There may well have historically been discretion exercised but there was no hint of it this time.

Figures not accurate Count. Which ones ? They are what I thought.

Enzo999 is absolutely right. 10 years experience to be offered a flex contract then maybe 2nd Officer then maybe 75% FO pay scale is just not viable when you have little mouthes to feed. Anyway, it was all academic anyway. Such a pity.

For all its faults, RYR doesn't pay such a paltry salary as that! For those that seem to think EZY is wonderful, get out a bit more! They're not bad for Captains, but they're terrible to junior FOs. No low cost airline in the EU is a good place to be long term.

You can now expect a base change with your promotion

New joiners need to consider the possible effect of "Right to return" people jumping in ahead of them on the seniority list.

or the medium/long term viability of the business...

do your homework

A few years ago people were excitedly discussing the virtues of Monarch and basing their decision solely on the unsustainable T&C's. Hence people came and recently went home disappointed.

Look beyond the headlines, read the whole newspaper.

Renort the total salary bill only dropped 5%. It is just that some took a 40% pay cut, whilst others gained. Also it is worth contemplating that crew costs are only in the region of 12% of DIrect Operating Costs. (Ask Stelios :)) So unsustainable well depends on your perspective. MeThinks it is just the industry dumbing down pilots jobs.

Bumped into some fresh faced Oxford cadets last week in the A320 sim at LGW who were joining MON. It seems like the shortfall is being made up of entirely cadets which is a great shame for those of us with experience and type rated.

Crosswind,

I guess to hire a cadet is cheaper than hiring an experienced guy. Sucks but that's the way it is. I don't know where this trend will end really. I suppose if airlines want to flog seats for peanuts then they have to cut their costs, and the largest cost that they can control (other than leasing costs maybe) is that of pilots salaries. We're soft targets.

Mon is a unsustainable business model in today's low cost climate, anybody would be mad to chuck in a job to join this outfit, near zero chance the max order will ever come about.

ICEHOUSES - A voice of sanity in a mad world.

Greybull have an exit strategy (if necessary) with a degree of profit/limited exposure however if AS and his team succeed their return on investment is enhanced but, at some stage, whether short or medium term, they want out and they have no concern for the 'establishment' only their/investors money.

Like to know where you got that info from???...exit strategy :confused:

Oh man they're vulture capitalists. Of course they have an exit strategy, it goes hand in hand with their reason for buying in.:ugh:

Can somebody explain to me why Monarch is an "unsustainable business model"? If it has a low enough cost base why can't it make some money?

Sounds like I need to run out and get another job, shame I really liked this one.

Greybull 'exit strategy'.

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post8666246

blackandbrown and blantoon will be along shortly to explain.

Oh yeah ,of course its all doom and gloom at Monarch might have to follow Enzo999 as well:ugh:.....better not take that attitude into work :mad: day we would have:{

Agree. If Mon business model is not sustainable then nor is EZY and RYR.

Yes, it will be difficult because confidence and moral is low but really could do without outsiders expressing their ill informed opinions. We have seen enormous changes internally and it is all about returning Mon to profit. The model is perfectly sustainable and those inside will do their utmost to make it work. If you are lucky enough to have landed an orange seat, sit back and think yourself lucky but stop the gloating.

Monarch business model
 

With regard to the MON 'business model' there are significant differences with EZY and RA. Just to pick out two current hot topics ....MON only have UK bases so they do not have the ability to 'react' within 261 time scales thus creating a financial liability and they provide ATOL certification to all their flights at an estimated cost of £2.40 per passenger per flight. Sheer size of operation leads to economies which MON can never achieve.

Yet another thread littered with orange glow.

No other airlines crews tends to shower this site with exclamations by of how great life is as those from the orange machine does.

The bulk of my aquaintances who operate in the orange loco aren't actually that keen. Due to a whole host of reasons.

So was the thread about Monarch recruitment?

Good luck guys. Ive friends who are Mon and met lots of Monarch crews over the years. For sure thngs are a bit up in the air at present but still a very decent operator.

Fingers crossed the business plan comes off and they dont just become another airline swallowed up by the locos.

Well so far so good!!

According to management briefings, Sales and profit, above and beyond what was first forecast on take over by the new owners. That's also without the bonus of lower fuel costs!!

Long may it continue!! :D

And scheduling agreement intact. Yes I know we've had a pay cut smart asses. Hopefully to be addressed in a couple of years time.

working class oik made good. Hells Bells, another ruffian
 

Absolutely dismayed to learn that a council house boy from a Bournemouth sink estate has taken over as Monarch CEO. What a dive in experience from the halcyon days of Danny Bernstein who at least had an impeccable business background from Dan Air in the 70,s.and a great man to work for.
I can only think that this follows the current trend of placing thugs with dubious educational backgrounds and a penchant for disliking the Airline Pilot in the front of the rack em and stack em businesses.

I sincerely hope you're joking. Although Danny was (is) a gentleman, as was AJS before him.

I did think the referencing to Council Estates was a bit unnecessary in that article but Monarch's PR obviously thought it was the right angle to take.

And if Monarch's PR people thought it was right, then they must be right. In fact, you should believe everything they tell you - the new Monarch will really have no difficulty as a minnow in a pond of giant carp like Ryanair, easyJet, Norwegian and Veiling. How hard can it be?

Sounds like you think you are a cut above the rest Koi, what is wrong with coming from a Council Estate or anywhere for that matter, good look to anybody who tries to improve oneself. Have you met the person in question, doubt it. I tell you something you just sound like an obnoxious little :mad: and by God have I met a few of your like over the years unfortunately.

compton 3b, why be so abusive. koi is entitled to his/her opinion as are you. :mad:

Koi
 

You've contributed nothing to this thread (admittedly nor have I) save for your bizarre ramblings. Being from a council estate and house did me no harm. Some people from very humble beginnings have went on to either lead or build major businesses. It's a shame that no matter how hard someone works, what they achieve or what they do for a living can be overshadowed by where they come from in life by the likes of you.

The only thing I remember Danny doing was buying Pullman Holidays ,which specialised in holidays to Israel. We have not operated a flight there for years.,so you can see how profitable that purchase was.
I personally do not care where the management comes from as long as they provide strong leadership and are competent at what they do. There have been too many leaders recently who have not demonstrated either of these qualities or have only produced a profit by failing to invest and modernise and have sweated the assets.
What I find disturbing is the horde of orange on this forum who are obviously so insecure of their long term positions that they have to denigrate any company who may offer even a hint of competition to their employer.

I'll venture

Quod circumvehitur, revehitur.

It seems to me a lot of yellow jealousy from the Orange machine! Maybe the fatigue upsets them? I would rather be lead by a savy ex council bloke than an arrogant ctc type ;)

Interesting, isn't it, the pervasive "orange" (genuinely used as an EZY management term regarding personality). That it comes invariably from such smug cadets and those older crew who have never worked elsewhere shows a terrible problem with insecurity mixed with arrogance. You only have to look at their strut around the airport... It's a minority of their staff that are so afflicted, but not a small minority. :=

It must be a miniscule proportion of easy crew who do that. I've never heard anything but positivity toward Monarch and their crew and recall several different people discussing how they wish Monarch well and to pull through, as I'm sure we all do. Admittedly there are a few people so orange that you can't reason with them when you say anything 'bad' about easy but I'm sure other airlines have these types too.

If easy crew are strutting around then it would be an extraordinary turn of events as it was only until recently people used to look down on us. In fact I remember being in a northern base and crew from at least two other airlines (neither Monarch) would go out of their way to avoid us when passing or sharing a lift!

Give any 19/20 year old a couple of silver or gold bars and he's going to strut round the terminal no matter who he works for. Seen it too many times with my own eyes!

I know a council house boy who is currently a Training Captain for a large very well known airline in the U.K.

Legions of council house boys made good in the days when every town had a grammar school.

Jesus was born in a stable and he seemed to do OK. Well, apart from the crucifixion, that was a bit unfortunate. Anyway, anyone who can turn water into wine is OK with me :ok:

Monarch was a great company in my day. It is very sad the way things have turned out. I wish you all tbe very best for the future.

Of course Jesus had to be born in a stable because the inn was full - it was Christmas! Old joke I know but just trying to lighten the proceedings a little on this thread;)

Grammar Schools
 

You raise an interesting point about Grammar Schools. I've never understood why the Labour Party are so ideologically opposed to them when the Grammar School system was the best bridge out of poverty that the working class ever had. If Labour wanted to win the next election they could do worse than offering to bring them back...

Anyway speaking personally I would jump at the chance of a job at Monarch but sadly they don't seem to be interested in us turboprop guys at present. I can only hope that situation changes. There are legions of ex-jet jocks at Flybe who have been forced off the jet back to the Dash 8 and want to find a pathway back to a jet job and Monarch would suit just fine.

If anyone has any info please post here. I'm aware that the package has diminished and the company has had its problems but I for one wish them well for the future and look forward to seeing them back on top form again.

Job Security
 

As much fun as the "my airlines going to last longer than yours" arguments are - lets face it. We are ALL employed in aviation - job security doesn't exist!

It's purely timing and luck that determine your first job. From there it's a personal choice whether to stay or move on elsewhere dependent on our individual circumstances. NO AIRLINE OFFERS IT ALL!

It would have been a loss if Monarch succumbed last year. I'm sure times are tough and morale is undoubtedly an issue but the cost base is dramatically reduced; they have finally a leader at the helm (irrespective of where he came from); a strong brand; excellent loads and dare I say it the only 'low cost' player with the faintest clue about customer service. It's all to play for and good luck to them!

DP

Without wishing to give you false hope, the ex-Flybe joiners from the last couple of years have been highly regarded within the training dept and so it is entirely conceivable that more will be fished from this particular pool at some point.

Thanks
 

Thanks Mike, I will keep my ear to the ground and hope it re-opens for us - good to hear that the Flybe peeps were a good fit - I guess if you can fly a Dash 8 you can fly pretty much anything!!

Dash drivers have been doing well at Monarch for years, many made the switch in 04, 05 & 06 and were highly regarded by the training department. Dash guys & gals just have to get past the "jet time, jet time, jet time" brigade that still exists in some airlines, the training is the easy bit!