Monarch - 3
If only the CAA had chosen to lease (or been able to lease) aircraft from EU carriers, it might have been possible for a cover-up to have worked until the very last minute
I guess the whole industry will learn in future about the power of inquisitive spotters surfing FR24 and the importance of being more careful about info reaching the public domain. Airport and airline staff can be persuaded to keep quiet (by threat of losing their job if necessary) but FR24 spotters not employed in aviation behave differently.
Twenty years ago, the press would have had no idea about these plans until a press release had been issued
I guess the whole industry will learn in future about the power of inquisitive spotters surfing FR24 and the importance of being more careful about info reaching the public domain. Airport and airline staff can be persuaded to keep quiet (by threat of losing their job if necessary) but FR24 spotters not employed in aviation behave differently.
Twenty years ago, the press would have had no idea about these plans until a press release had been issued
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I love your reference to negativity - just like the press release "there has been negative speculation about Monarch’s financial health"
Just like their twitter account last night "there is no truth in the rumours that appeared today" followed by the disclosure of emergency funding being required and crisis talks with the CAA.
Please tell me what there is to be positive about.
Better still, if the directors are so confident about the business why don't they give personal guarantees?
Just like their twitter account last night "there is no truth in the rumours that appeared today" followed by the disclosure of emergency funding being required and crisis talks with the CAA.
Please tell me what there is to be positive about.
Better still, if the directors are so confident about the business why don't they give personal guarantees?
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After their comments last night of "no truth to these rumours" followed by the release of information around crisis talks with the CAA on a Sunday night and emergency funding being required, I don't believe a word they say anymore.
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Who said it's 'emergency' funding?
They actually said we are announcing investment to fund our future growth.
jet2 made a similar statement in their recent annual report 'we have secured investment for the purchase of our new 737-800s' but i don't see people rushing to twitter speculating about a sudden demise of them.
The fact is, every company refinances from time to time, and when they make an order for new planes, they need to finance the purchase. That seems obvious to me, and nothing in Monarch's statement today gave me cause for concern.
This whole 'emergency funding' and 'of course they will say that' is just speculation and scaremongering.
They actually said we are announcing investment to fund our future growth.
jet2 made a similar statement in their recent annual report 'we have secured investment for the purchase of our new 737-800s' but i don't see people rushing to twitter speculating about a sudden demise of them.
The fact is, every company refinances from time to time, and when they make an order for new planes, they need to finance the purchase. That seems obvious to me, and nothing in Monarch's statement today gave me cause for concern.
This whole 'emergency funding' and 'of course they will say that' is just speculation and scaremongering.
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Agree re the so-called "emergency funding". They already announced they are expecting a profit of £M40 at the end of their financial year, which is in October. Not much call there for any "emergencies".
rjay259
You want to tell me where you heard this 'rumour'? I'm guessing not, but PM me.
Busy flying the line so can't promise I'll reply immediately. MON still appear to be in business.
You want to tell me where you heard this 'rumour'? I'm guessing not, but PM me.
Busy flying the line so can't promise I'll reply immediately. MON still appear to be in business.
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cumbrianboy - you must have been born yesterday with believing the funding for future growth angle!
You do not spent a Sunday night negotiating over the investment with the CAA if it's not an emergency!
Sorry to break this to you, but there's a big difference between Jet2 securing investment and Monarch "expecting to announce a significant investment"
You'd normally get the finance before you order - in your obvious world, would you sign up to buy a house and then try and get a mortgage? I'd suggest that whilst you're not concerned, the CAA are - but maybe you know better than them.
Is profit the same as cash to pay bills.
Most companies in this situation talk of we have £x million cash in bank, and a committed revolving credit facility of £ym giving us a headroom of £zm. Monarch were, as usual, silent on this detail.
Far from it. You just keep believing what you're told and it'll all be fine. there's no problem. this is just standard growing pains for a fast growing business.
Talks between the firm and the CAA, which went on late last night, are likely to be focusing on the "significant investment" that the firm says it expects to announce in the coming days.
'we have secured investment for the purchase of our new 737-800s
every company refinances from time to time, and when they make an order for new planes, they need to finance the purchase. That seems obvious to me, and nothing in Monarch's statement today gave me cause for concern.
Agree re the so-called "emergency funding". They already announced they are expecting a profit of £M40 at the end of their financial year, which is in October. Not much call there for any "emergencies".
Most companies in this situation talk of we have £x million cash in bank, and a committed revolving credit facility of £ym giving us a headroom of £zm. Monarch were, as usual, silent on this detail.
FANS...your posts are so negative that you must be salivating at the thought of 2800 staff at Monarch being made redundant!!!....you sad sad perso
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Bookings will have fallen off a cliff after today's news.
Going into winter, they won't come close to revenue or profit targets, trading will only become tighter as the competition smells blood.
We don't know what's going on, it would seem a lot of people are working hard to save Monarch. Unless a white knight benefactor with deep pockets and huge ambition steps in with substantial funding, it's hard to see how MON get through the winter trading trough.
Informed comsumers won't risk it. (It's like flyGlobespan all over again on pprune sadly)Thoughts with all concerned but someone needs to step in with a lot of cash ASAP as without good news and a masssive PR drive, they'll not get through the winter.
Suppliers will not do business with an airline that they don't expect to be trading in 30/60/90 days.
Going into winter, they won't come close to revenue or profit targets, trading will only become tighter as the competition smells blood.
We don't know what's going on, it would seem a lot of people are working hard to save Monarch. Unless a white knight benefactor with deep pockets and huge ambition steps in with substantial funding, it's hard to see how MON get through the winter trading trough.
Informed comsumers won't risk it. (It's like flyGlobespan all over again on pprune sadly)Thoughts with all concerned but someone needs to step in with a lot of cash ASAP as without good news and a masssive PR drive, they'll not get through the winter.
Suppliers will not do business with an airline that they don't expect to be trading in 30/60/90 days.
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And Duncan's horses did turn and eat each other!
I am nothing to do with Monarch, but too often I have seen gossip take things to their knees. There is a difference between gossip and rumour – rumour often leads to gossip, as it seems in this case. There is also a difference between looking for aircraft just in case, and actually having them on standby. The former costs no money. However a brown envelope may have changed hands to have lead to the UK CAA “making enquiries on aircraft availability” to create a rumour… and the gossip caries on to the scene of the… well you get my drift. Yes it doesn’t just happen in the Cameroon; well of course the south east is a very expensive place to live.
We all earn our livings from airlines, let’s get our shoulders behind commercial aviation and make it happen. Good luck guy’s – I hope it turns out ok.
I am nothing to do with Monarch, but too often I have seen gossip take things to their knees. There is a difference between gossip and rumour – rumour often leads to gossip, as it seems in this case. There is also a difference between looking for aircraft just in case, and actually having them on standby. The former costs no money. However a brown envelope may have changed hands to have lead to the UK CAA “making enquiries on aircraft availability” to create a rumour… and the gossip caries on to the scene of the… well you get my drift. Yes it doesn’t just happen in the Cameroon; well of course the south east is a very expensive place to live.
We all earn our livings from airlines, let’s get our shoulders behind commercial aviation and make it happen. Good luck guy’s – I hope it turns out ok.
Running an airline is a bit like a confidence game - you have to persuade people to give you money now in exchange for the promise of a flight in the future. While customers are confident they give you the money; when confidence goes the airline had a problem.
Thomas Cook a few years ago had a similiar problem - they managed to regain people's confidence in their finances.
Monarch right now needs to be able to demonstrate that a backer has put tens of millions of pounds into Monarch's bank account and then go through the PR media circus of a few suits shaking hands (one of which being the wealthy investor). The cash influx needs to be large so Easyjet / Ryanair / Jet2 believe that Monarch are able to fight back if necessary against a price war. If these two things happen, confidence will quickly return and everything carries on as normal.
Monarch are fortunate that now is not a critical booking season lfor holidays - things would be worse if this was happening in January. Most retail consumers have short memories of corporate events; Monarch need to get the whole thing resolved quickly but if they do then bookings will bounce back.
Thomas Cook a few years ago had a similiar problem - they managed to regain people's confidence in their finances.
Monarch right now needs to be able to demonstrate that a backer has put tens of millions of pounds into Monarch's bank account and then go through the PR media circus of a few suits shaking hands (one of which being the wealthy investor). The cash influx needs to be large so Easyjet / Ryanair / Jet2 believe that Monarch are able to fight back if necessary against a price war. If these two things happen, confidence will quickly return and everything carries on as normal.
Monarch are fortunate that now is not a critical booking season lfor holidays - things would be worse if this was happening in January. Most retail consumers have short memories of corporate events; Monarch need to get the whole thing resolved quickly but if they do then bookings will bounce back.
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The auditor`s report signed on 10 June 2016, on the published accounts of the company are qualified in respect of the company continuing to remain a "going concern", in respect of a forecast made that may result in reliance on the provision of additional facilities totalling £35 million, either from external parties or shareholders.
Perhaps a translation of this into aviation terms may be that an en route fuel stop may be needed should strong headwinds prevail.
Perhaps a translation of this into aviation terms may be that an en route fuel stop may be needed should strong headwinds prevail.
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Personally speaking, given the noise and lack of stronger statement from the company, I will not be looking to book anything with them until this saga was effectively cleared up. It's too risky.
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Monarch
Were not Thomas Cook in a similar (but not identical) situation a few years back.
I doubt many members of the general public remember that now and did not remember for long after the event.
You only have to look at some of the doom and gloom posts on here for TC.
With hopefully new investment and a discount sale to tempt the punters on price for a short time and it will all be a distant memory.
I doubt many members of the general public remember that now and did not remember for long after the event.
You only have to look at some of the doom and gloom posts on here for TC.
With hopefully new investment and a discount sale to tempt the punters on price for a short time and it will all be a distant memory.
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Going Bust?
After 50 years flying the only airline I recall ceasing business in a controlled way was BMI Baby. They announced well in advance they expected to stop flying, sold no more tickets and then made all their staff redundant paying the going rate.
All the others, how many? just locked the doors one morning
Maybe Mon have that kind of integrity maybe not.
All the others, how many? just locked the doors one morning
Maybe Mon have that kind of integrity maybe not.
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If you think that 6-8 chartered aircraft flying identical routes, at identical times, with identical flight numbers to Monarch aren't related to ZB then you're a fool.
Glad that the news I (and a lot of other people) were expecting didn't hit today. Although time will tell
Glad that the news I (and a lot of other people) were expecting didn't hit today. Although time will tell
Last edited by 750XL; 26th Sep 2016 at 19:47. Reason: typo
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On that basis 750, they absolutely think their customers are fools hence the complete denials last night from their CEO , sorry Gary from Twitter.
today, you'd be a clown to believe a word they say.
today, you'd be a clown to believe a word they say.
Personally speaking, given the noise and lack of stronger statement from the company, I will not be looking to book anything with them until this saga was effectively cleared up. It's too risky.
Good luck to them.