Future at Virgin
 

Any info regards the state of play at Virgin? I understand morale rock bottom, guys still resigning for pastures new and the flightdeck made redundant unwilling to return due very low pay and 14 years to command. Is it really that bad or should I look elsewhere?

"Low pay" is apparently the case. 1st officers at Go get paid more than first officers at Virgin I understand.....

No evidence of low morale noticed in the Virgin crews in 'the truck' last week. :)

Airclues

Was on VS20 recently, and I thought it odd that the cabin announcements from the flight deck were terse and uncommunicative. No names, no banter, not an extra ounce.

We had a long delay waiting for takeoff clearance at SFO, which got one very short "Don't know what's going on, they seem to have halted departures from the left hand runway, we'll let you know if we can find anyone who knows what's going on" after around 45 minutes sitting on the taxiway. I suppose there's some comfort in knowing that the people driving the thing are as narked as the rest of us, but it wasn't very professional. Were things strained all over due to 911?

As it happened, around three minutes after the PA on the departure problems, we took off without another word - which caused some difficulties, as a couple of pax had asked permission on hearing the announcement to use the loos and been told it was OK. I think it's the first time I've seen people dashing *away* from a toilet that urgently...

Without a further message that things had cleared up, the cabin crew didn't have a chance to resecure the cabin before we were trundling down the runway. I'd think that if an indeterminate delay had been announced, it would be reasonable for the cabin crew to allow use of the loos until further information had been received. On the other hand, can they let people undo seatbelts in that situation without explicit permission? Lack of communication between the flght deck and the cabin?

Also, the state of the cabin electics was very poor. The in-flight entertainment at my seat gave up the ghost (and it wasn't the only one, by a long chalk), there was a PA asking for anyone with a working reading light who wasn't planning on using it to swap seats with someone whose light had broken, and a section in economy had lost their overhead no smoking/fasten seatbelts annunciators. That has safety implications, which I'm glad to say the cabin crew dealt with admirably during the flight, but the whole thing added up to something far short of the advertised Virgin experience.

I should say that the cabin crew were exemplary throughout, and coped with everything with good humour and patience.

Just a POV from the back of the bus.

R

Self Loading Freight

Might be nice to amend your post to removed the exact flight and date. Then there is no chance of the crew being traced by the employer, and made to answer your statements...

Maybe "a West Coast flight" in "the last few days" would be better?

NoD

PS Now see pPrune Towers has done so - thank you

Same here....
 

I'm with SLF here, as another SLF I was "on a Heathrow to the US East Coast just over a week ago" and there wasn't a single word from the flight deck. Cabin crew were exemplary though. IFE was old & knackered.

Aircraft was G-VFAB. Hope that doesn't give it away.

Shame as VS always come across as a good airline......

WT

World traveller

Whilst the IFE may have been 'knackered' (or unservicable) when it is unknackered you have about 12 movie channels on your own screen, 6 different games and an inflight map, you have a telephone on a wall near you too. That is the 'old' fit. I bet you not have that on many other carrier's flights ex-LHR to the east coast USA

When the LHR machines have been for their 'B' checks, the movies will be 'on demand' on a bigger personal screen and the phone moves to the newly redesinged seat. You can also plug in the lap top, and do e-mail and SMS soon. The cabin crew will, of course keep the excellent standard they always have.

I have not been on a Virgin flight when the flight deck have not done a PA, so I guess that yours (and the post above) were rare events.

Morale in the company merely reflects present times and customers are still treated as well as the they ever have with the large dose of 'Virgin Flair' again, far better than the majors ex-LHR.

I don't know which airline crewrest works for but Virgin has gone RIGHT down!

I have worked there many years. The product is a disaster, IFE problems are correct. Morale couldn't be any lower with large numbers of cabin crew leaving and flights going without a full compliment.

The pilots are EXTREMELY fed up and also leaving.

If Virgin is still the great airline, where are the airline of the year awards this year? Virgin didn't get ANY!

Unfortunately, what dickyflys says is true.

Morale really is rock-bottom. Under-crewed flights, tired and fed-up pilots, disrupted rosters and no home-life. 9hr+ Florida flights with only 2 pilots using flight-time limitations designed for seasonal charter operators.

Even the Engineers admit to having to dispatch aircraft with unserviceable IFE leaving the cabin crew to cope with the wrath of unhappy passengers.

What's obvious from the above comments is that the valued pax are beginning to notice. Lets hope the management wake up before it's too late.:confused:

That's not what they are saying as I type on Virgin Radio!!

I saw an item that explained that Virgin will no longer provide the compartment for mothers changing babies diapers. It seems there were too many couples wishing to join The Mile High Club, and the changing table couldn't take the load.

Those who wish a career with Virgin should consider the following.....a pilot joining the airline today will now wait between 10 to 15 years for their command which will require 37 new aircraft.The airline has only 42 pilots retiring between now and 2013.Easy to decide if its a great option.

WOOF

Needles, at the risk of playing devil's advocate, why is it any less acceptable for Virgin to run "9hr+ Florida flights with only 2 pilots using flight-time limitations designed for seasonal charter operators" when charter operators operate 9hr+ flights to Florida with 2 pilots in competition with Virgin?

Not being narky, just felt this was not an unreasonable question to ask. Surely you are not implying that the seasonal charter operators are any less safe than Virgin?

I am given to believe that one of the major reasons that flight crews in Virgin are so badly paid is that the Grinning Pullover has always found a ready supply of 55 year-old ex-BA pilots who are prepared to accept that level of recompense in order to allow them to supplement their niggardly BA final salary scheme pensions.

The word to spread here guys is DON'T GO THERE!

Everything you ever heard about the grass being greener is proven at Virgin Atlantic.

If you do nothing else tomorrow, please help us all out in Virgin and spread the word, as PPrune seems to work!

It used to be great, and it's all gone. The money used to be compensated by fun and benefits. Not anymore.

You will notice that you don't see the grinning pullover much anymore!

Wonder why? He is in hiding from his crew.

It's a shame.

Dickyflys:

Are you one of the few that left CX to join Virgin? :rolleyes:

Seasonal?????
 

Flightrider,

It’s very interesting that you use the wording “seasonal charter operator”.

Virgin Atlantic is a scheduled airline, not a seasonal charter airline. If that were the case then presumably Virgin pilots would work only part of the year, and have the rest of the year to recuperate....??

To any pilot (whether charter or otherwise) the Florida 2 variation is dangerous, and should never have been implemented. It stinks of commercial pressure, and we like fools have gone along with it.

Only by standing together will we be able to combat this and many other daily assaults on our safety and self esteem.

SET/SAFE?/ARMED

Just curious, but what (approximately) is the pay differential between BA and VS 744 Captains?

I must say both carriers provide great service, but VS wins overall. Exceptional service and very attentive flight attendents.

Thanks in advance.
http://www.surfsidehawaii.com/aatwa.gif

Its not only the pilots and cabin crew who have had enough. In just about all departments people are leaving in much larger numbers than Virgin has had in the past. As to the 'unserviciability' of the aircraft IFE etc this is just the result of a lack of spares and more so the lack of Engineers to maintain the syastem. Wonder why aircraft are often late due techinical problems? Could be to do with the record number of licensed engineers that have left? Delays at check-in = lack of check-in staff, passengers waitng up to 45 minutes after a flight for assistance with wheelchairs = lack of staff etc etc........
As a previous post said, why didn't Virgin win any awards this year................if your staff are happy..................

Flightrider. The point about 2-man to Florida Virgin v charter is that the charter guys only do it in the summer season. Virgin have 3-5 flights to Florida a day all year round and so we can end up flying the max 2 a month, every month.

I don't think 9+ hr flights should ever be performed by 2 pilots, charter or scheduled, and we were fools ever to have agreed to do them. Rolled over by the CAA yet again in the interest of saving a couple of grand (which probably went to the to@@er who got it approved for the airline anyway)

As for morale at Virgin, it's lower than a snakes a@@ and unless something radical is done about pay and conditions, the mobile voter will continue to move to pastures green (or orange!)

B767300ER - u do realise that's a 75 image don't you?

Why has this been moved? A perfectly good discussion has been shunted into the sideings.

Here's the link to the Mile High Club problem:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?newsl...6B211&set_id=1

Pilots return to Virgin
 

I heard that some ex Virgin Pilots were leaving easyjet to rejoin
Virgin. Why would they return to a company with such low moral, in all seriouness if the preverbial hits the fan again easy won't take them back!

Of course I know it's a 757!

(we fly both here at AA)

Right down to the P&W TWA engines and the RR AA engines.

Cheershttps://image.jetnet.aa.com/imageser...ure_header.gif

Got this via e-mail:

Mile high club bonk to bits







Romper room ... passengers used baby changing rooms on Virgin Airbus for romps










By PAUL CROSBIE

VIRGIN'S latest airliner is being revamped after randy passengers discovered a tiny cabin was just the place to join the Mile High Club.

The £130million Airbus 340-600 is fitted with a 5ft x 4ft mother and baby room with a plastic table meant for changing nappies.

But couples keep wrecking it by sneaking in for a quick bonk.

Virgin has replaced the table several times even though the plane only came into service a few weeks ago.

It is named Claudia Nine after sexy model Claudia Schiffer, 32, who launched it in July.

Now Virgin bosses have asked Airbus to build a stronger table.

At first, German engineers responsible for the jet's interior were baffled by the problem.

The table is designed to take the weight of a mum and baby.

One Airbus worker said: "We couldn't work it out. Then the penny dropped. It didn't occur to the Germans that this might happen. It caused great amusement."

The firm say the cost of strengthening the tables will be about £200.

A Virgin spokeswoman said: "Those determined to join the Mile High Club will do so despite the lack of comforts.

"We don't mind couples having a good time but this is not something that we would encourage because of air regulations."

The new Airbus is the world's longest airliner, with teasing slogan "Mine is bigger than yours". Virgin is using it on flights to the Far East and the US.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We got our B-767 simulator training at a facility near Gatwick.

Dickflys If you think things will get any better in Virgin financially then think again as SIA now own 49% and they are past masters at screwing Pilots although it does help having Draconian Labour laws to back up your threats and intimidation. The only reason SIA were interested in Virgin is cos it is a Low Cost Airline just like SIA!!

B767300ER - I should have checked yr profile - apols

Easy,

If I were you I would look elsewhere. The expected time to command is 10-12 years notwithstanding any more market downturns, this equates to @37 extra aircraft.......

The Fun has gone, morale is rock bottom & the salary is among the worst worldwide for Long-Haul operations.

As for the 2 crew Florida's, I was affected by this: the limits are 9 in 6 months, I was called out for an extra MIA & was told that it was my 9th, it was in fact my 10th but one had "got lost" in the system!!!!!! Before I left crewing was groaning at the seams, lots of crew on Unapid Leave aren't going back at the moment even though the company are asking them to return.

I joined Virgin for a career, this is now not a reason to join as experience has shown that when the chips are down you are very expendable.....

There are worse companies out there.. but there are also a lot better.:(

This thread confirms what I have thought for a long time. Fly Virgin (or anyone else for that matter) and get a grumpy Captain and its a relatively insiginificant event. Get a grumpy cabin staff or the IFE doesn't work and you cross the terminal and fly with another airline next time. Moral of the story: Don't moan about how much pilots are paid because so long as the autopilot does its job you have little or no direct impact on the passenger (customer) and therefore no control or impact on the profitability of the company. Show me a single successful company that pays its staff 50k plus when they have no impact on the bottom line. No wonder airlines struggle to make a profit. Stop moaning and get a real job ( 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year) like the rest of the country.

Rant over, 'step away from the thread Mr Bert its about to explode'

Fatal bert.............what????????

overworked, fatigued, grumpy Captain = lack of ability to concentrate properly on job at hand = danger to all on board.

This is why airline managements should be brought to book for their consistent ability to ignore the relationship between fatigue, low morale and flight safety.

I think you'll find that pilots can have a very real effect on the bottom line............

....and another thing....

Fatal bert, I see from your one other post that your an ex-military pilot.

It would be nice to see some support from a colleague....

So, other than trying to wind us all up, I don't get this "don't moan about how much pilots are paid" and "stop moaning and get a real job like the rest of the country" c**p.

If we the pilots don't complain about our t's and c's, who else is going to stand up for us? How in hell's name will we have any control over our working lives and indirectly the quality of life for our families?

*sigh*......

OK then a slight expansion on my last post. It was written at 0200 so was a bit vitriolic, sorry.
The point that wound me up was the moan early in the thread with regard to FO's at Go earning more than their equivalent at Virgin. While I accept that their is a traditional hierarchy of airline employment in terms of pay and conditions (and prestige) with the long haul operators at the top of the tree, I believe the low cost guys are under considerably more pressure to achieve and are working a lot harder. So rather than complain about how much people at Go earn just be grateful you managed to get a job at the top of the food chain.

Thanks for the reply FB. Glad to see I'm not the only one who suffers from the 0200 rant......(usually alcohol induced in my case).

I agree about the direct comparisons between airlines - tends to deflect from the main issue. :)

Thanks for the postings men.

I'll look elsewhere.

The Big Easy.:(

I didn't leave CX for Virgin.
I haven't heard of ANYBODY coming back to Virgin from Easyjet.

Again, PLEASE all spread the word that Virgin is NOT the place to be anymore.

Dickyflys

I know of at least SIX people leaving Easy to come back to Virgin, maybe more. They're even paying off thier £17k bonds to leave (£15.52 per day they leave before the 3 years is up!)

Maybe you think Virgin is bad but is Easy worse?????

RD

Hmmm. Well that's interesting. I'd heard we were touting for temporary FO contracts on the 400 to cover the winter.

Maybe you'll find those leaving Easyjet to return to Virgin, were never on Long-haul!:cool:

Ref leaving easy for Virgin:

Story is they are ex-cadets who spent 2 years with Virgin Sun doing 2 sector days 4 times a month then had a couple of months on the 340 bunk before redundancy. As a result, so the story goes, they found 4 sector days with easy a bit of a shock... Of course this is only hearsay and I would hate to think this was true.

As for the pay- not only Go but easy and bmi F/Os take home about 500 - 800 quid per month more than me. When you balance in (?) pension and rosters I still think the short-haul guys are ahead. (Shame I biffed the easyJet sim really).

Dunhovrin
 

not sure about bmi f/o's earning that much. Go/Easy/Ryan I can undersand with sector pay but bmi? The word out of Crawley is that they have been somewhat inundated with CVs many of which are from bmi, if they were earning that much why leave?