This is just absolute nonsense? Why take the time to post it :ugh:

I echo the above posters, in that it would have zero weight in my career decisions, but monitored approaches are actually fantastic from a CRM / SA standpoint.

And just to add to the point about manual flying , BA doesn’t discourage it, but like the fuel thing , consider the variables on the day , ask the other person if they’re ok with it .

Can’t take out the Autothrust (at least on 320 fleet) so it’s not really fully “manual” flying but you can certainly do visual approaches etc. as long as you’re sensible and your colleague isn’t on sector 4 and hanging !

First of all you would need a crystal ball to see what the future will bring..when I left BA there were 4 great airlines world wide airlines -three have gone and the last one is CX.
My take is what is most important - career or family.
I went from nearly every night at home to magical mystery tours, finally sometimes 8 nights a month at home.
I had 20 years right hand seat and my last employer went from 4 years to command to 13.
BA procedures; monitored approach was introduced because many couldn’t manage the trident along with it’s analogue systems. We basically pointed the aircraft using the flight director with the captain monitoring and over riding the auto throttle, The myth was one couldn’t fly raw data with manual throttle. The VC10 did the opposite to BEA.
As to not flying a circuit with the airfield on the other side of the cockpit - what a load of rubbish. All down to training and standards.
Whilst BALPA helps there are incidents of being sold down the river by them; but they do help especially against some of the types BA got in management and training.
There is a video about how BA returns so much profit..basically by cutting everything down to seat pitch being less than Ryanair.
The old days of employees and customer service being important seem to have disappeared.

My last employer chucked enough money at us that I could afford an au pair and take my wife on trips or the whole family which helped with the time away.

I think my course mates who went to Britannia had the best career.

If you want to get satisfaction from flying than I suggest either executive jets or gliding especially in the mountains. The flying I did doesn’t exist in European airlines anymore.
Being a copilot is harder than being a captain.
One of my course mates got to top of BA seniority list..that’s a privilege.

I now live in one of the best towns in Ireland, I envy those who have lived here all of their lives - my home town has changed due to corruption and the wealthy drug dealers than moved there.

The job is what you make it.

I would say that it is best that you do not apply. Someone so protective of “their sector” and their way of doing things would not fit well in the company.

If you re-read my post you might notice i was referring to the EFATO scenario when it comes to idling the failed engine. BA SOP is for the PM to do it, entirely against Boeing (despite recent claims to have reverted to Boeing). You are speaking about the landing case which i made no reference to. You may reconsider your fake news alert ...

I mentioned it in listing another example of BA unique SOP, along with the monitored approach .. but how none of it is particularly relevant to my career choice.

That's not what he said, and you know it.

Personally the SOP is neither here nor there but spending any time with someone who has adopted the pervasive BA arrogance and attitude would be a lot worse.

To be fair to eagle21, the post he was replying to did state: "The monitored approach policy is the only reason that refrains me from applying to BA.” which is the first time I’ve seen/heard that particular one but each to their own.

If you showed that to a recruiter they would see it as a red flag in terms of SOP compliance - you’re paid to do a job and if the OMA/FCOM says this is way to do it, that’s how you do it unless you’re prepared to make an overwhelming safety case for doing it otherwise? It’s like people converting from one type to another who keep reminding you how they did it on their previous type/airline.

Why would you show it to a recruiter if you're not applying for the job? ;)

Very fair. Perhaps I had given too much weight to the approach idea, I can very much see it being a case of just adapting and it becoming a new personal norm. Personally I'm quite sure I would like a family life ultimately and I honestly very much struggle to see myself wanting anything other than short haul, certainly in my current frame of mind, for a multitude of reasons (flying enjoyment, sleep, time away etc). I think what I need to establish realistically is whether I would be best suited to a short haul career at my current outfit or at the flag carrier, there does seem to be this assumption that everyone who heads to BA would inevitably want long haul which troubles me a little given that is certainly not what I'm after! Although I am thankful to see one or two comments mentioning short haul long term. I have experience of one of the regional bases at ezy and it's a very lovely life indeed! (although admittedly this would get shaken up for command etc).

There are people with decades of experience at BA who have never flown long haul and never will. Think long and hard before throwing away a career based on misunderstood circumstances.

Sounds like you are better suited to Ezy. Happy SH, regional base, nights at home, fixed pattern roster, much more money (even if this new pay deal at BA goes through!)

Flying the flag comes with some advantages but they do not seem to be things of high value for you.

It is great you have this clarity early on!

Just find it interesting immediately there's two more comments after mine both conflicting in view set again! I definitely have clarity as to what I want from the job, just not where to do it!

I'm not familiar with the new pay deal but can't imagine it's 'much more' money over a career at either company based on the information I've seen? Beyond easyJet's obviously quick scaling early command etc.

At the end of the day I appreciate this is a decision that is ultimately entirely personal, I think I just have some frustration of not really knowing what the other side actually looks and feels like. Advice seems to vary massively (as perhaps one should expect!) both on this forum and from colleagues which reiterates there really being no one right answer and makes that decision even more challenging. Many thanks to everyone regardless, it's obviously a huge decision and I'm grateful to be starting to be at least a little more informed.

I am a big advocate of long haul because I consider it to be way better than short haul, but it sounds like you really do just want to stick with short haul and you also value being home every night, so in your shoes I would stay put.

In terms of enjoyment of the job Long Haul at BA is leagues ahead of Short Haul to the extent it’s not even in the rear view mirror anymore.

As for the monitored approach well I’ve got used to it but in reality it’s a tool for low vis. Totally ruins a manually flown visual approach to the extent that it was actually dissuading me from doing them as it was a source of frustration having to then hand it over at 1000 having flown it so well to that point (even more so when they would put the autopilot back in for a few hundred feet just to have to take it out again moments later - yes seriously I’ve seen this done on multiple occasions). I don’t buy the whole both pilots having “skin in the game” argument. If you’re sat there as PM on a multi crew jet transport aircraft and don’t feel a responsibility to be an active party to the operation then you probably shouldn’t be there in the first place. But it’s BA’s train set and I’m not going to pretend it’s something that particularly bothers me now, that’s long since passed.

But you’re going to find a multitude of different opinions on both. These just happen to be mine. Having experienced some of my line training in easy at a regional base I could easily see how that was an attractive avenue for some and every so often (mainly eastbound at 30W) I get a case of the what ifs. Never lasts though.

Are they scared of flying or something?

AFAIK there has only been one study comparing the two styles of approach handling. It was a long time ago but there were 4x as many incidents on the non monitored approach.
I can’t get too excited either way I’ve seen the pros/cons of both but I think the monitored approach has its place with low cloudbase/rvrs even if not in LVOs.
To decide on your career based on SOPs is bonkers.
Someone posted a golden nugget and that is LHRs curfew, think it through imagine if LGW had one life at ESY would be much nicer.
Go to BA stay SH get senior enjoy the roster control or play the system and cream in the overtime, do a right to left then if in 20 years you change your mind about LH you can change your bid.
Bloke in the pub said” SH pilots boast about being in their own bed every night whereas LH pilots boast about being in someone else’s bed”

The curfew might mean you get back early but it also means you have to arrive back after the restriction too.

Six of one...

If it takes a pprune thread of convincing someone to apply to a company, I really don’t think said company is for the person. As I said before it is the case people have spent whole careers doing only SH at BA so I can’t see why that is an issue.

I needed nobody to convince me to apply to BA and I am sure it was the same for most. If you take issue with SOPs then I really don’t think you will enjoy BA, the training (especially SH) is very fussy/demanding (bordering unreasonable) and compact from what I have been told. If you are on the fence in the first place regarding the modus operandi this may very well tip you over.

Personally I was bored stiff doing the same routes over and over, with the same mixed bag of characters out of the same small base. Not staying anywhere I flew to killed the excitement. It felt like I was on shackles and a career of it would've been a nightmare. There is a whole world out there to see and the local job just didn’t do it for me.

flown with a few like that..worse story was when FCO went out in fog during descent sir got out of his seat and locked himself in the forward lav until he heard the nose gear lock down - the copilots had headed north across the alps as the Po valley was also fog bound.
Had one guy on long range who was a nervous wreck and after we had done our stint as enlarging crew spent the next 6 hours sitting in first class rather than in the crew bunk - died a few months after he took his pension.
Had a mate who slept on the floor at home and flew on tranquillisers..had a bad skin disease caused by stress..changed airlines and became fleet chief..skin cleared up and told me he made his mates check pilots and wrote his own rosters with experienced first officers and only flew to safe destinations in good weather.
The profession isn’t for everyone- it’s handy that nowadays automatics have taken over and one doesn’t have so much responsibility nor need the skills.

You’ve lost me there Chesty as the restriction is 7 hours so how do you envisage arriving after the curfew?
The point I’m making is that my friends at EZY LGW often hate arriving back at 2/3am.
This can’t happen at LHR

By having yet another night down route, away from home, in yet another hotel.

Except it doesn’t work like that. If the crew were to be stuck down route so would the aircraft which affects the following day and more.
Much better to firebreak.

No, you miss my point. It's planned and rostered that way to avoid the curfew. Hence your extra and unnecessary nights away.

Fortunately I don't need to worry about 0300 arrivals or night stops but I would much rather get in to my own bed at that time of day rather than my third or fourth hotel of the week.

Having come from ezy to BA, the night jet ban is a god send. Even at peak summer I’m getting into bed earlier than I’d be landing back at easy.

I think he may be (although apologies if not!) referring to a situation, which happened with increasing regularity at easyJet from Gatwick, where you reported at 8/9/10pm to do a 2 sector there and back to Greek islands or Turkey, landing back at Gatwick after 6am. I believe it’s similar at Tui/Jet2 etc.

I’ve not done short haul at BA so don’t know, but presumably this isn’t done out of Heathrow to avoid the curfew without night-stopping?

Sent you a PM

Nope, nitestops are planned to allow an 8pm ish flight out of LHR and a 6am ish flight out of European airports because that’s where the demand is. It also allows a firebreak after delays. If say an 1800 departure is running late it’s often cancelled. Some are put on the earlier flight some on the later flight and some rerouted with other carriers / HOTAC at LHR as opposed to having 2 jets nitestop which screws the next day schedule.

I think the overriding point is that returning to base at horrible o’clock is avoided.

Q Chesty have you operated as a SH BA pilot out of LHR? If not I refer you to RT Jones post above they like others have first hand experience as erm do I.

Yes, which handily avoids the, erm, curfew:ugh:

No, I've never had the displeasure.