AA Crash Jamaica
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3
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From: DR
hey guys...... Here are the two metars closest to the time of touchdown.......
MKJP 230228Z 31009KT 5000 TSRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 22/19 Q1013
MKJP 230200Z 30012KT 5000 SHRA BKN014 SCT030 BKN100 22/20 Q1013 RERA
Obviously winds where ideal for a RWY30 approach. My guess is they used RWY12 to use the ILS @ KIN.
I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
Glad everybody survived..... kudos to the AA flight crew ,Ops and ARFF crews @ Manley....
Regards
RaInZ
MKJP 230228Z 31009KT 5000 TSRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 22/19 Q1013
MKJP 230200Z 30012KT 5000 SHRA BKN014 SCT030 BKN100 22/20 Q1013 RERA
Obviously winds where ideal for a RWY30 approach. My guess is they used RWY12 to use the ILS @ KIN.
I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
Glad everybody survived..... kudos to the AA flight crew ,Ops and ARFF crews @ Manley....
Regards
RaInZ
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Euroville
I have personally seen this same aircraft land on my home airport's ILS
with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
with a 6kt tailwind and similar conditions. our runway is 8,595'.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3
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From: DR
Telstar i agree with you and nobody is getting sidetracked........... it was a simple point i made to show that they used 12 surely because of the ILS... or you think it was for another reason?
regards
RaInZ
regards
RaInZ
Last edited by RaInZ; 23rd December 2009 at 11:24. Reason: typo
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 58
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From: North America
"Engines were Removed"
The choice of words of the AA spokesman, as cited in the WSJ, certainly minimizes the violence of the crash (hopefully without fatality):
"Fort Worth-based American spokesman Tim Smith said Wednesday that 'both engines were removed or taken off the wing as it happened,' as designed to do for safety reasons."
"Fort Worth-based American spokesman Tim Smith said Wednesday that 'both engines were removed or taken off the wing as it happened,' as designed to do for safety reasons."
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 451
Likes: 2
From: USA
Well....
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble.
Not so bad:
1. Light weight and,
2. Long runway and,
3. Touchdown at proper speed and,
4. Touchdown at proper point on runway and,
5. Immediate and full braking efforts and,
6. Runway not contaminated.
Very bad:
1. One or more of the above not satisfied.....
Fly safe,
PantLoad
Not so bad:
1. Light weight and,
2. Long runway and,
3. Touchdown at proper speed and,
4. Touchdown at proper point on runway and,
5. Immediate and full braking efforts and,
6. Runway not contaminated.
Very bad:
1. One or more of the above not satisfied.....
Fly safe,
PantLoad
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 428
Likes: 8
From: Middle East
Passengers injured as American Airlines plane misses runway in Jamaica - Times Online
Better pic on the Times website. Port wingtip snapped off, fuselage rutured aft of the wing and the detached starboard engine visible in the background. A mess. There are some injured pax but no lives lost. 5th hull loss of a 737 NG.
Better pic on the Times website. Port wingtip snapped off, fuselage rutured aft of the wing and the detached starboard engine visible in the background. A mess. There are some injured pax but no lives lost. 5th hull loss of a 737 NG.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
From: Cheshire
That's a good photo. Confirms the aircraft's location as being on the grass verge between the Norman Manly highway and the beach (lets hope they don't find a car under there). This makes is approx 80m past the numbers.
Also looks like the aircraft has completed a 180 - presumably before coming off the 2-3m drop at the end of the runway, judging by the fact the tail is still co-located with the rest of the fuselage.
Starting to look like a lucky escape indeed.
Also looks like the aircraft has completed a 180 - presumably before coming off the 2-3m drop at the end of the runway, judging by the fact the tail is still co-located with the rest of the fuselage.
Starting to look like a lucky escape indeed.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
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From: TRINIDAD
I live and fly privately in Kingston. Norman Manley International is built pretty much on reclaimed land across Kingston Harbour just south of the city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Manley_International_Airport
There is a link on this page to the Google Earth map of the airport.
The day of the crash was extremely wet in Jamaica with widespread flooding. As seen from the METAR report flight AA331 landed with a tailwind on a wet runway. Aquaplaning and a tailwind landing were possible contributory causes of the run off. The passengers and crew were very lucky that the airplane stopped where it did as 5m more and they would have been in the sea. Interested to see from the news footage that the door slides did not seem to deploy.
There is a link on this page to the Google Earth map of the airport.
The day of the crash was extremely wet in Jamaica with widespread flooding. As seen from the METAR report flight AA331 landed with a tailwind on a wet runway. Aquaplaning and a tailwind landing were possible contributory causes of the run off. The passengers and crew were very lucky that the airplane stopped where it did as 5m more and they would have been in the sea. Interested to see from the news footage that the door slides did not seem to deploy.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Florida
AP video of damage to be seen here...Jamaica plane crash: American Airlines flight AA331 to Miami overshoots runway (photo, video)
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 455
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From: Euroville
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble.
No it ain't bubba. That's what we have performance charts and tables for. I've landed with 15kts tailwind on snow and the -800 is a good performer. That kind of mentality is light aircraft mentality. Fuel in the bowser, runway behind you, only taking off into wind and full power takeoffs don't apply to Performance A aircraft. They land and takeoff with tailwinds, depart from intersections and don't fill up the tanks on every flight.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 2
From: In a far better place
Well, anytime you're landing on a wet runway with a tailwind, you're asking for trouble.
A pilot (be them a simulator/microsoft operator or newbie) is asking for trouble if they continue into conditions beyond their capabilities. That's why crews have the option to hold outside the airport area until conditions improve, provided their egos don't get in the way.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,053
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From: alameda
I don't think that one should rule out tailwinds as part of the equation. I am surprised that anyone would comment about jet vs. light plane mentality... If the plane landed in accordance with known conditions and approved methods/wind speed that is ok...but if the pilots received faulty information as to the exact speed and direction of the wind, this could be an area of concern.
I would hope someone would post the gradient of the runway in question as well (slope).
I would hope P51 guy can look up the max tail wind component that American uses and verify the runway used.
The plane did break in half according to new pictures. Aft of the wing.
Lucky there was NO fire.
I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.
Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too.
I would hope someone would post the gradient of the runway in question as well (slope).
I would hope P51 guy can look up the max tail wind component that American uses and verify the runway used.
The plane did break in half according to new pictures. Aft of the wing.
Lucky there was NO fire.
I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.
Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 455
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From: Euroville
I will NEVER do a intersection TO.....
does that make me a light plane hysterical pilot?
WHY TAKE THE RISK?
does that make me a light plane hysterical pilot?
WHY TAKE THE RISK?
Back to the thread.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 2
From: In a far better place
Please recall the midway/southwest over run...18 seconds elapsed between touchdown and deployment of thrust reversers. There was a kiss of a tailwaind there too.
I wonder where the initial touchdown was along the runway? One report says the landing was very hard followed by a ''bounce'', according to passengers.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.
There are many factors in any landing to consider. Speed, correct selection of speed vs weight. Flap setting (hope someone can see it in the pictures), use of spoilers, thrust reverser use, auto brakes or manual brakes.
If the landing was ''firm'' that might be considered a good thing...but one must ask who was flying and their experience on the plane.