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I think Gordomacs posts are amusing and to a certain extent informative if you read between the lines. Is humour not allowed any more…? Any person seriously interested in pursuing an airline pilot career can research the information. Relying on pprune is not advisable but there are sometimes nuggets. There is quite a lot of full sponsorship available right now not least the aforementioned Jet2, TUI and BA but also Aer Lingus and Bristow helicopters for a different and fascinating start to an aviation career. Sometimes I feel that Gordo writes as though ahem, he is slightly under the influence of his local pub’s produce but fair play, don’t stop now Gordo!
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Gordomac, the instagram raised magenta children show almost disdain if you've been anywhere near a Trident or VC-10, it's not personal.
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Originally Posted by flash8
(Post 12012638)
Gordomac, the instagram raised magenta children show almost disdain if you've been anywhere near a Trident or VC-10, it's not personal.
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Originally Posted by b320
(Post 12012770)
17 year old here , if I could add my 2 cents , people in my generation treat cadet scheme applications like there applying to uni insted of applying to a job. Many of them haven't even work a single part time job in there lives, then there's me whose working two jobs while balancing a levels to fund my ppl, while other people get mummy and daddy to send them to skybourne it's unfair.
The (funded) cadet schemes are incredibly competitive, the people who are selected will have put an immense amount of effort into their applications and assessment days. Those who didn't simply won't be successful. Focus on yourself, not other people, we all took different routes to the same place. |
Originally Posted by Googlebug
(Post 12009222)
The bit that's missing is be 75\50 % of that by 30 and certainly 50% by 50.
Sure salary's are great but you burn out by your early 30s or do long term health damage. 5x4am wake ups or 2am bedtimes with multiple 12hr days on minimum rest is just not sustainable. Throw in the way seniority is and the CAS/EASA restrictions it's hard to job hop after 5/10 years in your relatively stuck where you are without huge income knocks. So your company's T&Cs tumble, Work life balance collapses your relatively stuck. Then your transferable skills outside of aviation are not really seen if you do want to exit. By the time these kids get to 60 most around them will be working until at least 70. I guess if you compare it to other jobs you can get with few qualifications sure it's great. You'll earn a lot more. The reality is most coming into it 'could' have higher education qualifications if wanted and with them the likes of professions city roles in consultancy, finance, IT, law. Pulling similar earning for a longer period of time. With nice retirement part time consultancy type gigs in their 60/70s whilst winding down. No worries about staying stringently medically fit to maintain their income in later years, less worries about childcare/family life. Normal sleep patterns (with so much research showing how important to later life health sleep is this is important). Dont get me wrong the job day to day I wouldn't want anything else. And the above makes me sound bitter. I'm not I'm grateful for my lot. I just don't think it was the job it was 20 years ago. And I wouldn't be advising a bright switched on person to turn to it. Your health is so much more important than short term gains in income. And this jobs certainly kicked mine and many around me. And I can only see the future being worse in that sense. |
Originally Posted by b320
(Post 12012770)
...then there's me whose working two jobs while balancing a levels to fund my ppl, while other people get mummy and daddy to send them to skybourne it's unfair.
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I switched to IT for a few years after 2020 COVID redundancies. Salary was great. Job looked easy. But all these corporate pressures, sedentary lifestyle* and toxic management/colleagues… all bought up with me at the end of the day. I thought I would be more free with 9-5, but turned out to be harder than one would imagine. Unless you managed to secure that unicorn job… which is probably a compromise anyway like everything ticks but no professional growth.
* I don’t know how, but even more sedentary than flying. Regarding the path into the aviation, I have to agree, there are just so many paid cadet programmes. It has never been so good. Competition is still insane, but a chance is better than no chance! In fact the only major issue with the aviation today is some of the hiring practices like bonding. I am on a border of Millennial / Gen Z by the way, and didn’t finish the flight school previous century. |
Originally Posted by b320
(Post 12012770)
17 year old here , if I could add my 2 cents , people in my generation treat cadet scheme applications like there applying to uni insted of applying to a job. Many of them haven't even work a single part time job in there lives, then there's me whose working two jobs while balancing a levels to fund my ppl, while other people get mummy and daddy to send them to skybourne it's unfair.
Stop looking at others and don’t compere yourself, you will make it one day and that’s what counts! All the best, nice to see some hard working pal for his dream! |
That kinda sums up how us old farts thinks think of younger generation “ it’s so unfair “.
I keep seeing posts on flying school ads “ it’s so expensive , if funding was available they’d get more talent “. They’ll always be some from the bank of mum and dad and some from the school of hard knocks - don’t get a chip on your shoulder - the destination is the same . Well the world simply doesn’t need that many pilots that it should be available to everyone , and not everyone is suitable . The first filter is self sabotage - are you willing to crawl across broken glass to get where you want to be ? How much do you want it ? If there’s the answer is not enough , go do something else . |
Interesting how the thread has drifted but still, I suggest, within the bounds of "Terms & Conditions:.
I sought, only, to point in the right direction and give accurate advice. Accused of all sorts but, largely, got from this forum what I sought. One has to be careful with terminology. I appreciate that nothing compares with the schemes of the 60's. ""Fully sponsored"- really ? ""Partial sponsorship", "Fully funded"-Whaaat-? Absolute minefield and even wealthy Moms & Dads need awareness that the pockets need to be much deeper than what the initial quote suggested. Even "Cadet"schemes make me chuckle. I think the current BA, Fully funded Cadet scheme allows max age at entry close to the retirement age of what was in place, er, in my day. Another "Fully funded"scheme required the successful entrant to ,actually, ""|self fund"" about 100k in order to guard against subsequent course failure Pass the course, and the "bang guarantee"" was extinguished by the ""|sponsor". Oh dear. Asking in my opener what Airlines were seeking at entry, I suggested info I got of one airline asking for 50 quid just to look over a CV. Got a biff in the face even at that suggestion. Good Lord indeed.. I do have severe problems in guiding youngsters accurately when,often accompanying the enquiry will be requests for information on how I achieved it. At one point in my career (sorry) but I served on the Selection Board when we "Partially sponsored"". Good grief. We took CPL holders (however achieved) and fully sponsored the twin rating, IR course and all subsequent airline training to RHS B737. It's ok Keyboard warriors. All in the past and the present looks very unappealing to me. A view I will pass on to the Wannabees at the Taverna. |
All in the past and the present looks very unappealing to me. A view I will pass on to the Wannabees at the Taverna. Flying airliners is still an excellent career. The difficulty of training to gain entry, versus the financial reward over a career for such minimal effort, is streaks ahead of any other career I can think of, and it’s a fun career too. I would definitely recommend it to anyone who has any interest at all in flying. |
Flying airliners is an excellent career…but for how long? Will the job still exist in 40 years? Or will it go the way of a whaling ship Captain? Maybe airships powered by solar panels will be the future?
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Originally Posted by hunterboy
(Post 12013011)
Flying airliners is an excellent career…but for how long? Will the job still exist in 40 years? Or will it go the way of a whaling ship Captain? Maybe airships powered by solar panels will be the future?
Well the 777- 9 hasn’t been delivered yet and still has 2 seats 😂. If you were starting now I think you’d be ok still . BA seems to have cast its net wider with current sponsorship . If I read correctly - 5 x GCSEs and max age about a hundred … probably a good move as back in the early 90s they seemed to struggle to get anyone with a real passion for aviation - just a truckload of recent graduates |
Originally Posted by hunterboy
(Post 12013011)
Flying airliners is an excellent career…but for how long? Will the job still exist in 40 years? Or will it go the way of a whaling ship Captain? Maybe airships powered by solar panels will be the future?
I'd hazard a guess it would be vaguely similar for replacing the Navigator (1960s-1980s) and maybe even the radio operator before that. So in terms of single pilot ops, given no aircraft has yet been so certified, let alone pilotless I'd think you'll be ok if training now. I am as sure of this, however, as I was that 640kb of RAM ought to be enough for anybody.... |
AFAIK the next aircraft generation, A320 follow on and likely 737 follow on, is still planned with two person cockpits. There had been considerations of going one man only but now it looks more like A350 or 787 technologies trickling down. However the new B-21 is only optionally manned.
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the first widebody without an FE was the B767 in 1982. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4c01520500.jpg |
Originally Posted by flash8
(Post 12013124)
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Originally Posted by Gordomac
(Post 12012965)
Interesting how the thread has drifted but still, I suggest, within the bounds of "Terms & Conditions:.
I sought, only, to point in the right direction and give accurate advice. Accused of all sorts but, largely, got from this forum what I sought. One has to be careful with terminology. I appreciate that nothing compares with the schemes of the 60's. ""Fully sponsored"- really ? ""Partial sponsorship", "Fully funded"-Whaaat-? Absolute minefield and even wealthy Moms & Dads need awareness that the pockets need to be much deeper than what the initial quote suggested. Even "Cadet"schemes make me chuckle. I think the current BA, Fully funded Cadet scheme allows max age at entry close to the retirement age of what was in place, er, in my day. Another "Fully funded"scheme required the successful entrant to ,actually, ""|self fund"" about 100k in order to guard against subsequent course failure Pass the course, and the "bang guarantee"" was extinguished by the ""|sponsor". Oh dear. Asking in my opener what Airlines were seeking at entry, I suggested info I got of one airline asking for 50 quid just to look over a CV. Got a biff in the face even at that suggestion. Good Lord indeed.. I do have severe problems in guiding youngsters accurately when,often accompanying the enquiry will be requests for information on how I achieved it. At one point in my career (sorry) but I served on the Selection Board when we "Partially sponsored"". Good grief. We took CPL holders (however achieved) and fully sponsored the twin rating, IR course and all subsequent airline training to RHS B737. It's ok Keyboard warriors. All in the past and the present looks very unappealing to me. A view I will pass on to the Wannabees at the Taverna. Whilst BA nominally allowed those up to the age of 55 to apply to the Speedbird Academy, however looking at the group photos of some of the successful applicants and a brief look at LinkedIn, I'd say at least 80% would have met the old pre-9/11 TEP requirements of being between 18 and 26. There were some over the age of 30 and apparently one or two in their early 40's, however I believe none older than that. I think one of the reasons why cadet schemes are so popular now is that they are effectively profit deferral schemes for airlines. The cost of training is offset by a lower starting salary for a good few years and of course can be written off against tax. The savings from the lower salaries may be realised at a low point in an economic cycle when an airline is making a much smaller profit, or indeed a loss. It's lowering today's taxable profit to generate a greater net income in future years. |
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