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Good evening! Does anyone know what is the sitaution with the talent pool at the moment? How many swimmers are out there or what is the time to being offered a position, for type rated FO's?
Many thanks! |
Originally Posted by Daily Dalaman Dave
(Post 10597288)
Of course there will be a training burden. And no most TCX guys won’t have 737 time, but what they will have is 1000s of Boeing hours, massive experience flying the same routes from the same places. For an airline that NEEDS to expand that is manner from heaven. You’ve made it quite obvious that it’s a huge problem to you, so for that reason I genuinely hope it is managed well and your aren’t as disadvantaged as you obviously fear. If it is well managed then it’s an opportunity for all. That said, the deal is so unappealing in many respects you may well get your wish anyway! |
Are you able to post the deal on offer for the DECs? |
Allegedly the TUI BALPA forum is being moderated to remove all discussion surrounding alleged conflict of interest surrounding BALPA CC and recruitment of TCX DEC. Seems more like a tinpot dictatorship than a democratic organisation at the moment. |
They are working on many forums... |
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster
(Post 10616339)
Allegedly the TUI BALPA forum is being moderated to remove all discussion surrounding alleged conflict of interest surrounding BALPA CC and recruitment of TCX DEC. Seems more like a tinpot dictatorship than a democratic organisation at the moment. What a load of tripe. No good deed goes unpunished on social media. The truth is that BALPA actively sought to provide help, instruction and opportunities for Thomas Cook Pilots post the collapse of that fantastic airline. The TUI CC has acted to support the speculative acquisition of market share and talent. Time to Command was already down to 4.5 years, that's aside from the obvious practical issues in getting many new aircraft in the sky by May 2020. Taking the "fight" to Jet2 and easyJet So let's stick to the up sides. The ex Thomas Cook Pilots are being added to the very bottom of the Date of Joining Seniority List and that was post an all TUI Pilot Bid. Current TUI Pilots are going to get more opportunities not less: 40+ command courses this winter alone. A weeks is a long time in UK Aviation, it was ever thus, so let's see how this ambitious expansion goes. For my money I wish the new joiner Pilots a long a fruitful career within the travel giant TUI Group Best regards - Captain Leo Nugent TUI CC / NEC |
Although expansion is good news, I think there are questions being asked about the actions taken that both the company and the union seem reluctant to answer. |
Fire away - any questions that don't involve slander, libel, etc. I'll answer
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Good post LeoN. If there is no impact to TUI FO's Command opportunity its a win-win or just Nigels just doing what they do best....
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Good news in terms of expansion and the reported 2 million extra seats. Market share is key. Are there extra aircraft planned to be arriving as part of the expansion though?
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Yes - the business is apparently trying to source new hulls, new routes and new airport contracts / slots
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Bear in mind that many TC guys may now be sitting on multiple job offers. Tui have moved fairly quickly, but the terms are the weakest. Jet2 seem to have started getting offers out this week. For an FO there is almost £20k difference between the 2 companies..
Having committed to expansion, they may not get everyone they want/need to join at this point. I don't know what contingency they have, clearly non TC people, currently in a job are unlikely to be able to join TUI inside of 3 months, nor would be willing to accept chopped down part year part time stuff. |
Originally Posted by horsebox
(Post 10617576)
Bear in mind that many TC guys may now be sitting on multiple job offers. Tui have moved fairly quickly, but the terms are the weakest. Jet2 seem to have started getting offers out this week. For an FO there is almost £20k difference between the 2 companies..
Having committed to expansion, they may not get everyone they want/need to join at this point. I don't know what contingency they have, clearly non TC people, currently in a job are unlikely to be able to join TUI inside of 3 months, nor would be willing to accept chopped down part year part time stuff. |
Your suspicions are correct..... |
Originally Posted by LeoNugent
(Post 10616879)
Hi Mixmaster
What a load of tripe. No good deed goes unpunished on social media. The truth is that BALPA actively sought to provide help, instruction and opportunities for Thomas Cook Pilots post the collapse of that fantastic airline. The TUI CC has acted to support the speculative acquisition of market share and talent. Time to Command was already down to 4.5 years, that's aside from the obvious practical issues in getting many new aircraft in the sky by May 2020. Taking the "fight" to Jet2 and easyJet So let's stick to the up sides. The ex Thomas Cook Pilots are being added to the very bottom of the Date of Joining Seniority List and that was post an all TUI Pilot Bid. Current TUI Pilots are going to get more opportunities not less: 40+ command courses this winter alone. A weeks is a long time in UK Aviation, it was ever thus, so let's see how this ambitious expansion goes. For my money I wish the new joiner Pilots a long a fruitful career within the travel giant TUI Group Best regards - Captain Leo Nugent TUI CC / NEC |
Just saw the TUI social media update, the ex TCX pilots welcome day. So they hired 100?? Shall we assume the 2020 slots are all gone? How many pilots were they planning to take? As I have the feeling I’ve missed this train again... |
Originally Posted by Raph737
(Post 10618568)
Just saw the TUI social media update, the ex TCX pilots welcome day. So they hired 100?? Shall we assume the 2020 slots are all gone? How many pilots were they planning to take? As I have the feeling I’ve missed this train again... |
Originally Posted by Raph737
(Post 10618568)
Just saw the TUI social media update, the ex TCX pilots welcome day. So they hired 100?? Shall we assume the 2020 slots are all gone? How many pilots were they planning to take? As I have the feeling I’ve missed this train again... I think it’s safe to say that what TUI is offering is not attractive, a lot of the TCX guys/girls have taken it until something better comes along, a lot are in process with other airlines for interview and should they get the offer I am sure they will be more spaces in TUI to fill. |
Well the photo shows 100 pilots holding their wings up! They never take more than that, hence my question. They were adamant in the assessment day that we could be in the talent pool for 12 months. There are already guys waiting for several months in the pool, and there were people who applied earlier in the year, prior to TCX demise. Struggle to see how fair it is to wait so long for the assessments and then being by passed in this manner. That leaves a lot of people in limbo, the same way many ex TCX guys could jump ship, other guys who are rated and ready could go elsewhere if left in the dark for too long. I think I have the right to be disappointed but such is life, accept and move on. |
Originally Posted by Raph737
(Post 10619043)
I think I have the right to be disappointed but such is life, accept and move on. |
Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7
(Post 10619093)
Good idea. Food for thought buddy! |
I can sympathise with both sides of the debate on this. TUI is a great company so I understand where some people are coming from. That said, I think it’s time for some perspective. Frankly, unless you’re unemployed with Xmas round the corner I struggle to feel too much emotion for those already gainfully employed and still able to pay the bills, albeit perhaps not while working for the company you may choose or sat in the seat you may wish to be in. Given time you’re move will still happen and from what I’ve seen those newly employed will joint the bottom of the seniority list anyway. I don’t wish to belittle the concerns of people adversely affected but please spare a thought for those guys and girls that have lost their jobs. Some of whom are good mates of mine. In any case, frankly I’d rather see the TCX folks still able to pay their mortgages than worry about what this means for me me me. |
Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds
(Post 10619191)
I can sympathise with both sides of the debate on this. TUI is a great company so I understand where some people are coming from. That said, I think it’s time for some perspective. Frankly, unless you’re unemployed with Xmas around the corner I struggle to feel too much emotion for those already gainfully employed and still able to pay the bills, albeit perhaps not while working for the company you may choose or sat in the seat you may wish to be in. Given time you’re move will still happen and from what I’ve seen those newly employed will joint the bottom of the seniority list anyway. I don’t wish to belittle the concerns of people adversely affected but please spare a thought for those guys and girls that have lost their jobs. Some of whom are good mates of mine. In any case, frankly, I’d rather see the TCX folks still able to pay their mortgages than worry about what this means for me me me. |
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster
(Post 10617979)
So posts were not deleted on TUI BALPA forum relating to alleged conflict of interest? BALPA work is not easy for a reason, that reason is often because difficult and challenging situations need to be addressed. The more pleasant problems of rapid growth in this case.. TUI Airways remains one of / the best job in Aviation |
Tui
Any non-TC guys have an assessment last week and heard back yet? |
Originally Posted by Raph737
(Post 10619202)
this situation of not being able to pay your mortgage is not exclusive to TCX pilots.
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Had an assessment last week too (Non TC). Not a single reply yet.
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Originally Posted by LeoNugent
(Post 10619293)
The more strident posts that were bordering on libellous were edited or deleted by the member. Obviously to a greater extent than PPRUNE the forum has to be correctly managed. The trouble with forums or organisations is "the few" potentially making the situation wholly unpleasant.
BALPA work is not easy for a reason, that reason is often because difficult and challenging situations need to be addressed. The more pleasant problems of rapid growth in this case.. TUI Airways remains one of / the best job in Aviation |
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster
(Post 10619913)
Seems like the majority of your members disagree with your assessment Leo. Short term emotional responses don’t often work in the Airline business |
You’ve asked them all then, have you, mixmaster? TUI’s every possible course of action, including doing nothing carried a risk. The greatest of which arguably would have been slowly expanding into market share already taken by a faster- moving competitor. |
Originally Posted by ShotOne
(Post 10620080)
You’ve asked them all then, have you, mixmaster? TUI’s every possible course of action, including doing nothing carried a risk. The greatest of which arguably would have been slowly expanding into market share already taken by a faster- moving competitor. Leo fair play you must have thought you were doing the right thing by your members. I’d say the non TR FO’s recently hired would feel aggrieved given they are paying 7k a year for 3 years for their ratings and given many will have also missed out on command due to the DEC’s who are in turn not paying for their ratings. Many other seniority based airlines can expand at short notice in an unemotional manner which respects seniority. Expansion appears to be a false flag in this instance. In an airline which is based on probably the least worst promotional system - Seniority has to stand for something. |
The exTCX guys are paying for their rating. £7k a year for 3 years, they are also forced into 50% part time in the winter season. That includes the DECs.
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I believe the FO's are paying for their type ratings, not sure about the DEC's but happy to be corrected. I have friends that have waited patiently in the talent pool for a very long time, given course dates back in the summer for the new year (well over the normal 3 month notice period) and now find themselves potentially 60+ seniority places behind fast-tracked pilots. They are happy BALPA have looked after unemployed members from TCX, no one wishes anyone to be in a situation of unemployment, however as seniority seems to be king in terms of bases, redundancy and promotion, its a tough one to accept for them given they applied well over a year ago, have patiently waited in the talent pool for a call and have now seen hopes of a main base dual fleet go up in smoke, regional bases were only on offer when the calls were made yet now main bases are being offered to new joiners. The hope is this expansion goes very well but where are these extra aircraft coming from?
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DECs are paying (bonded) for their type rating as well. As for aircraft, your guess is as good as mine, I do wonder if they are hoping the Max will be back in service by summer 2020. It’s a !!!!ty deal for your friends. All I can say is that no one wanted this. I imagine the vast majority of those pilots would have been much happier if TCX had carried on. |
The chances of a DEC leaving TUI for another airline are much lower than a DEP. Seems unfair on the face of it but makes sense.
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There's a difference between being bonded (TCX DEC??) and paying for your rating out of your salary every month for 3 years (every other non-rated joiner).
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Look up the page at the BA thread and you will realise Balpa had no real part in this decision. Let's be real, I'm sure the CC etc were TOLD what was happening, but they don't have any power.
TUI had no choice, fail to act and J2 would have snapped up those 100 pilots and be breathing even deeper down their collars than they already are, particularly at MAN. J2 will have their own challenges at merging the TCX guys trust me. The good news is these TCX guys have got jobs where they want to be based, the 'bad' news is that seniority has again been exposed for what it is, a sham, at least in the UK anyway. |
Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns
(Post 10621109)
Look up the page at the BA thread and you will realise Balpa had no real part in this decision. Let's be real, I'm sure the CC etc were TOLD what was happening, but they don't have any power.
TUI had no choice, fail to act and J2 would have snapped up those 100 pilots and be breathing even deeper down their collars than they already are, particularly at MAN. J2 will have their own challenges at merging the TCX guys trust me. The good news is these TCX guys have got jobs where they want to be based, the 'bad' news is that seniority has again been exposed for what it is, a sham, at least in the UK anyway. |
Any off the Non TCX folks who went for assessment heard anything back from a couple of weeks ago? Have job and knew the TCX folks would be taken rapidly but still waiting to hear about the assessment? Would like to know either way? cheers all 👍 |
Talent Pool
Anybody know what the current situation with the 'Talent Pool' is? How long can you expect to wait for an offer?
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