What is the EF roster pattern like?

NTR DEC

Out of interest, anyone who has joined EF as NTR DEC care to share their experience so far?

Hi everyone!

anybody willing to share their experience for DEC rated interview? Also via PM if You wish. Many thanks!

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Hi,

This may have been asked before, but what is the actual remuneration for DEC in Euroflyer in pounds, shillings and pence? I had a look at PPJN but I am not sure if that is accurate.

Thank you, just considering a few options at the moment.

From 1 Jan 2025
£106,852/yr basic. Then take 6%/15.6% pension.
increases £1687/yr for 12 pay points
£2.93/hr subsistance fully taxable
£27.04/hr flight pay

pension appears to be different on latest BAEF DEC ad…. Enrolled at 2% employee contributions and 7% employer with an option to increase. ??

Also, confirmation of a fixed roster for pilots at BAEF from November. Anyone care to share what the pattern will be? TIA

I think it’s worded fairly poorly on the website. 2% employee 7% employer is what you get enrolled on automatically at BA, but if you increase your contribution to 6% you’ll get the full 15% from the company. Not sure why they wouldn’t make that point clear as it’s one of the main benefits!

Does anyone have any information on pay structure at Euroflyer?
There's been some mention of Subsistence Pay, Flying Pay, Holiday Pay, WDO/RDW Pay and Per Diems - does anyone have any idea how they are paid? The Bases seem awfully low for DEC and trying to do the maths on it.

Also some references to the famous Fixed Pattern - what's it going to be?

DEC numbers
103.7k Basic + 1.6k per year to 12 years. Pension 6%/15.6% on basic.
26.25/hr flight pay
26.25 holiday pay (per day?)
2.84/duty hr subsistance.
551 payment for working day off. x1.2 for weekend

Goes up by 3% on 1st Jan.

That pay is pitiful really! Some other airlines pay SFOs (or equivalent) more than that. It seems BA played a blinder dividing the workforce. Hopefully T&Cs improve over the coming years.

What is staff retention like? Presumably most move to mainline ASAP (if that's how it works)?

Thanks WBV, know you posted earlier but checking if anything had changed. The flight pay, is that per Block Hour I guess, as opposed to Duty Hour or Time Away From Base?

Those numbers are current. Yes flight pay is per block hour (I think it's planned block hour but don't quote me) and subsistance is time away from base.

UKcrowpilot, im genuinely interested where you can get more than that as an SFO in the uk... I'm an SFO with BA longhaul and I'm well below those figures!

I think TUI will be paying >100k for their 'CR' FOs from next year. I don't think J2 are a million miles off that either? Outside of the UK, Euroflyer is a long way behind other European national flag carriers if you're lucky enough to be able to get a job with them.

It seems 30-40k down on what LHS are commanding in most airlines in the UK. It's just a shame really - I'm just hoping the US/ME salaries will cause enough pilot demand in the UK to push everything up..... eventually..... maybe..... hopefully!

Really?

Im only year 2 SH and won’t be far off LHS Euroflyer numbers come April.
excluding pension obviously.

Yep. Y1 BAEF DEC at 800hrs and say 1200hrs tafb would be 103,700 + 800x26.25 + 1200x2.84 = 128.1k

I'm PP6 LH at around 800hrs flight pay and 2400hrs tafb for the year. 84,663 + 800x18 + 2400x4.86 = 110.7k

If you are PP2 SH I'd imagine something like
73,247 + 800x18 + 2000x4.86 = 97.4k

Do the numbers you are working with include a bit of overtime? I've compared basic contracts here to keep ot as apples-to-apples as possible. Anything else I've missed?

Also for clarity, I'm really not saying anything is a good or a bad deal here. I just believe that knowing the details helps ppruners make informed decisions before signing a contract.

White Van Driver, thank you for the informative messages!

If someone would join BAEF as a DEC, when would you be able to end up on mainline or LH rightseat?

thanks!

you would be on the master seniority list, and thats normally around 5 or 6 years to get seniority for RHS LH.
I can't recall what the engagement freeze is at BAEF but at mainline it's 5 years. I believe in years past they've held gatwick pilots there due to shortage of crew but it remains to be seen under this new iteration as they are still in the engagement freeze so no-one has done it.

In terms of moving to LHR on A320, seniority wise you could have command there straight away under last years bid result, but again I presume a move is not permitted until engagement freeze is done. Also be mindful that it's less money up at LHR... as a comparison to what I had above LHR PP1 A320 capt is around
95,081 + 800x18 + 2000x4.86 = 119.2k
So even of they let you go straight up to LHR you'd be on around 9k less (this would wash out over time as the pay progression is £1k per year quicker at LHR than LGW).

Yes fair enough if you’re just working on basic contracts.
Ok I have included overtime. The way SH roster is planned I just pick up trips with higher credit on days I’m already working. Can get 5-10hr NCP a month just by doing this.
Difference between £110k and £128k is only £500 a month. You probably taking home the same or more with certain trips.

If including overtime in the figures, it’s been available at BAEF pretty much every day for captains this summer. Rate has been 1.5x on weekdays and 2.0x on weekends which can get doubled again for reports before 6am or clearing after midnight if the adjacent day was also an OFF

I’d be genuinely interested to know how anyone could possibly squeeze additional work into the rosters I’ve seen at EF. Seems to be routinely 6 days on, earlies then lates, 2 or very occasionally 3 days off. Fatigue aside I can’t imagine it’s legally possible to do much overtime?

The (slightly) higher pay at EF compared to the junior pay levels at Heathrow are a bit misleading. Compare your days off (10 at EF?) vs a Heathrow pilot (12-14?). Any Heathrow pilot working 2-4 days overtime would easily beat the take home of an EF skipper.

If you’re working harder for your salary, is it really a better salary?

Very good point about the days off, i had not considered that. At minimum credit (4.5hrs/day) a LHR A320 pilot will need around 19 days at work for a normal cap month. If a few higher credit days are thrown in then the days worked will reduce. Is the work at BAEF highly seasonal?

I'm well aware we don't want this to descend into a LHR vs LGW debate so in the spirit of bringing it back to LGW I've added the fixed pattern roster which is ONLY available at BAEF not at mainline. I believe this has been signed off by BALPA, maybe someone can confirm when it comes into effect and whether there are conditions to starting on it or will all pilots be on it as standard?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d670671025.jpg

Well not sure if it’s the same at Euroflyer but at mainline I try not to work extra days unless it’s a good trip.
I just drop a low credit trip for higher credit and get the extra credit at overtime rate. I see it that if I’m coming into work anyway I will just trade to a longer day. Easily get 5hrs overtime rate doing this with a best of 14 hrs working no extra days. (Has to be no more than 2 sectors, too much hard work after that).

Is it correct that the Euroflyer roster is done on aims and not ibid, so there is no credit/cap as such? Or is it the same as at mainline now?

Does anyone know the gap between interviews and actual start dates for BA / Euroflyer, I've heard rumours just curious for someone who's non-rated with 500H 737.

Cheers

Good gen WVD thank you. What's an FRD? A duty can be rostered into the start of that day?

Not sure, all I know is what's written at the bottom of the chart.

Fixed Rest Day I suspect. Essentially a day off but via a means by which BA will never have to reimburse you if it is disrupted in any way (no returned day off, no payment etc). Suspect you’d also be compelled to operate into it if delayed.

FACoff with respect to legally possible question it has to fit into the recurrent extended recovery rest regulations which in the old days was called days off. From report at day 1 you can work 168hrs <7 x 24> that includes FDP, Duty, rest at home or hotel etc etc

FACofff of course you'd be compelled to operate into it if delayed. Its not a day off.

You sound alarmingly like management Twiglet.

No, it's not a day off, but it should be after 5 days on. BAEF's direct competitor (for pilot T&Cs at least) is Easyjet, and they do 5/4/5/3 with no rest days and far stricter FTLs, not to mention considerably higher salaries. Anyone looking at joining BAEF should have that context. EF could potentially write off your rest day and plan 6 on - what real use is that day?

But thanks for pointing out you can't work more than 24 hours a day, every day, all week.

Any truth in the 737 Max fleet renewal?
Also, I saw that they are advertising for positions "aspiration to command" but they don't mention all the requirements for capt upgrade in euroflyer. Anyone here has direct info on what are the list of company requirements?

Question regarding rostering, is there any control or preferencing? Are there 'lifestyle' part time options outside of governement flexible working applications?

How does the pensionable pay compare at EF for a captain let’s say on pay point 5?

How is the fixed roster working out for people these days? 5/2 at times seems a bit brutal! Is there a mix of long & short sectors, or do the short ones tend to be used for training flights? Is 800 hrs pa being achieved? Lastly, how many hours approximately, Summer vs Winter? TIA.

5/2 is an improvement on last year's 6/2. 5/2 on the new FPR is rare.

You'll work most weekends and have the odd one off. That said, I think it's better than the deal up the road.

Summer expect to be doing 85 hours a month. Last winter was much quieter than previous winters. I reckon 45 hours a month Nov-Apr is about right. Things are certainly more stable than this time last year as I believe we're more appropriately crewed.

It's a seniority based bidding system (with an element of manual intervention to maximise productivity - albeit an element vastly less than last year) so all the time you're junior you'll effectively end up flying all the routes/times that nobody else wants.

Pay still falls behind the competition but all in all it's not a bad place to be.

Thank you, that’s very helpful 👍🏼

How is captain roster comparinf to other low costs?

Any ex RYR Skippers on BA Euroflyer?

How many 4 sectors expected per block?

Any night flights? How many Stby days per block and how often you got called?

A pm would be appriciated.

Thanks.

Hi,

Could anyone shed any light on how long the wait in the hold pool is for a EF DEP at the moment?

Thanks!

A former colleague is interested as DEC; do they sponsor the visa for non UK residents?

Thanks

It wouldn’t allow me to PM you - I think you need to make more posts first.