FAA commercial pilot privileges
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: asdf
FAA commercial pilot privileges
Can a Executive charter fly a cessna citation legally to the U.S from lets say... Venezuela with only two commercial pilots in the cockpit??
My guess is no, since it would be consider common carriage, right??
Therefore at least one of the pilots must be an ATp right??
Im not familiar with the ATP regs, so another question.. what is a frozen ATp? does it have the same privileges as a normal one??
Cheers.
My guess is no, since it would be consider common carriage, right??
Therefore at least one of the pilots must be an ATp right??
Im not familiar with the ATP regs, so another question.. what is a frozen ATp? does it have the same privileges as a normal one??
Cheers.
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Japan / Thailand
An ATP is only required in the US to be a commander in a scheduled airline operation. In the operation you are requiring, only a commercial certificate is required. Common carriage does not really have anything to do with it.
There is no such thing as a frozen ATP in the US. They exist mostly in Europe where the holder has a commercial certificate and has completed all of the ATPL theory exams, but does not yet meet the flight time requirements to be granted an ATPL. Once he gains the required flight time, is ATPL will become "unfrozen".
There is no such thing as a frozen ATP in the US. They exist mostly in Europe where the holder has a commercial certificate and has completed all of the ATPL theory exams, but does not yet meet the flight time requirements to be granted an ATPL. Once he gains the required flight time, is ATPL will become "unfrozen".
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Texas
It's a bit more complicated than that. Part 121 covers airlines, think schedules and big planes, Boeing and Airbus. Part 135 covers smaller planes for hire, Citation, Piper Navajo. Part 135 says (I added the bold):
135.243 Pilot in command qualifications.
(a) No certificate holder may use a person, nor may any person serve, as pilot in command in passenger-carrying operations—
(1) Of a turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter, unless that person holds an airline transport pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that airplane.
When you says charter, do you mean a company that says, "We will take you where you want to go when you want to go in our plane for XXXX dollars?" The legal term for that is "holding out." That would fall under 135 and the PIC would need an ATP with a Citation type rating under US 135 rules.
Now if you own a Citation or even a 747 you can hire pilots with just a COMM rating to fly your plane. You can take friends along or you can tell your pilots to take your friend to the US but your friend can't pay for the flight. These flights would fall under part 91 or 125 and only the COMM is required with the type rating.
All of this is for a N registered aircraft. If it's Venezuelan, their rules would apply.
135.243 Pilot in command qualifications.
(a) No certificate holder may use a person, nor may any person serve, as pilot in command in passenger-carrying operations—
(1) Of a turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter, unless that person holds an airline transport pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and, if required, an appropriate type rating for that airplane.
When you says charter, do you mean a company that says, "We will take you where you want to go when you want to go in our plane for XXXX dollars?" The legal term for that is "holding out." That would fall under 135 and the PIC would need an ATP with a Citation type rating under US 135 rules.
Now if you own a Citation or even a 747 you can hire pilots with just a COMM rating to fly your plane. You can take friends along or you can tell your pilots to take your friend to the US but your friend can't pay for the flight. These flights would fall under part 91 or 125 and only the COMM is required with the type rating.
All of this is for a N registered aircraft. If it's Venezuelan, their rules would apply.
Joined: Dec 1998
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From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
A couple of points that come to mind:
* Frozen ATPL is a non-existent licence. It's just shorthand for describing holding a CPL + IR + ATPL exam passes. Some people now include completing an MCC course but historically this wasn't included. Just like FAA & many others it doesn't just magically 'unfreeze' into a *real* ATPL. You must not only achieve the required hours and sub-totals, but also pass a recurrency, licence issue or similar flight test. No different to holding a PPL + CPL theory passes. You wouldn't describe your PPL licence as a 'Frozen CPL' would you?
* Licence privileges of the country of registration are a consideration. Some jurisdictions allow a private pilot to be paid in some private operations eg flying the owner, regardless of the aircraft type. How that would be viewed once in US airspace is also something to consider.
* Frozen ATPL is a non-existent licence. It's just shorthand for describing holding a CPL + IR + ATPL exam passes. Some people now include completing an MCC course but historically this wasn't included. Just like FAA & many others it doesn't just magically 'unfreeze' into a *real* ATPL. You must not only achieve the required hours and sub-totals, but also pass a recurrency, licence issue or similar flight test. No different to holding a PPL + CPL theory passes. You wouldn't describe your PPL licence as a 'Frozen CPL' would you?
* Licence privileges of the country of registration are a consideration. Some jurisdictions allow a private pilot to be paid in some private operations eg flying the owner, regardless of the aircraft type. How that would be viewed once in US airspace is also something to consider.
