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If this is true, it would be an opportunity for a very clean psychological study. for many valuable reasons. If anyone involved on a professional level could message me then maybe we could learn something that's beneficial for everyone?
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Yearly intake of 200+ pilots with 60 coming from klm flightschool.
We are short of crew due to many parttime request(in dutch law), retirement and fleet changes. KLM is without a doubt one of the best companies to work for. In the aviation and outside the aviation. There is really nothing negative i can say about klm. |
Yearly intake of 200+ pilots with 60 coming from klm flightschool.
We are short of crew due to many parttime request(in dutch law), retirement and fleet changes. KLM is without a doubt one of the best companies to work for. In the aviation and outside the aviation. There is really nothing negative i can say about klm. Except whine about nonsense stuff like business class food is bad, why didnt we get christmas card and other blablas |
Hank Moody hits the nail on the head. I can tell you as someone about as foreign as you can be it’s a great place to work. (Just learn Dutch, your life will be even better!)
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23 years to long haul command! Guessing it’s pretty good once you get there though…
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You also might want to be sure to want to live in Holland all your life, if the exit tax they plan to enforce become real, hitting unrealized capital gains, including weal estate, after you leave the country for good.
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Do you think other major European airlines will also have to do this, such as LH dropping the German requirement or AF the French?
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Originally Posted by dirk85
(Post 11802650)
You also might want to be sure to want to live in Holland all your life, if the exit tax they plan to enforce become real, hitting unrealized capital gains, including weal estate, after you leave the country for good.
Do not let this deter you from applying to KLM! Anyway, I am happy where I am but if I were (much) younger I would jump at this opportunity with KLM. My only slight issue is the question of what the future holds for KLM and their eco-unfriendly business model, but if you see how many Dutchy's are flocking to KLM at the moment, no one seems to care! |
Joining KLM-AF as a non-native would be a nightmare. I’ve met plenty of KLM-AF pilots & they couldn’t be further up their own ass.
As a foreigner you’d be like a third class outcast; behind cabin crew & passengers. The loyal KLM-AF folk will be along to defend; but quite literally none of them are non-natives joining this year so they won’t have a clue about what it’s like. |
To be fair, I think they realize their culture has to change within KLM. A few of the older folk might stille be a *bit* special, but there is a big influx of young pilots from diverse low cost backgrounds who have seen more of the world than just KLMblue. I hope some who have recently made the transition can shed some light on this, I'm basing this on my sparse interactions with KLM crew..
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Originally Posted by Rick2023
(Post 11802701)
Joining KLM-AF as a non-native would be a nightmare. I’ve met plenty of KLM-AF pilots & they couldn’t be further up their own ass.
As a foreigner you’d be like a third class outcast; behind cabin crew & passengers. The loyal KLM-AF folk will be along to defend; but quite literally none of them are non-natives joining this year so they won’t have a clue about what it’s like. yes Rick, we at AF/KLM are all horrible people. We are especially not nice to people whos name is Rick😂 You must be crazy wanting to join with those crazy low conditions |
Originally Posted by MerseyView
(Post 11802463)
That's correct if you are Dutch and living in Holland. All communication should be in English but it isn't, especially from the Dutch union. Start would most likely be KLM Cityhopper FO, rosters are varied but pairings that aim for commuting on working days are exhausting. The Management idea of Direct Entry long-haul FO has gone down like a lead balloon with the pilots so don't hold your breath about it happening anytime soon, if it does you won't be popular. Time to command in Cityhopper is very fast and will happen before a Mainline long haul FO position. 6 years to Mainline short haul Captain is best case scenario, historically it is generally longer. Cityhopper has a nice working environment, friendly crew, Just Culture and good support if you need it.
If you can live in Holland, it's great. Otherwise, you need to get a Mainline long-haul position, preferably part-time, ASAP. at klm there are 3400+ pilots. Of which there are 20/30 foreign colleagues( all great lads to fly with) but we cant espect from klm and the union to change to english. Also with this recruitment they expect successfully candidates to learn dutch on long term |
Originally Posted by Hank Moody
(Post 11802744)
at klm there are 3400+ pilots. Of which there are 20/30 foreign colleagues( all great lads to fly with) but we cant espect from klm and the union to change to english.
Your union has no problem with the English language by the way. |
If anyone joins an airline where English is not that countries first language (I’m thinking KLM, LH, AF, IB etc) then you would be a fool not to become fluent in that language very quickly.
To simply stick to English, with a few words of your hosts language, would be breathtakingly arrogant and entitled. It’s simple really, if you want to work for KLM, expect to be able to speak Dutch, regardless of the non-Dutch requirements. If you think that the Dutch are arrogant, and some are (just like Brits etc), it will be way worse on the flight deck or crew bus when they are all speaking Dutch and you can’t or won’t join in the conversation. |
Absolutely concur with having to learn Dutch. Most of them learn English better than native Brits.
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Originally Posted by PENKO
(Post 11802826)
Well, you’ll have to if you actively recruit non-Dutch speakers. Out of necessity and out of courtesy. Is this not precisely the attitude that is referred to above?
Talking about having an attitude... |
So to anyone who can’t speak Dutch; you have been warned. This is the awesome attitude you’ll face from the current lot even before you join such a warm & welcoming work environment.
LEARN DUTCH OR ELSE! Hilarious! :ok: |
If they can make arrangements in the manuals to include women, who are typically 5-7 % of the pilot workforce, you can also send English e-mails to expatriate crew within an airline.
The Dutch are mot really good at including foreigners in a conversation and switching to English out of courtesy. I've seen it happen many times. Not the best place to be if you're an expat, unless you live in a large city centre. I say all this being a Dutch native. |
Guys.... No one is forcing you to apply to KLM. The terms and conditions are clearly written in the application form. If you don't like it, you don't have to apply. I personally think that even without this condition, a rational thinking pilot should learn the basics of the local language in such a homogeneous environment. I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later the company itself will offer Dutch courses.
As written above, and I am not Dutch, this is a perfect opportunity to anybody who is willing to move to Holland and wanna join a proper working airline with a stable union. Please, keep this thread for those willing to join, not as a list of subjective factors why not. |
Originally Posted by Hank Moody
(Post 11802735)
yes Rick, we at AF/KLM are all horrible people. We are especially not nice to people whos name is Rick😂
You must be crazy wanting to join with those crazy low conditions Someone wanting to join any airline should be allowed to see/hear/read the pros & cons of said airline. For example; Pro - KLM has probably the best contract in Europe. Con - the attitude from some of the crew is demonstrated suitably by some of the above posts. Don’t need to add anything to that… |
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