Do the cabin crew get a vote through their union and does that have to be approved also for it to work?

...
It looks like BALOCOLGW is back on ....

https://www.cityam.com/pilots-give-b...ck-operations/

Predictably weak and self-serving from BALPA-on-high. A massive about-turn.

So, what’s the offer?

Haha, so quick to comment but then completely unaware of the facts? 🤦

The way this is going the Cabin Crew will be paid more than the pilots!

No change there then

kendrick47247

So, am I warm?

Media would suggest so.

I’d relish a change in SOP from BALPA, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

Dingleberry Handpump

You are talking nonsense.

The BA company council section of BALPA has been engaged in discussions with BA, not BALPA.

The BACC has secured modest improvements and reballoted BA's pilots. BA's BALPA pilots overwhelmingly voted in favour of the new operation at LGW. They did so to ensure that BA branded work from LGW was performed by BA pilots on the Master Seniority List with this work open to those BA pilots who BA had "let go" over a year ago. You would be surprised at the huge number of LHR pilots who were concerned at the plight of those former BA pilots who were now unemployed and who voted in favour to offer them the opportunity to return to BA work

BA's LGW pilots will be on different T&Cs to those at LHR as has been the case for many years. It could be argued that these LGW pilots will be working harder than those based at LHR and therefore should be paid MORE than LHR pilots but airline life is not like that - a unit's income determines what expenditure can be afforded and not who works hardest.

Once the "let go pilots' have been absorbed into LGW or LHR, recruitment to LGW will be open to all; successful candidates will then join the BA MSL. If the BACC had not secured an agreement acceptable to both BA and BA's BALPA members then the LGW work would have been lost for ever to BA pilots and the slots would have been used - probably by Vueling - or sold to probably Wizz.

IMO, the BACC have done well in the negotiations but I expect the BALPA knockers to think otherwise.

Spot on, Shaman. Great post.

Someone actually in the know rather than the idiotic “shoot first, ask questions later” 🙄

Shaman

Good post. Thank you.

Yes, so do enlighten us, how does the new and improved agreement compare to 2019?

Ah, BACC my heroes. Orchestrated the deal to get us out the door and now claiming the glory for bringing us back on £20k a year less.

And my former BA colleagues - "concerned at our plight". Shame they weren't that concerned 12 months ago. Especially the captains getting demoted and keeping their full captain pay. Or the technically redundant 747 brigade getting their 66.6% pay and then getting other jobs flying cargo. Or the 63 year olds receiving full pensions and opting to take 787 type ratings. Or the spineless BACC in their attempts to get us on the JRS. What about the "787/350" pilots in the door for 5 minutes keeping their jobs.

This is the opportunity a lot have been waiting for but please don't dress this lot up in unwarranted glory.

Don't get me wrong. A lot of very good eggs in BA but don't give me the **** that this is being done for the sake of the PRP.

BAreject, as a fully paid up member of the PRP, I share your anger and frustration and I’m as pissed off about the whole situation now as I was a year ago.

That said, your anger towards all our former BA pilot colleagues is misplaced. With such a large group of people, you can’t generalise and say all of them didn’t care, the fact is the vast majority did and the selfish behaviour you’ve cited was in a small minority. I don’t agree with it either but it’s a fact of life that some people will just look out for themselves. Plenty of pilots wanted to make the CR numbers zero and would have done almost anything to achieve that.

The fact is, the BACCs hands were tied and BA wanted to make a point to all departments that no one was safe and so, a few of us pilots lost our jobs. It was politics, plain and simple and a possible fallout of the 2019 strikes. The various mechanisms BA used in order to make some CR happen doesn’t matter now, it was always inevitable once the management has decided as such.

You also can’t moan about the CRS being on 66% pay and getting cargo jobs. The CRS was funded from the existing pilot’s pay and is nothing to do with us in the PRP or BA for that matter. I will concede the 787/350 pilot thing was a real kick in the balls but again BA decided to save them, not the BACC at the expense of people further up the MSL.

FWIW, I think the LGW newco thing is both good and bad. It’s gets people out of the CRS and PRP in the short term but may well erode T&Cs in the long term. You may or may not agree with that, but don’t tar all our former pilot colleagues with the same callous brush because it’s not true.

You're mistaken in your analysis of my post.

not sure how well this goes down with the BA, Easy and Ryr guys from Balpa…pilot shortage?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...retire-change/

nothing but the media trying to create chaos again but using the word shortage in another field given the recent events in the U.K. Hopefully people start panic buying holidays.

BAreject

What do you think should have happened?

Professional trade union negotiators? (The budget should just about cover it)

an open and honest consultation, with representatives that represent the community as a whole not just the interests of PP24 old boys club (hence the term representative)

A deal whereby the ‘union’ of pilots negotiate a fair deal rather than sending the 249 most vulnerable members of the ‘community’ off to the slaughter with no aid in a bid to protect the precious ‘T&C’s’ ?

When the chair steps down after a revelation of misconduct during negotiations by company representatives, this would normally be rather telling. But the narrative enables a convenient sweeping under the carpet..

I could go on.

What would you have considered a 'fair' deal? afaik BA insisted on statutory redundancy packages for ALL staff despite BALPA wanting to improve the package. Are you suggesting that the selection process which was based on the agreements that ~4000 pilots had worked to their whole careers should not have been respected?

That's not why the chair stepped down though is it? I assume you read his resignation letter. Wasn't said chair a PP34 FO too which isn't exactly the PP24 capts old boys club.

I really really hope you get back flying asap and hopefully when the anger subsides can have a long and fulfilling career in BA. But CV19 has been the biggest sh@tshow we've ever ever seen in aviation and it's sad that it caused the first CR pilots in BA. Would anything have avoided this though I'm not convinced. Thankfully we can see green shoots and I truly hope this results in better outlook for you

Don’t forget they (BA BALPA) had not long come out of a strike in not particularly great shape so what form do you suggest this “standing fast” should have taken?

As I recall things it appeared that BA were utterly and absolutely intent on CR for at least some of the pilot force…TBH I think BALPA did reasonably OK in the circumstances, though I’m still a bit :hmm: about the way things were handled on some fleets.

FL370 Officeboy

ithe implication that the 249 had *not* been working for their careers?

the agreement wasn't adhered to though, was it? not going into specifics, but many aspects which would have helped members of the 249 were not honoured...

the said chair was also ex BACF and on the 747 a technically redundant fleet, no? Gosh wasn't it lucky he/she wasn't caught out in the number of redundant pilots

don't get me wrong, the chair seemed like a decent person, but there's no doubt is all very strange.

Do you think had PP24 not been offered in exchange for 0 CR ba wouldn't have sniffed?

If you were party to negotiations and you can insist they were completely fair and transparent and everything was done to prevent CR, well ill take back what I said but until then I remain dubious...

whatever helps everyone sleep at night though.

I knew he was 747, I didn't realise he was ex Cityflyer.

How many times have I heard this rubbish "BA were intent on making CR". Great, how macho did they look getting rid of the 249 most junior, vulnerable pilots. So, the BACC couldn't do anything about it? The same BACC that have just supposedly almost averted BA from attempting a return to LGW.

So, after the huge need to make CR, those CR recipients (recipients of £ zero) are on the verge of returning on a big pay cut. Who could have seen that coming?!

I saw an internal memo recently saying how the Chief Exec was determined to do the right thing by their staff. If only they had that attitude a year ago.

Well said. Those 249 future pilots were treated appallingly to save those sitting comfortably waiting for a seat after 747 was dismantled. And keeping on those that had been in for 5 mins to what end? 787/350? The precious seniority working for whom?

BAreject

You are under no obligation to return. You could reject the offer of a job at LGW and wait to see if one becomes available at LHR.

If it was not for the BACC's efforts, there would not be any opportunities for you at LGW - they would have been lost to BA pilots for ever.

If you don't want to go to LGW, there will be many who will be happy to take your place and many others who would do it for free. Count yourself lucky to have the option.

Surely if PRP members had wished to work at Gatwick (easyjet's main base) for an easyjet salary, on airbus A320's, they would have joined easyjet? Or in the case for a good portion of the PRP, not left easy in the first place?

Otherwise, brilliant work from balpa, negitoating easyJet T&C to fly for BA, excellent deal, for the company at least...

DS1

I just hope those pilots who have no intention of returning to work can live with their decision.
Did not someone come off the 747, then got a 787 course and then did a handful of trips, then retired?

Yes, he did.

I think you’ll find EasyJet t&c are a lot better than you think, hence why more and more turned down BA job offers as EasyJet was a better place to be.

thye didn’t make anyone redundant (only voluntary)

except for half of the German workforce. But sure, none in the U.K. in return for PT for everyone.

somewhat proves my point, balpa offering PRP pilots less than easyjet T&C nice

I'm pretty sure easyJet made a lot of pilots redundant in Germany.

HEJT2015

Thus denying a young pilot with his career ahead of him and eye watering debt, and no prospect of a job short term.
I know everyone's circumstances are different but you would like to thing that someone on pp24 which is £180,000+ plus a pension that we all dream about, would have thought it was now time to throw the towel in and give someone else a go.
Believe me this has caused a lot of anger amongst the new FO's in the company who knew a lot of the people who were let go.

..and in the interests of fairness/completeness can I point out that a fair number in those circumstances did indeed throw the towel in…

Hopefully that at least avoided some CR.

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/16821.html

Is this related ?

balpareject

I’m sure you understand that it’s BA offering the terms and conditions, and not Balpa? It’s not a great deal, granted, but do you think Balpa event to BA and said “hey let’s pay newco pilots £xxx”?

Agreed Wiggy,
met a retired 777 skip in Antiparos who took the money and said that he has not looked back.
A lot don't realise there IS life after BA!!

The CR was political because of all the other areas of the business also letting people go.

Busdriver01

I don’t understand any of this.

I think you’re letting your imagination run away a bit there

Busdriver01

This, 100%. Nicely sums up how those, who don’t wear balpa tinted glasses, feel.