm=0)

[tophat27dt]

It was inevitable this would happen....so lets hear what routes they plan to operate from SEN.....why the secret?

[sxflyer]

Daily Munster is a given. Another poster is sure about Caen.

One or two daily Edinburgh is possible I suppose, I don't think they would do Belfast though.

Does anyone know if it is just one or more aircraft to be based? That will dictate what is possible. Paderborn is another long-served destination about to lose its London link

I wonder with the economy picking up a bit and SEN's profile improved if they might look again at Waterford, even if just a few weekly off peak flights for the leisure pax

[BHD2BFS]

Why is Belfast not a possibility, although load factors weren't great with ezy, total pax numbers where, although I think if they did start it would be to BHD rather than BFS as EI is now there, and with BE no longer flying to LGW and EI isn't increasing frequency on the route I think it would be quite a money spinner

[Expressflight]

I don't think anyone is actually sure about Caen yet, or any other specific route come to that, just that Caen is in the mix. Presumably an announcement from Aer Arann cannot be that far off.

[davidjohnson6]

Why is a Southend-Caen route being considered, when London City-Deauville already exists ? LCY-DOL sustains a F50 just 2x per week.

Yes, places like Bayeux or the D-Day beaches are a big tourist draw, along with other places like Honfleur and inland Normandy, and I know LCC fares will create demand where a F50 can't, but the business case as a whole still seems a bit weak.

Caen looks to me more like Ryanair / Stansted territory than anything from Southend.

[Expressflight]

davidjohnson6


The business case for CFR is actually quite strong and its natural catchment is much greater than that for DOL. When LON-CFR was previously operated, albeit some years ago, it carried 30,000 pax annually.


The points that you make in your second paragraph accurately illustrate the advantages that RE on the CFR route would have over the current limited Cityjet DOL service.

[tayair6]

There are also plans for a new route operated by start-up airline Join! to London Southend but a start date has not yet been indicated.[4] from CAEN

[tws123]

I suspect that Aer Arann's expansion will seriously affect Join!'s potential operation if they were to start-up.

[fjencl]

Join Regional Airlines Now in the final phase of securing investment capital and planning for an operational start by fall 2014.
:D:D:D

[LTNman]

Would anyone here risk their money on a new regional airline?

[PAXboy]

Friends of mine used SEN last week. Normally they go STN to ALI but were very impressed, finding SEN closer to home and much easier to park and use.

[kcockayne]

Caen has precious few links to anywhere else, so I can't see much potential for a Southend service !
Wishful thinking, maybe ?

[LAX_LHR]

This 'Join' airline seems to have been 4-5 years in the making, but yet to make their first flight. Either they are very meticulous with their planning or its one that will struggle to get off the ground and even then probably last a week.

[Barra Airways]

Join is a never ending story. They´ll never get airborne I suppose. The initators announced that they´ve acquired City Airline from Sweden last year, but they never started anything. Aviation has something to do with money. If you haven´t it, you won´t get off the ground.

[Expressflight]

Whether Join! will ever become a reality I don't know, but the circumstances which resulted in City Airline not being revived were very unfortunate and certainly not the fault of the project's initiators. I admire their resilience in continuing their efforts to launch Join! later this year.

[tws123]

This has been translated from a German forum taken from the Munster/Osnabruck FB page.


The Facebook team has a new standard response to questions about London:

Hello ...
Thank you for your interest in the London flights.
The last flight with CityJet London City Airport is at 28.03. take place.
As it stands the London connection will continue, but not seamless.
Also there will be a change of airport in London.
We currently believe, in February or early March at the latest to make an official announcement.
A first flight is expected to take place before the month of May.

[fjencl]

Oh no, we will have to wait a little longer for any announcement then.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[tophat27dt]

Even if a May 1st start up was planned, it still doesn't give time to advertise and convince passengers to use their services. I wont hold my breath on this one, but wish them luck if they do get off the ground at last.

[Expressflight]

tophat27dt


"...... if they do get off the ground at last."


Are you thinking that the airline is Join! then?

[stab3.5up]

Check out the aer lingus regional thread. I think that answers the questions. RE to set up SEN base.

[maliyahsdad2]

Check out the aer lingus regional thread. I think that answers the questions. RE to set up SEN base.
or see post 891 on this thread. ;)

[Expressflight]

Aer Arann are now recruiting cabin crew for their new SEN base. I would assume some form of announcement which will reveal their exact plans cannot be far off now.

[tws123]

I hope so! I thought it might have been this week, but guessing it will be next week instead.

[tophat27dt]

Yes....apart from Aer Lingus Regional and Join! I don't know of any others in the pipeline.

[8674planes]

ESSP and London Southend Airport sign an EGNOS Working Agreement.

Enterprise and Industry - European Commission - News (http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/newsroom/cf/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7304&lang=en)

[Cyrano]

Yes....apart from Aer Lingus Regional and Join! I don't know of any others in the pipeline.

In the case of Join! it has been an exceptionally long pipeline and I don't think the end is yet in sight...

[tws123]

German media reporting that SEN-FMO is a June 2014 start operated by Aer Arann. This has also been confirmed by the CEO of FMO. A June start would also be perfect for taking over the EDI route too.


*Correction: Lost in translation. Read Expressflight's comment below.*

[Expressflight]

As far as I can see in the newspaper article the CEO of FMO said only that an "established international airline" would run the route; nothing about Aer Arann. The reference to them seemed to be from rumours on various aviation forums.


I think it will be Aer Arann, either in their own right or under a franchised brand, but it's still a bit early to be talking of it as being definite. Remember Jetisfaction?

[8674planes]

Does anyone have a link to the news release?

[Expressflight]

Stobart Group have announced that they are selling a controlling interest in their road haulage business for £280 million in order to, among other things, provide additional capital and reduce debt to near zero.


They will now concentrate on building the Air, Biomass and Rail divisions. The entry into new unserved European markets by Aer Arann is specifically mentioned, as is attracting new carriers to SEN.

[Evanelpus]

Oh dear, Stobarts should stick to what they know and are very good at......trucking.:ugh:

I'm sorry, this smacks of potential disaster.

[Barling Magna]

I agree, although rail is a great way of getting money from the taxpayer! Let's hope Stobart haven't caught the aviation bug and lost their sense of reality. They seem to be doing fine at the moment, but this is a leap in the dark. I wish them all the luck in the world, but I'd echo Sergeant Wilson's word to Captain Mainwaring, "Do you think that's wise, sir?"

[Planespeaking]

Smacks a little of desperation to me, I hope the markets are more welcoming. Whatever happens SEN's future should be assured.

[asdf1234]

The key fact about this sale of the truck business is that it is to a group headed up by William Stobart. It seems the Stobart boys are sticking to trucking and Andrew Tinkler wants to play with trains and planes. Also interesting is that the truck division has minimal debt whilst the remaining trains, planes and bio business carries the debt burden.

[tayair6]

The Board of Stobart Group Ltd has announced a partial sale of its Transport and Distribution Division, to enable it to focus on its Infrastructure and Support Services Divisions and invest further in the Group's air, rail and biomass businesses.

The Transaction will position the Group to repay substantially all of its debt, accelerate the growth of the Continuing Group and buy back a proportion of its shares.

Stobart Group proposes to realise 51% of Eddie Stobart Logistics, the holding company of the parts of the Transport and Distribution Division being sold. The Transaction values the business being sold at approximately £280.8 million.

The third son of founder Eddie Stobart, William, will now head the spun-off Eddie Stobart Logistics.

The Stobart Group aims to focus on passenger growth at its London Southend and Carlisle Lake District airports, capitalising on demand for regional airport capacity in London and the South East and the UK as a whole

[davidjohnson6]

The FT (in its own unique way) was really quite rude about the trucking sell-off and made clear their strong disapproval. Definitely worth having a look at the 2 articles in the FT on this via Google for some entertainment.

[Cyrano]

Yes, I particularly like:

The impression is of a private equity business with a stock market listing. Minorities who reckon anything goes will stick around for the mind-blowing happening that turns Stobart Group into a mini-conglomerate marginally better focused on biomass and aviation. Squares will make excuses and leave the freak-out.

Full article here (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d0b5e112-a50f-11e3-8988-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2vHUe0jgv).

[tws123]

In my opinion more focus on a specific area of the Stobart business is a good idea, and this should result in a positive out come for SEN. I think what you have to remember also is that Stobart have hired experienced staff to work to try and entice airlines in (such as Paul Haynes from STN), and that we don't have Mr. Tinkler as head of negotiations!


Also does anyone have information on why 3 BinAir metros have suddenly been operating at SEN and where to/who for?

[vulcanised]

The stockmarket are not impressed - Stobart shares down over 15% since yesterday.

[LTNman]

Airports are a bit like football clubs. You can plough a lot of money into them but only a few will give you a decent return. I can't see easyjet giving Stobart much of a profit if any and it will only be a matter of time before Southend is sold off.

Stobart will be remembered as the company that had the vision to develop Southend but developing an airport and making a profit are two different things.

[Barling Magna]

You're probably right LTNman. I suppose there's a chance that Stobart's expansion of routes from SEN by Aer Arann may pay off, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Expressflight]

While I find the Stobart strategy of selling 51% of its transport business hard to understand, it will certainly focus their attention on developing SEN more vigorously. I believe that it is, in fact, less likely that they will sell SEN as it has now become part of their core business and can no longer be treated as a 'trophy' as someone recently described it to me

Obviously the current reliance on easyJet is a problem. albeit giving a nice platform from which to solve the problem, but this Summer may well see a considerable broadening of the SEN route network adding to its attractiveness to the market.

[LTNman]

Stobart has already admitted that Southend has limited expansion potential due to constraints not only physical but as laid out by Southend council. Stobart would need to diversify by buying other airports with borrowed money.

I would not be surprised that Stobart does not have a hidden agenda to sell the airport in maybe 2 to 5 years time. Nothing wrong with that but you only need to look at some of the airport owners in this country to see how things can take a turn for the worse under the wrong ownership.

[Expressflight]

I really cannot see Stobart buying any other airports in the foreseeable future. One of the main reasons for selling part of the transport business was to greatly reduce borrowings, so they are hardly going to take on another debt burden in a hurry.


Yes of course there are constraints on the expansion of SEN as there are at nearly all airports, LTN included, but currently only 50% of the movement cap limit is used and there is no Southend Council limit on passenger numbers. It should be remembered that until the terminal extension was opened late last month SEN was capacity constrained at times with its current level of activity, so it wasn't in a position to go in search of another major user. I know for a fact that last year one such user approached SEN and they were told that their planned programme could not be comfortably accommodated so could they start with a 'toe in the water' operation. They declined to do that. The SEN response to something similar today would be entirely different of course.

[Buster the Bear]

Rumours of Stobart commencing an operation at another UK airport.

[fjencl]

Where would that be

[BHD2BFS]

BHD?? to compete with BE and commence regional routes from Belfast that EI said they hoped to do last year ??

[Expressflight]

It's not an airline operation before anyone gets carried away, if Buster is referring to what I assume he is.

[vulcanised]

More rubbish.............

Southend Airport set for funding boost following Stobart sale (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/11062425.Southend_Airport_set_for_funding_boost_following_St obart_sale/)

I particularly enjoyed the bit about "Aer Lingus owner Aer Arann". :rolleyes:

[sxflyer]

I also like how we are helpfully informed which countries those little-known fringe regional destinations of Copenhagen, Frankfurt and Madrid are in

[davidjohnson6]

For all the talk, are Aer Arann actually going to offer flights from Southend to a non-DUB destination for summer 2014 or not ?

Advertising for staff is fairly cheap - until employment contracts are exchanged there is very low commitment. In an employee's first year, an employer has a fairly free hand to issue redundancy notices if so desired with little job protection afforded to the employee under English law. Of course if Aer Arann offer jobs under Irish law this might be different.

It's now mid March and if Aer Arann want ticket sales over the summer to be reasonably good, time is pressing for a publicity launch...

[tws123]

According to the Sunday Post Ireland (9th March 2014), Aer Arann are close to finalising a second franchise agreement with a major British carrier.

[LTNman]

To be called easyJet Lite:}

[cornishsimon]

Surely it's got to be either BA or BE ?


cs

[LTNman]

How do you work that one out?

[TartinTon]

My money would be on BMI given the past of the CEO and similarity of a/c size...some good possible synergies there (potentially)

[cumbrianboy]

is there a link to the sunday post article?

[tws123]

At the moment the article is only available to subscription holders so there is no point in providing a link, but you can read the headline and opening sentence if you go on their website and search 'Aer Arann'.


I don't think it will be BA or BE, but BMI sounds feasible.

[virginblue]

What exactly would be the point to get a franchise from a relatively unknown airline like bmi regional that operates 50 seat aircraft if you are operating ATR72s under the EI brand? Does the EI franchise not allow flights to the continent? And why would BE interested to franchise an airline that operates on a market that is attractive for BE itself? Franchises typically work differently: A larger airline franchises a smaller airline with a different fleet and market, e.g. BA franchises Sun Air.

[Cyrano]

What exactly would be the point to get a franchise from a relatively unknown airline like bmi regional that operates 50 seat aircraft if you are operating ATR72s under the EI brand? Does the EI franchise not allow flights to the continent? And why would BE interested to franchise an airline that operates on a market that is attractive for BE itself? Franchises typically work differently: A larger airline franchises a smaller airline with a different fleet and market, e.g. BA franchises Sun Air.

I'd hazard a guess that the EI franchise is limited to flights to/from Ireland (and with a particular focus on flights feeding the hub at DUB); I don't think that EI have a particular interest in expanding their brand further afield and it may not be attractive for RE when contemplating a new network to face the marketing expense that comes with establishing "Aer Lingus" as the brand name in these new secondary markets.

I do agree with you though that bmi is not a particularly obvious franchisor. There may be a certain amount of residual brand equity for bmi in the London market but it would hardly translate to a turboprop operation from Southend to secondary Continental points (for which the principal market will be at the other ends of the routes.) I don't see any points in the existing bmi regional network which would likely be served from Southend, so there's no commonality there. Then again, if Aer Arann is willing to write a cheque for x% of revenue as a franchise fee, I could imagine bmi regional (or indeed flyBE) gritting their teeth and saying "to hell with the lack of strategic rationale, they want to do this, so why shouldn't we just take their money?" :hmm:

Incidentally, you mention the (very relevant) example of BA and Sun-Air. Are we entirely sure that BA (!) would not contemplate signing a franchise deal to feed secondary European points into London on a purely point-to-point basis, if Stobart/RE are waving chequebooks around?

[davidjohnson6]

BA signing a franchise deal means licensing their brand to another company and giving them limited freedom to use that brand to sell a product or service.
By necessity, the act of brand licencing means BA would give up some meaningful degree of control of their brand. The question is how the franchise royalty stacks up against the change in perceived value of the BA brand.

How willing would BA be to see their logo advertising flights to Southend ? SEN is a nice airport (been through twice) but it still has a bit of a LCC feel that might not gel with BA's 'To fly to serve' marketing approach. On the same theme, before BA offloaded regional ops to Flybe, the presence of BA at Luton for example felt (to me at least) somewhat odd

[EuroWings]

Aside from BE/BA, what about VS? They're back on the short-haul scene and it's a bit of extra cash for them. Sure ATRs out of SEN isn't that glamorous, but neither was the Viscount to Maastricht (?) or that LTN-DUB franchise thing they had. Virgin Group in general have little problem with their name being used on airlines (and other enterprises) where they aren't holding controlling stakes. Just what came to mind.

[SARF]

Sen is good for a low key airline but turbo props will not have the appeal of a A319 to anywhere. There is a market for a big player to open up there for regional stuff. Will it happen ? I doubt it

[mikkie4]

On the RYANAIR page someone said that RYANAIR are getting some 737-400s for the summer, could SEN have been talking to MOL about using the airport.even though MOL stated that SEN was a BACKWATER AIRFIELD and that it would never make it as a PROPPer AIRPORT,maybe he has had a change of heart,or he has seen how well EZY are doing 737-400 should have no problems operating from SEN

[davidjohnson6]

mikkie - anything is possible but you might like to ask yourself what is not just possible but highly probable instead. If MOL were to base 737-400s at Southend, there would need to be clear commercial reasons for doing so, not just because they differ from FR's standard 737-800 aircraft, but also because the summer 2014 season that went on sale 5 or 6 months ago begins in less than 3 weeks time, drastically reducing the time for people to buy tickets for any new routes.

Imagine you were in MOL's shoes and ask yourself what you would be thinking about SEN at this point...

[LTNman]

Stobart is by far the largest shareholder in Aer Arann and has only one route to Southend to show for their investment after the disaster of moving the Waterford service across London.

So who is pulling the strings here to set up a Southend base? Stobart who are desperate for more passengers at their airport or the management team at Aer Arann?

Would Aer Arrann be even thinking of a base at Southend if it wasn't for the pressure they are no doubt under from their largest shareholder?

[Hangar6]

Well Jeanie Mac give the man a chance ,
We all now the current aer Arann fleet are committed to EIR for next ten years , so let him at least get a plane first as well as crew , hats us what's the hurry ?
EI-FCY and. EI-FAZ are due soon so maybe he has to wait for a plane before he love bombs the local mejia !

[Hangar6]

Well Jeanie Mac give the man a chance ,
We all know the current aer Arann fleet are committed to EIR for next ten years , so let him at least get a plane first as well as crew , what's the hurry ?
EI-FCY and. EI-FAZ are due soon so maybe he has to wait for a plane before he love bombs the local meeja

[Expressflight]

Well, there has certainly been no shortage of possibilities being put forward on here over the past few days.

I'm surprised that nobody noticed that ch-aviation.com reported early yesterday that the SEN-FMO would operate under the Aer Lingus Regional brand, although they didn't quote any source for that statement.

No guesses from me this time I'm afraid.

[EI-BUD]

I think the success of RE at SEN hinges on the branding and marketing . Stobart needs to make sure this is right from the word go. EI is not the brand for London to Europe, it's been tried but the key issue is brand awareness in those no. Ireland and UK destinations.

Brands like BA BE even Bmi all good ideas, if possible of course but let's think long term would BA be suitable for non BA destinations like Carlisle or another non London airport that Stobart could buy.

Moreover, BA may like to pursue a franchise operation in the future there are few regional operators left and BA might at some point in time go after this eve though it has given up on same in the UK before ....

[virginblue]

Incidentally, you mention the (very relevant) example of BA and Sun-Air. Are we entirely sure that BA (!) would not contemplate signing a franchise deal to feed secondary European points into London on a purely point-to-point basis, if Stobart/RE are waving chequebooks around?

BA has scaled down franchising extremely. My understanding is that Sun Air is a bit of a special case.


I'm surprised that nobody noticed that ch-aviation.com reported early yesterday that the SEN-FMO would operate under the Aer Lingus Regional brand, although they didn't quote any source for that statement.

The online version of the local Muenster newspaper ran a poorly researched piece on the London flights from Muenster (more or less rumours from various pieced together for an article) and when mentioning Aer Arann as a likely candidate, they simply used an EI opb RE picture. I guess that is where ch-aviaiton got its information from. Sometimes they have insider info, but often they simply collect info from the www.

[Fairdealfrank]

Brands like BA BE even Bmi all good ideas, if possible of course but let's think long term would BA be suitable for non BA destinations like Carlisle or another non London airport that Stobart could buy.

Moreover, BA may like to pursue a franchise operation in the future there are few regional operators left and BA might at some point in time go after this eve though it has given up on same in the UK before ....


Can't see BA being interested in SEN bearing in mind their operation at neighbouring LCY.

As for thin domestic and near-abroad routes, perhaps the only interst for BA would be to feed the longhaul network at LHR. That's not possible at present and won't be unless and until it expands.

Under those circumstances, would imagine that BA would have an arrangement with one or more of the smaller carriers (code share, through ticketing, etc.), as it does not have small enough aircraft and an A319 once/day won't cut it (frequency required).

Perhaps BE could be a candidate for this as BA is already a part-owner of it, but it's very far in the future if at all!

BD regional on the other hand might very well be a candidate for SEN operations, as they currently have no operations in the southeast and small aircraft suitable for thin routes to/from SEN. Let's face it, they're not going back to LHR any time soon!

[LTNman]

Found this on the airports website. Was the info provided just to fill a rather empty arrivals board :E


Flight No EZYTOW Origin TOWED FROM/TO HANGAR Scheduled 04:00 ARRIVED 21:30

So who's hangar does easyjet use at Southend?

[tws123]

I think a few EZY aircraft will be having a new paint job in one of the hangars, not sure who with though. Not really sure why they bother putting it on the arrivals/departures board!?

[8674planes]

They've been using Lashams and Air Livery's

[mikkie4]

G-EZBF got a nice TARTAN paint job, rolled out this morning

[vulcanised]

An R22 caused a minor incident at around midday.

Sounded as though it tripped over a piece of airport infrastructure.

[tayair6]

Ezy return route was divert to stn airport due to fog at sen

[LTNman]

Don't know how long it has been foggy but tonight's arrivals all seem to have ended up at Stansted. Was it foggy last night?

[mikkie4]

BERLIN landed at SEN as normal ,after quite a detour via STN

[tayair6]

What about Geneva are they still at STN ?

[virginblue]

While all the theories about who could franchise RE are entertaining, you need to have in mind that usually well established brands are rather reluctant to franchise. So it is not so much the question to whom RE is paying a fee, but who would be willing to allow RE to use its brand. Because the use of a well established, there are considerable risks to damage the own brand if it is franchised to an outfit like RE that was/is in financial trouble and not really well established at SEN.

[Cyrano]

there are considerable risks to damage the own brand if it is franchised to an outfit like RE that was/is in financial trouble and really well established at SEN.

Now I know this is not what you're suggesting, but your reference to "really well established at SEN" just made me think... hmm, EZY is well established at SEN but there's a limit to how many more 150-seaters it can add. Wouldn't there be some merit in trying out an "easyProp" concept to see if it could work at other bases (and Netherlands and France are two strong EZY markets already, though not uniformly suited to service with 150-seaters in all markets).

I know we've been through pretty much every possible candidate (I thought of CityJet as one candidate a week or two ago!), and when we get the answer, it will presumably (hopefully) all make sense... but with no evidence whatsover, I find myself wondering about the feasibility of easyJet entering into a franchise...

[EssexMan61]

Now - in my humble opinion - and having used them all - Southend is by FAR the most pleasant to use of all the London airports. I suspect that many of the negative posters on here have never even used Southend!!!. Indeed - if they had - they would surely only have good things to say (unless - admittedly - they had arrived after 2300hrs. to be faced with the lack of service to London Liverpool Street provided by Abellio Greater Anglia!!).


BUT - I do hope that this business of the new airline / franchise blah blah blah.... is finally put to bed very soon. It really is starting to get boring. Without giving anything away - can any of the more aviation professional types on here at least give us an informed timescale as to when we will hear something concrete about all this? No names - just a date??


Any offers??

[Expressflight]

It's the usual problem I'm afraid, the more you know the less you can wisely say.

[Expressflight]

It's interesting that SEN was chosen as the London arrival airport for FIFA's brightly-painted MD-83 earlier this week. It departed early this morning to Glasgow to continue its World Tour.

[SARF]

Was spotted by a friend. Was coca cola involved ?

[LTNman]

Now - in my humble opinion - and having used them all - Southend is by FAR the most pleasant to use of all the London airports. I suspect that many of the negative posters on here have never even used Southend!!!.


That's because Southend is a small airport but all small airports want to become big airports and that is in part where the trouble begins.

Like all airport owners Southend is unlikely to turn passengers and airlines away. First off that nice little long term car park that is only a few steps from the terminal will be moved to the other side of the airport. The same will happen to the car hire. Some of the aircraft stands will become remote so in all three cases buses will have to be used to move passengers.

Traffic will queue to get to the drop off zone and the terminal will start to creek at busy times. There will be a lack of seating, passengers will start to join long queues to get airside and join another long queue to get through immigration when they get home. Even if they make it through immigration a lack of baggage belts will be another issue.

Supporters of Southend will start to admit there is a problem but will still want more and more routes even if the passenger experience goes down hill.

Think it could never happen? Think again and have a look at these two photos of Luton as both Luton and Southend have limited space to expand. http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/527527-luton-history-nostalgia-2.html#post8365217 and now this one http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/527514-luton-8-a-24.html#post8338271

Exciting times lay ahead for Southend as how can the airport not become successful but at some point the pain will begin and the passenger experience will not be quite as good as it is today.

For the the true supporters here remember these times and remember what Southend was like in the past. If you are all still around in 20 years time you will be pinching yourself and marveling at what has happened so now look at my two links.:ok:

[EssexMan61]

LTNman -


You speak good sense - but I honestly do not see that over-expansion will ever become an issue for Southend. What with Nestuda Way, the railway line, the retail park (bet they regret that now!!), and - obviously - the runway limitations - there will simply not be scope for Southend to develop beyond the already stated Stobart aims. And I think those aims will be in touch with the feelings of the majority of the local Rochford / Southend population.


With reference to Expressflight's post re the FIFA plane - there is a photo of this - VERY - colourful - plane on the Southend Airport Facebook page.

[Skipness One Echo]

Southend is by FAR the most pleasant to use of all the London airports.
Well that depends on how well London City is doing and avoiding an off day let's be honest.

OK am I alone in thinking that very few seriously see SEN as a London airport? No disrespect to a good development for the local area but it's no more a London airport than Manston or Oxford. Southend-on-Sea may do well out of it coupled with better connections for local holiday makers and businesses but for the love of God, if you guys actually were to become a "London" airport, the customer experience would tank dramatically!
The proof of the pudding is the profile of the users. I am guessing local, outbound and leisure predominate,can anyone link to some numbers?

[EssexMan61]

Yes - of course - London City is the only "real" London airport. But why pick on Southend (South Essex) as against Stansted (North Essex), Luton (Bedfordshire), or Gatwick (West Sussex!!!). Even Heathrow - in the London Borough of Hounslow - is arguably in Middlesex.


So - Mr. Skipness - which of the aforementioned airports (aside from City) is most convenient for the Canary Wharf / City sector?? Yes - I think that would be London Southend - no?? Should we try some comparable trips from Luton / Gatwick / Stansted? Stansted may put in a good shout - IF you want to go direct to Liverpool Street and not Docklands / Canary Wharf. With the Southend Vic. line interchange at Stratford you are bang in the middle of all the East London / City options. If you are heading for the joys of Kings Cross or Vauxhall then obviously Luton / Gatwick would win out.


You - and others - simply fail to take into account the fact that you really CAN - with hand luggage only - be on the rail platform 5 minutes after disembarking from the plane at Southend. I have done it many times!!! Yes - I know that you are then at the whim of Abellio Greater Anglia - but compare that to where you would be 5 minutes after disembarkation at Stansted / Luton / Gatwick??? Probably still in the immigration queue!!

[cumbrianboy]

National Rail, London Stansted Airport - Liverpool Street: 47 mins. Off peak return (valid for 1 month): £34

National Rail, London Southend Airport - Liverpool Street: 53 mins. Off peak return (valid for month): £23

So, it takes 5 mins longer on the train, but the journey from aircraft to train is considerably less at SEN than STN, and at SEN the train is £11 cheaper …

Remind me again why SEN is not a good London airport?

[Skipness One Echo]

You - and others - simply fail to take into account the fact that you really CAN - with hand luggage only - be on the rail platform 5 minutes after disembarking from the plane at Southend.
Do not assume what I know, read what I say. My own local airport is Prestwick, better connected and cheaper to get to Glasgow via the rail network than Glasgow Airport. My lesson from that? It made little difference as PIK is still dying on it's backside despite excellent connectivity via rail and a new motorway. My background is a marketing analyst and what the public are willing to do versus what the public say are two different things much of the time. LGW and STN are both very well plugged into and connected to the rail network yet both have a different customer profile. My key point is each airport will have a demographic, regardless of ease of access, and that demographic will drive the profile of routes it can sustain. For example easyJet dropping EDI is a clue there. Yes you have a great new local airport, stop being so chippy for a minute and read what I said. It's never going to be a London airport any more than Oxford, LTN and STN are at least within sight of the M25.
That doesn't mean it won't do well as a business, it suggests to me that the suited and booted brigade won't be getting the train all the way to Southend to board easyJet any more than they already do to STN.

Remind me again why SEN is not a good London airport?
Because it's on the coast and very far away. Regardless of how good the trains are, it's ON THE COAST. People know that sort of thing, that's why I asked if there was any numbers of demographics and region of origin done. The other key piece is inbound / outbound ratio, is most traffic UK holiday makers going abroad in which case is SEN having any impact driving additional custom beyond the locale into London or is it just canniballising STN?

[cumbrianboy]

That's a fair point, but there are other issues at play here. I would suspect the easy jet route to EDI was dropped not because the suited brigade don't want to go to SEN, but a single daily flight on a route which should easily be doable for the suits as a day trip doesn't work, and I suspect it is the business traffic that drives these routes and keeps them going so a single daily was sort of always a bit of a risk.

it seems to me the SEN is not in the near future going to be seen as a major London airport in the way Gatwick is, but this is as much to do with the limited capacity of the airport. Let's face it, 99% of the country have never used London City and probably never will, but it's still a London airport it just serves its own niche.

In addition, SEN is finding and will continue to develop it's own niche. Not everyone wants to go central London and for the east parts of the city SEN is a great alternative.

For routes like EDI however it's a frequency / capacity issue. Now I would suspect a regional with a 50-70 seat aircraft operating 2-3 daily returns would work beautifully for something like EDI - SEN.

And so what if it's on the coast? Gatwick is half way to brighton - it's just an awareness issue and the more people that use SEN the more it will be understood.

I'm not into one airport vs another, it's a fruitless exercise I am just saying SEN is just as good an alternative for many parts of London and it has a role to play … and yes teething problems aside it's got off to a good start

[EssexMan61]

With the greatest of respect - I must still argue with you SOE. Southend Airport is actually a few kilometres away from the coast - but what difference does that make? Stansted is in the North Essex countryside - Luton is in Bedfordshire - Gatwick is in the jolly nice area of West Sussex. Perhaps you would care to publish how far away Stansted, Luton, Gatwick, and Heathrow are from the Canary Wharf centre of London's financial district?


WHY is Southend any less of a London airport than Luton / Stansted / Gatwick? Let's be honest - they are ALL way out side of London - why just pick on Southend?


With regard to being chippy - you do seem to have an anti-Southend view Skipness - WHY???? The"demographic" for Southend - at a guess - will be the relatively well-off areas of South and mid-Essex and the teeming millions of ( some very) well-off leisure / business users in East London. A totally mixed bag.


I myself am a regular traveller to Spain, France and Scotland. I have GLADLY given up Stansted to go to Malaga and Edinburgh from Southend (no more Edinburgh after June - sad but c'est la vie) but will continue to use Luton for Nimes as there is no other option. Why am I "cannibalising" Stansted? Stansted is very inconvenient for people like me in South Essex - Southend is much more convenient and much more pleasant.


EDIT - Totally agree with you cumbrianboy.

[davidjohnson6]

It's worth remembering that in the late 1990s Stansted was very much underused and perceived as an airport with very few passengers. I really don't want to get into the BAA cross subsidy / merits of LCC issues but STN has now become accepted as an airport people in London will actively consider for leisure. Took many years for STN to migrate in public perception from empty shell to busy. It will likely take SEN a long time to gain public acceptance from people in London rather than just Essex.

[Skipness One Echo]

With regard to being chippy - you do seem to have an anti-Southend view Skipness - WHY???? The"demographic" for Southend - at a guess - will be the relatively well-off areas of South and mid-Essex and the teeming millions of ( some very) well-off leisure / business users in East London. A totally mixed bag.
The demographic will proportionally be biased far more towards outbound as I suspect SEN might become the local airport of choice for people going on holiday and serve the community well. That's nowhere near becoming a strategic asset in serving London which is what I am questioning, and indeed I would be surprised if that's what the town wants.

Essexman you can be as close as you say the square mile but if that's not the market that ends up using the airport, then that's not the issue. I am well aware where the other airports in the area are thanks. I know how far Canary Wharf is from each airport as I live five minutes away on foot from South Quay. You realise that with your personal example, you're kinda making my point for me? No?

[Expressflight]

Skipness One Echo

You are obviously as entitled to your opinion on the merits of SEN being a true London airport as anyone who believes the contrary, but I think a couple of your reasons are dubious and comparisons with Manston and Oxford will raise more than a few eyebrows I feel.

SEN is on the shore of the Thames Estuary and not "on the coast" in the usually accepted sense. It's position relative to water is irrelevant surely.

The EDI route has not worked for the very reason that has been stated, in that a double-daily is the minimum requirement to attract the business traveller and at the time of writing this has not been tried.

I don't have any verifiable figures to support this, but anecdotal evidence suggests that SEN attracts users from a much wider catchment than would at first sight be expected. Yes, it is largely outbound traffic at present but that is likely to change and the over reliance on leisure traffic will also reduce as a consequence.

I agree that it will take time for SEN to become a natural choice for the majority of London-based passengers but it is still early days and ads such as those aired recently on London radio stations will help.

Can we not all applaud the complete transformation that SEN has achieved in just two years and wait and see how it evolves over the next couple of years? I'm not sure than many people would have predicted it would have a throughput of one million pax annually at this stage, but it does.

[european130]

l cannot give you number of leisure vs business people using the airport, but l am an American who travels on business to my head office in the east end of London. l have been flying through SEN since the Aer Lingus link started as it is so much easier and quicker than using LGW, LCY or LHR. Now LCY is great but l generally arrive on Sunday morning and the airport does not open until afternoon on Sundays. So l flt MCO/DUB/SEN its quick and l take the train to Stratford and then the central line tube to my hotel. Plus on the return clearing in DUB through US Customs is so, so easy.

[FRatSTN]

For once I actually agree pretty much with SOE.

Expressflight, your arguments only help prove the point that SEN covers a fairly local catchment area. Due to your location, it's no wonder you see SEN as a breeze to use. There's by no means anything wrong with that, it's people in your shoes helping SEN to prosper.

However you completely fail to recognise the bigger picture. It's a competitive market out there with 5 much bigger rivals. SEN is always likely to struggle to serve London in the proportions that LHR, LGW, STN, LTN and LCY are. SEN has indeed done very well and hats off to them. But they are only going to ever be a small regional airport on the outskirts of London which it's local catchment and only a handful of people travelling to/from London are likely to use and value very much.

Further afield it becomes much less attractive, regardless of its service level. For example, around Coventry and Leicester where I am, LTN, STN and even LGW are all regularly used. I guarantee you that SEN probably wouldn't even come close to consideration, that's if it's even known as a commercial passenger airport!

Around Coventry in particular you even see National Express Coaches and Airport Taxis all the time with ads and prices for transfers to LTN, STN and LGW airports, but never SEN. You must surely see the point!?

[LGS6753]

No-one has picked up on SOE's point that SEN is "-on-sea", meaning it has a limited catchment area.

Draw a 30 mile radius circle centred on any airport, and generally you've got it's core carchment area. If half, or a third, of that circle is sea, then few people will live there and that will reduce the airport's catchment area. If some of that circle contains a wide estuary with no direct crossing, land on the opposite bank will not be core catchment area either.

Southend suffers from both effects; few people live east of the airport and North Kent's access to the airport is convoluted, to say the least.

I wish SEN every success, but I don't expect it to ever be more than a local airport.

[tophat27dt]

I do think we have, once again, exhausted the debate on whether SEN should be called "London-Southend", or how many minutes the trains take to arrive in London.
The debate started concerning any new flights to be announced soon.
Stobarts have already stated that when the extended terminal is officially opened at the end of March, and they have something to announce concerning new routes, we will be the first to hear about it.
So, please, let's wait and see. Facts are better than dreams.

[cumbrianboy]

well said tophat ...

[tws123]

Provisional statistics show 72,786 for the month of February. The Krakow pax is not good at all (3,928) and Edinburgh (4,266) slightly better than that. Dublin saw a slight decrease (-10%) but not too worrying at the moment. Jersey has been cut significantly (-42%). Amsterdam (+10%), Geneva (+75%) and Barcelona (+18%) are still performing well. Venice up 61% and Berlin looking steady. Tenerife had an average load of 143/180 (79%) which is good too. Bucket and spade routes such as Alicante and Palma de Mallorca* saw increases, while Malaga saw a slight decrease (*new for winter season with EZY).

[Nextprop]

The Krakow passenger figures seem perfectly reasonable. Only 4 flights per week operated in February, which gives a load factor of 79%. Hardly a disaster.

[tws123]

My mistake I just remember the figure being more around the 4,500 mark in previous months, I can't remember it being below 4,000 before. But as you say actually that would appear pretty good. Shame it is being dropped.

[Buster the Bear]

Just heard a new service to Munster? That was a brilliant trooping route once.

[IB4138]

Southend is actually more convenient than Gatwick, if you can fly into there, if you are going to East Kent, but not too many people have realised that yet.

[sxflyer]

Yes the KRK pax numbers have always been good, but they must haze their reasons for dropping it - low onboard spend and lack of revenue from hotel/car bookings possibly if it's migrant workers using it?

SXF figures are decent, anecdotally the outbound flight does very well but the inbound less so with the late arrival.

DUB is an interesting one, pax per flight are up but LF down - fewer flights compared to last Feb (no Sat evening or Tue/Wed pm) but largely now a 72 rather than the 42. There were also a few cancellations (5/6?) due to poor weather at either end