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Monarch - 3

Old 27th Sep 2016, 06:30
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Zebedie , that post was my take on how management treat you, certainly not my view on the employees.

I take no pleasure in what is happening and did not predict any of this so can not say I told you so.

My position is very simple:
The employees are going to work under hugely difficult circumstances . Their job is harder as people are constantly asking what's going on ( I'm talking across the whole company here as well as those on the front customer line).
The employees personal situation will be a further huge worry as well. In short, people have a mountain of stress which is exacerbated by not knowing what is really going on. Needless to say, they're getting paid no more to compensate either.

The customers are also not getting proper information, and have half understandably been asking questions on Twitter and being told it's all fine, followed by Monday's announcement that there indeed are issues. So now we're all absolutely clear that monarch will say what they want rather than what's best for the customers to know.

I then turn to your management team. They know exactly what is going and are the pilot of the ship. They don't have your stress of not knowing . Better still, if they pull off a big deal they may be able to walk off into the sunset never having to work again. Meanwhile you've been through hell and back, and are left in the hands of the next owner - whoever is £best for the current shareholders , not you and the company going forwards .

If you want to defend your bosses that's fine - I think you've got Stockholm syndrome .
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 06:43
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I would agree with you - the usual corporate claptrap promoted, often by people who have never been customer facing in their lives!

A depressing fact of most of our working lives today.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 06:43
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Originally Posted by fokker1000
rjay259

You want to tell me where you heard this 'rumour'? I'm guessing not, but PM me.

Busy flying the line so can't promise I'll reply immediately. MON still appear to be in business.
Sure was a friend asking a question, they had been told by an ATCO that they thought something odd as a/c being parked up. Plus the CAA chartering a/c with frighteningly similar flight times.
Did a quick search and saw nothing so I asked here. After all it is a "rumour" network and generally members here know more ( I state generally as we all know there are those who just like to stir).
I'm glad it's not true and they are ok, I also have friends who work there and am glad it's ok for a little while yet.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 06:45
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If you think that 6-8 chartered aircraft flying identical routes, at identical times, with identical flight numbers to Monarch aren't related to ZB then you're a fool.
I just had a quick look and found:
TFS-MAN ZB563 13:00
TFS-MAN UA2284 13:00

LPA-BHX ZB425 20:10
LPA-BHX UA2283 19:40
So where are the "identical flight numbers"?
Monarch flew yesterday's flights, United didn't. So I think that for whatever reasons, what may have been a prudent move by the CAA, this and other forums, plus so-called social media have turned it all into a "sky is falling in" moment. Good luck to Monarch.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 07:41
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To be short of cash at this time of the year is normal in this business. Most of these operations are funded by pre payments and they have unwound over the summer and the booking season proper starts again post Xmas.
The VC boys have a choice of putting more cash in or selling a part of the company. EBITDA means nothing its cash flow over next few months until bookings come in. The worry is that with all this negative press people may not book.
As for aircraft being flown in I cannot comment as to true or not but clearly a leak or two.
My view is cash will be added by Greybull. The key question is why are they short now?
Is it lack of bookings ?
A trading loss over the summer ? they deny this?
Or growth and on going aircraft costs.


As a DART holder and follower its going to be a difficult time for all. Even DART are predicting a 50% fall in profits this year with a further small fall next.


Flying with MON on Sunday so rather hoping all is ok for the excellent team they have there.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 07:50
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There's a United flight on the MAN arrivals board today, 15 minutes after a differently numbered MON flight:

ZB533 1245 Palma
UA2285 1300 Palma

Interestingly (for conspiracy folks) there is also:

TOM2285 2335 Palma

Make of that what you will! The UA aircraft slated for the flight has been sitting at Palma since first thing yesterday.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 07:53
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Thought the card companies now hold onto the cash until the booked flts actually go. They changed after getting stung by other large airline collapses.
As for Mon being short of cash. Well they knew the ATOL would be due so would have planned for it, so I suspect their was another reason for the "brinkmanship" eg a take over.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:00
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Plus the CAA chartering a/c with frighteningly similar flight times.
Do we know this for a fact (and I mean beyond the virtual world of flight trackers)?

That would mean the CAA being remarkably proactive and throwing cash at a problem that had yet to occur. I'm trying to think of an instance in the past where an airline has gone under and the CAA has ensured assets were in place down route to immediately repatriate holiday makers, etc...
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:04
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Furthermore, a schedule has been posted on A.net for the TS 332 (CGTSR) that is at AGP. First flight is tomorrow morning from AGP-MAN-PMI.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:32
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The US crew can continue to enjoy their Autumn mini break in the Balearic's as the Palma flight to Manchester has been cancelled.

Nice work if you can get it.



Hopefully they will soon be on the way home to the USA having had a waisted journey.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:33
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Gee there are a few obnoxious s***s on this thread. We are talking here about the livelihoods of some 2,500 people here directly employed by Monarch and not counting on the many thousands of people across the UK and continental Europe who would be directly involved with its demise. Some seem to relish on others misfortunes, let me tell you I was made redundant four times in my working life and it is not nice. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but can we have some serious opinions without some of you wishing that the company fails. Shame on you.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:42
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I think FANS was being ironic and taking a pop at management attitudes TBF
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:47
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Wiggy

The reports in todays press suggest that the CAA had concerns about future funding at Monarch and were workingthe weeknd to try and get it sorted out ahead of next Friday's Licence renewal.

For once someone thought ahead and called round looking at charter availability (which is where I supect the leak came from) - not sure they actually spent any cash but may have had a non-binding agreement of some sort
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:48
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I do not know if the comment from Compton is aimed at myself or not. I know all about life as a pilot who has been made redundant and spent 15 months on the dole wondering if I would ever fly for a living again and how I was going to pay my mortgage and support my family as the end of my mortgage protection insurance was imminent.

I had known that my company was going to have the contract I was employed on terminated 18 months prior to the end, unfortunately this was at the height of the last recession. All in I had nearly 3 years of stress and worry, the Monarch crew have my sympathy, I know exactly how they must feel.

I also know several flight deck crew at Monarch so consider it to be a positive sign that the rescue aircraft are sitting idle. The sooner they go home unused the better.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:49
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HH
Many thanks.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 08:53
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I have seen mention that Monarch will make 40m pounds Ebitda over the current 12 months. For those not familiar with the term, Ebitda = Earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation. It's also known colloquially as 'Earnings before the bad stuff'.
If intetest is not paid, bank lenders usually get aggressive quickly. Same goes for HMRC and tax. Failing to account for depreciation leads to accountants getting into hot water as well.

So what profit (or loss) is Monarch likely to make after all the 'bad stuff' has been paid and a dividend can be paid to the shareholders ? I realise profits that would be signed off by accountants will be less than £40m but how much less ?
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 09:58
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Well said Compton , There certainly are a few nasty specimens lurking on here .

I can think of one or two who appeared to have a real hard on over the prospect of hundreds of people losing their jobs.




.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 10:07
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This is a potentially devastating scenario for literally thousands of people. Employees, families, suppliers, job applicants, you name it, there's massive potential for life changing happenings.

So, why don't we all just take a step back, take a breath and leave the subject alone for a day or two? By then, we should all know which way this has all gone.

The doomsayers and trolls will have there day, or the optimists may be proven right.

One thing is for certain, EBITDA, cashflow, seat sales, ATOL, ownership, investment and all that stuff means nothing to a great many people right now. What really matters is payday, mortgages, kids school shoes, putting food on the table, putting fuel in the car to get to the job that they feel may be taken away from them.....

It is 11:07 hours on 27th September.

Shall we see if we can refrain from discussing this for an hour? Then maybe another hour? Then perhaps until tomorrow?
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 10:18
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There certainly are a few nasty specimens lurking on here .
Seems to me that most of the aggressive nasty comments are coming from people who are in denial about the whole situation (ZB staff/fanboys) and attacking other posters who are simply making observations.
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Old 27th Sep 2016, 10:34
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...and quite correct observations. There is no doubt Monarch were hours away from the end on Sunday night, there is no hiding from that. It's little wonder concern is evident.
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