Is BALPA an expensive union ? ALPA charging me 1.85% of my gross. Adds up !

Alternatively the IPA will do everything BALPA does, except negotiate T&Cs, for a fraction of the price...I think 27 quid regardless of your income.

In my experience BALPA have been less than useless. They love to talk about negotiations and collective bargaining but when the cost of being in BALPA is more than the pay rise that they negotiated it really isn't worth it.

Will the IPA send a 'pilot care' representative to see you in hospital after any serious incident and ensure that the media are kept off your back? I knew one of those BALPA (volunteer) representatives who did exactly that in two totally different incidents (and it was his examples that convinced me to join BALPA). Will the IPA arrange to have the local Pilot Association abroad have their legal team arrive at the police station to have you released from having to make a police statement directly following a major accident in another country that does not have the same air accident protocols that we have? That local Pilot Association arranged for those British pilots to be able to return to Britain before returning to provide their accident statement, with Pilot Association representation this time, a week later. (We were given full details of all of that aspect of that accident, that happened with another airline, at one of our monthly company council meetings -- the first time BALPA heard of the incident was when the foreign Pilot Association contacted BALPA saying that there had just been an incident involving a G-reg airliner and did any BALPA members need assistance? That was pre-mobile phone regular use and the incident had not yet been reported in the news.) We had a significant runway excursion incident in this country in our airline and the BALPA 'accident' rep was with the two pilots involved, both members, within a few of hours. (We also got all the details on that at our next company council meeting. I know both pilots involved.) Would the IPA have provided that assistance?

In one of those incidents that I have mentioned above, one of the pilots involved became known by name with the media on his back throughout while the other pilot's name is unknown even to many people who know a lot about that famous incident: one was not a BALPA member and used to scorn BALPA membership, the other was a BALPA member. It should b obvious which one is well known and which one is virtually 'unknown'! (That case, that I heard of first-hand from the BALPA 'rep' who had been directly involved on the very night of the incident, was what convinced me to join BALPA quite some time before I joined an airline.)

Also, Tim Lancaster, in his subsequent article on his incident in the BALPA Log, thanked BALPA for keeping the media off him and his family following the incident. Have that happen without being a member and you have to deal with the paparazzi on you doorstep every day.

Any one of those incidents that I have mentioned will make your entire career's BALPA subs well worth it. So, no "the IPA will NOT do everything BALPA does". Especially, as I have detailed above, when it really, really matters.

Just join BALPA!!

Wow - very unfortunate that you experienced an incident/accident twice, I assume the first time you were BALPA and the second time IPA? You may be the first person qualified to comment on your respective experiences and comparison between the two.

Or, do I suspect that actually you quite like the idea that the IPA is a fraction of the price and you've let the tail wag the dog in deciding BALPA are useless because that makes a better argument than 'i'm cheap and i'd rather others pay their BALPA fees instead'...

Where I am from non-union members should be allowed leave of absence during the time members are on strike. Without pay or right to any compensation from the union, but they can still assume this neutral position. My experience is that non-unions members have carried on regardless, cashing in on overtime payment. Quite unfortunate...

I neither know nor care. And when I was in BALPA I neither knew nor cared then either. And the poor unfortunate subjects of your stories probably didn't either. Why don't you give the IPA a bell and ask?

Having experienced the bad side of BALPA I chose to leave. I'm quite happy with the IPA who have supported me more than BALPA ever did. Oh, it's just a bonus that they're a lot cheaper. I would still have left BALPA if the IPA were more expensive to join. But, nice try.

Hi Chesty,

When you were a member of BALPA and dissatisfied, did you stand for election to your CC?
If so, were you elected and what positive change did you manage?
If not, have you managed to improve the Union from outside of it?

A union is only as strong as its membership is willing to be.
A Company Council is only as good as those willing to stand for election.

If you personify Selflessness, Integrity, Objectivity, Accountability, Openness, Honesty & Leadership, then you will make an excellent BALPA representative.

Your democratically elected union representatives negotiate pay, terms & conditions. They spend hours voluntarily representing their colleagues to improve scheduling, rostering and the vagaries of FRMS. They accompany colleagues when summoned to various types of meetings with management & HR.
They spend enormous amounts of time re-negotiating and improving policies.
They shine light on the failings of systems & departments ensuring senior management are aware of the people tasks are delegated to.
Bigger BALPA have managed to persuade the Inland Revenue to support the best Fixed Rate Expenses Allowance in any profession in the UK. If you receive holiday pay at your UK airline that was also won through an extraordinarily expensive legal action for all professional pilots in the UK.
BALPA has a number of ongoing campaigns. Work that the wider industry and the traveling public will benefit from.
These are just the tip of the iceberg.

Initially, BALPA membership will be 0.5% of basic. A year Later, 0.75%. A further year you'll settle on 1.0%.
Establish what the last pay deal was, each of its intricacies. Then find out what managements opening offer was.
Is BALPA membership worth it? Only you can decide.
The website is easy to find.

It is disappointing to hear that your Company Council has not been afforded the opportunity to speak to new joiners. However, I'm confident that if you are motivated to do so, you can track someone down who will offer you an informed perspective from your CC.

YES, of course!

Just compare conditions in unionized companies with non-unionized companies. There is a reason some companies fight unions to the bone - they don't do that for you as an employee.

In jobs where hundreds or thousands of employees do the exactly same job, collective bargaining is the only way to get a fair share of the profit your company is making. Since in such jobs you can't bring yourself ahead with individual effort or qualification, individual contract negotiations would always put you on the short end - since you are completely replacable.

No, not my cup of tea and I also have no interest in improving a union I hold in contempt and am not a member of.

​​​​​​​F- all.

Neither management nor the union are perfect. That is life! On whichever side you find yourself on, just get on with it and try to make it better.

Flex33, a very good response.

However, it appears that ...

... says it all.

I genuinely hope that he never ends up in any unfortunate situation one day when his colleague needs that help that he will not be getting.

Chances of needing that kind of help? Extremely slim.

Chances of BALPA screwing people over? Extremely high.

I'll take my chances.

By the way, how do you know I "won't be getting" any help? Can you see into the future?:rolleyes:

As someone who started in the EU, and is now in the US the difference is staggering. Regulations are way more anti union/labo(u)r in the US than in the EU, but EVERY airline in the US is 100% unionized, and union participation in other sectors in the US is much lower than in the EU. Was just on the SAS T/C on PJN, and apparently a junior FO starts at about E3300/month, going up to E10k/month for a super senior captain. First year FO pay in the US for any good company is at least E7500/month, with 12 year captain pay at least E22K/month, and WB 25 year pay probably around E50K/month. I know Southwest 737 captains that make E500/year working less than 15 days a month. The way the unions work here is called closed shop. You can elect to not join but will still have to pay 80%ish of the dues for the benefits you receive. In practice nobody does that so the union speaks for the whole group. And the union leaders are elected by that group. Compared to other sector non-union workers in the US, and non-union pilots in the EU our conditions are vastly better. I will let you draw your own conclusions.....

A non-aviation viewpoint, but with some experience in handling HR matters. How are the HR functions organised at your airline - is there a central function which applies policies or has it been delegated out to local management? If it's the latter, I'd definitely want union support - my experience is that this leads to inconsistency of approach and I've found TU reps have a better grasp of the companies policies than local management and - how shall I put it? - can help managers apply policies fairly....

hans,

I'll hate myself in the morning but I'll just add a bit of specific detail to your comments. I usually don't get involved in word games but for some reason I'm wading in here.

"Every" airline in the US is not 100% unionized. For example, at Delta the only unionized groups are the pilots and dispatchers...no one else (there have been several failed attempts to unionize the F/As). There may be others I can't recall off the top of my head.

And we don't have "closed" shops. That's, for the most part, prohibited by the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947. We have "agency shop" where being a card-carrying union member isn't required but a representation fee for non members is. And if I recall correctly, a refusal of a non member to pay this fee requires termination (I stand ready to be corrected on this but it's what I recall).

I'll mostly go back to minding my own business now.

No offense taken. I used the wrong word, did try to explain the representation fee, but did not do a great job. And I did not specifically say I was only talking about pilots.

Nobody needs a Union until the days comes when you need a Union. Then it's too late to join.

I’ve worked for an airline without union recognition and one with union recognition.

As a result I’d never want to work for an airline without it.

Regardless of which union represents you, not being a member means not having a say or a vote. A situation I would not want to tolerate especially if I intended to stay in the airline for a significant length of time.

As a pilot without union membership you are relying on your airline management to protect you in the event of an incident or accident. As a union member you have someone else to turn too.

I hope this helps.