BIGBAD
What's up? If you've been made redundant before you tend to have a different outlook on Airline life. During Covid did you not think think VS might go to the wall?
Pilots from the Middle East not happy? Tell them to go back they are all recruiting again.

Not entirely sure what you’re driving at ? I’ve been made redundant twice and worked for many airlines but it doesn’t mean I should be grateful for the crumbs being thrown.

Many airlines have had T&Cs and contracts ripped up, Virgin being no exception. It has gone from being a ‘lifestyle’ airline, ie average pay (for an airline) but good lifestyle to no lifestyle, increased working (20%) and the same pay, after enduring either a 47% cut or redundancy ( although a meagre sub inflation rise is in the pipeline).

it’s rather simplistic to say , go back to where you came from, these are life changing decision, maybe you don’t understand that ?

Some have left, many are biding their time to see what comes in the next year or so. Don’t get me wrong Virgin was a great place to work but times have changed, it may be once again but it will take years to regain just a fraction of what has been lost.

BIGBAD. Thanks for your insight.

Looking at the payscales posted above. It looks like approx. £4300 net after tax/pension as a Yr1 SFO, that includes flying pay. Does that sound about right?
I imagine the down route subsistence will be swallowed up whilst on the trip so I’ll discount that.

Any idea on the overtime rate?

Is the option to take ‘pension cash’ still available? That would make the salary more liveable until a few rungs up the ladder.

May I ask what a realistic time to command at VAA is presently, if joining as an SFO?

Also, I assume everybody who meets the threshold hours for SFO joins as SFO1 - ie somebody with significantly more hours wouldn't join on a higher SFO tier? May be a daft question.

Plan on 10 years probably. Might be a bit less with retirements and expansion, but there are also plenty of people who have waited 13-14 years+.

Nope, plenty of people join with much more than the min requirements, but everyone starts on SFO1 payscale.

For overtime questions... disruption payments vary between £630-£1260 per day depending on how much notice you get and whether you're doing it as an additional trip

Perfect, thank you for the very informative response!

Stein, if it helps the starting for an sfo will rise to be a smidge under 79k from September and 82k from January.

Thanks Cabus, good to know.

The two different lifestyle options are they available from day one of joining the company or is there some kind of 2-3 year waiting list??

Thanks in advance for the information

there’s a waiting list atm but that could all change

Well sort of… it’s still at a trial stage but everyone that wanted it when it was originally offered got it AFAIK.

Company have recently said you’ll be able to bid for which contract you want on an annual basis. There’ll be a new trawl for it shortly and then we’ll see what the uptake is… it will be allocated in seniority order apparently (although they’re still reluctant to issue the seniority list so who knows)

The problem is that currently the part timers are working nearly as many hours as the full timers (working more in their available days). BALPA and Virgin have promised that hours will even out according to the percentage pay, but the honouring/transparency of industrial agreements is currently flaky at best, so this remains to be seen.

What he said, you’ve summed it up perfectly!

SUMMARY:

For those thinking about it, Virgin is a tough place to recommend currently.

It’s a very different company to what it was 3+ years ago. It used to have the best lifestyle in the UK IMHO, but right now it probably offers one of the worst. Joining at the moment comes with a fairly serious health warning and you will fly 90+hrs a month with a mix of east, west, min rest that destroys your body. It is Emirates/Qatar without the tax free salary.

I still enjoy it, but I live close to LHR and have a very understanding wife and kids that can cope without daddy being home. I have friends elsewhere that are interested in applying but my honest advice to them as a mate is to stay where they are.

It might get better… we have some very capable people in the VACC, but they are faced with management that are desperate to cut every possible corner to pay back the sizeable Covid debts. The next few years will probably be very volatile as we fight the company for every inch.

Your decision depends on individual circumstances and there are many jobs that are worse, but apply with your eyes open that this isn’t the company that it used to be.

Blimey!

Did Balpa not have anything to say about that? I mean, a union rep and all.

I'd be very appreciative if anybody (privately if preferred) could show me a snapshot of a recent, fairly standard roster month. Thank you very much in advance.

Oh they certainly did! One has formally apologised and provided compensation for falsehoods propogated in response to awkward questions being asked about what really happened behind closed doors in consultations with management. They are subject of active litigation along with the Company, and so it would be wrong to say anything here pertaining to what they did "actually say about it"! Suffice to say that there was unbelievable toxicity and they most certainly did not help when the executions were carried out from their "industry leading redundancy hold pool".

There are now multiple pilots involved in consolidated legal claims against the Company that are scheduled for six weeks worth of hearing in the future. Like others have said (likely VAA long timers as opposed to newer voices on here).....do your research.

There are some very accurate appraisals on this thread, and others - not so much. I guess it probably depends on how much actual experience you have in VAA and if you have known anything different in VAA before the last few years. This along with a truthful self appraisal of what you want for your own personal future (and perhaps most importantly - what your family wants!)

But one fact to be aware of : seniority is not something you can rely on at VAA now the precedent has been set. This is worth considering in this volatile industry of ours when you are waiting for a command for ten years! I waited twelve in the RHS and was unceremoniously made redundant at fifteen years from the LHS.

I was not a BALPA rep, BTW. Like I said, prob just coincidence.

Look through untinted glasses....if it is still for you compared to your current gig, good luck and go for it.

Would also be very keen to see this if possible.

FO/SFO
 

Apologies if it's been asked before. Can anyone clarify the difference between the FO/SFO payscales? Do you enter direct as SFO if experienced with certain amount of jet hours? Or does everyone enter on FO1 now?

Thanks for sharing info guys.

Over 2,500 hours= SFO

I've had the prescreening phone interview with Zenon, they're not hiring SFOs. Regardless of hours, the contract on offer is around FO2 on the payscale above. Apparently that is "base pay" but they had no details on flight pay or pension.

So the second year would be SFO3?

This seems a little shortsighted, considering the options out there at the moment. And also that they were recruiting SFOs pre-covid.

No, not sure what the scale is now, they said the current offer was ~£65k, I imagine that is the latest FO1 rate. I have over 4000 hours and they said it's the same offer regardless of hours. Worth noting that they also offer medical/LOL/dental/critical illness/travel insurance in the package.

Is that figure all in? Or with variable/flight pay on top?

I think someone working at Virgin would have to clarify that. I asked the question and he said that 65k was just the base pay but he had no details regarding flight pay or pension yet.

65K is FO1 pay scale. To reach Sfo Pay scale its 2 years.

65k is all in, no flight pay to go on top.

Are you happy to give any insight as to what the pre-screening interview consisted of? Thanks

For myself, it was a half an hour phone call, a very friendly guy, and the usual questions:
- "Why Virgin?", "why do you want to leave your current role" etc.,
- They run through your CV and check your hours are correct.
- The last section is where it's different, they ask you a few questions that are related to Virgin's new marketing campaign of inclusivity and being yourself. "Behavioural evaluation" I think they call it.
- If you've passed the initial screening and they've sent you the two emails with attachments, in the born-to-fly document if you go down to the "Our Values" page, this is probably the best prep material, it felt like they were looking for answers that aligned with company values.

From memory, I was asked these questions which led to more questions based on my answers.

You got asked this on the screening call ?

If you meet the requirements, they will call you to arrange a telephone interview. The above was asked during that telephone interview. This is phase two of five of their selection process, labelled "Zenon Pre-Screen Telephone Interview & Behavioural/Performance based evaluation"

I’ve read in a previous thread that they have used cut-e psychometric tests in the past. Does anyone know if this is still the case?
Thanks

Someone delete the table?

The pay scales? They're on page 1. I believe all the numbers need +4% due to the new pay deal.

I read in a recent BALPA email that improved scheduling was voted on and agreed as part of the VS pay deal. Can anyone shed light on the improvements? I presume the return of 700 hours wasn’t on the cards

Has everybody who applies heard back? I applied shortly after it opened, meet all the requirements etc but nothing heard yet.

Think they’re still working their way through the pre-covid hold pool. Someone I know who was in that pool just had his interview, sim ride and job offer this week.

What is the Psychometric Assessment like? Are they essentially Cut E tests?

Yes,

Prescreen interview tomorrow. Applied same day it launched.