Direct entry F/O in major US airlines
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
Sorry for the late answer and thanks a lot for all your inputs.
Looks like a difficult path to get to those majors.
Let's assume I have the green card, a four year degree and my FAA ATP. What kind of salary after tax I could expect? Number of days off, vac, per diem (allowances). Does that vary a lot between the majors or is it more or less standard package for all of them?
To be honest I'm not complaining about my salary eventhough I could as well get more in a European major (but they are not hiring...). As in aviation, we are not shy on sharing our salary Im soon reaching 6000€/month plus 300€ allowances. Every night in my own bed. 10 off days per month + 30 days vac per year. Pension (if stays the same) 5000 net per month and leaving package (this is the interesting part) +- 1.2M € at the age of 60. Flying the Q400 75-80h/month. Quite tiring (4 sectors per day), short turnarounds or enormous amount of duty but few block hours (around 10h duty for 5h block)
In summary, I can't complain but I doubt more and more that my company will still be there in 25years... They lack vision and are afraid to take any decision. Moreover, aviation in Europe is dead (career and money wise) except if you are willing to work for a LCC like Ryanair. Disgusting...
For info, don't tell me to go work in the UAE, I went there, took and passed the test at EK but finally refused to join the company at the end. Not sure I could have happily lived in the desert...
Voilà!
You know everything!
Looks like a difficult path to get to those majors.
Let's assume I have the green card, a four year degree and my FAA ATP. What kind of salary after tax I could expect? Number of days off, vac, per diem (allowances). Does that vary a lot between the majors or is it more or less standard package for all of them?
To be honest I'm not complaining about my salary eventhough I could as well get more in a European major (but they are not hiring...). As in aviation, we are not shy on sharing our salary Im soon reaching 6000€/month plus 300€ allowances. Every night in my own bed. 10 off days per month + 30 days vac per year. Pension (if stays the same) 5000 net per month and leaving package (this is the interesting part) +- 1.2M € at the age of 60. Flying the Q400 75-80h/month. Quite tiring (4 sectors per day), short turnarounds or enormous amount of duty but few block hours (around 10h duty for 5h block)
In summary, I can't complain but I doubt more and more that my company will still be there in 25years... They lack vision and are afraid to take any decision. Moreover, aviation in Europe is dead (career and money wise) except if you are willing to work for a LCC like Ryanair. Disgusting...
For info, don't tell me to go work in the UAE, I went there, took and passed the test at EK but finally refused to join the company at the end. Not sure I could have happily lived in the desert...
Voilà!
You know everything!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: NW of Chicago
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 1
From: Mare Nostrum
In the US, you'll see a wide range of answers to your questions. It totally depends on aircraft, base, seniority, company etc. Pay is typically hourly. At many of the majors, $6000/month is about what you would make first year. I've got a friend who is pretty senior at United and his take home pay is approximately $25,000 a month after taxes, and he gets about 15 days off per month. Depending how hard you work and how you manipulate the system, I've heard of pay figures at the majors going as high as $45,000 per month (pretax), and in one extreme case at FedEx a pilot made $94,000 (pretax) in just one month. Of course that is at the extreme end but barring a bankruptcy, it is reasonable to expect to make between $190,000-$300,000 pretax at some point in your career at a major.
At the regional level, First year pay is now around $40,000-$60,000, and at my company it is reasonable for a captain with around 5-10 years to make $100,000 (all sims are pretax, as everyone's tax situation can vary). At the top end, there are guys making $120,000-200,000. The guys making $200,000 at the regionals are work aholics and are typically involved in the training department as well and do not take many days off.
At the regional level, First year pay is now around $40,000-$60,000, and at my company it is reasonable for a captain with around 5-10 years to make $100,000 (all sims are pretax, as everyone's tax situation can vary). At the top end, there are guys making $120,000-200,000. The guys making $200,000 at the regionals are work aholics and are typically involved in the training department as well and do not take many days off.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: turkey
At United, we don't have a defined retirement plan anymore. That was taken away in bankruptcy. We do have 16% contributed into a fund annually that compounds over time. I pay over 40% income tax including city, state, federal taxes. Then there is property tax on my house and the usual taxes on merchandise. Atleast in Europe, you get a real pension when you retire if I'm not mistaken. All in all, I'm happy and can't complain. United is where I will retire so I'm not chasing any other job.
When did you get hired without a degree? If within the last 15 years then you must be former mil or have some really impressive quals
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
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From: N/A
UAL777 is unbelievable.
UAL 777 says: US airlines suck!
UAL 777 says: Stay in Europe!
I think UAL 777 should go back to Qatar.
My partner is with United, and I don't believe it's run correctly.
The whole sub UAL Vs sub CA thing is ridiculous after all these years.
But if you compare the US to any European airline.
I'd take the US over Europe every time.
I know all about disappearing A fund pensions.
But the problem is that the trade unions should have pushed for B funds to replace them.
What would you rather have, a European nanny state pension?
The 401K system is far better than anything the rest of the world has to offer.
Some US airlines do have traditional A fund pensions,
and B fund pensions,
and 401Ks,
and sick bank buy outs,
and discounted stock purchase,
and medical,
and $300 an hour pay.
No other country on the planet can compete with that.
My effective income tax rate is 21%.
UAL 777 says: US airlines suck!
UAL 777 says: Stay in Europe!
I think UAL 777 should go back to Qatar.
My partner is with United, and I don't believe it's run correctly.
The whole sub UAL Vs sub CA thing is ridiculous after all these years.
But if you compare the US to any European airline.
I'd take the US over Europe every time.
I know all about disappearing A fund pensions.
But the problem is that the trade unions should have pushed for B funds to replace them.
What would you rather have, a European nanny state pension?
The 401K system is far better than anything the rest of the world has to offer.
Some US airlines do have traditional A fund pensions,
and B fund pensions,
and 401Ks,
and sick bank buy outs,
and discounted stock purchase,
and medical,
and $300 an hour pay.
No other country on the planet can compete with that.
My effective income tax rate is 21%.
Last edited by button push ignored; 6th January 2017 at 20:34.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
Just in case anyone overseas wants to take a run at a dreadful US legacy carrier, I'll move Z B's green card info link down from that regional sticky at the top of this forum:
Pilots | OMS ? Foreign Healthcare Recruitment
Looks like a long shot but, what the heck ? Can't win if ya don't enter. ;-)))
Pilots | OMS ? Foreign Healthcare Recruitment
Looks like a long shot but, what the heck ? Can't win if ya don't enter. ;-)))
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 382
Likes: 70
From: US via Oz, Honkers & Blighty.
You MUST have US Citizenship in order to apply to a US Legacy or Cargo Carrier. The Regionals will take you with permanent residency (green card). US Citizenship can take 10 years to obtain. So, that's you flying for a regional for 10+ years.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Like Kenny said, DDMow: why don't you check your information before you state them as definite facts? That is simple not true. Legacies among other carriers require "Legal right to work in the United States" which is very different than US Citizenship. Now DoD contractor jobs like Dynamic require US Citizenship/Secret Clearance, like does FedEx (they carry US mail).
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Some US airlines do have traditional A fund pensions,
and B fund pensions,
and 401Ks,
and sick bank buy outs,
and discounted stock purchase,
and medical,
and $300 an hour pay.
No other country on the planet can compete with that.
and B fund pensions,
and 401Ks,
and sick bank buy outs,
and discounted stock purchase,
and medical,
and $300 an hour pay.
No other country on the planet can compete with that.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
From: US
"United still hires people without a 4 year degree although it's only a few. I was lucky I got hired without one in 2013"
UA published that they'd hired 3 people without college degrees amongst 1800 new hires. So it's possible but not probable.
UA published that they'd hired 3 people without college degrees amongst 1800 new hires. So it's possible but not probable.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco
Some of the guys posting here are over excited about airlines like United. Yes, it's a good company to work for but its very comparable to any large airline anywhere around the world, nothing special. Pay ranges from $85 hour as a new hire all the way up to $328 hour for senior widebody captains who have been here 25 years minimum. To be a 777 captain at UAL, one must be on property a minimum of 25-30 years. It's not like Qatar or Emirates where you become a 777 captain in 5 years. Annual salary is hourly rate times 1000 hours roughly and there is per diem and a b fund in which UAL contributes 16 percent. That's all you get. UAL 777/747/787 captains take home around the same amount net of taxes as a Qatar 777/787 captain. The only difference is that the UAL captain is 60 years old while the Qatar captain is in his/her 30's.. So who is really better off in the end?
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco
Don't know what you mean by not true. Most junior 777 CA at UAL has 25 years in the company. If you mean the 757/767 fleet, even that's 20 years for left seat. Even then you will be a reserve captain and most likely paid only monthly guarantee of 73 hours pay and per diem if you fly. Another thing I don't understand is the older employees being a positive thing in your opinion. I can understand cockpit crew being older probably means more experienced but how is having grandmas in the back working as cabin crew a positive thing? Anyhow to each his own but there are plenty of airlines around the world that offer equal or better terms and conditions in the big picture.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
INN Flight says about me. "Usually said by people who have never worked outside their own, precious country. Enjoy your bubble."
I am English. I started my career as an apprentice aircraft mechanic with British Airways in the 1970s . I had a PPL in the UK before being laid off in the early 1980s. I came to America and got my mechanic, pilot and flight engineer license. My first job was as flight engineer/mechanic in the Middle East on an executive 727. After many years of trying, I was able to get a green card for the US. I worked as mechanic on cargo DC-8s for Emery/Burlington and flew cargo Lear Jets. Finally I was able to get a flight engineer job on the cargo 727s which turned into a co-pilot job at Emery. I was then hired as a green card holder by a major US airline where I spent the better part of 28 years flying international.
I am eternally grateful to The United States of America for allowing me the privilege of being a part of this great country. And to my airline for allowing me and my family to have the best career and life possible.
Now INN Flight. What do you think of them apples?
I am English. I started my career as an apprentice aircraft mechanic with British Airways in the 1970s . I had a PPL in the UK before being laid off in the early 1980s. I came to America and got my mechanic, pilot and flight engineer license. My first job was as flight engineer/mechanic in the Middle East on an executive 727. After many years of trying, I was able to get a green card for the US. I worked as mechanic on cargo DC-8s for Emery/Burlington and flew cargo Lear Jets. Finally I was able to get a flight engineer job on the cargo 727s which turned into a co-pilot job at Emery. I was then hired as a green card holder by a major US airline where I spent the better part of 28 years flying international.
I am eternally grateful to The United States of America for allowing me the privilege of being a part of this great country. And to my airline for allowing me and my family to have the best career and life possible.
Now INN Flight. What do you think of them apples?
Last edited by button push ignored; 12th January 2017 at 17:06.