RHS Ezy to BA LHR switch?
 

Hello all,

I'm currently a second officer at Ezy in my second year (FO contract starting in October at 2 year mark) at approx 900 hours on type A320. I have realised I am quite confident I don't have any interest in long haul but seeing some peers moving to British Airways mainline have been stuck trying to decide if I would like to make the move. For reference I am in my 20s and as I say have no interest in sitting on a long haul flight deck and flying an approach twice a month (although I understand those that do). Staying at Loco obviously gives flexibility in base options (lovely regional bases) and being home every night which appeals especially thinking down the road when family etc will hopefully be a factor, and I am very aware the grass isn't always greener and very much am happy at easyJet. On the flipside I always hear about the infamous BA seniority list and the benefits taking advantage of my young age and (hopefully) the long time this provides to build seniority and quality of life. I'm very conscious of not just chasing a perception of a company and like I say I am very happy here so would not want to leave a good thing to regret it, but also don't want to regret not making the move 10+ years down the road. Would appreciate any experience or advice anyone has from either side of the fence. Many thanks!

It sounds like you have already weighed the pros and cons.

Have a chat with your mates/ ex-colleagues who have made the jump. I don’t know any personally who have done so and then ended up regretting it.

There is no harm in applying, doing the assessments and then making an informed decision.

EZY is a great place to work and I reckon at a regional base is one of the best gigs in the UK but it is hard work as you know.

BA short haul full time works great if you live near the M25. I hear it’s less enjoyable if you’re commuting.

Don’t completely discount Long Haul. You may not want it now but when you do get the twitch you want to be in the right place to have a dab… and if you don’t like it you can always shift back over to the 320.

Remember, those deep night AYT/SSH/HRG’s have a longer FDP than some of BA’s long haul routes!

If you’re happy there then stay. Why move and risk the most important thing in life?

In my early and late twenties I had no interest in long haul. I thought I’d be at easy for life, but after Covid and just generally getting older. The itch to try, or at least be able to try when I’m ready to, some long haul, was too strong. I left after 14 years in my mid thirties.
Agree if you have no interest in living in the south east, BA short haul will be a challenge at times. People commute from all over, by air and road, but it certainly adds cost and stress.
Another thing to consider, whilst past performance is no guarantee to future returns, your roster at easy will not get better over time, whereas BA, as you gain more seniority you’ll have more control
over when you work and what type of work you do. I enjoyed my time at easyjet, I met my wife and had a lovely secondment to Porto, but I am glad I was brave enough to leave it and go to BA, even though I’ll always be on the junior side compared to my peers from flight training.

Like you, I had no interest in longhaul when I applied for an A320 job at BA (my previous outfit were looking shaky). I ended up being offered a longhaul job and (listening to the advice on here and elsewhere), I took it as the first chance to get onto the seniority list. It was a complete eye opener (I didn't know what I didn't know) and loved every minute of the following 12 years. I headed back to the 320 for a command and enjoyed the change for another 9 years before coming full circle back to longhaul. That is the beauty of BA, there are always opportunities to move as your career and life progress.

The commute (UK) is much easier on longhaul (still a faff!) but if I hadn't jumped ship, I imagine I'd have been quite happy doing what I was doing at my previous airline (if it had kept going), doing it closer to home and remaining nonethewiser about longhaul!

You're two years in, 900 hours (just getting started in a hopefully long career) and it sounds like you're enjoying it. There's plenty of time to stay put for a bit longer and then look around (seniority takes a hit), jump in and have a look (you'll probably be able to get back, albeit not necessarily where you want to be) or stay, get a command in few years and enjoy the benefits of being closer to home. Any of those sound good to me!

Best of luck :ok:

I am also one who never in a million years wanted to do long haul. I had done four years of short haul in BA and was disheartened as I was getting way too little time off at home, and not enough time off down-route either. I decided I would try long haul and quit BA if I couldn’t stomach it. Over two decades later - I still love my job, and work/life balance. If you think you’ll miss the regular approaches, do a bit of general aviation for fun? That’s what I did.

BA certainly isn't for everyone, and if you're enjoying life in orange right now then there's an argument to be made 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. Having said that, your biggest advantage is that BA has no upfront cost, and no bond to pay back if you leave. Give it a go - if you really hate it worst case you leave and head back to Ezy in a year or two (economy permitting) and are back where you would have been anyway. Best case scenario you've joined the MSL early and will take advantage of that for the next 40 years.

If you’re in London, definitely consider it. For those in a regional base, it depends on your future plans. You could potentially have a command within five to seven years and apply for a part-time role, allowing you to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle. Of course, if you want to experience long-haul travel, we have the scheme with Virgin Atlantic. However, this isn’t guaranteed every year and falls short of British Airways’ offerings. For a family life environment, EasyJet is hard to beat, based on my career and experience with various airlines over the years, BA gets better the longer you’re there. Over the years, I’ve spoken to many people who’ve moved to British Airways and other airlines. None have admitted to regretting it, but they wouldn’t admit it even if they did I suspect. What I’ve heard is that British Airways can feel soulless compared to a regional base at EasyJet as you will fly with people you may never see from one year to the next. You’re young and the world is currently quite unstable. My advice is to prioritise job security and hold off until things settle down.

As others have stated, from people I know, the key is whether you're happy with a London base or would rather be at a regional base.

If the decision is playing on your mind, you'd be best to try for BA, get on the seniority list, get a few years under your belt and then make a final decision. You'd be in a much better place to choose having worked for both outfits. And it doesn't seem like there are many downsides to leaving EZY for a few years and then returning? Especially at relatively low hours.

If I was you though, I'd definitely hold off on making a big decision like this until the global situation settles. You don't want to be the last in at BA, that means first out...

This reminds me of the years old and lengthy "EZY v BA" thread, or something along those lines. In my opinion there simply is no comparing the career paths at any of the low cost carriers and BA. Neither in terms of finances, career satisfaction nor lifestyle.

Every now and again I see a reminder of a previous life at an ULCC and it all comes back, then I think of where I am now and by God are they different lives. I simply cannot believe that anyone would experience them both and deliberately choose the former.

I know personally of a handful who left BA over the years to go north but they are so few and did so for very specific personal reasons. It is no consensus or tidal wave, as these forums would have you believe.

I presume that you are not MPL?

Yes I am

go to BA and get LH asap to test it then a SH command straight after, if its not for you. bda321 above is so on the money. the greatest thing i can gather from your post is that youre happy and content. remember this feeling and keep it for the rest of your career!
ezy is great, but anything is great early in your career. moving to tui i had my eyes opened massively to what an airline with bells and whistles looks like.
ultimately either is a fantastic career you've earned for yourself - get out there!

Possibly the most cringe worthy post I’ve seen on here. Fly and serve and lobster claw?? Really.
please no one make a career call based on this

Pass me the bucket so I can throw up! Guess what, not everyone wants LH. Many want to be close to home and not living out of a suitcase. Seeing Cape Town for the 40th time starts to lose its appeal.

I agree about the bucket, but Cape Town never gets old.

I read the extolling of BA long haul with puzzlment too. I did it for a few years, and there was almost nothing I liked about it, and a lot which I hated. The immutable LH stuff like the boredom, desperately trying to stay awake in the endless cruise, very few landings, the gaggle drag of a dozen C/C whilst getting from plane to yet another anonymous hotel room taking for evvver when you're dog tired, wishing the hours away until report whilst knowing you have to sleep but can't, jet lag; the same salty glutinous food every day, but you eat it cos it's there and you're bored. I even caught every tropical disease and parasite going (possiblly because I liked to go hiking, and also from the beds thousands of people have slept in). It seems to attract some right egotists , and alao a large minority of the captains were utterly self absorbed - perhaps no different from elsewhere, but you have to sit with them for hours (albeit for me it was the previous generation of captains).

That said, if you're under 30, I'd still switch, just because you get slightly better control over your home life and your career destiny, and better money, perks and pension in the long run. And the option for SH (though the slog and frustration of LHR SH didn't appeal one bit either.)

Having been around a bit, including a 4 year stint flying the flag, I am now at my most content in my 20 year career. EasyJet command, regional base 15 min from home, 75% part time contract with a fixed roster (3 days a week) that involves very little weekend work. All while enjoying a total package of £160k+ (including £10k company pension contribution).

Either is a good choice at your age however if you’re anything like me, 40 year old you would thank you for staying at easyJet. 28 year old you probably won’t be too sad either if you get command and are knocking about on £200k.

I'm sorry to anyone who has read this and got the wrong impression of BA pilots, we're not all like this. Cringeworthy.

I'm ex-easyJet, flown both BA shorthaul & longhaul and I've loved every moment of it.

I'm very glad I left easyJet for BA despite missing some aspects of the eJ job, I feel the overall benefits to my life are better working for BA. I miss the credit dense working at easyJet which gave me more days off at home in the UK.

Yes you'll get paid more as a captain at easyJet in your early command years, but personally I couldn't face the inevitable monotony of flying an A320 around Europe for the rest of my flying career and I didn't want my last trip before retirement to be a max FDP baiting 4 sector day on routes I know like the back of my hand.

You're very early on at Ezy. Take some perspective from all those that been there a long while. Some will be happy. Some will regret not moving.

the being home every night is a bit of a misnomer these days. Most duty days are 8hrs+, probably a third 10hrs+. You may be home but you're not there in spirit after a while. Earlies your on the floor by the time you get home. Kate's split with 12 hrs rest and your out the door. Your 5 days on your like ships in the night with the family.

BALPA is running the smarter healthier campaign. There's a historic reason.

BA is by no means perfect. But you get far fewer 30 year olds craving part time contracts because they can't hack full time. Long term health wise personally at 20 I would say BA is the better option.

Decent coke 🤣😎

(This is a joke for the easily offended)

I know people who work for EasyJet who are extremely happy, and I know people who work for BA who are not particularly happy. It is horses for courses. I personally, have never understood how you can be happy being a pilot and not having nightstops. For me, half of my enjoyment is about being in the air, and half is about my time spent down route. During Covid, I did not miss the flying, but I sure did miss my time spent in other countries. Some people hate long haul largely because of sleep issues caused by it, but most can manage those issues and therefore love it. I have flown with many ex EasyJet pilots, but only one was unhappy with their move. (And even that one became very happy again, by moving away from long haul).

hmm it was quite tone deaf, my apologies folks, sorry for the hijack, I'll go and lurk for a while to think about what I've done. The fly to serve thing was just a fun conclusion of my opinion, nobody gives a rats **** about the company they work for, come on guys.

cylindrical, you won't have to worry that people at BA are different, they're identical to the 2 previous airlines I worked for and everybody moans just as much at all outfits - I promise.

If you're a member, someone at BALPA will happily put you in touch with a pilot at any airline you consider for a chat about what its like.

BA is currently about to vote on a new deal that will change a few things especially for SH captain pay and is undergoing improvements in almost every area. the recruitment is booming and forecast to continue up to 5500 pilots total with what seems to be a bubble of retirements coming up and most leaving early. You could move up the seniority very quickly with a swift move - this will speed up better rosters, quicker progression to your final seat of choice. EDIT - more recruitment = more training opportunities, if that's in your sites.

PS. nobody makes you wear the hat and doublebreasted jackets are optional :yuk:

It’s a very personal decision . We’re all looking for different things . For me it was about the options that a large airline like BA can open up.

It’s not just about different fleets - it’s about contract options, other career opportunities within the company etc. - heck they’re even looking at offering sabbaticals . You don’t even have to live in the U.K. if you really don’t want to.

Example, I have absolutely no interest in flying longhaul , I want to be back home every night and choose where I spend my free time and when . I could have just opted for a jet2 or easyJet life, but by joining BA I still get what I want in terms of making it a day job - but with the option of changing that or doing less flying in future if I want . That’s a nice position to be in .

That’s what tipped it for me .

Wrong part of SA 😉

I agree with this, senior SH is the best kept secret at BA. Short day trips Monday to Friday will have you at home a lot more than easyJet. I stayed on SH longer than others before moving fleets because of that; your seniority makes more impact than your fleet choice. I know there’s some weekend working changes happening which may impact that now, but once you’re top 25% you can pretty much choose your roster and what type of work you do.

So say one was to move within commutable distance of Heathrow, would the day trips really be sustainable? Obviously coming from a much smaller airport a concern would be losing significant real time at home dealing with LHR on a daily basis. I.e. is being at home most nights achievable and more importantly manageable out of mainline?

Just want to thank everyone for their insight - very much appreciated and all useful for both other's and my own decision making.

I would suggest easily achievable as FO given a significant number of FOs want trips away from
base for money, variety etc.

You would need to decide if you prefer earlies or lates . SH LHR doesn’t do middle of the night flights because of the Heathrow curfew - that really is a huge boon. You shouldn’t be flying past 11pm unless you’re late.

It’s an airline and base with seniority-based bidding, so you’ll have to be realistic about what you can achieve on day 1. At the moment and for the last couple of years, seniority progression on SH Heathrow has been meteoric . The music will stop at some point.

Once you slide across to the LHS on shorthaul things can get trickier, and you’ll be competing with a lot of other more senior folk that want to keep it as a day job.

Thanks again all. Honestly, I am leaning towards staying after carefully thinking through earnings (which I don't believe to vary significantly either way really when all is accounted for), lifestyle and the nature of the flying. I fear I am drawn too much to the idea of working for BA as a brand which is silly to base a decision off rather than perhaps a reality as to what the job would entail... nights at home, quick command, regional bases all do appeal, additionally, having recently learnt as to what a monitored approach entails, whilst I'm sure you simply get used to it, feels like I would lose some job satisfaction in the sense of a view seemingly discouraging manual flying, alternative approach types etc? It is rather frustrating as I understand this is such a personal decision and one you can never really know is right until you've made it! I will continue to ponder for the short term as I do have a little window to make the decision in. I do most appreciate everyone's input thus far and going forward, many thanks again.

The monitored approach policy is the only reason that refrains me from applying to BA. Personally, I could never get used to it; I enjoy managing the descent from TOD all the way to landing and maybe followed by a nice decrab with the winds we have experienced in the last days.

The monitored approach has its place in a LVO environment, but is it really required on modern aircraft?

If the monitored approach is the only thing stopping you… it’s not a big deal. I don’t love it but I don’t hate it. It is what it is.
BA is not the obvious choice it once was, there are pros and cons and it sounds like the original poster has given it some good thought.

If I may offer a dissenting view, as someone who has (admittedly many years ago) flown the “conventional” way but who has had the bulk of my career flying the monitored approach… it is an absolutely fantastic tool, enhances SA and mental model sharing, forces an interactive briefing style between crew members, and, in my opinion, removes a great deal of ego in trying for a “perfect” CDA, as all I really care is that I’m handed a nice stable approach at 1000ft, I’d rather you’re conservative. It isn’t a policy that can’t be tweaked when necessary (visual approaches that have to be flown from one side, for example). BA has plenty of pilots who didn’t think they could get used to the monitored approach but who have come to at least respect the benefits it brings.

At the end of the day, as a Captain on a long haul aircraft, you’ll find that the actual flying, whilst satisfying, is a fairly small part of the big picture that you’re paid to manage.

Exactly that...

drawn to the brand. I'm in a similar situation...leaving the military and have a job offer from Jet2 and BA. BA offers the stronger package and prestige but Jet2 offers home stability, a 25 min commute (compared to 2hrs for BA) and hopefully quick command as Jet2 will factorise my hours from the military.

There are a lot more "BA -isms" than the monitored approach, far too many to recount here.

I must be honest though, in deciding to apply to BA, unique BA SOPs formed 0 part of my decision making. It was as irrelevant as the choice of coffee supplier in the report centre.

I was applying to the airline, to fly the metal on the routes, the associated lifestyle, finacial benefits and dare I say staff travel and prestige. I flew my old man to the USA last week on a trip of mine in business class, for less than it costs to park at an airport these days. How many are afforded such opportunity? .. so whether it is the monitored approach, or the PM idling the thrust lever on an EFATO (against Boeing) .. just nod, pretend you think their way is the best thing since sliced pan and get on with it.

Have to say the monitored approach thing shouldn’t be a factor in your decision. Moving from a different airline to BA I wasn’t sure at first. But after a few weeks I actually prefer the monitored approach as gives you something to do
each sector.

In terms of your decision - if you are happy doing the same type of flying on the same routes for the next 30+ years then that’s your decision made. Personally I would get bored and the option to have a change every 5/6 years is a major benefit at BA

I assume you’re on the A350 then? It’s Boeing standard now just like on the Airbus. For those unaware, FOs also get control of the thrust levers during takeoff and can reject for a smaller number of reasons than the skipper.

I’ve only ever flown with BA so I’m biased but I like the monitored approach. It ensures both crew members are fully engaged each sector and makes it a team effort to get to your destination. Yes you don’t get the satisfaction of nailing every element of the PF sector but that’s hardly a deal-breaker surely?

I guess the big unknown is whether this pilot career deal gets voted through. It’s a decent place to work that’s still held back by the high living costs of the south east and IAGs vice-like grip on costs. I’d still back the company to ride out the current storm better than most airlines though!

No, B787. I know Boeing SOP is that PF retards the lever, but when I joined BA the SOP was that the PM does it. I was reminded of it being the latter at a very recent recurrent

BA SOPs didn’t play any role in my decision to join or not. That said, I’m not particularly a fan of the monitored approach or the FMA callouts. When I’m PF, I prefer to fly the entire sector, and I always found it satisfying to fly a good approach into a smooth landing myself. But it is what it is…it’s not my rule set, I just do what I’m told. :8

Boeing standard definitely is for the PF to retard the thrust lever

Does strike me as slightly strange to discount a job over something like monitored approaches.

But hey everyone has their own priorities, so if it does bother you that much then fair enough

Fake News Correction

No, it was SOP on landing and after an RTO for PM to select REVERSE, not to set the thrust levers to IDLE.

PF closed the TLs and PM selected REV.