SOUTHEND - 4

[Phileas Fogg]

I worked in OST for two or three years, with little exception about the only passenger flights we saw were diversions from BRU.

[Aero Mad]

Cymmon - could you please explain your comment about my being on board a flight to Oostende ? I don't understand what you are trying to say either to or about me

davidjohnson6, I suspect it's a gentle prod at your involvement as protagonist in the Stansted spelling saga which thread-lurkers like myself had to endure overleaf - thus as Stanstead must be Stanste (to Cymmon) Ostend must be Oostende. Although we can probably be united in agreement that Bruges is greatly more edifying as a city than Ostend in nearly ever way, I don't think it was anything more cynical than that.

But once the titans involved have quite satiated their hunger for grammar & spelling Naziism, I'll pop back to Loo-tun. And, whilst I'm at it, get my coat.

[virginblue]

SEN-DUS was operated back when there were no three daily flights each from STN and LCY...

DUS has plenty of flights from LHR, LGW, LCY and STN. Don't think there is room for a once daily SEN service.

I think Flybe will need to look for a third-level airport like PAD, SCN or ERF without a LON service and not a major airport for which the SEN service would be like the 20th daily London flight.

[smallpilot]

Still think Stobart/ Flybe should look at taking on the EDI route., or if not GLA. I cant understand why Easyjet are dropping EDI, got the impression the flights were heavily used?

[EuroChallenger]

The Dusseldorf flight from Leeds always seems to do well, (Jet2) but Hamburg was quickly dropped.

[virginblue]

As I had suggested earlier, one reason why Stobart Air is not offering GLA/EDI/BFS could be that the franchsie agreement only covers international flights but not domestic flights. Given that Flybe's main business is domestic flights with 78 seater aircraft, they may very well be happy to have Loganair operating domestic flights in 30 seater markets, but not Stobart Air with 70 seaters on routes that potentially could be of interest for Flybe's Q400 as well. Who knows...

[EI-BUD]

Virginblue,
Just reading your comments there; I sense that StobartAir can fly whatever route it wants. But I cannot confirm if there are stipulations about flying domestically or not. However, their ambition to fly Carlisle Southend suggests that domestics are very much in scope ( of course Carlisle apt approval another).

What it seems to me is that Stobart Air are trying to in the main identify gaps in the market served from London (or sides of London) and develop them accordingly in a niche fashion .

What would be interesting would be if Stobart wanted to launch SEN BHD, the choice of brand that would be utilised, given the development of EI in the London Belfast market yet the strength of BE as a bend too .

Of course EIR not having a base in BHD may be a determining factor but nonetheless if they did the choice would surely be a little contentious ...

[FLYAIR10]

I worked in OST for two or three years, with little exception about the only passenger flights we saw were diversions from BRU.
I think this needs to be corrected a bit. Currently there are 13 regular destinations being offered from OST airport. Last year they handled some 247.000 PAX. More people are discovering the convenience of a local regional airport. If current trend continues (1Q2014:+26%), they will reach some 280K-300K passengers.At this moment only Med. destinationas are offered,but I believe there are again opportunities to relaunch after so many years the SEN-OST connection. In fact it would offer the fastest connection between Western-Belgium cities (such as Gent,Bruges,Zeebrugge,Ostend,Ypres,..) ,and not only London-City centre,but also the whole of NE London with cities such as , Ipswich, Cambridge, Harwich, Felixstowe,etc...
Someone willing to travel from W-Belgium to London with arrival before 10AM,needs to take the train between 6AM-6.30AM for arrival in st-Pancras at 09.57. Total travelling time more than 4 hours and 1-2 transfers with a cost for a morning/evening return ticket being a staggering EUR 639.(lower fares available,but very much off-peak) If OST-SEN airconnection would be available,same person could leave from OST around a more convenient 8AM and arrive in London Liverpool station around 9.15. And with the current trainfares,there should be some room to come to a decent air/train fare via SEN. In previous posts some people referred to the competition of the Chunnel when comparing with the succesful SEN-OST Sixties connection. True, but in the meantime SEN has some extra assets such as the trainstation and the relative good connection with London. Also SEN-OST should not be seen as a standalone route,but in combination with connections to/from DUB,EDI,JER,...
So,based on this ,I believe airlines currently operating from SEN (or potential newcomers) should give this idea some thought.:)

[Cloud1]

What about somewhere like Maastricht? Would that work from SEN? I appreciate it's the Netherlands but looks like it's fairly straight forward to get to DUS or CGN by main road

[WJ888]

This Thursday, a new route from Maastricht will be announced, according to local news reports. The airline and destination have not been revealed yet. Could this be the replacement for Cologne?

[tws123]

Maastricht lost its London connection when FR pulled the STN route at the end of March, and being a similar distance to CGN it is the most likely candidate in my opinion.

[mikkie4]

From another website......MAASTRICHT STARTS 03 JULY 2014 STOBART AIR

[pabely]

Good luck! with train connections being better or just as good from Schiphol, is there going to be a great demand?
Even the Maastricht airport web site still shows RYR!

[Steviec9]

I should think any hope of EDI or BFS/BHD returning with Stobart Air is fading now that Flybe have announced these as new routes from LCY.

[tophat27dt]

Maastricht flights are still not confirmed by anybody as I write. Maastricht and Aachen sit close together but I am a little worried that not many locals will want to go there compared to CGN. After carrying thousands of pax to Edinburgh, Belfast and Krakow, I am surprised nobody has jumped in with a smaller aircraft to win some of this market back.

[tayair6]

Flybe have announce expansion at LCY
In a major expansion that will see the airline significantly boost connectivity between the UK regions and Ireland to and from London, Flybe has signed a five-year agreement with London City Airport (LCY) to commence domestic and international operations to/from London City with effect from 27 October 2014.

[Ironsjack]

Can find it nowhere except the Wiki page for Maastricht, hardly reliable sources! We will wait and see.

[tws123]

Hopefully tomorrow we'll find out. And as for what Wikipedia says... :ugh:

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Steviec9 said I should think any hope of EDI or BFS/BHD returning with Stobart Air is fading now that Flybe have announced these as new routes from LCY.

I agree and can only put it down to the fact that airlines must prefer to take unnecessary risks, rather than opt for dead certs that will make them money!! With all the readers letters in the local press pleading for the
Edinburgh route (in particular) to continue, it defies logic.

[Barling Magna]

Crazy that flyBE are now planning to operate from LCY to EDI versus BA's Airbuses when they would have a guaranteed load factor from SEN....

[LTNman]

From the BBC

As part of the London City Airport deal, Flybe also plans to introduce to services to European ski resorts, as well as to destinations in France and northern Spain

So Flybe are going into competition for new routes with Stobart and Southend. The best bit is that Stobart will be paying a fee to their competitor for every passenger they carry. So does Stobart now see Flybe as a friend or foe?

[SWBKCB]

Only if BE launch Caen from LCY - unlikely?

Must admit that like everybody else I find LCY-EDI a strange move

[davidjohnson6]

Let us suppose that Stobart Air are considering a Southend-Dijon route. Suppose also that Flybe open a LCY-Lyon route, as part of their regional France / ski market strategy.

Trains from Dijon to Lyon or Paris take about 1h30. Dijon has no flights to the UK. Would Flybe in this scenario be trampling on Stobart Air's turf ?

Rather theoretical at this stage I agree, but trying to illustrate that competition need not be direct to have an impact.

[LTNman]

I wonder if Stobart knew about Flybe's plans to open up a base at City before they signed a franchise agreement? I bet they didn't the same way that they didn't have a clue about what was going on at Cologne. Even though both airports serve different markets I would think that Flybe City routes would stop an equivalent route from Southend from being started.

[davidjohnson6]

Worth remembering that the 2 parties to the franchise agreement are stuck with each other for a number of years and will have to find a way to get along with each other. It is extremely difficult to draw up a legal agreement around long term commerce that will cover every possible scenario. Senior management teams should expect some horse trading with their counterparts over future years.

A gentleman's agreement can go a long way to solving potential commercial disputes if both parties consider it in their interests. Flybe and Loganair have managed to work together for a long time without feeling the need to call for lawyers extensively or major disputes to be revealed in public.

[vulcanised]

Seems to me that Flybe have always been lukewarm about SEN.

They could have made so much of their position in pre-Stobart days, but never capitalised on it.

[SENChris]

They could have made so much of their position in pre-Stobart days, but never capitalised on it.

Perhaps, but it's worth remembering that in pre-Stobart days there was only a very rudimentary terminal and no direct rail access. It would seem that Flybe believes that they need a presence at a major London airport (particularly for the domestic routes) which SEN clearly is not (yet?).

What is more disappointing is the talk of potential regional French leisure routes which would appear to encroach on Southend / Stobart Air's new franchise strategy.

[Jamie2k9]

I wonder if Stobart knew about Flybe's plans to open up a base at City before they signed a franchise agreement? I bet they didn't the same way that they didn't have a clue about what was going on at Cologne. Even though both airports serve different markets I would think that Flybe City routes would stop an equivalent route from Southend from being started.

Don't see how this has any relevance on Flybe's LCY news.

Flybe have no real interest in SEN, if they did they would be operating their own metal. Stobart are taking all the risk with these new routes and BE earning extra revenue from allowing their brand name to be used. If they had of known about LCY plans I'm sure Stobart had little choice as what other British brand would of sold the Stobart routes. Flybe don't need SEN or Stobart but will gladly take the revenue it may bring.

Not overly convinced the Stobart routes will be successful long term either.

Crazy that flyBE are now planning to operate from LCY to EDI versus BA's Airbuses when they would have a guaranteed load factor from SEN....

Nothing crazy about it, yes LCY may not work out for them up aginst competitors however operating the same routes form SEN would be commercial suicide. They picked the best out of the limited choice.

[Cyrano]

What is more disappointing is the talk of potential regional French leisure routes which would appear to encroach on Southend / Stobart Air's new franchise strategy.

I wouldn't get too concerned about this. France is a big country and the ATR can't economically go much further than Dijon or (for example) Nantes (I'm not saying it's incapable of flying further, just that it's incapable of flying further and making money). Flybe can very easily decide to launch (for example) Limoges, Bergerac, Perpignan, and Avignon without encroaching on Stobart's radius of action.

[insuindi]

FMO Sunday service retimed to the originally planned SEN-CGN timing, making it considerably more attractive for weekend travellers.

[SENChris]

Maastricht flights are now on sale on the Flybe website starting 10th July.

[tayair6]

Good news and hoping for more route like South France

[willy wombat]

Personally I don't hold out much hope for a number of these new routes. Small airport to small airport is not normally a recipe for success unless there's a particular connection eg same significant industry at both ends of the route. I think they would have been much better trying to take a very small share of a very large market and looked at Brussels, Paris etc

[Expressflight]

I really don't think that you can call the Flybe/Stobart Air route network "small airport to small airport" as the "particular connection" is this case is metropolitan London.

One can reasonably argue the merits of the various London airports with regard to their travel times to different parts of London, but I'm sure that potential travellers from the European cities on the network will consider London Southend a perfectly acceptable arrival airport.

Effective marketing is usually the key to success in the case of routes which have previously been unserved for a period of time and I'm sure the parties concerned are trying very hard to achieve that in this case.

[willy wombat]

Only time will tell. It will be interesting to see what happens. Do you or anyone else down SEN way have the split for easy as to what percentage pax UK originating vs other end of route originating. That may give us a clue as to what extent SEN being recognised as a gateway to London.

[Expressflight]

I don't think the SEN easyJet split on pax origins would be very useful except on perhaps AMS and SXF but, no, I don't have that information


I see that anna.aero interviewed Flybe CCO Paul Simmons and asked him specifically about the LCY operation:

aa: "Do you envisage any potential conflicts with the London Southend operation for Stobart Air?"
PS: "Not really: the London Southend offering ...... is more leisure-based whereas our operations at London City will be more business-based."

[vulcanised]

I am wondering if SEN has reached a temporary peak and this year will be more about consolidation.

[tws123]

Well one things for sure, easyJet are certainly moving towards consolidating the SEN base by cutting the less successful routes and increasing frequencies on the more popular ones such as AMS up to 3x daily.

[vulcanised]

The Vulcan group are holding an open day on Sunday (27th).

[tayair6]

Stobart Air hires former Ryanair and BMI Baby executives
Interim chief executive Sean Brogan to take over as chairman in management shake-up

[Phileas Fogg]

I think they would have been much better trying to take a very small share of a very large market and looked at Brussels

Brussels is very far from a very large market unless one's trade is dog poo!

[Cyrano]

Only time will tell. It will be interesting to see what happens. Do you or anyone else down SEN way have the split for easy as to what percentage pax UK originating vs other end of route originating. That may give us a clue as to what extent SEN being recognised as a gateway to London.

I wouldn't really agree, to be honest. On all existing routes, SEN is one London airport among others so is competing with the other London airports. On the new Stobart Air routes, SEN is the only London airport served, so the marketing in each of the outstations will be:
FLY DIRECT TO LONDON (Southend)

and if you are in Groningen or Caen or somewhere, I think that's a pretty appealing pitch.

[Hotel Tango]

Brussels is very far from a very large market unless one's trade is dog poo!

:ok: :) Fell off my stool (pardon the pun) laughing at that one.

HT (Born in Brussels).

[virginblue]

Five of the six destinations have no competing London link and Antwerp just 200seats per day to LCY. So if there is demand for London, people will use the SEN flights. With the exception of ANR, they really have no alternative - no other carrier and no nearby airport with a London link.

I wish Stobart the best of luck. The big question really is how the strategy to serve regional airports with no London link leaves room for future expansion. The number of regional airports that are too small to attract a larger operation but big enough to sustain a daily ATR72 flight to London - and near enough to be served by a turboprop - is rather limited in my book.

[Pain in the R's]

FLY DIRECT TO LONDON

Fly direct to the North Sea would be more accurate

[Barling Magna]

You're thinking of Dogger Bank International aren't you.....?

[southender]

Is this a re-incarnation from Southend's past.

I don't know the background of Andy Green but wasn't Mike Sessions involved with British World and/or Flightline?

Anyway, best of luck to them and let's hope they are successful.

Regards

Southender

[SENChris]

Thomson website shows that next year's weekly flights to Palma will again be operated by Volotea. It looks like an extended season next year, starting on 23rd May and finishing 26th September.

[tws123]

The start dates are the same weekend in 2014 (Sat 24th May) as 2015 (Sat 23rd May). This years flights run through until October 18th, but October 2015 holidays are not on sale yet (only up to September 26th). When they are, we will know if it is a shorter operating period or not.

[SENChris]

Yes, I was wrong. Southend website shows flights starting in July 2014 as opposed to May though :confused:

[tws123]

Thomson


Strange... there always seems to be some confusion about the start dates :confused:

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

tws 123 said 'Thomson Strange... there always seems to be some confusion about the start dates'

I wouldn't give too much credence to what the airport web-site has to say.

[tws123]

The one place you would expect to find the correct information and instead there are numerous mistakes or its just not kept up to date! :ugh:

[tayair6]

Thomson and First Choice to launch 29 new route most of regional Airports for Summer 2015. None for Southend. 😞

[LGS6753]

From Just4airlines:

Jota Aviation, the independently owned specialist UK air charter and management company, is preparing to mark its fourth birthday with the arrival of a British Aerospace 146-200 regional jet. The London Southend based charter company, expects to receive an A licence imminently from the UK Civil Aviation Authority so that it can fulfill ad hoc charter, ACMI and lease assignments for corporate businesses and Europe’s regional airlines. It expects to be operational in May.

The aircraft, to be re-registered G-SMLA, is currently undergoing a significant interior refurbishment at Manston Kent International Airport by British company Av Man Engineering. The 146 will be configured with 95 seats and will have an option to turn the centre seat of each treble seat row into a table. It also plans to offer a quick conversion to a fully dedicated business class with up to 54 seats to further widen the appeal. Experienced flight and cabin crew have been recruited, while maintenance support has also been agreed with AvMan Engineering, at Manston.

The aircraft will complement Jota Aviation’s established charter business which is focused on its fleet of four Beechcraft King Airs. Jota is the largest operator of the King Air 90 family in Europe, with aircraft deployed on cargo and passenger flights from London Southend, Liverpool and Leeds Bradford Airports. Jota Aviation won a strong endorsement from its industry peers last October when industry members of the Baltic Air Charter Association (BACA) voted it Best Cargo Operator in the annual 2013 BACA industry awards. Jota was also short listed in the Best General Aviation category.

Jota Aviation’s BAe 146 will be London City Airport capable

“Now is the right time to expand our offering and move into the regional jet sector,” believes Jota Aviation Managing Director Andy Green. “Other charter companies have recently exited the BAe 146 sector in Europe, meaning there is significantly reduced availability for a generous sized cabin aircraft with rugged performance and short field landing characteristics. “Our aircraft will be London City Airport capable too, making it more attractive for sub charters,” he suggests.

In support of its expansion into the jet sector, Jota Aviation has enlisted the expertise of regional airline specialist Mike Sessions. Mike, a popular figure in the airline fraternity, previously served with British World Airlines as Sales and Commercial Director. He has a 37- year career in aviation, starting out with BWA’s predecessor British Air Ferries in 1977 as a sales executive. Since 2002 Mike has been running his own consultancy Blue Sky Aviation, advising start-up airlines on leasing options, charter brokerage, inclusive tour and airline strategy.

[dc9-32]

I personally wish Jota the very best of luck with the 146 project.


One small observation - maybe get the aircraft out of MSE sooner rather than later !

[asdf1234]

Airport washing de-icer into brook (From Echo) (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/NEWS/11192160.Airport_washing_de_icer_into_brook/)

[mikkie4]

More sh&t stering from the tree huggers

[LTNman]

Because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it should be ignored. The waste contains high levels of toxics and causes fish kill and other environmental degradation. This just adds to Southend-on-Sea’s pollution woes. With the town’s beach being at serious risk of being blacklisted next year as being unsafe for swimming under new EEC laws the town needs to clean up its act. It isn’t just turds on the beach that constitutes pollution and with Stobart just dumping its waste to save money Stobart needs to be condemned.

[mart901]

Seeing as the environment agency have permitted it for 2 years, if someone should be condemned shouldn't it be them?

[SWBKCB]

“As part of an agreed trial with the Environment Agency, Southend Airport has been carrying out these procedures for the past two winters. Extensive ecological monitoring has been taking place during this period, and the Environment Agency reports little or no impact on water courses and wildlife.”

If the government agency charged with controlling pollution has approved and is monitoring, don't see why Stobart's should be condemned. :=

[Expressflight]

LTNman

Actually I did a study of runway de-icer 'disposal' three years ago because the problem at SEN was not as simple as "Stobart just dumping its waste to save money" as you so breezily put it.

Just to clarify, the waste in question is the normal runway surface drainage run-off which will, at times in winter, contain elements of de-icer fluid residues. It was possible to find de-icer fluids which rapidly bio-degraded and did not cause a hazard to fish and the like; it certainly is not the case that it "contains high levels of toxics(sic) and causes fish kill...". That is precisely the reason why the Environment Agency approved the two year trial which they say "reports little or no impact on watercourses or wildlife."

Funny how the facts are never as exciting as the headline isn't it?

[tophat27dt]

The local press love to overkill and exaggerate in an attempt to get reactions from their readers. It's another boring subject that I prefer we don't start a prolonged debate about. Let's talk about airlines and aircraft.:ok:

[Barling Magna]

Provisional statistics show 100,224 passengers passing through SEN in April. That represents a 48.3% increase over April 2013. Easter was partly in March last year, of course, but the March 2014 figure was also over 30% higher than 12 months previously. There's a year-on-year total of 1,053,713.......

Let's hope that the flyBE and Stobart Air (former RE) routes provide another boost this summer.

[SEN Observer]

Hello - I am a new poster but have been following this site for a couple of years or so. Have been a supporter of SEN since moving to the area from London in 1968. At that time I was just over half a mile from the end of 06/24 with noisy beasts like Carvairs, Bristol Freighters, BAC 111s and Caravelles. Today's nimbys don't know what noise is!!

Seems that the Flybe routes are being advertised but not where I would expect them to be. I travelled on a First Capital Connect train this morning from City Thameslink to Mill Hill Broadway and the new routes (including Newquay but not up to date enough for Maastricht) were displayed on a Flybe/SEN advert on the train. I was surprised to see it there as these trains serve both Gatwick and Luton.

Hopefully they are being advertised widely on the continent and the success deserved will be achieved.

Good luck SEN and Stobart; you deserve it.

[Barling Magna]

Welcome SEN Observer. I was born and raised in Barling and can recall the Dakotas, Vikings, C-46, Hermes, Argonauts and Elizabethans turning finals over my home. It is tremendous to see this once great airport rise again - although these are very different days. We need some reputable foreign airlines to start using SEN now.....

[Expressflight]

SEN Observer

Perhaps the fact that the First Capital Connect train line serves LGW and LTN is the very reason that the new Flybe routes are advertised there. None of the new SEN European routes are served from either airport so maybe that is a good audience to speak to.

The April provisional stats are quite impressive, particularly the AMS route where nearly 63% year-on-year growth certainly seems to fully justify the addition of the third daily rotation.

[Barling Magna]

The Edinburgh figures show a load figure of around 83 pax per flight. No good for an A319, but an E190, F100 or a CS100 would fit the bill rather nicely.....

[Cyrano]

The Edinburgh figures show a load figure of around 83 pax per flight. No good for an A319, but an E190, F100 or a CS100 would fit the bill rather nicely.....

...except that to break even on an E190, those passengers would have to be paying higher fares than they paid on the A319, and if the average fare were higher, there would be fewer passengers. I'm not saying it couldn't work on a smaller aircraft, just that you can't take the number of passengers and assume that it would be the same on a smaller aircraft.

This came up a few months ago in a different context and this (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/198333-loganair-16.html#post8012688) is what I wrote then.

[SEN Observer]

You are of course correct. Not being fully aware of what destinations are available from LGW and LTN, I posted without doing my homework first! It's obviously a good move on the part of Stobart/Flybe and I shall be more careful in future!

[Barling Magna]

Yes, indeed. That's quite straightforward; I'd read your earlier post and didn't feel it needed saying in this context since it was obvious. No reason why it can't work with higher fares though (they are only £30 or so at the moment), and a route which has been operating for less than a year having an average LF of 83 should surely be attractive to some operator - better timings would help; currently the weekday flights leave SEN at 1935 and leave EDI at 2115. With Royal Bank of Scotland having a large presence in Southend you might expect an early morning departure and mid-evening arrival to attract business traffic. Although those are the most popular timings, of course, SEN-EDI would surely be profitable given a fair chance......

[Expressflight]

One of the difficulties of reviving EDI when easyJet come off the route next month is finding an airline in a position to operate it effectively. As has been said it needs an early morning departure from either EDI or SEN with a second rotation in the evening. Effectively that means using an aircraft based at either EDI or SEN and then utilising that aircraft elsewhere during the day from either airport.

I understand that Cityjet are not interested and Flybe won't want to dilute their upcoming LCY-EDI service so perhaps someone can suggest an airline, with the right size aircraft, which may be suitable. I'm sure SEN are looking hard to find one.

[Barling Magna]

Yes, difficult. No obvious candidates if CityJet aren't interested. Maybe Jota could purchase an F100? Or Stobart Air, maybe....? Or maybe BMI Regional could run an EMB145 throughout the day to EDI and..... er .... somewhere else....

I know.

I'll get my coat......

[mikkie4]

Adverts in tonights LONDON EVENING STANDARD,also posters on trains about FLYBEs new routes from SEN

[tws123]

The airport has been advertising the new routes on LBC radio, plus adverts have been appearing in foreign newspapers. Flybe were also promoting the Newquay route today outside Liverpool Street Station.

[cornishsimon]

NQY-SEN restarts tomorrow I do believe. This time with BE on the NQY based aircraft.




cs

[LTNman]

So how is Southend doing in the Biz Jet market?

I found this but but it seems to be a rubbish story.

The flight paths of London?s little airports - London Life - Life & Style - London Evening Standard (http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/the-flight-paths-of-londons-little-airports-9267138.html)

THE ONLY WAY IS SOUTHEND

The one thing the Private Jet community agree about this Essex airport is: “It’s really cheap.” This airport is for private jet passengers “who’ve not paid for it themselves”, says one Mayfair dweller who only flies Gulfstream. “It’s for Z-list celebrities who’ve managed to squeeze the right to fly by private jet into their promo contract, and the advertising company wants to make sure it’s as cheap as possible.”

Look out for a froth of soap stars and once-decent footballers. The terminal, adds our frequent flier, is “slightly better than a nice waiting room but not much”.

Stobart Group, the company famous for its lorries, bought Southend airport in 2008; now it’s taking the Sports Direct and Tesco approach to private flights: pile ’em high, flog slots cheap.

Flying down to Nice would cost £10,000 from London City and about £8,000 from Northholt or Farnborough, but you might get a flight for £5,000 from Southend. “You might have to accept that your plane’s not going to turn up until 30 minutes before you depart, though — it’s the Ryanair of the PJ world,” says Twidell.

[willy wombat]

The best that you can say about that article is that it is a load of tosh.

[tophat27dt]

Does anybody know the loads for todays' first NQY-SEN-NQY flights?

[8674planes]

I think there were 73 on the outbound.

[cornishsimon]

75
Not too shabby at all on a 78 seat q400 !
cs

[GROUNDHOG]

If that load is correct and they are all revenue passengers that is staggeringly good!

[8674planes]

This is only the first flight though. I wonder in a couple of weeks time the load factor will be the same?

[brian_dromey]

I suppose the problem with EDI and Belfast is that there is neither an obvious brand for RE to operate under or other airline to enter the routes. flyBe clearly have no interest in allowing their brand to be used on domestic routes in competition with their new LCY routes. RE could use the Aer Lingus brand to BHD, but it wouldn't make much sense to EDI, which is presumably why they have franchised with BE in the first place.

[cornishsimon]

That 75 will be lots of press and pr people and it won't be sustained at those sorts of numbers.

But even still it's a nice route to have available and demand was proven by U2 last year just a shame not sufficient demand to fill the airbus.

Good luck to flybe with the route.


cs

[sxflyer]

I don't buy that lots of those 75 were press/PR. A few perhaps from local rags but not many.

The problem last year wasn't the numbers flying at the weekend, it was filling the weekday services. But nevertheless, today's numbers bode well.

[Expressflight]

I agree that there will not have been many Press or PR people among those pax numbers.

It isn't a ground-breaking new route, but a return of a seasonal summer service, so it's not that surprising that loads were good on its first Saturday of operation. Still a very good start to Flybe's return to SEN after a number of years.

[EssexMan61]

Jolly good to see that - according to the Flybe website - the Southend - Newquay flight this Saturday (24 May) is a sell-out. True - it is a Bank Holiday weekend - but still a very fine start.

[tophat27dt]

it is indeed a fine start for the NQY service. I am sure the Dash8 will have good loads. Anybody know how it was today?

[serko]

From Stobart presentation

In addition we are considering options for an early and late rail
service from London

[Expressflight]

Could one not reasonably assume that they have been "considering options" in that regard for the past two years?

If options actually exist I'm rather surprised that they haven't been implemented by now.

[serko]

Maybe the airport has to guarantee a certain amount of passengers before it goes ahead and wasn't in a position to do so before.

[EssexMan61]

According to a new item on the London Southend Airport website almost 10,000 advance tickets have been sold on the new Flybe routes thus far. Sounds quite encouraging?

[mikkie4]

THOMSON/FIRST CHOICE start their summer service to PALMA MALLORCA on the 24th MAY using VOLOTEA airlines again:D:D:D

[insuindi]

On the first weekend of June SEN-FMO is available for less than £40 RETURN. Following weekends around £60. Not sure whether that's an encouraging sign re Load/Yield, but if in the SEN area and free in June, worthwhile to take a trip to Muenster! Pictures of Muenster: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=muenster&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=mXSDU6zIIpPy7AbklIGwDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1920&bih=979

[davidjohnson6]

As of 26 May, heavy discounting appears to apply to just the first few days on new routes at SEN (ie 05 June to 08 June). After this very brief period, prices seem to become a little more conventional. I accept that this is just an observation at a single moment in time and doesn't reflect broader pricing policy

[mudcity]

Any clue as to whether the DUB is suspended for the winter -trying to book a New York via Dublin on December and no flights bookable
Other uk dep points have deps avail -is the intention not to operate this winter ??

[EssexMan61]

Good Lord - as someone who has used the Southend-Dublin service several times can it be true that there will be no Winter service. That would truly be a disaster. Surely it cannot be true????

[LTNman]

Why can't it be true?

[Expressflight]

I would have thought it unlikely in the extreme that they will not operate SEN-DUB this winter. They are certainly doing themselves no favours by delaying its release though.

[tophat27dt]

Maybe there is a problem between the agreement with Stobart Air/Aer Arran and Aer Lingus? Dublin is not a seasonal beach resort. It is an interesting city busy with tourist and business people all the year round. Perhaps the new schedule will be announced once the early and late trains at SEN get sorted out.

[Expressflight]

I do have a small insight into the situation which leads me to believe that the route will certainly continue through the winter and that the schedule will appear in due course.

[tws123]

Also it appears that EI-REM and EI-REL will be the Flybe/Stobart Air aircraft both ATR72-500s not 600s. Presumably they will be painted into Flybe colours(?)

Link: Stobart Air to base two ATR72-500s out of Southend for Flybe. ops - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/28319-stobart-air-to-base-two-atr72-500s-out-of-southend-for-flybe-ops)

[Nextprop]

Yes they will be repainted. EI-REL is currently being done in Dublin.

[sxflyer]

I thought winter flights were on sale previously, perhaps I dreamt that.

I saw pax numbers for April were substantially increased on last year, and all flights now seem to be operated by the 72

[SENChris]

I haven't been following the passenger figures but could we be heading for the long rumoured 4th daily flight (on the days where there are currently 3 flights), or even an up-gauge to an A319 on Aer Lingus mainline?

[tophat27dt]

Dream on.....>Stobarts dont have A319s

[SENChris]

That's why I said Aer Lingus mainline. More likely would be additional rotations on an ATR I would have thought though.

[Cyrano]

I haven't been following the passenger figures but could we be heading for the long rumoured 4th daily flight (on the days where there are currently 3 flights), or even an up-gauge to an A319 on Aer Lingus mainline?

Upgauge to an A319? You're having a laugh, surely?

The DUB-SEN route is a great deal more important to Stobart than to Aer Lingus. I'd imagine that Stobart is happy to underwrite the route, but why would Aer Lingus increase capacity at their own risk? The only real interest for Aer Lingus is the potential US connecting passengers, and they can get those with the existing ATR service at someone else's commercial risk, thanks very much.

Here's a quick experiment. Say I want to fly from Dublin to London on Aer Lingus next Tuesday morning (just after the long weekend, so a reasonably busy day for business travel).

Some one-way prices for you, courtesy of Google Flights just now:

Departure time from DUB One-way fare
06.40 LHR €306
07.10 LGW €236
07.40 LHR €306
08.50 LHR €306
09.00 LGW €206
09.10 SEN €30 (yes, thirty euros. This is not a typo.)
09.50 LHR €306

If Aer Lingus offered sightseeing flights around Dublin I think they'd achieve a better yield than that. The fact that the DUB-SEN flight is on sale at €30 implies either that loads are dreadfully low or that the revenue management is totally screwed up, and neither of those is an encouraging foundation for a switch to a larger aircraft.

I know that's only one morning (though the evening flight is €30 too!) but it's hardly an encouraging sign. But don't worry, I think Stobart will keep writing the cheques for a while... ;)


On another note, though, I was puzzled to note when extracting the above information from Google Flights that it doesn't recognise SEN as a London airport. You ask for flights from DUB to LON (https://www.google.ie/flights/#search;f=DUB;t=LGW,LCY,LTN,LHR,STN;d=2014-06-03;r=2014-06-16;tt=o;a=EI), and it shows all the usual London airport suspects, but not SEN. I had thought the airport had resolved this issue (having SEN recognised by IATA as a London airport) some time ago.

[ifonly]

I was puzzled to note when extracting the above information from Google Flights that it doesn't recognise SEN as a London airport.

And that's why I never use Google Flights - it will only allow you to select 5 airports for the city - if you use the drop down and select more airports you will find that LONDON Southend is on there.

09.10 SEN €30 (yes, thirty euros. This is not a typo.)

And when you try to book it amazingly the fare jumps up 55.99 Euros.

[Cyrano]

I have no axe to grind for Google Flights and I agree that a five-airport limit is uniquely disadvantageous in the case of London.

Even if the DUB-SEN fare is €55.99, when the cheapest alternative Aer Lingus fare is €206, that does suggest that punters are applying a significant discount on the basis of the airport and/or for the aircraft type. Unless of course everyone books through Google Flights and doesn't know the route exists. ;)

[tophat27dt]

Stobarts have confirmed to me by email that the Dublin flights will continue, adding that because they are operated by Stobart Air/Aer Arran they are realised a little bit later than Aer Lingus flights.

[Expressflight]

ATR-72-500 EI-REL has been rolled out of the hangar at DUB resprayed in the new Flybe purple scheme. It's reported to be ferrying to SEN at the end of this week.

[EssexMan61]

Well - according to the "Destinations" section of the airport website there will be "up to 3 flights a day" to Dublin during Winter 2014/15 - so that would appear to be jolly good news. (Although I know that the website is sometimes not as up-to-date as it might be!!).

[SEN Observer]

Unfortunately the SEN website can't really be 100% trusted. It still says up to 4 flights a week to Newquay! Looking forward to the arrival of the Stobart/Flybe ATR.

[Shamrock350]

Aer Arann/Stobart Air have always released their winter schedule a little later than Aer Lingus mainline, mid-June is when most of it was firmed up last year from what I can remember.

The DUB schedule of "up to 3 flights a day" would probably be accurate and follow previous seasons, it usually drops to 2 flights a day mid week. The ATR72 is now regularly on the route as well so that increase in capacity is likely to keep the frequency unchanged for quite some time.

[tws123]

Just looking at the first inbound Groningen flight, it appears as 'Full or not enough seats' which is a promising start. Lets hope that they can make it work.


Update: Tickets are still available for this flight and not sold out - booking system error

[EssexMan61]

With reference to the earlier post by Cyrano regarding prices from DUB - SEN - I have just checked the Aer Lingus website and the cheapest prices for a flight over the next 4 days (starting today) are -


DUB - SEN - Euros 303, 213, 233, and 215,


as against DUB to the other London airports - Euros 225,239,263, and 189,


- obviously all depending on the time of day.


So - with all due respect to Cyrano - it all depends on how and when you want to look at things I think!!!!

[Cyrano]

You're right, that sounds more encouraging.

Maybe the next few days are not the best example to use (I say this in respect of the dates I chose as well!) because of the disruption caused by the strike tomorrow - the Stobart Air flights are still operating but the Aer Lingus-operated flights to LHR are disrupted.

We'd probably have to look at a longer period to get an idea of whether there's a difference in the available fares which could point to a different in yield levels.

[paul_ss1]

Muenster is indeed a fine city. My sister used to live there and as a teenage lad, I had many a trip there. Alas not by air - that luxury has arrived a mere 30 years too late.

I feel a bit of a trip to Westaphalia coming on!

[Vapor]

Quote
With reference to the earlier post by Cyrano regarding prices from DUB - SEN - I have just checked the Aer Lingus website and the cheapest prices for a flight over the next 4 days (starting today) are -
DUB - SEN - Euros 303, 213, 233, and 215,
as against DUB to the other London airports - Euros 225,239,263, and 189,
- obviously all depending on the time of day.
So - with all due respect to Cyrano - it all depends on how and when you want to look at things I think!!!!
Unquote

I think you need to look at a different period. The EI CC strike is going to skew prices for the next few days.

[mikkie4]

Looks like SEN has joined the none check of PASSPORT club(HEATHROW/GATWICK/STANSTED/LUTON ETC ETC)not a good club to belong to

[SEN Observer]

EI-REL, in full FlyBe livery, has just operated this morning's Dublin service.

[tws123]

What's strange is that they changed the titles originally from 'operated by Stobart Air' to 'operated by Aer Arann'. :confused: Anyone know why?

[LTNman]

If the airline fails Stobart can still protect the Stobart brand?

[Peter47]

easyJet are offering seats from SEN - AMS for as low as £22.49. That's £9.49 after APD. Not much to go around!

[vulcanised]

Shortly after the Stobart Air announcement a few weeks ago an ATR departing from SEN was given a Shamrock callsign and I thought that would then become the norm but it seems to have been a one off.

[Nextprop]

'Aer Arann' titles on vinyls have covered the Stobart Air branding on EI-REL. They will be removed when the official name for the airline becomes Stobart Air. I understand that change should occur next week.

[cumbrianboy]

Anyone know if the change of name is why the aer arann website has been taken off line?

[Skipness One Echo]

Looks like SEN has joined the none check of PASSPORT club(HEATHROW/GATWICK/STANSTED/LUTON ETC ETC)not a good club to belong to
What? I got my passport solemnly checked by security at NQY last week when flying to London, (has Cornwall seceded I (now wish that I had) asked! as well as the usual gate check on boarding. There was no need for the first one as embarkation controls were abolished years ago. The important check is when you arrive in the UK.

[SEN Observer]

I see from the SEN website that there is an arrival from Dublin at 19:05 today but no corresponding departure. I assume that this will be the arrival of the FlyBe ATR-72 ready to start operations tomorrow.

[tophat27dt]

the Munster flight departed 10 mins late......arrived back 35 mins late..why? slow handling in Munster?...so it screws up the whole day schedule using one aeroplane....hopefully after a few days it will settle down.

[insuindi]

I guess partly all the PR/press/media malarky of a new route would have caused some of these delays.

[tayair6]

Lufthansa D-AIRK A321-131 RECENTLY VISIT TO ATC(LASHAM) WAS CORRECT BY MY PREVIOUS COMMENT. THAT WAS SURPRISED VISIT BY MAJOR GERMAN AIRLINE.

[virginblue]

Quite a bit of media circus at the Münster end:

http://www.airportzentrale.de/flughafen-muensterosnabrueck-atr-72-von-flybe-zum-erstflug-nach-london-southend-willkommen-geheissen/33465/
FMO-London wieder im Programm: Wasserfontäne zur Begrüßung - Münstersche Zeitung (http://www.muensterschezeitung.de/staedte/greven/FMO-London-wieder-im-Programm-Wasserfontaene-zur-Begruessung;art967,2383756)

[SENChris]

Quite a bit of media circus at the Münster end:

Flughafen Münster/Osnabrück: ATR-72 von Flybe zum Erstflug nach London-Southend willkommen geheißen | airportzentrale.de (http://www.airportzentrale.de/flugha...heissen/33465/)
FMO-London wieder im Programm: Wasserfontäne zur Begrüßung - Münstersche Zeitung

Just as well because forward bookings don't look too promising on this route with the overwhelming majority of flights still available for the base price of £40.42 out / £19.35 back. It's early days yet but this one may be hampered by the fact that Dortmund Airport is so easily accessible from Münster and the surrounding area with a wider range of connections to other better known London airports.

[Barling Magna]

It's good to see some active marketing on the German side. Time will tell if Southend catches on as a London destination in German eyes; I remember a stream of Condor CV-240s and Viscounts, and LTU F-27s and F-28s flying in during the 60s bringing German tourists and students to London on day trips.....

[insuindi]

@Barling Magna: The (rather provincial) press around FMO jumps on any crumpet of news they might get from the airport, so not much "active" effort needed there.

FMO has a history of not so successful routes and airlines, with Jetisfaction & OLT Express the most widely known ones. The press was all too happy to report story after story about their plans.

[Nextprop]

It is dubious to suggest that the failures of routes from Jetisfaction and OLT Express can really be attributed principally to FMO.

I understand that the passenger numbers carried on the inaugural FMO-SEN were very respectable.

[davidjohnson6]

Every year between 2005 and 2008, Munster-Osnabruck managed between 1.54 and 1.6 million passengers - the consistency over a 4 year period suggests this was not a single good year.
In 2013, FMO managed 0.85 million passengers - ie passenger numbers are down 46 % per annum since 2008. Yes, per year - no seasonality involved. About 10 weeks ago, Cityjet dropped their London City route.

Yes I know about Air Berlin dropping FMO, but after such a decline, I'm not surprised that the local press in Munster are so keen to sing Southend's praises

[Nextprop]

Fair comment. Presumably the closure of Air Berlin base constitutes the majority of the decline. Hopefully this route will be a success for all parties. As noted previously, it would appear there is some way to go.

[cornishsimon]

Any idea how the NQY is doing with BE ?


cs

[insuindi]

@Nextprop

my post was not intended at all to make a link between FMO and airline success! Just as a fact about the FMO media environment: They jump onto anything airport related, and do so in an unreflected manner even for the most dubious ventures (Jetisfaction).

The only small point I meant to raise was: It requires no (marketing) effort to get the FMO media aboard. Very excitable lot when it comes to their airport.

[tophat27dt]

I was disappointed to see today that when I looked at the Rennes airport website, it listed all the arrivals/departures times, etc, but no mention of the Southend flight, only Flybe from SOU. On the airlines routes news it didn't mention Southend. Only when you look at the booking search area, it comes up as Southend-on-Sea and not London. If I am looking at the best "live" website for Rennes airport then Stobart/Flybe really ought to sort this out quickly. I am sure in negotiations the management of Rennes would have pushed to get a London route, but not to update their website is disgraceful.

[tophat27dt]

Rennes

Very weird....I must have looked at an old version.
Indeed, the Southend flights were shown today, and mentioned in their advertising to London.
However, the booking section, you still wont find Southend under "London Southend".:ugh:

[LTNman]

Only when you look at the booking search area, it comes up as Southend-on-Sea and not London.

They were just being honest.

[Expressflight]

Nice one LTNman.

Seriously though it's the effective marketing of these six new routes that will be crucial to their success in my view. As an example, the extensive coverage that Caen and Normandy have received in the past couple of days as a result of the D-Day 70th Anniversary commemorations needs to be carried through into the marketing campaign for that route within the UK.

tophat27dt

When I viewed the official Rennes Airport site juast now it says Londres/Southend in every reference and selecting "London, all airports" in the drop-down menu of the booking section it shows the Londres/Southend flights. It all looks fine to me.

A number of websites still don't list SEN under London airports, including TripAdvisor, and that's something the SEN commercial people ought to be continuously seeking to rectify.

[tophat27dt]

LTN man....stop it.....I know you hate SEN.

stay away.

I still couldn't find LON-SEN in the drop downs.
For now, I keep away....... I truly hope all the 6 routes prove profitable.

[LTNman]

LTN man....stop it.....I know you hate SEN.
:E:E:E:E:E:E

Light humour, no offence meant.:ouch:

[Expressflight]

tophat27dt

No, SEN isn't in the dropdown list but if you select 'London all airports' the third-party booking website shows the RNS-SEN flights. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear in my last post.

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

I contacted Rennes Airport earlier in the week regarding the poor showing on their web-site and received the following response which I considered to be promising. I also brought their attention to the fact that the Rennes routes search engine displayed the flights at a far higher cost than could be obtained on the Flybe web-site and that this would certainly not help promote the route.

Part of their reply follows:-

'We acknowledge receipt of your email and thank you.
To meet your needs and our direct flight Rennes London Southend is present on various pages of our site that homepage.
I am attaching the links you can find information about this line:
It was not actually present on the English version of our site and was added.
For information, we are working on a new website which will be online in June. It will be more readable, more complete and you will find all the necessary information on flights from Rennes.
Regarding your comments on the prices displayed on our search engine, we will inform our trading partner.

- Rennes Aéroport, tous les departs de Rennes, vols, séjours, voyages (http://www.rennes.aeroport.fr/)
- Vol pas cher au départ de Rennes ? Billet d'avion en promo. (http://www.rennes.aeroport.fr/Tous-les-vols/Promos-vols) # promo-3252
- Vol pas cher Rennes Londres - Low cost (http://www.rennes.aeroport.fr/Vols-low-cost/Vol-Rennes-Londres)
- Les actualités de l'Aéroport de Rennes, nouveautés voyages au départ de Rennes (http://www.rennes.aeroport.fr/Aeroport-pratique/Rennes-Aeroport/Actualites) # Anchor-3250
- Vols et voyages au départ de Rennes Aéroport (http://www.rennes.aeroport.fr/Tous-les-vols/Reseau-des-vols)'

So there you have it. I find it frustrating in the extreme that many of us out here appear at times to have more idea on how to proceed in these matters. Give Me Strength!

[LTNman]

At Luton the tower always want to know if a departing aircraft is intersection enabled, if it is the airport can handle more movements per hour, as less aircraft need to backtrack. I think the intersection of runway 26 gives a take-off run that is just a little longer than the runway at Southend.

Today listening to ground quite a few easyjet aircraft are not intersection enabled and require the full 2160m/ 7087ft (corrected Typo) even though the day hasn't warmed up yet. My question is does anyone know how far easyjet can fly with a full load from Southend on a hot summers day with no wind?

[Phileas Fogg]

the full 70087ft

I bet you say that to all the girls :)

[INeedTheFull90]

At LTN many crews will backtrack to avoid performing a TOGA takeoff. You may find that the aircraft will be perfectly able to use the intersection for departure however there is a reluctance to do so by crews.

[ericlday]

70087 ft that's a bl***y long runway !!!! (13.27 miles)

[Captain_Caveman]

Yesterday afternoon, two EZY departures were performance restricted. One (the FAO)fuel stopped in Nantes and the other offloaded a couple of passengers.

[Phileas Fogg]

Yesterday afternoon, two EZY departures were performance restricted. One (the FAO)fuel stopped in Nantes and the other offloaded a couple of passengers.

From SEN or from the hill in Bedfordshire?

[asdf1234]

At ISA +15c an A319-100 with CFM56's can have a max take off weight of 158,000lbs approx (if I'm reading the chart correctly) when using SEN (5,900ft?).


The fuel/pax weight combo will dictate how far you can go but as a rough guide the lower max weight variant can easily achieve 1,000nm which fits most of SEN's destinations. The Canary Islands might be a problem however on a hot day with a heavy pax load!


Maybe someone from the dispatchers forum can offer an opinion?

[SENChris]

From SEN or from the hill in Bedfordshire?

I think from SEN, at least the flight that diverted to Nantes was, according to the departures board yesterday. That's slightly concerning given that yesterday wasn't even particularly hot (23/24 degrees).

[Phileas Fogg]

asdf1234,

How much baggage was there, what were the en-route winds, head, tail or still air, did the aircraft enjoy much of a headwind performance at SEN to get it in to the air, what were the alternate forecasts like for FAO and the other place, any dodgy forecasts then the more fuel needs to be carried, so many factors.

Many a year ago 'we' were operating a B737-300 between MEL and SYD, something like a 90 minutes block time, if not less than 90 minutes ... An hour and a half in a B737, "a piece of cake" one might say ... but then the destination and then alternate after alternate after alternate all had thunderstorms forecast ... We had to offload pax just to complete a 90 minute sector on a B737-300!

[asdf1234]

Phileas, agree entirely that giving range estimates is like measuring the proverbial piece of string. However the 158,000lbs max take of weight at ISA+15 is straight from the manual. In working through the options I've taken the empty weight of a 319-100 at 90,000lbs, put in 30,000lbs of pax and luggage leaving 38,000lbs for fuel. I think that an A319 would has a max of around 40,000lbs of useable fuel so 38,000lbs represents a good fuel load. Headwinds, IFR reserves, wx avoidance and fat pax all have a detrimental effect however for most of SEN's destinations which are within the 1,000nm range I'd say that a hot day shouldn't be too much of a problem. Again, if someone who works as a dispatcher could verify the above it would help make the picture clearer.

[LTNman]

and the other offloaded a couple of passengers.

I bet they were happy :{ I have flown to Blackpool with Ryanair and they roped off the first 6 rows of seats. I wonder if easyjet sell all the seats available for the longer distance flights or just cut back on the seats sold?

[tws123]

Well this gives a bit more detail on the incident.


A plane carrying some of the TOWIE lot to Marbella was stranded as it was too heavy to take off! Yes, really! | heatworld.com (http://www.heatworld.com/Celeb-News/2014/06/A-plane-carrying-some-of-the-TOWIE-lot-to-Marbella-was-stranded-as-it-was-too-heavy-to-take-off-Yes-really-/)

[Expressflight]

Assuming the FAO flight which routed via NTE departed on time yesterday the OAT would have been 23C and the wind 250/10. I seem to remember that Second Segment Climb considerations tend to be the limiting factor for R/W 24 departures, so it was perhaps that rather than actual runway length which made a fuel stop necessary.

I think easyJet originally blocked off half a dozen seats on SEN-FAO when it commenced in 2012 but I don't know if that is still the case. There was at least one instance last year where a large number of male golfers caused payload/range problems so perhaps it was something similar this time around. Perhaps someone here knows the actual details.

I think the A320 was unrestricted to FAO when it operated numerous times during April when some 180+ pax were carried on some departures I believe.

[tophat27dt]

Only 200kgs overweight? That's two blokes these days! I doubt if the A319 got onto the runway then the captain asked 4 people to get off! It's funny how some people don't understand what's going on. LOL

[LTNman]

Isn't the final fuel figure worked out when the crew get a load sheet from the dispatcher? Wasn't it an option to carry 200kg less fuel?

[tophat27dt]

LTNman

I guess it was a cock up. Even though they unloaded 4 volunteer ladies, it still had to refuel enroute, so having 200kgs less fuel it could have taken them after all and still refuelled. Yes!

[Expressflight]

But surely this wasn't the FAO flight; they wouldn't be going to FAO to film in Marbella. Their flight would have been the AGP which departs around the same time as the second FAO on Saturday.

It's starting to look as if there may have been some sort of mistake with fuel uplifts that day.

[tophat27dt]

for the past week, Stobart Air/Flybe flights always seems to end up with 45/60 minutes delay. Either they must reschedule, or look at the handling overseas. I am a fussy passenger. 15 minutes is ok...but not almost one hour...every day..it will kill the routes.

[Tagron]

Just catching up on EZY’s operational difficulties at SEN over the weekend and it looks to me that the principal component of the situation was the use of a low MTOW A319 (64000kgs) on the FAO and AGP services.

The EZY Source | (http://www.theezysource.com/)
GINFO Database Search | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1)

The weekend weather pattern was characterised by a strong upper southerly flow due to the jetstream position, extending from southern Iberia right up to the UK. These headwinds would have significantly increased the flight time southbound and hence the fuel requirement, most likely in the order of several hundred kilos.

These two factors together would have generated a tight operational situation which might have been further exacerbated by a heavier than anticipated ZFW caused by (e.g) a high weight of checked in baggage.

Comments from anyone at easyJet ?

[Expressflight]

According to GINFO both G-EZFD (AGP) and G-EZBM (FAO) have MTOWs of 66,000kg.

Perhaps it was just strong headwinds combined with extensive thunderstorm activity forecast en route that caused the problem.

[Phileas Fogg]

Were there any thunderstorms forecast in the AGP & FAO area? Could be a bit more holding and/or alternate(s) fuel.

[tophat27dt]

There have been many en-route delays due to the large storms during the past 5 days, and some ATCC units issued Flow Control slots to all aircraft (Brussels did it yesterday afternoon) because it's very difficult for radar controllers when pilots cant fly where they should. Yes, the upper winds have been SSW 40-70 knots too.

[NickBarnes]

My sisters flight from Dubrovnik to Gatwick was delayed by 40mins due to thunderstorm activity which caused ATC restrictions

[Tagron]

One of the SEN-FAO flights on Saturday was operated by G-EZIS which is a 64T aircraft. I would have thought that was the flight that had to be planned via Nantes.

I see that it was indeed a 66T aircraft on SEN-AGP on Saturday (The 64T aircraft was the following day, my misread). If extra fuel was loaded above flight plan minimum for whatever reason it has to be based on a predicted ZFW. If the actual ZFW comes in higher and insufficient margin has been allowed, suddenly one is faced with an overload situation. It's a well known risk though I am not saying this is what happened here, because I don't know. And yes it's always possible it was simply overfuelled.

But I would have thought that even on minimum fuel the 66T MTOW could have been reached given a heavy aircraft and strong headwinds. Otherwise the implication is that the RTOW on that day was 65.8T or less. I always hope that someone will volunteer some authoritative figures so that these questions can be resolved properly !

[LTNman]

This isn't a pop at Southend-on-Sea Airport but it does appear to be an airport with cost implications that don't affect other easyjet airports serving London.

Diversions due to a Cat 1 ILS, restricted opening hours and a short narrow runway all have impacts to their Southend operation that just don't affect Easyjets other London bases.

Saying all of that, non of those same issues has had any effect on London City Airport's ability to attract business.

[tophat27dt]

LTN man

I am sure EZY looked into the limitations at London-Southend (SEN) and accepted the small risks when things are not perfect for them. Maybe they should operate the A320s instead. That seemed to perform easily to Teneriffe with 177 pax although i know it was winter.
I can remember last year a CityJet FK50 found the runway at LCY to short for his take-off to get to his destination, and flew into SEN to uplift fuel.

Swings and roundabouts, I think.

[Expressflight]

A photograph of G-EZBM lifting off from SEN was published on a Yahoo site with a caption saying it was the NTE (nee FAO) departure. That aircraft is listed as having a MTOW of 66,000kg. and I cannot vouch for the accuracy of that caption of course.

LTNman

As far as SEN (or London-Southend to quote the IATA longhand, and I assume they know) having "cost implications" for easyJet that other airports do not have, I would agree that diversions do have a cost. It's a matter of whether or not they have to bear those costs themselves, and it is fair to say that in over two years of operations at SEN easyJet diversions have been exceedingly rare events. To take LTN as a random alternative airfield, it is also not unknown for diversions to apply there especially in winter where its much higher field elevation makes that more likely. As tophat7dt says, it's probably a matter of swings and roundabouts overall.

[Barling Magna]

Now today's Malaga flight has had to take on fuel at Bordeaux.......

[LTNman]

To take LTN as a random alternative airfield, it is also not unknown for diversions to apply there especially in winter where its much higher field elevation makes that more likely

Luton used to be a nightmare when it had a Cat 1 ILS, now it is really only snow that has an impact apart from Aer Arran that was at the time Cat2

Out of interest if a delayed easyjet aircraft arrives back at say 2 in the morning does it get diverted? If it is allowed to land do passengers who have missed the last train to London get kicked out of the terminal and told to wait outside?

Now today's Malaga flight has had to take on fuel at Bordeaux.......

That's not good. A bit of a trend forming here. Did easyjet have this problem last summer or did just no one notice?

[welkyboy]

Combination of heavy loads, warm surface temps and a southerly jet stream at altitude.....

[approach24]

The IBZ flight is also delayed due 'the current weather conditions'. This has resulted in Easy offering some passengers an alternative flight via London Stansted tonight, or an alternative departure day...not good.

[Barling Magna]

The IBZ has departed now, an hour and a quarter late....

[LTNman]

The IBZ flight is also delayed due 'the current weather conditions'.

So what they are saying is its summer. All very strange that easyjet can't cope with a typical summers day.:confused:

[intortola]

From EZY ref SEN-IBZ today:
Unfortunately your flight has been delayed as the aircraft is weight restricted from Southend due to the current weather conditions. This has meant that we have unfortunately been forced on this occasion to leave some bags behind and has resulted is us needing to offer some passengers an alternative flight via London Stansted tonight or an alternative flight day to Ibiza. Our ground team will be able to assist with this and we appreciate your assistance on this. We apologise for the delay and inconvenience that this may cause.

[LTNman]

Todays inbound is now due at 23:59, One minute before the airport is due to close. What happens if it picks up a further delay?

[approach24]

SEN doesn't close at midnight, it operates 24Hrs and fire cover is maintained at normal levels if there are late running services. Last nights AGP flight didn't land until 1:30am ish due to similar delays to those of today. The earlier comment from LTNman (which seems to have been removed) about numbers on tomorrows IBZ flight was incorrect. On the Easy website the flight for tomorrow is listed as 'Sold Out'.

[tophat27dt]

The airport is open all night with full ATC staff.

[tophat27dt]

LTN man

Please go away. Your questions are so dumb.

[ericlday]

1 Aerodrome Operator H24
2 Customs and Immigration H24
3 Health and sanitation
4 AIS Briefing Office Winter: 0830-2030. Summer: 0730-1930. Thereafter unattended Briefing
System by arrangement.
5 ATS Reporting Office (ARO) Winter: 0830-2030. Summer: 0730-1930. Thereafter unattended Briefing
System by arrangement.
6 MET Briefing Office Winter: 0830-2030. Summer: 0730-1930. Thereafter unattended Briefing
System by arrangement
7 Air Traffic Service H24
See also AD 2.18.
8 Fuelling H24
9 Handling H24
10 Security H24
11 De-icing H24, by arrangement through Southend Operations, Tel: 01702-538577/
8. Up to 8 hours notice may be required at times.
12 Remarks Use of the airport between 2300 and 0630 (winter) 2200 and 0530
(summer), is subject to prior permission from ATC

[LTNman]

From the airports website

London Southend Airport Terminal Building Opening Hours:
The terminal closes 45 minutes after the last scheduled flight arrives and opens at 04:00 daily.

NB. The terminal is not open overnight. This may change should there be delayed flights.

Wonder why the terminal closes for a few hours each night seeing that it must still be staffed.

[vulcanised]

LTN man

Please go away. Your questions are so dumb.


He won't be happy unless he can see this thread closed, as he did with Southend #3.

Unless the mods do their job this time.

[LTNman]

I meant no offense to anyone but just trying to get a better understanding of Southend's operation which through enlightening and honest posts here I am getting a better picture of why events happen:ok:

Thanks to those folk that just answer my questions. I think I will retreat to Bedfordshire for a while and go into exile as I don't have a fan base here.

Please no more comments about me but just Southend and what is happening here.

[canberra97]

Do enjoy your time in exile as you won't be missed!

[Expressflight]

Just to clarify a couple of points.

1) SEN can remain open until 01:30 local to cater for delayed flights but after that will not accept them for noise regulation reasons.

2) SEN is not the only airport affected by the recent extreme Northerly Jetstream strength; Jet2 were affected on a flight from EDUI to AGP for example and I expect there were others.

3) SEN will always be prone to this sort of very rare weather problem as its runway is slightly limiting for the A319 and a RTOW will always apply rather than MTOW. That is a fact that everyone is aware off and easyJet opened a base there knowing it.

I think enough on this now don't you, unless any of these facts are thought to be inaccurate and require correction?

[panjandrum]

Small correction to your first point Expressflight: actually delayed scheduled flights may land at any time, provided they were originally scheduled to arrive before 2330.
The 0130 time is when ATC Radar coverage is available until (Procedural Approach thereafter); a higher RFF Category would need to be confirmed to be in place after midnight, plus any terminal staffing considerations.

[Tagron]

Your point 3 implies that the EZY A319 RTOW at SEN will never be above 64000kgs, this being the lowest MTOW of their fleet. I would call that a whole lot more than "slightly" limiting.

This" fact" that you say "everyone" is aware of has never once been mentioned in this forum and elsewhere when A319 take off performance at SEN has been discussed. It would be really helpful if you can provide some evidence for your statement as it would assist us in understanding what is going on.

[Barling Magna]

From another forum an EZY pilot flying from SEN states that headwinds and significant weather to go around en route are to blame, coupled with low wind speeds and higher temperatures on the deck. He took 3 hours to fly to Faro against headwinds of over 100 mph. If Runway 06 can be used the better climb performance helps, but that hasn't always been possible. At the moment the based aircraft have the lower TOW, an unfortunate result of the regular rotation of airframes.

[Expressflight]

Tagron

I'm not suggesting that "RTOW at SEN will never be above 64,000kg", but it might be that low when surface temperatures are high and surface winds are light, runway 24 is in use and strong headwinds/severe weather are forecast en-route. I think that would be exceptional though. The 64,000kg aircraft might find AGP and FAO difficult to reach in those circumstances at MTOW anyway with 156 pax which include many males/golfers (as is often the case in early June) regardless of runway length. The older airframes currently SEN-based also have higher empty weights which doesn't help.

I've certainly mentioned Second Segment Climb restrictions for runway 24 on this forum and I seem to recall that range restrictions for the A319 at times of high surface temperatures have also been discussed here in the past. I used the word "everyone" in the context of everyone commercially and operationally involved in the SEN A319 operation; not meaning everyone on this forum.

[EssexMan61]

Whatever the problems at Southend - give it to me over the competition anyday. I remember all too vividly my last arrival at Bedfordshire International Airport from Nimes- the wait for the shuttle - the trundling journey to the railway station - and the 40 minute trek into London from Bedfordshire. Aaagh!!!


And I wonder if Phileas Fogg will be on here soon telling me how he used to be a shuttle bus driver - he seems to have done everything else!!! And Phileas - I remember that the flight was "fairly" full!!!!

[Phileas Fogg]

And I wonder if Phileas Fogg will be on here soon telling me how he used to be a shuttle bus driver - he seems to have done everything else!!! And Phileas - I remember that the flight was "fairly" full!!!!

EssexMan61,

If you think I am going to jump in and defend an airfield on top of a hill above the Vauxhall Motors works in Bedfordshire then you have another thing coming!

However, and I have to laugh, besides all my other duties I am a "shuttle bus" driver, with my own resort and my resort's own vehicle, I sometimes "shuttle" guests between here on Cloud 9 to/from the island port of Dapa or the island airport of IAO.

There ya go, try me on something else :)

[Barling Magna]

OK Phileas - have you ever made love to Barbara Cassani......? GO was such a great airline.

[Phileas Fogg]

Barling Magna,

This is becoming a thread drift and I get in to enough trouble with the mods as it is. Whilst it may be amusing to you it is boring and meaningless to the majority so PLEASE stop it and move on.

[Planespeaking]

Now can we cut the bitchiness, it's like a staff meeting at St. Trinians.

Can we just accept that Southend has the potential to be a neat modern facility
With certain performance constraints imposed by its runway length.

Now please let's move on.

[tophat27dt]

Moderator speaks.

I was working so missed the latest entries. Yes, can we please move on.
I don't mind a bit of humour to prevent this forum from become an unwelcoming place to visit, but sometimes it gets silly.

Keep the news (and rumours) coming in. Thanks guys.
Southend is a great little airport.

[mrflyman]

Weight restrictions of past 3 days or so due to combination of aircraft good payload, higher block fuel due to strong headwinds, and wind on deck not allowing use of 06.

Rare "perfect" storm, which will pass when weather patterns change.

24 is RTOW limiting and can be as low as 62T so MTOW of aircraft is irrelevant.

[mikkie4]

1053.713 up 31.3% makes good reading :):):):)

[tophat27dt]

I am interested to know what the passenger loads are like on the new Munster, Rennes and Groningen routes. I see the airlines seems to have settled down by operating with minimal delays following the initial excitement of press photographs, etc.

[EssexMan61]

London Southend to Dublin has now appeared on the Flybe website and starts operating from October. Sadly it seems to be at a much reduced frequency to the current Aer Lingus Regional schedule - hopefully extra flights will be added in due course.

[SENChris]

Also, assuming this replaces as opposed to supplements the Aer Lingus Regional branded flights, I'm not sure how this would work regarding connecting onto the Aer Lingus transatlantic flights or whether that would even be offered.

The flights are showing as operated by Flybe as opposed to Stobart Air.

[Cyrano]

Also, assuming this replaces as opposed to supplements the Aer Lingus Regional branded flights, I'm not sure how this would work regarding connecting onto the Aer Lingus transatlantic flights or whether that would even be offered.


I would hazard a guess ;) that we'll see the emergence of a commercial arrangement which enables connections.

[sxflyer]

I think this is a sure sign that EIR's days are numbered at SEN, which is a shame as pax numbers have been increasing and the route now seems to be exclusively 72s.

It is interesting though for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as noted, this appears to be on BE metal rather than Stobart Air. Secondly, it is a route also to be operated from LCY which shows a willingness by BE to operate from both; many said BE at LCY killed off any hope of BE at SEN. So, it is quite feasible that EDI and possibly BHD could follow. Possibly also the PSO to Dundee, unless the rules stipulated only STN could be used.

I can also see them doing JER if EZY do call it a day at the end of the summer

[SEN Observer]

SEN website strikes again!! Thomson/First Choice showing as once a week for Winter 2014/15. Doesn't look like it from the Thomson/First Choice booking site. Wake up airport website!

[Expressflight]

As a Flybe route SEN-DUB also opens up the possibility of through connections with the six new European routes. I must say that I am very surprised at this move if it really is a total replacement for the EIR operation.

Edit: I see that their connection timetable does indeed show RNS-SEN-DUB and perhaps others may appear.

[EI-A330-300]

Flybe to take over Dublin and drop to 1 daily from winter season. Dash 8 based in SOU operating the flights.

Wonder will EIR drop or compete?

[EssexMan61]

There is an interview with Mr. Roger Clements -MD of London Southend Airport - in the print edition of todays Southend Echo newspaper. One interesting point that caught my eye - the interviewer states that three-quarters of passengers on the newly added flights last week were inbound from the European destinations.

[Barling Magna]

three-quarters of passengers on the newly added flights last week were inbound from the European destinations.

That is particularly encouraging. Let's hope it continues in similar fashion.

[tophat27dt]

I am sure Stobart Air team have looked carefully at cities/regions that have a good demand for a London connection. I hope that local people will also want to visit some of the new destinations, but of course they have a lesser demand than London. If I was a travel agent again, I would really be pushing these routes helping people who don't/can't book hotels online, with suggestions and telling them what to see there. It's easy to get some lovely big posters from the various tourist offices to stick up on the wall!

[tws123]

Would be a shame to see EIR go, as previously mentioned, with the increase in pax and the use of the larger ATR72. Plus to drop down from 3x daily to no flights at all seems like very little effort has been made to keep the connection going, not even 2 daily. Flybe start the following day (26th October) of the last current bookable flight (25th October) on the Aer Lingus website. On the other hand it is positive to see Flybe operating another route independent of Stobart Air. Maybe they can bring back WAT, BHD or EDI?


Any other airline news?

[tophat27dt]

FlyBe do say on their website that some flights are operated by their franchise partners, but somebody at SEN needs to explain why the drop in the number of daily flights. This has been a rumour for quite a while but an email to me from Stobarts at SEN a few weeks ago said that Aer Lingus would continue. Someone is either telling me porkies or isn't in the know!

[Expressflight]

It would really be very bad news if EIR does abandon the SEN-DUB route as the through booking facility to Aer Lingus' US destinations will be lost, as will the current multiple daily flights which see some 60,000 ppa fly the route. I also cannot understand why Flybe should introduce a SEN-DUB service at the same time they start their LCY-DUB route, where they will already have to work hard against the existing competition. What exactly is the rationale for SEN-DUB against that backdrop?

Of course, there has not been any announcement that EIR will quit SEN-DUB so we must wait and see.

[SENChris]

If it goes to a single daily flight it will of course be next to useless for business travellers. The time when I flew with EIR to JFK via Dublin there were a large number of business travellers on the flight, some of whom were apparently very regular passengers. I believe Flybe have stated that they see LCY as the business airport, and as Expressflight says it is puzzling that they should choose to open the route at the same time as launching from LCY.

[serko]

Could a code share be possible? With flybe operating the morning flight and stobart air/aer lingus the evening flight. With the possibility to do connecting flights on both the flybe as well as the aer lingus network.

[Expressflight]

It seems rather odd that Flybe have not yet announced the DUB-SEN route while they have done so for the DUB-INV which begins on the same day.

[Phileas Fogg]

Flybe have not yet announced the DUB-SEN route while they have done so for the DUB-INV which begins on the same day.

How do you know it begins on the same day if they haven't announced it yet? :)

[SENChris]

How do you know it begins on the same day if they haven't announced it yet? :)

It's available for booking on Flybe.com.

[Phileas Fogg]

It's available for booking on Flybe.com.

Then surely, surely, it has been announced!

[SENChris]

Then surely, surely, it has been announced!

There isn't a press release, unlike for the new Inverness route and Southampton announcements.

[EssexMan61]

It really would be jolly good if the parties involved could make an unequivocal announcement about the future of the Dublin route (and its onward transatlantic connections) so that prospective passengers (me included!!) know exactly what the score is.


The SEN website still states that the Aer Lingus Regional service will continue "up to 3 times daily" during the coming Winter but the Aer Lingus website shows that the service will cease in late October. I can find no mention at all of the new 1 x daily Flybe Dublin service on the SEN website even though this has been bookable for a couple of days now.


Come on chaps - please let us know exactly what will be on offer this Winter for us Dublin-bound people. (Hopefully someone in the know at SEN is a PPRuNe reader!!).

[Pain in the R's]

Sad news that EI have called it a day on their SEN operation especially as it has been reported that they were meant to be doing really well.

[EssexMan61]

For those interested - the aforementioned interview with London Southend MD Mr. Clements has now appeared on the Echo website.

[NickBarnes]

Was told by someone who works at Southend that EI are pulling out of Southend, of course they may be putting 2+2 together, but sad news if correct

[Expressflight]

There is an obvious fundamental difference between a route being officially announced and promoted and it just appearing as bookable on the airline's website.

As far as I know there has been no acknowledgement that "EI have called it a day on their SEN operation" and that is the very reason that so much confusion surrounds the past two days' developments.

I'm afraid expecting the SEN website/management to make an early statement on the subject is a forlorn hope if past experience is anything to go by.

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm afraid expecting the SEN website

And it seems the modern day "enthusiast" expects something, indeed everything, to appear on a website as quick as their fingers can type "Why isn't it there yet?".

I have my own "cottage" business, I'm in a fortunate position whereas I bought some software, for a mega outlay of less than 20 quid, some years ago whereas I can do my own websites and as soon as something may change in my business I can update my websites with a click of the fingers.

Alas standard, perhaps mega, industries don't do their own websites, they outsource it and it might take mails, or emails, and then some raised voices too, to get the website updated accordingly.

A fantastic quote ... "Rome wasn't built in a day" ... "Yes, but Maggie Thatcher wasn't the foreman on that job" :)

Just give SEN Airport, or whoever, time ...

[Expressflight]

It's being suggested on the Air Humberside forum that Stobart Air/Aer Lingus Regional will continue to operate the evening DUB-SEN-DUB and that through bookings over DUB to US destination will continue to be available via both the Flybe and Stobart Air services.

Edit: This also confirmed now by another source.

So I want to do a day trip to DUB from SEN this winter. How do I book this return flight? Can I book the return journey on the Flybe website (I doubt it as it's a Aer Lingus Regional service) or do I need to book two separate flights with two airlines?

[tophat27dt]

The Evening Echo (Southend's local) have a press release quoted on their website from Flybe stating that a new service SEN-DUB will commenced once a day from October 26th. It goes onto mention that Aer Lingus are reducing their flights from 16 a week in summerr , to 5 a week in winter. Pick the bones from that one!:ugh:

Both airlines will offer connections to and from the USA.

[tws123]

So therefore in winter 14/15 there are 12 weekly DUB flights (7 BE + 5 EIR). Also this promising comment from Paul Simmons: “We are of course pleased to add this destination to our services from London Southend and will be monitoring its success closely with an eye towards possible expansion.”

[SWBKCB]

And what else would you expect him to say??

I think most UK regional airports in the UK have a bucket load of quotes from BE spokesmen about "possible expansion"...

[SWBKCB]

the DUB situation does seem curious - could it be that BE/Stobart/EIR will end up operating co-operatively (code-shares etc) and the public announcement has just been badly handled (or does it just appear that way under the Pprune microscope?)

Could just be a way of shuffling around the metal operating the flights and in the end there will be no negative impact, but BE move in mysterious ways...

[NickBarnes]

Yes SWBKCB is very right, they say that at nearly every place they fly, so I wouldn't read too much into it

[EI-BUD]

What's going on here could make a lot of sense. If Flybe can add DUB to the marketing campaign for Stobart air operation , the range of destinations increases. At the same time the EI branded operation does flights to transatlantic feed. All bases covered. I'd question the level of point to point business men and though I don't have clarity on that, I think if is conceivable that the business demand is originating in SEN towards DUB. The airline did operate the route with early flights ex SEN and then ex DUB. They have access to a rich data set on the issue.

While relations between EI and BE have been fraught in the past what with the should Flybe Ireland proposal and EI elbowing in on BE's prime BHD LGW route, the concept of BE and EI codeshare is good business sense. Over Dublin BE could feed pax from no less than 5 destinations.

We can also draw an educated guess that Stobart Air Aer Lingus operation will not go head to head on BE's routes that operate to Dublin ie rule out an EI branded dub SOU route.

Be interesting if the Donegal PSO was awarded to Stobart Air on the next tendering process ...

[tophat27dt]

Anybody know why the Newquay flight was running two hours late today? I thought the weather was good over there!

[OpsSix]

It's a Q400... it went tech resulting in an aircraft swap.

[tws123]

Wonder how many claimed Flybe's 60:60 guarantee?

[Barling Magna]

821 passengers on the Newquay route from SEN in May. In total 103,337 passengers handled by SEN in May. Rolling year total is now 1,079,750 pax.

[asdf1234]

The recently released Stobart Air results make for gloomy reading. Despite pax numbers up to 1m per annum EBITDA profit is just £71,000 for the year. If they had to pay for the recent terminal extension (which cost £14m) and nothing else it would take 197 years to payback at this rate! Then there is the original cost of the airport development which is reported to be in excess of £100m. The success of the airport will be in attracting airlines that are not on a similar sweetheart deal to Easyjet. But then again, who would come in and pay full price when Easyjet are there doing it for free? Interesting times ahead.

[EssexMan61]

Jolly good to see from the latest stats that - with the increase to 3 flights daily 5 days a week - Southend came within a whisker of overtaking Stansted for Amsterdam passengers during May 2014. Indeed - Stansteds passengers for this route actually fell last month from the corresponding month last year. Shame SEN is now back to 2 flights a day - but certainly appears to suggest just how wrong people can be when saying that SEN cannot attract passengers from the airport near Bishops Stortford.

[asdf1234]

I also noticed that Stobart Group share price has nose-dived over the past few weeks (down to 130p from 150p - a drop of 13% in a very short time period). As the other divisions within the Group seem to be performing I wonder if the Stobart Air results are to blame in this lack of investor confidence?

[j636]

Asdf1234

Why are you comparing Stobart Ait (Aer Arann) to SEN terminal debit. Stobart air wont be paying it down, the airport chargers will pay it down. Personally 71,000 is good as they lost 1 or 1.5 million the year before.

Hope i have not taken your post up wrong.

[Planespeaking]

The fact that a profit was recorded at all is something. My experience of trying to encourage new operators and routes to a new facility means that heavy sweeteners have to be offered in the early years.

Stobart must have realised this and are in it for the long term, or now have a value added asset to sell on. Time will tell.