BA Euroflyer
 

Hi

Does anyone know what the BA Euroflyer selection process entails?

Is it the same as BA mainline?

Thanks

Same torturous experience - only to end up on £15k less than your colleagues up the road on the Golden Runways - if you're successful, that is. You could eventually find yourself up at Heathrow by choice after a few years and ultimately you're a British Airways pilot hence the same assessment process.

That said, you'll be assessed by EF staff and they're an extremely friendly bunch, so the experience will be slightly more palatable.

Good luck. I Think there's been some subtle changes to the process but somebody who's been through it recently will hopefully post the details.

Join BA. Had you said you were 42, kids, 2500 hours and getting ready for command I’d have said no.

Seems a no brainer where you are. So what if it takes you 5/6 years to get to the 787/350, you’re now only early 30s..! Of your 40 year career, you’ll have done 39 at BA and 1 at Ryanair, that’s hardly leaving it too late. They all talk about seniority, you seem to be in a position to get to the top from where you are.

Training? Meh, you’ve got one type rating, that’s the hard bit. The 320 is a video game, super easy to fly, wouldn’t even consider that as a factor to be honest.

What are the EF terms for FO? Rumour has it they’re getting absolutely nobody turning up except Wizz crews and the odd EZY.

is it that bad?

Look up the "sunk cost fallacy" - don't stay where you are because of what you've invested into it. Take the best option looking forward.

As others have said - 5/4 is great and you may well miss it. But as you are young (and without family yet?) then joining the BA MSL now is a good choice, as you can do your most junior years while you are more flexible.
Long Haul is something you're never going to get with FR. Nor is crew catering, aircraft variety, night stops etc. But I understand FR pays much more than BA, certainly in the first decade which is where it matters most.
The work of another type rating wouldn't bother me... but I would personally like to get 1000hrs in any type to feel like I understand it. Having said that, if you are just applying now, it could well be many months to go through the selection process and get your EF start date, so you may feel like you've done your time by then.

good luck with your decision. For reference, I joined BA (straight onto LH) just when people would have told me not to bother - I was a very well paid SH captain, ~40yo, wife+kids to support. But LH had always been my dream, and though a big drop in pay, i still live the same lifestyle as I've always been pretty frugal 😆 I'm very happy with my decision - and if I wasn't then I'd reverse it.

I think others have already offered you very good advice I’d just add this : you might want to factor in the possibility of BA deciding to charge successful candidates up front for an Airbus TR in any future campaigns.

(I’m not aware of any plans for them to do so, but the way things are going it wouldn’t be a huge surprise !)

Just be aware that traditionally LGW - LHR moves have been "subject to the needs of the service BA". People who have had valid, accepted bids onto LHR fleets have had them delayed and even cancelled as their position at Gatwick couldn't be "backfilled". I believe the same is true of EF, although I haven't checked the scheduling agreement so can't say for certain.

I'd check that contract carefully if I were you. Traditionally Gatwick was the hidden gem at BA, probably because it was practically ignored by waterside - a double edged sword as we saw in 2020.

You would probably be frozen for 5 years before moving to LHR. But aviation is fluid and 5 years is just a guide line.

You should definitely consider BA.

I know loads of guys at BA from all ages. Some even joined late 40s. If you’re from SE from all the info IMO it’s the best gig.
You have options. SH LH. Opportunity to go part time, adjust your roster etc. I’m with Blue and yellow and honestly they have messed up big time.
Ok you can get fast command but wake up people. The pay is not amazing for Captain.
RYR First year Captain £91500. Second year £98250.
Then £105k. Ok so I haven’t added sector etc.
RYR say Captains earn £136k but:

Allowance £6k
Annual Leave £3kish
Sector pay 850 hrs £14kish
Pension £8k.

These figures are added on top of basic.

Don’t forget out of this you have to pay LOL, Uniform, Company IDs, CAA/IAA fees etc etc Food, tea, coffee, ok we get free water now. Well done what an achievement.

Make contacts with guys/gals in BA. Ask them directly. I was always skeptical but starting adding it all together and it is a very good option. Small things add up.
RYR 5 on 4 off is the only good thing. From comparing rosters yes RYR actually have more days off over the year but man when you’re working 12 hr duties are pretty standard.

As White Van said: Look forward,10 years minimum!!!

interesting numbers Aiminghigh, I've not actually seen the reality at FR.
For reference so the OP can compare, in BA to equal that FR Y3 Capt package (142k including pension and all allowances/flight pay etc) you are around 10 years in the company and a junior Airbus captain.

Again, best of luck with your decision - weigh it all up, realise that you can't know everything, and try not to get mentally caught in golden handcuffs! 😉

Exactly WVD.

Captains say to me take home is around £6k-£6.5k.

The BA pension is very good. I don’t know any company that actually adds it into your earnings except RYR.

Even as FO at BA I know guys who haven’t been far off Captain salary, that is at LHR. Ok not consistently throughout the year and they did overtime for it but they showed me you get the right trip on SH at overtime rate and man you can get some serious ££££.

Like you said money isn’t everything. Having options in this career keeps it interesting. IMO.

Just to add to what others have added, forget the 30K this second.

You could have spent 500 million, utterly meaningless. The money is gone, it’s totally irrelevant.

The only question now is, if you had both job offers in front of you, which would you now take? If FR, stay, valid outcome. If BA, go.

A320LGW - remember 'continuation bias' from Human Factors...

I fully understand the mentality of where you are coming from, but if I was you I'd be off to EF. Better sooner rather than later.

That's a new one on me - but the "sunk cost fallacy" seems fitting.

Hi all..

chancing the subject...
BA Euroflyer OR Vueling seem to be the recipients of the new B737 Max(del. from 2023)in order by IAG

any news?
thks

To expand, top 10% in the right seat on the 320 at Heathrow is currently at about pay point 9. Top 10% in the right seat on the 777 is something more like pay point 20 (perhaps higher). Captain I flew with the other day on the 320 is about 50% on that list at pay point 17, and still a couple of years off a long haul command. The most junior long haul captains are still around pay point 20. Part time is the only way for them to avoid an absolute shafting every month.

Anyone joining as a long haul FO is going to be junior for a very long time. Relative seniority moves much quicker on short haul, and when you do eventually go long haul you’ll jump over any DEPs who joined on that fleet after your start date. Ultimately, if you want to join BA then the sooner the better. As recruitment either stagnates or accelerates, a few months’ difference in start date can mean years of difference in getting a particular fleet/seat.

Am not sure what vibe you are talking about but you dont get many leave legacy for LCC, the vibe on LH fleet at mainline is very good, cant comment on SH though.

if you’re in the same position as the poster, then how on earth do you know what the “Vibe” is like at a Legacy?

Most likely from Ryanair captains that also have no idea what the "vibe" is like at a legacy. I'd imagine the same people that say don't do long haul, because jetlag from four trips a month is far worse than getting up at 3:30am five days a week - having never done long haul.

To be honest, if you're in your mid-20s on low hours and making your career choices based on perceived "vibe", you're better off staying in Ryanair.

It all depends on what you want in life , I consider myself lucky in a way as I have done LH for a number of years and have decided it’s not for me anymore and have bitten the bullet to leave a legacy to go to a low cost holiday company , which assuming I get a command one day will give me more money over the rest of my career.
It’s not as simple as saying why would you stay at Ryanair and not go to BA ?????
maybe people want more money and operate from a nice easy regional base ? Or don’t care about boasting who they work for … just my thoughts

Those immense learning opportunities you mention are available to you at BA too, not just Ryanair. Your TR won’t be wasted - it’s not just about learning to fly a 737, many of the skills you acquired during your TR will be transferable to any other flightdeck.

As others have said, you need get over this “legacy” “us & them” mentality. Ask yourself where you want to be in 5-10 years, what you want out of flying, etc. That should inform your decision making.

For instance, if quick command is what you want over anything else, BA will not really give you that (maybe Euroflyer would I don’t know …)

If you’re able to wait for command and in the meantime enjoy seeing Europe, the world and flying different types of aircraft - well I would suggest Ryanair/low cost isn’t where it’s at.

Be honest with yourself, know what you really want and what can wait, and make an objective decision . Have many people have gone from Ryanair to BA ? How did it work out for them ? You could take that into consideration as evidence !

But don’t base decisions based on what you or others “think” it’s like.

Exactly it depends what you want!!!
I am pushing 40. I still see BA as a great option. For me it’s the flexibility. LH/SH, you get options for part time, loads of other benefits. At the Irish LCC I mean you have to pay for everything yourself. Then they add that it your pay. £65k a year for STN FO. No it’s not. It’s more like £55k on what would be a normal job spec. BA Euroflyer £65k plus the 15% pension plus they pay for your medicals etc.
Compared to LHR yes Euro is a fair chunk less nearly £20k however you’re not doing trips spending money in hotels etc.

I have seen my mates pay at mainline and man he’s not far off first year captains at RYR.
Even at 40 can I see myself doing SH only for another 25 years? No.
Mid 20s can you see yourself doing SH for 40 years? Ok maybe you go into training.

PS. To add look how badly RYR treated crew during COVID. Speak to main who went through it and it was horrible. Yes BA got rid of some. RYR didn’t but paid nothing in some cases. Let the pilots claim from governments and only just reinstated pay when managers got it 18 months ago. That’s why 1000 are working notices.

On this note location is also a factor. Those living up north can’t really relocate to LGW on the terms offered by EF but 65-70k at RYR up in MAN or Scotland will go much further. Commuting to LGW is almost impossible whereas to LHR becomes a little easier.

Euroflyer earns 65k? I saw the offer that was in 2021 (so maybe they improved it) but based on 900h a year the most a y1 FO could earn was approximately £59k gross all up (nice pension on top is always good)

That is less money than Wizz in LGW and at least there you can get a Fixed 6/4 roster most of the year. And if you do 900 at wizz you’ll probably earn around 70k gross (although the pension is currently beyond terrible but rumours are it’s being made competitive due to retention becoming a serious issue)

Not sure what it was 2021 Basic at Euroflyer is £49k. Then flight pay makes it £65k can’t remember if that was based on 900hrs. Looking at hard figures yes not much in it between other carriers based out of LGW. Look at whole package though. Long term opportunities, pension, staff travel, etc.

Did anyone else get an email from Recruitment reminding them they can use up to 300 words for one of the questions? I'm confused. Mine is about that already.

Cheers for the info!

Euroflyer Assessment
 

Would be extremely grateful if anyone has any insight into the assessment process for Euroflyer - think it’s been asked previously in the thread but not covered.
Appreciate it can be delicate posting publicly so would appreciate a PM if more suitable.

Thanks very much in advance 👍🏻

That was probably me - I claimed it was £8k. I took a paye calculator and plugged in: (current at Oct 2022) Capt PP34 salary less 6% pension less 4% covid paycut plus 800hrs flight pay and got £8160/month.

Now we've agreed to end covid pay cuts from Jan and return the pay rise that was agreed before covid. This is all complete from April 2023. Plugging the same numbers (salary, 800hrs flight pay, -6% pension) from April 2023 gives £9280/ month.

Euro flyer Salary
 

Hi. Does anyone know if the advertised salary for the DEC at euroflyer is basic gross or does it include expected average allowances??

which advertised salary? If it's the £104k I've heard that includes the allowances.
IIRC the BAEF Capt scale starts at £81.8k basic plus £20/flt hr plus £2.5/duty hr. Basic increases by £1.5k per PP until PP12 at £98.3k.

Thanks, that’s what I thought it might be. It wasn’t very clear in the job advertisement.

I don't disagree with you and imo (for what it's worth) I think joining BA in the early 20s is the best move for most pilots.
Regarding the salary, the right thing would be to calculate for the entire career.
Let say OP is 25 and earns 3000£/month. In 3 years he'll upgrade to CPT and will get 6000£/month. Throw in LTC/TRI if that's on your mind.
Long story short, you set up two scenarios in excel, adding 40 values (25 - 65 yo) and summing it all up. I'm pretty sure FR will get way on top. Now you can add cost of lol, meals, teabags, uniforms, etc, etc. Depending how much time one is willing to spend, one can add pension (bring them to comparable level/contributions), train discounts - if applicable and so on.
Next step, take the difference, /40/12 - you see what the avg difference a month. This is pure maths, as objective as it gets.
Whatever it is, 50£ or 2000£ - now you can subjectively decide what you prefer.
"I'll get on avg 800£/month more at BA/FR, but I'll get 5/4 roster (or LH flights), etc, etc, etc."

The Euroflyer gig isn’t the best in terms of £££. Having seen the rosters they look lighter than RYR couple of days extra work over a month average. Hours at work looked less. Euroflyer is quicker upgrade than at mainline. I know a few captains joined BA back in 2018, redundant 2020 back at BA A320 LHS out of LGW. They had 0 A320 hours experience.
I don’t know anyone well enough at Euroflyer to ask them to show me a payslip.
A320 LHR and a close mate of mine takes home £4200 minimum year 2. I said somewhere else here he bagged an overtime trip that added £2k on to that!!! 40hrs of which he was sat by a pool!!! Not bad if you ask me.

10 years time even as LHR FO on current BA deal what it’s going to be £90ishk basic plus £15-20k extras.

At Euroflyer of course less but decide to move to LH and you will slide to that.

A final benefit is you can take your contract to a bank and get a decent mortgage. RYR Bluesky/STORM what ever they are dishing out now say you are employed on a 3 year contract. Jokers.

5 on 4 off is RYR only trump card. Yes it’s amazing to plan that far in advance but the rest is a joke.

These figures subject to change. BA it’s £3k a year pay rise.
RYR I do think there will be a pay rise this year. Possibly a big one. Will that stop people leaving? Not really. Will there be another pay cut? Possibly.

What’s the roster like at Euroflyer? Thx.

Can anybody explain the necessity to hire DEC’s? I’d imagine there would be FO’s that meet the experience requirements for in house upgrades.

Secondly, if one were to join as a DEC, is there a realistic chance of moving to LHR onto the 320 that side? Or is it still a better option to apply for a DEP at LHR and wait for command?

There are plenty of FOs who could take an EF command but very few are bidding to do so because of lesser contract at EF, perceived less job security, and a long "freeze" (years before getting back to LHR). Because there are so few willing internal transfers, they need to hire DEC.

No one quite knows how the move to LHR will work but my best guess is that after 6 year freeze is finished you'll be able to go across. It might well be as FO though as I believe the time to command at LHR is above 6 years.

By taking DEC at EF you'll be earning more than a DEP at LHR for those 6 years so that's a decent option. Then go across either as soon as you can (probably 6 years), or wait a bit longer to go across keeping your LHS.
Just be aware of the negatives before committing.

Hello all.

I saw also the advert for EF as DEC. They are advertising min 105 000£ the first year, is that the basic only and you can do more with overtime ? Like 10/15 ? If someone got the details, please ? Because if I compare to direct entry with jet2, 105 only seems light.
They speak about 12 years salary increase, I heard 3000£ extra a year ? I m right ?

An other question for the pilot at BA EF, in your SOP, can you disconnect autopilot / ATH and fly manually? FD ? Raw data ? Visual approach ? Maybe it seems silly, but I m trying to see what is company culture. Thank you.

Capt scale starts at £81.8k basic plus £20/flt hr plus £2.5/duty hr. Basic increases by £1.5k per PP until PP12 at £98.3k.
Working a day off gets you an extra £457 gross.

yes it is less money than much of the competition. But comes with the advantage of taking your number on the BA MSL.

And I thought the £600 for a day off payment at easyjet wasn’t great…

Agreed about getting your point on the MSL. If I were LGW based at easy in my mid 30’s.. I’d be very tempted by DEC. Unfortunately I’m only one of those things.