Anecdotally, from a friend, living in Europe, he is struggling with the commute with just two days between trips sometimes, and looking to leave, having been on the 787 in VA for only about nine months. Not sure if this is the norm, or just bad luck?

Mate of mine has aged horribly in the last five years since he started commuting having joined VS. Trip two days off trip two days cycle ad Infinitum. This is 330/350 fleet. Doesn’t sound like much fun.

how far is his commute?

Eastern Europe.

Welcome to virgin 2.0
 

yes that the norm now. Everyone is permanently tired.

I appreciate there’s reciprocal traffic, but definitely a few VA guys left for Jet2 recently, citing fatigue/lifestyle and company attitude as the main issues. Some even within a year of command. Says it all really.

Not just Jet2, I hear it more and more that people are looking outside. Even a few newly promoted Captains are fed up and looking for DEC outside.

I’ve got 7 years to retirement and to be fair if the ex wife hadn’t left me with a mortgage at my age I’d have taken the payoff in 2020.

The problem with Virgin is we have a lot of selfish crew that will grab any overtime they can to line their pockets without thinking of the consequences to crewing levels.. and it’s not the happy friendly place it was when I joined back in the 00’s where people would help out each other.

BALPA like to trot out this ethos at the big orange too, where attrition rate is very high. The individual pilots can’t really be blamed for wanting a bit of extra dinero with the cost of the world. If people are using their fatigue mitigation tools then the message should be out there for the company to see it’s not working. Surely at five trips a month there’s no scope for picking up any overtime at all, so which super-humans are actually picking this stuff up?

Virgin seem to be recruiting for courses into 2024 so one would expect that people picking up overtime isn’t cutting the numbers too much?

Lets just hope the golden three comes good.

You want know what happens when pilots don't take that DOP for overtime? The overtime payment usually goes up, thus enticing more pilots to say yes. Eventually, even the goody-two-shoes ones accept. Failing that, the Airline cancels flights, which results in EU261 claims and probably the end of your job. Airlines would much rather offer DOPs than hire 25% more pilots. That's a lot of redundancy payouts for when the next (delete as appropriate) pandemic,terrorist attack,financial crash,volcanic eruption occurs.

You would think so, but some months people are getting 5 trips the next 3.. I flew with someone the other week that had picked up two extra flights each month for the last 6 month with out burning his leave.

I see Virgin pilots have overwhelmingly voted yes in an indicative ballot for discontinuous strike action over the changes imposed on them and their work practices after covid.

Good luck to Virgin pilots. It’s time management started listening to the very real concerns re fatigue and a work life balance.

Utter garbage. You want people to stop doing overtime, get your union to ban it through collective action. Going after individuals for doing overtime at their agreed rate in line with their contract is what’s selfish.

Based on your retirement age, my guess is you don’t have student debt weighing you down, training loans to repay, fledgling kids at home etc. You do you, don’t throw stones at over people.

Nothing quite as laughable as someone near the top of their payscale and seniority list hammering junior pilots for stuff like that.

Quite right. And you do you. Feast on the last sumptious scraps in your Westwood robes while Rome burns around you. Throwing stones at the generation that fought hard for the rights you are throwing away is real garbage. Or rubbish as we say outside Delta.

Are there really so few UK pilots applying for these jobs that they feel the need to sponsor visas for EU applicants?

people have VERY short memory’s , the way Virgin and other certain airlines treated pilots during covid was terrible , I’m sure that amongst other reasons is a factor.
I feel if lots of airlines start getting cheap labour from Europe into uk airlines it will not end well for us ….

We urgently need to get a handle on this as pilots through whichever means. There needs to be a way of ascertaining when an airline has a right to hire foreign/cheap labour. They can pull the wool over the UK governments eyes by saying there is a pilot shortage, all-the-while not even increasing salaries by 5%.

Virgin has about 40 aircraft in its fleet right now. How many pilots does it have?

Believe it or not, it's not down to Virgin to decide if they're allowed to hire non-UK citizens. That falls on the government, who currently require non-UK airline pilots to be paid £50,800 in order to satisfy a sponsored visa, which is a good chunk less than what the FO year one is at VS. Ultimately, who cares where the applicants come from? Variety in life and flying experience is a good thing. It's up to BALPA to actually negotiate a decent QOL for the flight crew they represent.

Everyone who is a UK passport holder and has a basic grasp of how labour supply affects wages maybe?

You think all the UAE nationals are up in arms because they let outsiders in? EK still one of the best paid gigs around if you can face it.

Every single industry in the UK allows foreign nationals to obtain sponsorship if they have the right skills and salary, but it’s quite a lot of effort for the companies involved to do, so most are put off from doing so.

To keep it Virgin relevant, BALPA’s crusade at the moment is for more days off, longer rest periods and more pilots operating on longer flights, which can all be achieved much easier in an expanding airline with more pilots in the company. Even BA (supposedly the be all and end all of British aviation) is struggling to find qualified pilots to fill their ranks, so outside of your xenophobia you can’t blame them for looking down a different path to fill the spots. Take it up with the government.

Interesting you mention the UAE, given its clear and overt bias in favouring nationals over immigrants in the labour market there (Emiratisation). You are correct at least in pointing out that the problem lies with the UK government for its complicity in allowing the undercutting of locals.

I don't blame Virgin for acting in its own interests to try and suppress labour costs but suspect (and hope) that thanks to regulatory divergence from EASA their search for UK licenced foreigners will be largely fruitless.

15 years ago, US pilots were sleeping in crash pads and cars parked at the end of the runway. It has always been a mostly closed labour market there and now it's staring to bite. Look at the situation there today. Do you think such wages would exist if the whole world was eligible for E-3 visas?

Opening to the world will only serve to jeopardise any serious rise in T&C's in the UK and must be opposed vehemently.