UK to US airline move

[APjunkie]

Looking for some advice... I've scoured the internet but can't quite figure out the right answer!

I am a British Citizen with an EASA CPL/IR and an A320 type rating and am on course to have 1500 hrs/+1000 Turbofan time with a major UK airline by next Autumn. My partner is an American Citizen and moving them here isn't an option. I have a BSc (Hons) and am familiar with the visa/right to work requirements. I'm exploring all the different options for making the distance work, one of which is moving to the US and transferring to a US carrier.

My questions are:

1. Conversion to an FAA ATPL - is there any advantage in waiting until my EASA ATPL is unfrozen before converting or should I get working on the ground school/CPL/IR/ATP course now?
2. Do I actually have a chance of getting into one of the major carriers straightaway or will I have to take the regional jet step?
3. If I am offered a job, on average what is the wait time for beginning work?

If anyone has any experience doing this recently I'd really appreciate any advice you could give me. I'm trying to do everything as efficiently as possible so I don't want to make the wrong move or have false expectations.

Thanks for your help.

[Long Haul]

It isn't obvious to me why getting the right to work in the US isn't an issue for you, unless you are planning on marrying your partner, but if you say so....
If that's your plan, be aware that a spouse visa needs to be applied for from outside of the country and will take at least six months.

You will need to complete an ATP-CTP course at an approved school like ATP Flight School, which you could bang out in a week. It's 30 hours of ground school and 10 hours of sim and costs about $4,500. Then you can take the written and practical tests. Before you start the course, however, you will need the FAA to validate your foreign CPL, and you will need to apply for TSA approval to undergo flight training in the US. These are paperwork bits that take a little time. The flight schools will be able to help you with all of that and answer any questions you might have. As far as the airlines go, you might get a job at a major airline with just 1500 hours, but your problem is that they probably won't start looking at your application until you get your license and your green card, and you won't get your green card until you move there. You will be likely to get a job with a regional airline a lot faster than with a major, so you may want to apply everywhere and take the first offer that comes along, unless you are happy commuting back to your old job in the UK for awhile.

[B2N2]

Uh no need for the CPL conversion.
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp&r=PART&n=14y2.0.1.1.2#se14.2.61_1153

Read 61.153 and use your ICAO ATP.
Everybody wants to go to the Majors including many with more much more experience then you.
Minimum time to be SIC in 121 operations is 1500 hrs.
Join a Regional with a flow through program to a Major like everybody else.
It would behove you to study the applicable FAA publications that are all freely available on the FAA website.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/
When hired they'll expect you to be up to speed with how things are done in the USA as "back home we do it THIS way " gets old real quick

[button push ignored]

Two very good replied from Long Haul and B2N2, and all correct.

The word 'partner', doesn't count for anything in America.
Either they are your spouse, or you are just dating.

You have a BSc?
I have the utmost respect for some British schools of higher learning.
But on the US immigration matrix, a foreign bachelors is worth one point less that a US bachelors degree.
You may have to start looking into doing a US on-line masters program like Embry-Riddle.
Not only validate a UK bachelors, but make you stand out to the US legacy carriers.
If your BSc is one of the phony 'top up' pilot degrees, from the likes of Hendon, Kingston, Carlow, High Wycombe etc, etc.
Then your BSc, doesn't count for much, if anything in America.

If you are a graduate of CTC/L3 or CAE or FTE?
Again, that doesn't count for much, if anything in America.

You were accepted into a MPL or FPP program.
Again, that doesn't count for much, if anything in America.

America is the ultimate level playing field.

By late next year, assuming your 21.
You should be qualified to bypass the US regionals and be eligible to go straight to an A320 operator like Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant, National etc, etc.
From then on it's up to you how far you go.

[APjunkie]

Hi all,

Thank you for your responses. There's lots of unclear/out of date/contradictory information around and I've ended up tying myself up in knots trying to figure everything out so I appreciate you clearing up a few things.

Long Haul - I will take a look at the regionals and see if that route could be a better starting point. Thank you.

B2N2 - thank you for the link, that's very helpful. I've had a lot of contradicting advice on license requirements so that clears that up!

Button push - thankfully it's a real degree! I understand I'm not going to stand out in the US based solely on my flying experience but hopefully at least be able to hold my own against the other candidates.

[button push ignored]

What I don't understand is why you say you will not have 1500 hours and 1000+ A320 time until next fall.
So if you won't have a full EASA ATPL until this time next year, then you must have only just started with your carrier.
As my opinion of UK carriers is your overworked, overtaxed and underpaid.
Don't you have a massive BBVA loan and a training bond to complete?

I'm absolutely positive you can bypass the US regionals.
These are for people who just have 1000-1500 hours of Cessna time, not 1000+ hours of A320 time.
You won't be happy going there, as it's a downgrade.

If you can't immediately get a A320 job, then consider something like Atlas Air.
You could do the B-767s and then the B-747s.
National has both A320s and B-747s.
You can do this until your ready for the best that America has to offer.
You total time will be low by American standards, but 1000+ of A320 time puts you way ahead of the pack.

You are worried about holding your own among the other candidates.
America is not like Britain at all.
Your in for a treat.
You apply, you interview, they offer you a job, you go to work.

There maybe a slight problem with a British degree.
To be equivalent to a US four year bachelors, yours should be an BSc (honors) degree.

I don't think you will need to do a US ATP on your own.
Maybe you should take your ATP written exam yourself.
It's easy multi-choice route memorization.
And then do your FAA ATP with a A320 PIC type rating with your new airline.

[galaxy flyer]

If you're all civilian with a bare 1,500 hours, you won't get anywhere EXCEPT a regional assuming you get the "right to work" here. The average off the street major hire has well over 5,000 hours, 1,000 jet PIC, a four-year degree and some "outside" stuff like check airman, chief pilot, volunteer work, etc. And many of those guys aren't getting called. It's still very competitive.

GF

[button push ignored]

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer

If you're all civilian with a bare 1,500 hours, you won't get anywhere EXCEPT a regional assuming you get the "right to work" here. The average off the street major hire has well over 5,000 hours, 1,000 jet PIC, a four-year degree and some "outside" stuff like check airman, chief pilot, volunteer work, etc. And many of those guys aren't getting called. It's still very competitive.GF

Galaxy Flyer: The airlines hours you quoted are not 'The Majors', but rather 'The Legacy' carriers normal hiring minimums.
The 'bare minimums' of 1500 you talk about, are single engine flight instructor time, not first officer A320 time.
Yes, it's still very competitive, but it's nothing like what they have to do to get a job over there.

US A320 budget airlines, Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant, National etc, etc would jump at the chance to hire somebody current and qualified with 1000+ hours 'on type', even if the total time is quite low.
I'm not even including premium A320 majors like Jet Blue, or Alaska in the search.

I also offered Atlas Air, ABX, Dynamic, Kalitta, Southern, Sky Lease, Global Western etc, etc as options too.

If I were them, I wouldn't be interested in a US regional.
I think they'd be better off staying where they are, and commuting from there spouses house in the US for a year. Until their total time matched US normal requirements, if they could not find initial employment.with a budget US A320 operator.

[APjunkie]

Button push - thankfully some of the assumptions I made seem to match what you've said. I hope despite having low hours, the fact they are A320 hours will be more appealing to a recruitment team. I should have been clearer, I do have a decent BSc Hons so should satisfy the requirements.

I am considering all options, including commuting, before I make a jump to the US as it's a big decision, finances, US differences etc all weigh in. I've been around aviation a while now so know how tricky it is to get a foot in the door anywhere let alone in a foreign country. So for now getting myself set up to at least be able to apply for a job in the US seems a sensible starting point. Whether or not I'll be successful straightaway is another matter!

[button push ignored]

AP junkie. I tried to send you a private message. But your not set up to accept them yet.
I noticed that your female, and had to correct my previous post to gender neutral.

When I said that America was the ultimate level playing field. Well it's not exactly true, it heavily tilted in your favor.
Even the top airlines find it hard to have a minority in every class.

[misd-agin]

Being female reduces the resume requirements but it doesn't reduce them below a certain level.


In the U.S. the airlines typically don't care if you have a type rating on their fleet type. SW used to require it, then preferred it, now they don't care. Everyone goes through the full type rating course as a new hire. No short courses.


If you show up and think that having 1000 hrs in type, with 1500 TT, makes you more employable in the U.S. it might come across as a negative - it shows a lack of understanding what the U.S. recruiters consider competitive. MPL/PPF

I found recent resumes of pilots hired at the secondary airlines that button push ignored mentioned -


7300TT 4000T 350 TPIC ? type ratings (at least 1)
5000TT 4500T 0 TPIC ? type ratings (at least 1)
4700TT 2550 TPIC 3 types
3800TT 1800 MEL
2700TT 1300PIC 1200T current 121 FO
2500TT 1200T 100 TPIC (121 CA)


Your resume is below all of the known resumes of recent new hires. I wouldn't plan on bypassing the regionals. At 2500 TT you might consider yourself competitive for transitioning to an LCC (second tier airline). At that point you'd match the qualifications of the lowest known resume I found.


The number of less than 3000TT new hires, even at the LCC's, is fairly low in the U.S. Understand that and based your expectations on that.

The average U.S. new hire has 5000-7500TT and 3000-4000 PIC. Being female will reduce that somewhat. It will not be 1500TT because you have a 320 type rating.

[misd-agin]

Your resume is below all of the known resumes of recent new hires. I wouldn't plan on bypassing the regionals. At 2500 TT you might consider yourself competitive for transitioning to an LCC (second tier airline). At that point you'd match the qualifications of the lowest known resume I found.

Except at 2700TT he had just transitioned to the left seat. Command experience is valued.

And 'pay to fly', ad inhibito(sp?) and MPL experience is not valued highly. Most candidates in the U.S. have done at least 2 jobs, if not three, with 1500 TT. There's a value to different experiences in one's background, especially when one's resume is still shallow.

[button push ignored]

Like I said in an above post.
If you can't find work with a budget US A320 airline with 1500TT and 1000+ A320 time.
Then stick with what you've got, and commute from the UK until you've got about 2500 TT.

Then you should cast your net a little wider to include the premium majors like JetBlue, Alaska, Southwest, Virgin America etc, etc..
As she'd be good to go, just about anywhere she wanted.

She didn't come across to me, as being a negative by asking if she'd be employable with 1500TT.
Obviously she knows that 1500 is low by American standards.
Airline Pilot Central has the airlines minimum requirements.
I always say that minimums are subject to negotiation and interpretation and are merely suggestions.
Consider going to a job fair, like Las Vegas.
But use you 'fast pass' wisely.
Don't waste it on a legacy carrier if you don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting hired.

My guess is she's with EasyJet which is a quality very pro-active female pilot company that is run by a woman.
I don't see why you all think she shouldn't bypass the regionals.
I would have thought that any major airline recruiter would see that she's eligible.

The training she's likely gone through to get a job at EasyJet is not easy at all.
She's probably gone through more A320 simulator time with CTC in Southampton than us.
Their Multi-Crew Something/Jet 'something or other' program is quite spectacular.

I'm sure she'll do very well over here.
I for one would welcome her.

[misd-agin]

Here's the problem I see with her staying overseas after reaching 1500TT if her goal is to fly for a U.S. major -

Commuting from the U.K. to the U.S. for 15-18 months within no online passes?

Does her schedule have that sort of space? Like 6/6, 7/7, 14/14?

With 2500TT she will have zero U.S. flying experience, zero U.S. experience, and zero U.S. training and might be a long way from getting PIC time.

Does her British degree meet the education standards the U.S. airlines require? IDK.

She has a competitive advantage by being female. But I doubt they'll lower their minimums. Instead perhaps she'll get considered once she reaches the minimums vs. having to target achieving the average resume.

If her degree doesn't qualify for the four yr degree requirement she can go to one of AA wholly owned regional carriers. That's about a six year flow to AA.

If her degree isn't reconginzed her experience and British education credits might allow her to get s four year degree online in two to three years. If she came here next fall in three years she could have a four yr online degree, if her British degree isn't accepted, and about four thousand hours TT. By then, at most regionals, she'd probably have upgraded. With that TT, a left seat command on her resume including five hundred hrs TPIC, at tleast two types ratings, over two thousand hours U.S. experience, IMO she'd be very competitive. I just don't see how staying at her European job increases her odds. It's just more and more of doing the same flying, and outside of the U.S. with no U.S. experience.

Airline Pilot Central is where I found those resumes. I don't recall seeing any foreign pilot, with no U.S. experience, especially 121 experience, getting hired by a U.S. major. It might have happened but it's a low probability path especially for a non competitive, or barely competitive, resume.

The U.S. airlines value command experience. Even just passing the training. So for many young guys the decision is do they stay for a regional upgrade, and get one thousand hours TPIC, or do they go to an LCC and hope that experience triggers interest from a major airline. It's hotly debated but most airlines aren't saying what their key requirements are but DL has said to be highly competitive you need one thousand hrs TPIC.

[button push ignored]

A UK Bachelors of Science has a small c in it.
Just like their ATP has a L after it.
In the UK a BSc is a three year degree.
A BSc (honors) is a four year degree.
But it's not like a American four year degree where the first year is a complete and utter waste of time, effort and money.
Designed to bilk their parents out of as much money as possible.
In my opinion a UK BSc (honors) is worth more than a American BS, but my opinion counts for nothing.
In the UK, you basically study the subject that the degree is in, and nothing else.
There is no 'Basket Weaving 101'.

There is a lower level of British Universities that used to be called Polytechnics.
They are somewhere between a community college and a technical institute.
They all jumped on the education band wagon, and now call themselves Universities.
Education became just another big business.

Now, I'm certainly not an education snob.
I always encourage upward mobility for all.

US airlines do not always understand what the equivalency of what a UK to US bachelors are.
But it's my opinion that only the legacy carriers really care.
The UK does not give out 'grade point averages', and some airlines don't know how that fits into their matrix.
For the rest, it's just a tick of a box.

In my first post I recommended that people with foreign bachelors look into doing a US masters degree.
This will both validate their UK BSc and make them stand out with the legacy carriers.
Whilst I'm no fan of Embry-Riddle, their on-line masters program is top rated.

I understand what you are saying Misd-Agin.
But I've never been one for waiting my turn in line for anything.
I always forge ahead, not stopping for anything.
I was the person filling out my next application, whilst still in a new hire ground school.

As for waiting for an upgrade at a regional, or splitting for a low cost carrier.
I had a F/O from a regional strategically jumpseat last week.
He is set to upgrade early next year.
He also has an offer on a 'heavy' at a 'prime' operator.
When he told me his early work history for the our company, I walked him into the chief pilots office, and told them his story.
Suitably impressed, they told him to give him a call as soon as he 'checks out' at the regionals.
I smell an article in the company magazine brewing for this lad when he makes it.
They love that stuff.
So stay and check out first, and then split for somewhere better than a budget airline would be my advice.

I don't want to come across and being over enthusiastic.
I always try to be grounded in reality.
But I guess I'm just the eternal optimist.
And so pro-aviation, it's a sickness.
But it all really comes down to the individual and what they want.
Now I'm approaching the end of my career, I'd like to help others where I can.

But first you've got to get a 'green card'.
Now go do it.
Say "I do."

[night mission]

All the above is eyewash without a green card. You will get a job. Being female and British (the accent thing ) and having A320 time, will get you a leg up on many with comparable flight time. Good luck.

[CityWok]

I asked something regarding a degree from Australia and its equivalency in another topic http://www.pprune.org/north-america/598481-foreign-degree-australian-recognition.html

It might help a little in understanding where you stand regarding your education. The ultimate thing to do is to quickly get your education accredited by a NACES member; DL prefers Josef from what I've heard. Good luck.

[button push ignored]

Does anyone know of a non citizen, or a citizen with a foreign degree who got a job at Delta?
I believe that FedEx will not hire non citizens.
They also will not hire citizens, who have lived outside of the US in the last six years.

My observations would lead me to conclude, that these airlines aren't interested in me.
And that's perfectly alright by me.
It's their company. They can hire whom ever they chose.

But finding the right company to work for, is a two way street.
The general perception in the passenger industry is that Delta is #1, and in cargo FedEx is #1.
I say it's not, if it's not the right fit for you.
If they are not interested in me, then I'm not interested in them.

I have found the United States, it's airlines and people an incredibly warm and welcoming place.
I couldn't have asked for a more enjoyable, satisfying and rewarding career.
And for that I am eternally grateful.

In case anybody is wondering why can't I get a job as an American with British Airways.
You can.
I met one. He was with People Express until they folded. Orion Air at Gatwick was starting up, and offered him employment and work papers.
He told me that about 20 Americans were working there.
It's all a question of what you fancy the most.
For me though, America is #1.

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by APjunkie

Looking for some advice...

My partner is an American Citizen and moving them here isn't an option.

Thanks for your help.

APj,

Well, since you asked...

When you say "partner", does that represent circumstances allowing a form of marriage recognized as a legal marriage by the Perfumed Princes of the American Imperial Federal Kakistocracy ?

If so, GET !! A !! GREEN !! CARD !! That'll slay a very big dragon so you can go about the business of flying here if that's what you intend.

As for going to a "legacy" pax or freight carrier, anything is possible; it's probability that's the obstacle.

You'll likely face a stint at a US regional who'll get you an FAA ATP...at no cost to you as it should be.

You'd be SHOCKED at the qualifications of people here who can't even get an interview with the likes of UAL, AA, DL, JB, UPS, FedEx, etc. There just isn't any shortage at that level...in fact, there's apparently a surfeit.

Best of luck in your efforts. Work the system to your advantage.