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-   -   What shortage? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/653999-what-shortage.html)

bringbackthe80s 3rd August 2023 23:56

There is a shortage of experienced captains worldwide, a huge shortage in fact. Airlines are unable to expand and aircraft are on the ground, these are the facts as it is right now.
Now, to call this a pilot shortage, as always isn’t correct. Because it does not translate into a need for inexperienced first officers/cadets etc.. so, as long as we differentiate between these two categories than we can absolutely agree that yes, we have a big big shortage.

VariablePitchP 4th August 2023 06:17


Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s (Post 11478938)
There is a shortage of experienced captains worldwide, a huge shortage in fact. Airlines are unable to expand and aircraft are on the ground, these are the facts as it is right now.
Now, to call this a pilot shortage, as always isn’t correct. Because it does not translate into a need for inexperienced first officers/cadets etc.. so, as long as we differentiate between these two categories than we can absolutely agree that yes, we have a big big shortage.

Got any evidence of this? US? Absolutely. UK? Nope…

menekse 4th August 2023 07:38

some positions are reserved in the name of equity

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5b701d048.jpeg

bringbackthe80s 4th August 2023 10:23


Originally Posted by VariablePitchP (Post 11479051)
Got any evidence of this? US? Absolutely. UK? Nope…

No idea about the uk, but worldwide, asia, us and many other places, yes.

BTMS_OVHT 4th August 2023 10:56


Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s (Post 11479197)
No idea about the uk, but worldwide, asia, us and many other places, yes.

this thread is putting the finder on the pilot market in Europe....

plikee 4th August 2023 16:06


Originally Posted by VariablePitchP (Post 11479051)
Got any evidence of this? US? Absolutely. UK? Nope…

Seriously? Almost every UK airline that does DEC were hiring DEC 6 months ago. J2, Wizz, RYR, Lauda, even BA Euroflyer! The only one I can't recall was EZY.

AIMINGHIGH123 4th August 2023 16:31


Originally Posted by plikee (Post 11479338)
Seriously? Almost every UK airline that does DEC were hiring DEC 6 months ago. J2, Wizz, RYR, Lauda, even BA Euroflyer! The only one I can't recall was EZY.

^^ exactly this. Certainly 6 months ago in the UK airlines that do recruit DEC were trying. Ex former colleagues at Wizz UK said they were crying out for DEC for sure. RYR same. Many FOs at RYR not taking command moved on because of RYRs poor T&Cs in first 2 years as P1. I believe RYR have now removed the salary deduction and they all get the same. BA have so many going through courses this year. 300+ joined so far this year. That will continue into 2024 for sure.

VariablePitchP 4th August 2023 18:48


Originally Posted by plikee (Post 11479338)
Seriously? Almost every UK airline that does DEC were hiring DEC 6 months ago. J2, Wizz, RYR, Lauda, even BA Euroflyer! The only one I can't recall was EZY.

Aaaand not any more.

An actual shortage and they’d be hiring still and giving £50k joining bonuses.

Simply hiring people doesn’t mean there’s a particularly aggressive shortage, just the turn over of staff.

Biffsticksuperhero 5th August 2023 09:43


Originally Posted by VariablePitchP (Post 11479415)
Aaaand not any more.

An actual shortage and they’d be hiring still and giving £50k joining bonuses.

Simply hiring people doesn’t mean there’s a particularly aggressive shortage, just the turn over of staff.

The majors are beginning to sponsor people to fly. They’d only do that if they’re desperate.

corporal klinger 5th August 2023 09:52


Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s (Post 11478938)
There is a shortage of experienced captains worldwide, a huge shortage in fact. Airlines are unable to expand and aircraft are on the ground, these are the facts as it is right now.
Now, to call this a pilot shortage, as always isn’t correct. Because it does not translate into a need for inexperienced first officers/cadets etc.. so, as long as we differentiate between these two categories than we can absolutely agree that yes, we have a big big shortage.

Which airlines in Asia or Europe do have that "huge" and "big big" shortage of experienced captains?

menekse 5th August 2023 10:18


Originally Posted by Biffsticksuperhero (Post 11479699)
The majors are beginning to sponsor people to fly. They’d only do that if they’re desperate.

Do they also sponsor visas for UK?
Or license conversions?
UK companies have a limited pool of UK citizens
It's a different story than the rest of the Europe

Biffsticksuperhero 5th August 2023 10:39


Originally Posted by menekse (Post 11479715)
Do they also sponsor visas for UK?
Or license conversions?
UK companies have a limited pool of UK citizens
It's a different story than the rest of the Europe


yes they do. Look at virgin.

menekse 5th August 2023 10:50


Originally Posted by Biffsticksuperhero (Post 11479720)
yes they do. Look at virgin.

Hold a current UK Class One Medical and United Kingdom or European Union Flight Crew License (ATPL) issued by the UK CAA at the date of joining
not sure what the bold means
Also they ask at least 500 hours current on type, doesn't sound that they are desperate for pilots

Biffsticksuperhero 5th August 2023 10:56


Originally Posted by menekse (Post 11479724)
Hold a current UK Class One Medical and United Kingdom or European Union Flight Crew License (ATPL) issued by the UK CAA at the date of joining
not sure what the bold means
Also they ask at least 500 hours current on type, doesn't sound that they are desperate for pilots

the fact the UK is depleted of UK licensed pilots, they’re having to look further afield.

airlines who don’t normally take low houred guys are so and starting MPL schemes.

maybe your definitions of desperate is different to others.

They’re lowering the bar, they’d only do that if they had to.

menekse 5th August 2023 11:04


Originally Posted by Biffsticksuperhero (Post 11479726)
the fact the UK is depleted of UK licensed pilots, they’re having to look further afield.

airlines who don’t normally take low houred guys are so and starting MPL schemes.

maybe your definitions of desperate is different to others.

They’re lowering the bar, they’d only do that if they had to.

I am still not sure what they mean by European ATPL issued by the UK CAA at the date of joining.
Can I apply with my EASA ATPL which was not issued by UK CAA?
I don't know where the bar was before, 500 hours on type and current sounds fair

aerodestination 5th August 2023 11:51

Airlines not hiring might as well be a sign of a shortage. I know for sure that several airlines did not hire more people earlier this year because they simply had no instructors to train them, nor simulator capacity. A lot of airlines have shortages this summer but agressively hiring now would result in even bigger short term shortages because of the training.

My airline has already started hiring new direct entry FO with TR starting dates as early as september anticipating on shortages for 2024. Especially concidiring a couple of major airlines that will need a lot more people upcoming months resulting in an exodus for LOCOs.


AIMINGHIGH123 5th August 2023 17:04

Sorry I’m going to echo what others have said.

Defiantly a shortage of Captains, EU land not 100% sure. Uk definitely.

Virgin dropped to 500hrs on time for RHS. I mean that’s 1 year at RYR and off you go to long haul ops.

What is also the issue is training capacity. Only so many SIMs, so many trainers etc. They don’t have hundreds of SIMs just sat waiting.

There will never be mass shortage of entry pilots but certainly experienced.

Like I said 6-12 months ago in UK for anyone who had 737 or 320 time a lot opened up.
A mate of mine applied and went to 4 airlines/assessments in UK and a ME carrier.

Only 1 UK airline came back as a no. Never seen it like that before.

Have you actually gone for assessments/ had your CV looked at?

It’s one thing having experience but you still need to do homework even just applying. My aviation CV is tailored just to that. Compared to when I applied to jobs during COVID it’s completely different.

Do you have good experience?
Sorry to say the path you choose can dictate the airlines that are interested. I know a couple of guys from my flight school that went and got experience outside of Europe. It hasn’t helped them one bit, if anything made it harder for them.

I was once told yes take any flying job with the caveat of long term plan. Your first job can dictate to some degree where you will go in aviation.

menekse 5th August 2023 18:50


Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 (Post 11479937)
Sorry I’m going to echo what others have said.

Do you have good experience?
Sorry to say the path you choose can dictate the airlines that are interested. I know a couple of guys from my flight school that went and got experience outside of Europe. It hasn’t helped them one bit, if anything made it harder for them.

I was once told yes take any flying job with the caveat of long term plan. Your first job can dictate to some degree where you will go in aviation.

I left Air Force for a Gulfstream job opportunity in the desert
Had in mind to make some cash and return to Europe
I made a small fortune but I am still stuck in the desert
Sorry to say too, but it seems a P2F in a A320 or B737 operator gives you more chances for a job in Europe
In some cases knowing the right people is enough to get a job
HR people may think Jetstream and Gulfstream are pretty much the same airplane

Pilot2/b 6th August 2023 03:16

A lot of us UK skippers are now looking at part time options for S24.
The thought of another busy summer fills a lot of skippers with dread! (from our chats)
Shortage of experienced pilots is approaching…

Bravo Zulu 6th August 2023 11:45

One UK airline is asking Captains back that had previously been paid off to retire early!

Most likely as they cant train enough over winter - new pilots and seat swaps etc


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