A320 neo/321neo
 

Gosh I am sorry I misquoted the exact a/c type.

As you say, why oh why did I quote 320 rather than 321neo, answer - maybe the question I posed was more about details of the Joining, OCC, Rostering etc, rather than which exact MSN the airline may or may not operate.

BTW you state 2 extra CWT, are you sure it is not 3 ?

Who cares, I am trying to find out info of a non tech nature.

Can we get back on topic and leave the Spotters to Spotting.

Rant over. Thank you.

To be a little bit centrist in this argument - quite a few people pick up interview tips / company background etc on their chosen company from these forums, and going into an interview and talking (wrongly) about how Primera’s new A320 Service will be A Very Good thing, could be the difference between getting the job and not.

That said, there’s no need to be a :mad: about a simple mistake.

Morning, has anyone received the Welcome Letter, detailing the Course ? I have not.

Good afternoon, same here ... no letter whatsoever.

They will need deep pockets to make this work, I have done plenty of NATS with our lot and you are leaving the USA late evening at around 02:00Z with your body clock still in the UK meaning sleep prior to flight is difficult to achieve East bound.

Anyone considering this should put all times in Z think about what time you land locally in the USA do you eat have a beer then go to bed or go to bed and wake up Z time per your body clock? at say 8:00Z (03:00L) what i can say is that you will regularly be awake 20+ hours on the return trip and trying to go sleep during the day before your next trip will be a huge challenge, but worry not sleep with not be an issue when you get to your 7 days off assuming you live long enough on the drive home!!

I think you should plan on 3-4 days REST before you’ll feel half human again after which 5 earlier duties will seem like the good life you used to have, personally stop overs of less 24 hours should not be allowed, you’ll be back in the seat after what 18 -20 hours, legal but?

Hi, I agree with your comments re the proposed Rostering, Jet Lag, Fatigue.

It is up to the Guys and Girls on the early Courses to effect change, but I agree, the 6 days on, 2 days off, 6 days on, 1 day off, 6 days on, 7 days off is not sustainable and careful negotiation needs to be undertaken, otherwise in this Market people will just 'Vote with their Feet'

A 6/4, 6/4 and 6/4 Roster is one possible alternative, a much better spread of work/off days. Easier for the Commuter etc.

NIL extra cost to the Airline, happier workforce. = A positive result

I applied a couple of weeks ago and was invited for the Skype 'meeting' where I asked about the possibility of flexible working (part time/life style roster/fixed roster pattern....call it what you like). I haven't heard a peep out of them since!

EIFFS
Are you and future GV driver from the same house?
Yes it would be nice to leave at lunch time yes it would be nice to have a 48hr layover in the USA. You might want to ask what other AOC's have 48hr layovers in the East Coast USA...
And then if you don't like 24hr stopovers what about the stop in-between in Europe? Maybe don't do back to backs but then the "commuters" won't be happy...

A lot of expansion planned:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/62923-primera-air-mulls-new-long-haul-destinations

They will need a lot of pilots if this comes to fruition...

Dear Mr Angry

Just look at the roster and calculate how many European local nights sleeps you’ll be deprived of, this isn’t really long haul, but long distance short haul, yes Norwegian do flights this long or longer between LPA & North Norway but you don’t have a 5 hour time shift, you even notice a 2 hour shift if you operating up Finland from LPA.

I don’t think anyone expects Hollywood roster patterns and it’s not about that, but going from Monarchs 2 sector home every night pattern to having more nights away a month than you spend in your home bed will be brutal, your partner will expect TLC when you get back you won’t be able to speak or want to.

Most wont be able to do this for more than 6 months, money good or bad is irrelevant.

A word of warning if I may:

For a previous employer many years’ ago, I did 870 hours in the last year that I worked for them, and a lot of that was 6-on 2-off.

My commute was the max allowed admittedly, but towards the end of that last year I was like a zombie - and my duties back then did not include any time zone shifts.

Please be careful folks; aviation is not worth sacrificing your health or your family life for. I am not saying this will be the case with the employer in question - but trust me as one who has worked similar sounding rosters; it really isn’t worth it.

It’s not Danish/Latvian style, but French....finding a problem for every solution :)

EIFFS

Well don't bother applying then!
If you're ex Monarch then sit and wait for the good old days to return (I can't believe you are)

Not Ex Monarch
 

Happy with the Red nose job thanks, but I know it's cost us a fortune and some to get long haul off the ground and even with 3 years experience of 787 ops our narrow body Atlantic craic has been hugely expensive and very management time consuming to become established, i do hope Primera have got very deep pockets for when things go wrong as they will, just check out BOS weather tonight

Yes, I dont think roster proposed by SA is compliant.

https://understandingeasa2016ftl.wor...-rest-periods/

A minimum of 3 nights should be positionned after the 2 NAT

The irony is that in the dying days of Monarch, the owners planned to sell off the family silver (slots) and start a low cost longhaul airline operating the MAXs on just such routes and no doubt rostered in a very similar way.

This is a very true - ironic indeed!

The first course started today.

And, as I observed the leftovers of a Primera annotated lunch, they appear to be feeding you while at the sim facility! Posh bikkies too.
You'll need all the carbs you can get to do the roster patterns suggested above.

Rouelan

2 days off = 3 local nights

At what point does a regulator step in and put an end to this downward spiral. The proposed roster sets a dangerous precedent as other airlines will surely try and follow.
“Once you get past 16 hours of being awake, that’s when we start to see mental deterioration and physiological deterioration in the body,” Walker says.

“We know that after you’ve been awake for 19 or 20 hours, your mental capacity is so impaired that you would be as deficient as someone who was legally drunk behind the wheel of a car.

“Wakefulness essentially is low-level brain damage.”

https://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/heal...fects-12700764

Never, unless there is a smoking hole in the ground or the political pressure becomes strong enough. As most politicians are in the hands of major corporations and investors the “political pressure” option is not gonna happen. That leaves smoking hole in the ground as only possible turning point. Thinking anything else would be very naive.

Agreed....and when the smoking hole comes who do you think will get the blame....

Of course, the crew is responsible for managing their rest and the roster that’s been produced within the legal framework of current FTLs.

No one said it was going to be fair.

The question is, do you want to put yourself in a situations where it may be “impossible” to manage rest and where you could regularly find yourself walking the line? Having said that, we still don’t know exactly how the rosters will end up looking. So for those who are seeing this as a possible future job it’s perhaps best to wait a bit and see how things unfold? There’s quite a big competition out there for experienced crew at the moment so it will be interesting to see where the balance for attracting enough crew will be.

Couldn’t agree more! Give them a chance instead of sitting in judgement, after all they are just like the rest of us who want to fly safely and come home to our families!

Also heard through the grapevine that new joiners have so far been quite impressed with the training and set up. As I’m sure they know, big challenges lie ahead! Good luck to ‘em! :ok:

where has this trend come from that we now send convoys of bucket and spade type design cram them in small jets on basically ultra long short haul flights?

beggars belief that joe public after 40 years of Jumbos and big planes we all suddenly seem so bloody happy to get on something that normally takes us to sunny spain

i don't get the retrograde market forces

757s been doing it for years!

yes i know - i was with MON/OM for years - and also dealt with AE 757 long haul ops

757 was a different beast performance and power wise -

still stopped at BGR and BAH though for a nice night stop and got a week in the Maldives lol

Do you have technical expertise to state categorically that the new A321neo and specifically the LR version will be “that” much different to a stock 757??

The 321neo LR will have 4000 nm range, MTOW increased to 97 tons and cabin configurations for up to 240 passengers.

Yes but it will never carry 240 pax anywhere near that distance.

Will Primera receive the LR version initially or regular 321 NEO?

NEO first as far as I understand. The LR will launch with Air Transat in 2019 I think.

Well I think the problem will actually be (?) luggage space for 240 pax, not fuel / range, at least not for companies wanting to fly London/Paris etc to US east coast.

Don’t forget, when comparing to the 757, the 321LR will do the same range as the 757 but with about 30% less fuel and they have similar MTOW. Less fuel - less weight - more payload.

Having said that I have not looked in to any official airbus graphs for exact range @ specific weights so I don’t know for sure what max range will be at MTOW.

CDG-YYZ is about 3300N and is the longest route as far as I know.
With head wind (25kt), it will be around 3500 NAM which is the max range claimed by airbus on the neo.

So I guess that the max payload (200pax on their neo and max payload below 20t) might be possible almost every time except on partilar days on this route.

There is a pay-your-money-and -take-your-choice element here.

I do grow tired of well intentioned threads, that are savaged attack any operator other than the 'established' ones.

Yes - lifestyle and money is VERY important, but people do need jobs, and I personally welcome competition and variety in the market.

Surely it is good to have more than just 'BA, Ryanair and EZY' as employers??

Give them a chance!

It's not like the other three are anything like perfect to work for, is it?

iirc my memory serves me that the MTOW for a 757-200 etops was 115 tonnes

i think someone here mentions that the 321neoLR is about 97 tonnes with 3 LR tanks fitted - which will no doubt reduce baggage space

still dont think you can pitch a stretched and multi mega tweaked A320/321 with a 757 any day of the week

Primera A321noe LR

So it looks like they will have a 198 seat cabin, 16 premium and 182 economy. With either of the two new engine choices, LR tanks and 198 pax configuration I think airlines might actually be able to get 4000nm out of the aircraft and still get all bags on board, possibly not in containers though.

For a long time (not sure if it is the case anymore) the longest 757W route operated was United's NY - Berlin service and this could not be operated with max payload.

That could very well be, but I suspect a lot of that is extra fuel, when compared to the 321LR, that's no longer required to fly the same distance?

Anyway, lots of guessing at this stage as I don't have any official airbus documentation or performance information for the 321neo LR. It will be interesting to see how it will perform though, once in service. I guess Norwegian is also planning on similar routes for their 321neo LRs?

Any more info regarding contracts, rosters etc as cabin crew are too being very left out of the loop here :ugh:

Meanwhile in the real world Norwegian cuts more transatlantic 737 Max services

But increase frequency from SNN

Hartford was never that popular ditto Bergen