Future at Virgin
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Future at Virgin
Any info regards the state of play at Virgin? I understand morale rock bottom, guys still resigning for pastures new and the flightdeck made redundant unwilling to return due very low pay and 14 years to command. Is it really that bad or should I look elsewhere?
None but a blockhead
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Was on VS20 recently, and I thought it odd that the cabin announcements from the flight deck were terse and uncommunicative. No names, no banter, not an extra ounce.
We had a long delay waiting for takeoff clearance at SFO, which got one very short "Don't know what's going on, they seem to have halted departures from the left hand runway, we'll let you know if we can find anyone who knows what's going on" after around 45 minutes sitting on the taxiway. I suppose there's some comfort in knowing that the people driving the thing are as narked as the rest of us, but it wasn't very professional. Were things strained all over due to 911?
As it happened, around three minutes after the PA on the departure problems, we took off without another word - which caused some difficulties, as a couple of pax had asked permission on hearing the announcement to use the loos and been told it was OK. I think it's the first time I've seen people dashing *away* from a toilet that urgently...
Without a further message that things had cleared up, the cabin crew didn't have a chance to resecure the cabin before we were trundling down the runway. I'd think that if an indeterminate delay had been announced, it would be reasonable for the cabin crew to allow use of the loos until further information had been received. On the other hand, can they let people undo seatbelts in that situation without explicit permission? Lack of communication between the flght deck and the cabin?
Also, the state of the cabin electics was very poor. The in-flight entertainment at my seat gave up the ghost (and it wasn't the only one, by a long chalk), there was a PA asking for anyone with a working reading light who wasn't planning on using it to swap seats with someone whose light had broken, and a section in economy had lost their overhead no smoking/fasten seatbelts annunciators. That has safety implications, which I'm glad to say the cabin crew dealt with admirably during the flight, but the whole thing added up to something far short of the advertised Virgin experience.
I should say that the cabin crew were exemplary throughout, and coped with everything with good humour and patience.
Just a POV from the back of the bus.
R
We had a long delay waiting for takeoff clearance at SFO, which got one very short "Don't know what's going on, they seem to have halted departures from the left hand runway, we'll let you know if we can find anyone who knows what's going on" after around 45 minutes sitting on the taxiway. I suppose there's some comfort in knowing that the people driving the thing are as narked as the rest of us, but it wasn't very professional. Were things strained all over due to 911?
As it happened, around three minutes after the PA on the departure problems, we took off without another word - which caused some difficulties, as a couple of pax had asked permission on hearing the announcement to use the loos and been told it was OK. I think it's the first time I've seen people dashing *away* from a toilet that urgently...
Without a further message that things had cleared up, the cabin crew didn't have a chance to resecure the cabin before we were trundling down the runway. I'd think that if an indeterminate delay had been announced, it would be reasonable for the cabin crew to allow use of the loos until further information had been received. On the other hand, can they let people undo seatbelts in that situation without explicit permission? Lack of communication between the flght deck and the cabin?
Also, the state of the cabin electics was very poor. The in-flight entertainment at my seat gave up the ghost (and it wasn't the only one, by a long chalk), there was a PA asking for anyone with a working reading light who wasn't planning on using it to swap seats with someone whose light had broken, and a section in economy had lost their overhead no smoking/fasten seatbelts annunciators. That has safety implications, which I'm glad to say the cabin crew dealt with admirably during the flight, but the whole thing added up to something far short of the advertised Virgin experience.
I should say that the cabin crew were exemplary throughout, and coped with everything with good humour and patience.
Just a POV from the back of the bus.
R
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 15th Sep 2002 at 15:46.
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Self Loading Freight
Might be nice to amend your post to removed the exact flight and date. Then there is no chance of the crew being traced by the employer, and made to answer your statements...
Maybe "a West Coast flight" in "the last few days" would be better?
NoD
PS Now see pPrune Towers has done so - thank you
Might be nice to amend your post to removed the exact flight and date. Then there is no chance of the crew being traced by the employer, and made to answer your statements...
Maybe "a West Coast flight" in "the last few days" would be better?
NoD
PS Now see pPrune Towers has done so - thank you
Last edited by NigelOnDraft; 15th Sep 2002 at 20:13.
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Same here....
I'm with SLF here, as another SLF I was "on a Heathrow to the US East Coast just over a week ago" and there wasn't a single word from the flight deck. Cabin crew were exemplary though. IFE was old & knackered.
Aircraft was G-VFAB. Hope that doesn't give it away.
Shame as VS always come across as a good airline......
WT
Aircraft was G-VFAB. Hope that doesn't give it away.
Shame as VS always come across as a good airline......
WT
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World traveller
Whilst the IFE may have been 'knackered' (or unservicable) when it is unknackered you have about 12 movie channels on your own screen, 6 different games and an inflight map, you have a telephone on a wall near you too. That is the 'old' fit. I bet you not have that on many other carrier's flights ex-LHR to the east coast USA
When the LHR machines have been for their 'B' checks, the movies will be 'on demand' on a bigger personal screen and the phone moves to the newly redesinged seat. You can also plug in the lap top, and do e-mail and SMS soon. The cabin crew will, of course keep the excellent standard they always have.
I have not been on a Virgin flight when the flight deck have not done a PA, so I guess that yours (and the post above) were rare events.
Morale in the company merely reflects present times and customers are still treated as well as the they ever have with the large dose of 'Virgin Flair' again, far better than the majors ex-LHR.
Whilst the IFE may have been 'knackered' (or unservicable) when it is unknackered you have about 12 movie channels on your own screen, 6 different games and an inflight map, you have a telephone on a wall near you too. That is the 'old' fit. I bet you not have that on many other carrier's flights ex-LHR to the east coast USA
When the LHR machines have been for their 'B' checks, the movies will be 'on demand' on a bigger personal screen and the phone moves to the newly redesinged seat. You can also plug in the lap top, and do e-mail and SMS soon. The cabin crew will, of course keep the excellent standard they always have.
I have not been on a Virgin flight when the flight deck have not done a PA, so I guess that yours (and the post above) were rare events.
Morale in the company merely reflects present times and customers are still treated as well as the they ever have with the large dose of 'Virgin Flair' again, far better than the majors ex-LHR.
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I don't know which airline crewrest works for but Virgin has gone RIGHT down!
I have worked there many years. The product is a disaster, IFE problems are correct. Morale couldn't be any lower with large numbers of cabin crew leaving and flights going without a full compliment.
The pilots are EXTREMELY fed up and also leaving.
If Virgin is still the great airline, where are the airline of the year awards this year? Virgin didn't get ANY!
I have worked there many years. The product is a disaster, IFE problems are correct. Morale couldn't be any lower with large numbers of cabin crew leaving and flights going without a full compliment.
The pilots are EXTREMELY fed up and also leaving.
If Virgin is still the great airline, where are the airline of the year awards this year? Virgin didn't get ANY!
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Unfortunately, what dickyflys says is true.
Morale really is rock-bottom. Under-crewed flights, tired and fed-up pilots, disrupted rosters and no home-life. 9hr+ Florida flights with only 2 pilots using flight-time limitations designed for seasonal charter operators.
Even the Engineers admit to having to dispatch aircraft with unserviceable IFE leaving the cabin crew to cope with the wrath of unhappy passengers.
What's obvious from the above comments is that the valued pax are beginning to notice. Lets hope the management wake up before it's too late.
Morale really is rock-bottom. Under-crewed flights, tired and fed-up pilots, disrupted rosters and no home-life. 9hr+ Florida flights with only 2 pilots using flight-time limitations designed for seasonal charter operators.
Even the Engineers admit to having to dispatch aircraft with unserviceable IFE leaving the cabin crew to cope with the wrath of unhappy passengers.
What's obvious from the above comments is that the valued pax are beginning to notice. Lets hope the management wake up before it's too late.
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I saw an item that explained that Virgin will no longer provide the compartment for mothers changing babies diapers. It seems there were too many couples wishing to join The Mile High Club, and the changing table couldn't take the load.
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Those who wish a career with Virgin should consider the following.....a pilot joining the airline today will now wait between 10 to 15 years for their command which will require 37 new aircraft.The airline has only 42 pilots retiring between now and 2013.Easy to decide if its a great option.
WOOF
WOOF
Last edited by HOUND; 16th Sep 2002 at 19:05.
Needles, at the risk of playing devil's advocate, why is it any less acceptable for Virgin to run "9hr+ Florida flights with only 2 pilots using flight-time limitations designed for seasonal charter operators" when charter operators operate 9hr+ flights to Florida with 2 pilots in competition with Virgin?
Not being narky, just felt this was not an unreasonable question to ask. Surely you are not implying that the seasonal charter operators are any less safe than Virgin?
Not being narky, just felt this was not an unreasonable question to ask. Surely you are not implying that the seasonal charter operators are any less safe than Virgin?
I am given to believe that one of the major reasons that flight crews in Virgin are so badly paid is that the Grinning Pullover has always found a ready supply of 55 year-old ex-BA pilots who are prepared to accept that level of recompense in order to allow them to supplement their niggardly BA final salary scheme pensions.
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The word to spread here guys is DON'T GO THERE!
Everything you ever heard about the grass being greener is proven at Virgin Atlantic.
If you do nothing else tomorrow, please help us all out in Virgin and spread the word, as PPrune seems to work!
It used to be great, and it's all gone. The money used to be compensated by fun and benefits. Not anymore.
You will notice that you don't see the grinning pullover much anymore!
Wonder why? He is in hiding from his crew.
It's a shame.
Everything you ever heard about the grass being greener is proven at Virgin Atlantic.
If you do nothing else tomorrow, please help us all out in Virgin and spread the word, as PPrune seems to work!
It used to be great, and it's all gone. The money used to be compensated by fun and benefits. Not anymore.
You will notice that you don't see the grinning pullover much anymore!
Wonder why? He is in hiding from his crew.
It's a shame.
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Seasonal?????
Flightrider,
It’s very interesting that you use the wording “seasonal charter operator”.
Virgin Atlantic is a scheduled airline, not a seasonal charter airline. If that were the case then presumably Virgin pilots would work only part of the year, and have the rest of the year to recuperate....??
To any pilot (whether charter or otherwise) the Florida 2 variation is dangerous, and should never have been implemented. It stinks of commercial pressure, and we like fools have gone along with it.
Only by standing together will we be able to combat this and many other daily assaults on our safety and self esteem.
SET/SAFE?/ARMED
It’s very interesting that you use the wording “seasonal charter operator”.
Virgin Atlantic is a scheduled airline, not a seasonal charter airline. If that were the case then presumably Virgin pilots would work only part of the year, and have the rest of the year to recuperate....??
To any pilot (whether charter or otherwise) the Florida 2 variation is dangerous, and should never have been implemented. It stinks of commercial pressure, and we like fools have gone along with it.
Only by standing together will we be able to combat this and many other daily assaults on our safety and self esteem.
SET/SAFE?/ARMED
Last edited by SET/SAFE/ARMED; 17th Sep 2002 at 01:35.
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Just curious, but what (approximately) is the pay differential between BA and VS 744 Captains?
I must say both carriers provide great service, but VS wins overall. Exceptional service and very attentive flight attendents.
Thanks in advance.
I must say both carriers provide great service, but VS wins overall. Exceptional service and very attentive flight attendents.
Thanks in advance.
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Its not only the pilots and cabin crew who have had enough. In just about all departments people are leaving in much larger numbers than Virgin has had in the past. As to the 'unserviciability' of the aircraft IFE etc this is just the result of a lack of spares and more so the lack of Engineers to maintain the syastem. Wonder why aircraft are often late due techinical problems? Could be to do with the record number of licensed engineers that have left? Delays at check-in = lack of check-in staff, passengers waitng up to 45 minutes after a flight for assistance with wheelchairs = lack of staff etc etc........
As a previous post said, why didn't Virgin win any awards this year................if your staff are happy..................
As a previous post said, why didn't Virgin win any awards this year................if your staff are happy..................
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Flightrider. The point about 2-man to Florida Virgin v charter is that the charter guys only do it in the summer season. Virgin have 3-5 flights to Florida a day all year round and so we can end up flying the max 2 a month, every month.
I don't think 9+ hr flights should ever be performed by 2 pilots, charter or scheduled, and we were fools ever to have agreed to do them. Rolled over by the CAA yet again in the interest of saving a couple of grand (which probably went to the to@@er who got it approved for the airline anyway)
As for morale at Virgin, it's lower than a snakes a@@ and unless something radical is done about pay and conditions, the mobile voter will continue to move to pastures green (or orange!)
I don't think 9+ hr flights should ever be performed by 2 pilots, charter or scheduled, and we were fools ever to have agreed to do them. Rolled over by the CAA yet again in the interest of saving a couple of grand (which probably went to the to@@er who got it approved for the airline anyway)
As for morale at Virgin, it's lower than a snakes a@@ and unless something radical is done about pay and conditions, the mobile voter will continue to move to pastures green (or orange!)