Is it worth joining the union?
 

Hi all,
I was just wondering if anyone could offer any advice on this.

I am a new pilot and have just passed line training and have just moved on to normal 'line flying'. I don't really know much about BALPA or what they do. The union is recognised at my airline, but nobody has mentioned it/ suggested I join.

I would consider myself a 'union man' I guess. I was a union rep at a previous workplace (not aviation) and my uncle is a big wig in one of the major unions. But I am not sure whether BALPA is worth it given the cost.

So what does everyone reckon? Is it worth joining?

If BALPA is recognised at your airline it is the only organisation that will negotiate Ts&Cs on your behalf. Generally the higher the union membership in any company, the more powerful those negotiations can be - ask your uncle. If you're happy to take negotiated benefits without contributing ...... I know how hard it was to get union recognition in my last airline, the fact that mgmt fought against it should tell you something and I know that without BALPA recognition the Ts&Cs would have been way worse.

That's before you factor in any form of employment protection - many PPruners will have strong views on this both ways.

For me, I couldn't ask someone to negotiate for me without being part of it and contributing to it.

Hth

There are some tax breaks that Balpa have managed to obtain as well, could save a ££££.
Also 70%( AFAIK)of your subscriptions are tax deductible.

I always had BALPA membership in case of a tea and no biccys meeting, at least I could have someone with me to make sure I would have been treated fairly.

Post 2 says it all.

Either that or if you aren't coordinated join the masons..might save your career..(from experience).

We have something like 98% membership density at my non-aviation workplace and we're one of the few trades/professions which has held on to really good T&Cs in the past 20 or so years. The right-wing media hate us for it but it's a price worth paying. The reps at my current employer introduced themselves in the messroom on the day I started and from my experience do a very good job.

I'd say it's an absolute no-brainer to join the union to start with, at the very least it's an insurance policy. Hopefully they have the membership density required to have some serious clout at the negotiating table. I'm slightly surprised you haven't heard from them already though.

Appreciative of some of the posts above. I am well aware of what a union *can* do as a former union rep. I am also well aware of what power solidarity and high union membership *can* have.

However, my question was whether BALPA was worth it.

As said above, nobody has even mentioned the union to me which was a bit surprising. One of my roles as a union rep was the contact new staff (ideally in their first few days) and to introduce myself and, basically, to try to sell the union to them. We also had welcome packs which would be given out to all new staff. I've been at the airline flying for months (plural) now and heard nothing. That has definitely put me off.

I am also not certain what benefits it would provide me personally. Obviously we have a negotiated pay deal which I benefit from either way, but which is primarily market dictated. It is also patently apparent in their pay deal that they are happy to have new entrants shafted on the payscale, in terms of job security, and in terms of benefits. One day in the future, I'll be on the other side of it, but that day isn't today. The tax thing I can apply for anyway. I suppose the only benefit I can see real use of is legal representation as a sort of insurance policy.

It's not the Mafia, join, and if it doesn't cut the mustard, you can still leave.

AlwaysWondering,

I guess union protocol can be different in the US vs EU but I'm surprised a BALPA presentation wasn't part of your initial indoc at the airline.

Does your employer there have what we call Agency Shop ?:


An agency shop is a type of workplace where employees are not required to join a union but still must pay union dues or a fee for the union's representation in collective bargaining.

The lack of hard sell has put you off joining?!

Sounds like people at your airline are simply content with their union so don’t spend all day everyday ranting about it. Sounds like a good thing.

The tax break is different to what you’re thinking of, it’s your subs, so over and above the FREA.

Whilst one or two can freeload from everyone else being in the union, take it to extremes. If no one at all was a member, it would fold and the company would have free rein to do whatever it fancies with you. Why would anyone voluntarily opt into such an environment? Answer, they wouldn’t, so make sure it doesn’t happen by being in the union!

Starting with deltahotel's very good Post you have been given many good reasons here, so join!!

I was a rep in my first airline which got on very well with BALPA and we both worked to helping each other.

I initially joined before getting into the 'airline world' and was convinced by hearing (from a rep involved in such help) how BALPA gives very good personal help if you are ever involved in an accident, (While I was a rep, we had an accident in the airline, fortunately fairly minor, but within hours a 'specialist' BALPA representative was on site to assist the crew.) This could be very important if you are involved in an accident in a country that has a 'less than friendly' legal system for dealing with accidents -- you could get your entire career's worth of subs in value from help if you are unfortunate to end up in the worst sort of situation.

But on the 'positive' side, there are sooo many 'perks' that go along with the Pilots Association side of BALPA as well as the union side -- join!!

Most pilots are BALPA members at the UK charter company I work for.
Over the eleven years I’ve been here, union membership has been a small price to pay for healthy gains on Pay, T&C’s, Pension, roster stability protection etc.., that we wouldn’t have come anywhere near to, if it were left to management decisions alone.

But the key is, you need a majority uptake by the workforce in order for a Union to have any clout.
Also, as others have already alluded to, it’s tax deductible.

Exactly this. Besides the oobvious, such as leverage when negotiating T/C´s, imagine you have a mishap somewhere in another country. All of a sudden the local police shows up at your aircraft and takes you away.. Then it might be a career saver to have your pilot union+ IFALPA show up to have your back and protect your interest/ career. It is a no brainer, join your union!

The simple answer is, Yes, it is always worthwhile to join the union. Collectively, they will look after your Ts & Cs and, in times of trouble, will look after your interests. And I say that as an ex-flight manager. It is important always to try to achieve a benign balance of power between unions and management. If one or the other becomes too powerful the members are likely to suffer.

deltahotel and NoelEvans are correct.

If nothing else, you'll avoid the awkwardness when your colleague asks if you're a union member come negotiation time :ok:

If it was free, would you join? If the answer is yes, then join.

Just to set the record straight I was a member of Balpa from the day I got a half decent job after leaving the Services until I retired. There are some positive aspects of the Union ( and it is a ‘Union’ whatever its name may suggest ) and there are certainly some hard working Council members out there. That being said, most pilots of my acquaintance joined it as an expensive perceived insurance policy rather like joining the AA or RAC. They will only support you in a dispute if they feel they can win so their backing is by no means assured. If your Company is involved in a merger then if you fall on the wrong side of the divide then be prepared to be screwed. I’ve been gone too long to know if they are still referred to as the British Airways Line Pilots Association - I will let others decide on that one. A powerful Company Council can achieve a great deal as we saw in BA and BY in the past. There are some very militant individuals out there - being ex Mil I would never have gone on strike in a million years but there are those who would be on the picket lines behind a brazier in a moment. Would I join again if I had my time over…..maybe I would due to strength in numbers but go in with your eyes open. Oh and by the way, as soon as you retire you are expendable !

Correct. Non members will always be looked at askance by their colleagues...if such things matter to that individual. The ultimate issue (among others) is whether such non member will honor a picket line should things come to that. As a non member, the company may not agree that you can refuse to fly.

Or, maybe things are just different over there.

Wrt merger..one ex course mate got screwed because he wasnt on the airbus whilst another who was junior got into BA when he shouldn't.
BUT I have a mate who took the proverbial out of the masons and after a contretemps with an overzealous security guard was sacked. BALPA got involved and were calling a strike which led to his reinstatement but without the prospect of a command. A few years later he was asked why he was still in the right hand seat by a extremely talented pilot who had got into management without learning the handshake, discovering the truth he put him straight onto a command course.
There are two things I detest..being given a handshake as though the w*****rs think because of my ancestry or career I would join; secondly being told their religion ..again as it might impress me.

Nobody likes a freeloader. Got plenty of those in my company who come up with any and every excuse why they aren’t in the union and can’t afford the fees but can spend £100 on a night out with you no problem. BALPA aren’t perfect but it’s your best chance of getting an improvement in T&Cs.