Career Advice - LH or SH?
 

Hi everyone, just after some career advice from a mix of people with different experience as I don't know many ex or current long haul people. I know people will tell me it all depends what I want out of life and a career but at this stage I'm not sure exactly what at I want and I want to think closely about the options I am considering.

I am a current 737 FO with about 1200hrs on type, flying for J2 at a regional base. I feel well treated by the company and the lifestyle is working for me as a 20 something year old with no children yet. I will soon have the opportunity to leave if I want to, or I could stay and in 4-6 years time be looking at a command here. If I did that I'd like to look into training and various other roles in the future to keep the job interesting although I know that will add lifestyle complications too.

If I leave, the only realistic options in the UK are BA or VA. I wouldn't move to another SH operator as I'd rather stay where I am. Moving to either LH operator would probably mean living closer to Heathrow as I currently enjoy a 15 minute commute into work and a long commute could be a lifestyle issue, although I'm keen to hear the thoughts of those who work out of LHR. Another option is the ME but on the whole it seems that is not a long term career option for most. I do like the idea of seeing the world and flying the big machines but I wonder what living out a suitcase would actually be like in the long run, and how it would affect family life.

For me this boils down to, would I be missing out if I don't try to make a LH move? If so, I understand the earlier I move the better it will be eventually. Or is it a case of the grass is not always greener and a SH career, getting an early command and doing different roles after that also a good career option? I'd be grateful for views from people with either SH or LH experience and what they have gotten out of their careers.

I'll caveat by saying I don't fly LH so can't comment on the lifestyle etc, but if you're looking at joining BA the sooner the better in terms of seniority.

​​​​​You could give long haul a go at BA, review after 5 years, if you don't like it just bid for short haul. If by that point you've relocated to near LHR you could also bid for day trips.

Hi there,

You are young hence invest in your future. Move to a legacy like BA and climb the ladder, time is on on your side. Before you know it you’ll be on the a senior FO and hopefully one day a senior Capt. with all that follows. Sure it might take longer to get a LHS there than many LCC (honestly I don’t know how it works at BA tbh so I could be wrong on this) but in the long run you’ll have much more stability and diversity of operation than flying up and down Europe 5 days in a row.
My 2c.

I am of course biased, but I would say join BA and join ASAP.

BA at your age offers you the ability to do almost anything you want - long haul, ultra long haul OR the, IMHO, far more enjoyable multi sector hopping around Europe stuff. Even within the short haul you can do trips or day trips, take an early command or be a safe pair of hands senior FO who does purely the nightstops that they enjoy and commutes from somewhere warm. To me it is a no brainer as pretty much no matter what you want, BA can offer it. The only caveat of course is being within striking distance of LHR…

Have you thought of DHL?

I’ve been fortunate enough to have done both. LH beats SH every day of the week.

Join BA, get a taste of LH and if you don't like it, it's an easy move to the 320.

If you don't like BA's fairly unique version of SH and want the luxury of a regional base with a 15 minute commute, take the rating back to Jet2. You'd very possibly have 320 command time and you've lost nothing vs staying at Jet2 for the command. Training etc all still available to you.

If you stay at Jet2 and wish you'd given LH a go in 10 years time, it becomes a completely different decision to give up command and put yourself through being junior at BA at that stage of life, plus you've lost 10 years of seniority if you decide to stay.

There's a multitude of reasons to try LH, but if you think you might still be wondering about it 20 years from now, then you may as well crack on and give it a go. This industry can throw all sorts up but at the moment I can't see any barriers to you heading back the other way if you want to.

I've done both & would say that massively depends

Longhaul "especially in the sandpit" can be extremely fatiguing. Good longhaul is nice, but longhaul with min rest everywhere and 900hrs or more per year is terrible

If you don't want to stay in J2, i would definitely say BA is your best option by far. As everyone else has said, the sooner the better

I think for anyone in the early/mid twenties, take a seriously look and think about BA. The world really is your oyster. I’ve made the move in my mid thirties (just) and I suspect as time goes on my main feeling will be, if only I’d moved sooner. The large amount of predicted retirements in the next 5-7 years, all the sounds are recruitment will be going fairly fast for the foreseeable.

Living close to your base is a huge bonus compared to many who have a long slog to work. I worked for an ex holiday company and did mixed fleet flying from UK to the usual 'charter' holiday destinations. The mix was super, slightly varied LH contracts varied the destinations and I thoroughly enjoyed all the regular Caribbean work we did. SH on a 321 could be up to 6 hrs + with stopovers, so African sun in winter. Mixed fleet, 320/330, is probably the best option if you foresee that on the J2 horizon, the days of BA 75/76 are long gone so there is not much choice any more. I think that a life time of SH at your age would be quite tedious, so maybe I would plump for the BA LH, but keep an ear open for any developments at J2. As others have said, if you get LH at BA, I suspect it is easy to revert to SH. Enjoy your time, I had a ball despite the great deal of moaning that you hear!

You don't join LH for the flying, it's all about the lifestyle..

Long Haul flying allows you to see the world (rather than just an airport) but once you've flown 'the big jets' it really is just another aircraft and it also comes with many negatives such as ie Jetlag, fatigue, away from family etc etc... Having said that, I've been LH for 22 years and couldn't see myself going back to SH unless I needed to.

It's a personal choice and certainly no better/worse or right/wrong with LH vs SH, but do your research and make informed decisions rather than just wanting to fly a bigger aircraft etc.

I've done legacy carrier LH and SH - agree with the earlier post, LH every time. I find a 14-18 hour, 1 sector day with 4 pilots far less fatiguing than a 12 hour, 4-5 sector SH day.

Agreed that it depends. I wouldn’t want to be flying 900 hrs a year either. At my current job, LH FO is a longer wait than SH CA.

LH isn’t for everyone (nor is SH), but the quality of life improvement cannot be overstated.

Ideally the OP would be somewhere where he/she can try both kinds of flying. J2 is SH only, and VIrgin is LH only. BA seems the easy choice.

Best is SH with 3/4/5 days trips, or LH. Both of which you can do if you join a Legacy. I would strongly advise to avoid single days of 4 sectors.
Enjoy

Thanks everyone for your replies so far, I really appreciate all the insight. Someone mentioned DHL which is a good idea as an alternative to working from LHR. I'll have a good think about that.

Seems like the majority agree BA is the best career choice. I have a question regarding the lifestyle, particularly for those with partners who work full time or those with young families. My girlfriend makes the point that often our days off do not align but at least I am home each night from work so we still see each other. If I was working LH, she may be working on my few days off between trips, and then I'd be off again so we would rarely see each other. How does this tend to play out in reality?

I'd like to stress that I'm not looking for a move because I don't like SH. I very much enjoy it, I fly about 600hrs a year, 2 sector days, and earn a good salary for a relatively junior FO, living close to my regional base. But I don't get to see any of the world in my current job and our contracts and benefits probably aren't as good as a senior BA pilot. I'm also very keen to get a command and the thought of waiting till I'm well into my 40s for a BA LH command is daunting (not that I would knock anyone who is in this position as it's undoubtedly a great career path - and I appreciate that a SH command would be available much earlier). Equally 35 years of flying to the canaries and back seems daunting, but I would hope I'd have other roles by that stage. This is why I find the decision hard to make, if I was at RYR or Wizz perhaps it would be a lot easier to make the jump. Very much a first world problem which I am fortunate to have.

Still very interested in hearing some more views so thanks again to everyone contributing.

In today’s world I would say LH all the way.

Think about the craziness of not having separate FTLs for short-medium and Long Haul ops.

On LH (the real one not a mix like in EK or so) with 3 or 4 trips a month you end up with 80/90 hours and 13/14 days off. Yes jet lag can be a factor but personally I believe it is way less tiring than flying 5 or 6 days in a row for a LCC when you start day 1 with a 3 am wake up call and en on day 6 with a 2 am checkout. That is jet lag too.
On LH as long as you take enough time to rest and only go out on layover when you have recovered than it becomes really smooth. A lot of people get fatigued because the end up in LAX, sleep 3 hours and go out. Of course you will end up fatigued and blame jet lag. If you do things properly it’s great. Plus working in Europe mainland you don’t land from a 10 hours LH flight at 7 am and go out for a Gulf turn around again at 1 am…

3 or 4 trips a month... have you seen any BA or VS rosters recently?

It's a very personal decision and you'll find advocates for both. The only way you'll really know is to try it. As others have pointed out... it's much easier to try LH early in your career than to move LHS SH to RHS LH later.

The other thing to bear in mind is that sooner or later you'll hit the point where flying an ILS/RNAV becomes pretty bloody boring. At that point it's fairly nice that the aircraft has taken you somewhere nice to explore and have a cold beer. Or that you've brought your partner/friend along sipping champagne in a comfy seat.

Personally I'd never go back to SH

Done both in two flag carriers - what suffers is not only your health but family relationships; after nesrly getting divorced for a second time I spent £300 a month (1980s) on telephone calls, got an au pair and took my wife along on trips to keep our marriage going. My health suffered and I eventually lost my license. Whilst conditions change fatigue is a huge problem and in my last year I had two months unpaid leave on top of another 47 days which we used for a month sailing holiday and normal home life.
SH was basically 5 on 3 off with early first day, 3 nights away and late last augmented by 4/2 and 6/3. Long haul was 8 days off a month and up to 17 day trips. Some of my mates did mixed which seemed better.
Short haul was fun flying but that was in the days of turning everything off and doing a split arse visual..long haul was system management with a flow of interesting pax in the cockpit to break the boredom of choosing from the first class menu.
Both short and long haul can be fun but as you get older you loose your resilience- many the nights I’ve spent on the loo or leaning over it.

You’re young so try it. With a family and children, command SH and go part time being home everyday. You will have a great work/life balance and your family will thank you for it.

Many LH people I know have been divorced, some more than once. That’s why I say try it now.

I’ve flown regional turboprops , 737s in the sandpit & long haul BA, and have been knackered in all 3 jobs. That said, compared to the others lifestyle at BA is very relaxed and undemanding. As well as (relative) job security, it offers opportunities to travel the globe and see places / do things that I’d never get to on holiday, and being able to fly loved-ones half way round the world in comfy seats is a very nice perk.

However… I am part time (like many colleagues) and lucky to be on a fleet that offers half-decent rosters for junior pilots. There are big variations within BA, and junior on the triple is not a nice place to be. Commuting can also be a challenge, and it’s not much fun hanging around at LHR waiting for a flight home when you’ve been up all night. You don’t mention where your regional J2 base is, but if it’s mostly 2 sector days I can make an educated guess ;). If I’m right, it’s also one of the busiest commuting routes in BA…

Personally I love LH, can manage the commute and wouldn’t want to go back to SH ever again, even if it meant being close to home. But as others have said, it’s not for everyone.

Feel free to PM me if you want any more gen. :ok:

The reality is that being junior on any fleet is a massive sacrifice to personal life. I’d say that long haul is more akin to if you get a run of lates at the LCC. You might be in your own bed every night but getting into it at 2-3am isn’t exactly quality time with your partner.

If you go long haul expect to work a trip that has you away over most of if not more than the entire weekend. The plus side to that is that if your partner’s work is somewhat flexible then it’s easy to take them on trips with you and much nicer being away somewhere for a couple days rather than on BA SH where you’ll still give up your weekends but for 12 hrs in a hotel in Newcastle instead of 48 hrs in Antigua. The downside is that it’s such a personal thing with how well your body can deal with jet lag and staying up all night and you’ll only know once you try it. BA are only hiring into the 777 for 2025, so expect a lot of trips to be 2-crew with no onboard rest whilst you’re junior. I’m a write off for the following 24-48 hrs after a trip, you just about recover and then it’s time to pop the nylon suit back on and do it all again.

You’re young so it shouldn’t cause too many issues. Once you start having a young family etc then best hope you have an extremely supportive partner. There’s a reason why this profession is a divorce magnet and these days it ain’t because Chantelle winked at you over your lager. Fatigue and constant tiredness changes your personality. It is testing to the most stable relationships.

It’s horses for courses but there’s a reason it’s a significantly longer time to command on long haul fleets than short haul. Those that have the choice, and have probably done both, tend to choose long haul.

Fatigue and jet lag might change your personality, but so does job dissatisfaction. The fact that you’re unsure enough to be asking the question probably means you should choose the airline that gives you the most options to suit your lifestyle - which will change as you go through your career.

Personal advice would be BA long haul with a part time bid in on day one - you’re only sacrificing the most highly taxed part of your salary and it’ll probably save your health as much as your friendships and relationships. Even at 75% you’re probably going to be earning more than your non-flying peers and not working nearly as much. The job isn’t half as mentally draining or fatiguing when you know you have that firebreak coming up every few weeks.

You’ll do the same amount of hours as you do now, probably still earn more money and have an abundance of free time spread out evenly across the year when you can use those staff travel perks.

Good luck.

I’ve done SH only, LH only and a mix.

When asked the same question on many occasions when flying, I said lean forward and look out. The picture is the same whether in a 321 or 380..

However, if it is LH it is either dark or the sun is coming up in your eyes. Get used to living at 30W in your head, just as your children and wife (if you have been at home enough to find one) get used to you not being there. Years later my Wife told me the LH only period was the most difficult for her.

SH from a regional base with a short commute; perfect. You get a chance to meet and have a family. You get to know those you work with and are not just a number. You get to know other people in the community. My Wife’s art teacher thought I was unemployed as she saw me regularly and at my Son’s primary school where I often picked up/dropped off, one mother exclaimed when I arrived in uniform “now I understand why Julie thought it strange you were a pirate!” The bottom line is being at home and being part of the community whilst still enjoying your flying. You do not help yourself with a long commute or being in a huge pool of pilots.

Living in London is expensive. My Son’s 2 bed flat would buy a 4 bed house with a meaningful garden elswhere. Sure you get to see many interesting places, but only where you are sent and New York for the 50th time is just New York…. Use that “spare” money and go where you want to.

There will no doubt be many here outraged by my position, but I’ve had a great career in aviation and most importantly a happy family life and am still married to the same woman 37 years on.

No matter what is said here, it will be your choice. Sure, you can go back to SH from LH, but you can’t go back to a broken home life.

Me

Thanks everyone for the latest replies. It's great for me to hear opinions from both sides of the fence. Commuting is something I'll never know whether it works for me or not until I try it, as I've never had to so far. But I can't say the idea of it appeals! That leads me onto the house prices anywhere near LHR compared to the North of England... but that's just how it is.

Sounds like from a lifestyle point of view, long haul and part time could be the way forward, IF it would work with family life. Therefore I think this is a decision I could only make with full backing of my partner, who at the moment is dubious; hence why I am doing the research.

Could anyone give me an idea of how many days off is common between trips? Or do you have a minimum number of days off at BA per month? I'd also be keen to find out what the sick pay/income protection benefit is if this is acceptable to ask for...

I will probably be in touch at some point with some more questions to those who have kindly offered to give me some more advice. Thanks again all.

If only it were that easy….in certain companies, a pilot on a 75% LH contract may take home the same money as a full timer SH pilot. Which would you choose now? 3 trips a month working 13-15 days or short haul blocks of work where you work 18-20 days? A chance to visit some of the exotic places in the world or flog yourself to death flying around Europe 4 times a day? At the end of the day, it’s horses for courses.

A chance to visit exotic places? Once you have done them 3 times , they are done. And the older you get..you will need to sleep. And just sleep. ( LH and ULR for 8 years).

I don’t think the long haul time to command at BA is just because of it being easier/more enjoyable. Yes it’s a factor but look at the pay scale. Top pay scales at BA LHS LH vs SH pulling in at least £30k more a year.
Ok I haven’t tried LH yet. I would argue the case and say definitely at BA SH, the night curfew is a god send on your body clock.

In the same breath SH for a whole career? IMO would get boring. Speaking to pilots who were 75/76 had a good gig going.

Look at it more from a philosophical standpoint: every twenty year old long haul cabin crew ‘sees the world’. I don’t envy them for that. Do you? Why would that be different as a pilot? What exactly do you fear you are missing?

If you really want to see the world, why not apply to Netjets or VistaJet?

I would go so far as to say, long haul significantly shortens your life expectancy and well being. It's boring flying, and in an airline, one doesn't generally get to 'see the world', just airports hub areas and same old same old eateries and/or drinking dens (unless you really crank up the fatigue by trekking into the cities and environs).

But, I do recommend getting it out of your system while you're young. Or a quality biz jet operator is a good idea, interesting off the beaten path layovers. At the end of the day, it's a job which pays the bills, and short haul is less deleterious on the health.

The important thing to note here is that, given nobody lives in the crew car park (or is supposed to!), absolutely everybody commutes to some extent or another. The only question is the method and distance of that commute and how manageable it is. The answer to that will be different for everybody.

With reference to the sun rising at 30W comment, I know this wasn’t the point being made but at the same time it’s amazing to me how many people do this job for a living and still do not realise the importance of investing in a decent blackout mask (cost about £20) and lie there attempting controlled rest with a Club mask on or even a First mask both of which block out the square root of F all light.

Back to the SH v LH debate I personally know of someone who has picked up an LAX on overtime next month, heavy out and heavy back, sector swapped the return flight three times and now has a 7 day trip they are taking their partner on. This is whole levels of different world kind of stuff when compared to the SH grind. I’m not going to pretend it’s easy to do or a frequent occurrence but that kind of thing is possible and an option that just doesn’t exist at the locos.

With regard to Long Haul and longevity I think the fundamental issue being missed here is the utterly horrendous lifestyle that accompanies these nights out of bed namely people scoffing meals at 3 in the morning and raiding the club kitchen throughout the night, consuming gallons of alcohol downroute etc etc. We’ve all seen the kind of shape some of the guys (and girls) are in, trying to shift the blame of increased mortality here wholly onto lack of sleep is being wilfully blinkered. There’ll be plenty of people who don’t indulge to the same extent who keep themselves in shape who aren’t suffering - and will not end up suffering - the same ill effects. None of this is to say that nights out of bed are a good thing for you because of course they aren’t. But let’s not ignore the elephant in the room.

Out of interest have you any actual data/evidence on your comment about long haul significantly reducing life expectancy? Have never seen any evidence of this but happy to be proved wrong. My own personal experience is my health has improved over last few years since going long haul (seen through lower blood pressure, better sleep lost few KG etc)..plus have much better quality of life and far less stress than the short haul days.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/wha...s-out-29816278

But is that really a perk? How often are you going to do that with a young family for example? Or even with a working partner?
I prefer to see my partner every day and every night of the week and then go on a relaxing mini-break on my four days off, to a destination of our own choosing…on staff travel of course.

“Why We Sleep” by Matthew Walker is a good read to start with. Everyone will manage things differently. Biological night owls will have an easier time than early risers.

So your question is Is it a perk to be effectively getting paid thousands in overtime to do a trip that regular people would be out of pocket by for the same amount?

With respect, unless you have kids then you need to do what’s right for you. If your partner is good for you then s/he will support you. Resentment isn’t the key to a happy relationship either.

The majority (not all) of people who have actually done LH and SH will say they’ve had a better all round quality of life on long haul. That’s mirrored in seniority lists in airlines that have the option of both.

Beware of people who are stuck in SH only airlines claiming that you’ll be divorced, broke and cancer ridden by 42 if you even consider long haul. Many of them are just trying to convince themselves.

Neither.

Best is medium range. 3-4 hour legs, return.

My wife hated it when when I was SH and would be very reluctant if I said I wanted to go back to that. Yes she works and we have youngish kids (and I do more school runs in a month than the EZY FO at the school).

But I can't emphasise enough that whether that lifestyle works for you is so dependent on a number of factors - where you live, what your partner is like, what your kids are like, how you sleep - out of cycle, in the bunk, in the seat, in a hotel room etc. As well as what attracted you to flying in the the first place

There is no one on this or any other forum that can tell you if it's right for you. Can only give heavily biased perspectives

On the topic of LH being bad for one's health, SH isn't a bed of roses either. Being home by lunch every day doesn't do my health any good if I had to wake up at 5 or 6am. Much rather do an all-night flight.

Working nights is bad for your health, that's a fact and there have been plenty studies done if you look for them. Whether LH is better than SH is totally subjective and I'd reccomend at least trying it. I've done BA SH for 5 years and really enjoyed it. Moved onto the triple a year ago and while the flying is more about systems management its good to experience the other side of the operation. Might move back to SH when my freeze is up or I might not but that's the beauty of working for a big firm, you can move to a job that suits your circumstances. Whatever you decide make the most of it.