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-   -   BA Direct Entry Pilot. (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/538503-ba-direct-entry-pilot.html)

A320baby 16th March 2019 14:18

Ok I'll rephrase, Virgin hasn't and won't be changing anything regarding pension for new joiners!

SpainHire 16th March 2019 17:23


Originally Posted by rossbaku (Post 10419779)
Speaking from my own personal experience, the T’s & C’s on offer at BA, along with the ‘fringe benefits’ far outweigh that of my previous employer.

So for some of us, the move is definitely a positive.

Just my two cents though.

What sort of fringe benefits are there exactly?

red9 16th March 2019 17:32

wearing a Hat ? .......

airspeed75 16th March 2019 18:54

Sorry if this is not strictly on the topic but has anyone any idea how long the swim is in the BACF hold pool? Any chaps or chapesses on here in this pool? The recruitment process was the exact same as the DEP and done at waterside, just thought i'd ask here...

wiggy 17th March 2019 10:27


Originally Posted by Justanothervoice (Post 10418971)
Hi everyone. Managed to work my way through the last two years of this thread and got a lot of answers but if someone could help me out with just a couple of questions I would be very grateful.....


Commuter Specific:
  • Do people literally set up shop in London for 21 days of reserve?
  • Any hope of getting home between trips while on reserve if on LH?
  • Given the apparent crack down, are commuters still finding they can commute and still maintain a sustainable lifestyle?
  • Is there a minimum number of days off between trips?
  • In terms of practicality, can staff travel be used for commuting?
New rostering system:
  • Is it still possible to swap duties to get some sort of favourable roster?
  • As a commuter would you stand any chance of binning your standbys for a flying duty to save a possible wasted trip?

Scatter gun reply whilst you wait for a junior pilot to reply:

Firstly for those that are wondering about the specifics - Reserve period (Long Haul) is a 28 day block, first 7 days clear of work then 21 available days during which you can be assigned a duty, either flying or a "Home Standby" (HSB). You normally get notified of a trip or HSB the evening before the duty and when on HSB the requirement is to be able to get to the Crew car Park at LHR in two hours or less. You can be assigned HSB's on multiple consecutive days...FWIW first 6 days of the period HSB on the trot for me last time around, then, finally, some trips...

Whether you have to live at LHR for the reserve block depends on timings and frequency of commuting flights. The reason for the "depends" is that on Longhaul reserve the general rule is (with the exception of the day of return from a trip) you are "contactable" in an evening for duties the next day ( e.g. flights or a stand-by block)...So you can get a phone call as late as 2000 UK LT informing you of a trip/ standby period the next AM and because of that many Longhaul commuters I know of plan on living around LHR/LGW for the 21 days and grab days off at home as a bonus.

Getting home after a trip on reserve? You are free on the day of arrival back into London (day 1) so you could nip home, but (FTLs allowing) you are then "contactable" the next evening (of day 2) for a duty AM next day (day 3).....it's a personal preference thing.

Plenty still commuting, but the company will still audit. Lifetsyle probably depends on number of trips per-month, gap between trips.

Min time between trips? Driven by bidding and FTLs now, whether you are willing to waive Industrial agreements to pack the work in/get enough work on your line to reach the hours target...You could probably plan on 2 days (3 local nights, longer for some trips with big time zone change elements) but it might suit you to reduce when bidding...

Can staff travel be used for commuting? ATM yes, but watch out trying to commute from somewhere with lots of more senior commuters and not many flights. Other option is slightly (and I means slightly) discounted commercial tickets ("hotlines").

Swapping trips in the general scheme of things when not on reserve is still possible when legal.

Swapping standbys ( when on reserve) with a trip is v tricky...You can tell "crewing" perhaps at the start of the Reserve period that you would prefer trips to standby's, but they are meant to equalise trips and standbys across all those on reserve. Once you actually get nobbled (the evening before) with a standby period for the next day crewing will have run their plan and are unlikely to want to change it...and they do like to keep their standby's intact "just in case".



General Lifestyle on LH fleet:
  • Do BA have a sensible approach to 3 and 4 person crews on long sectors to at least mitigate some fatigue?

Examples - East coast states and a bit further ( up to and including ORD, sometimes even MIA) 2 pilot, the Gulf, Central Africa (LOS, ABV) 2 pilot...other extreme such as SIN/EZE is 4 pilot, stuff in between generally 3 pilot.

HTH

Stocious 17th March 2019 13:10


It is marginally better because it includes Flying Pay in the 15% calculation. The reduction in joining pension was suggested but soundly rejected by the current workforce, something which would definitely not happen in BA!
BA Pension contributions are based on a seperate 'Pensionable pay' payscale however, which for me is nominally £12k higher than my basic pay.
I'd suggest that the current BA workforce are pretty united at the moment though, given the most recent ballot!

zero/zero 17th March 2019 14:54


Originally Posted by Stocious (Post 10421452)
BA Pension contributions are based on a seperate 'Pensionable pay' payscale however, which for me is nominally £12k higher than my basic pay.
I'd suggest that the current BA workforce are pretty united at the moment though, given the most recent ballot!

PP1 ‘pensionable pay’ from the current MoA is £57403 under BARP (what a new joiner will get). Year 1 at Virgin is £77000.

The fact that there are 3 different pension schemes and 2 different salary scales in the company suggests something other than a united workforce. That’s before we start talking about JSS and the differences that’s created between the most junior and the most senior.

Stocious 17th March 2019 15:50

Good for Virgin. I still won't be applying to join.

For every year after PP1, it;s higher than the basic pay, all the way up to £40k more on the P1 payscale.
BARP doesn't exist any more, and only one pension scheme now for us all. In fact the only differing thing for us now is PP24 vs PP34 but that's hardly going to affect new joiners is it?

zero/zero 17th March 2019 16:21


Originally Posted by Stocious (Post 10421553)
Good for Virgin. I still won't be applying to join.

For every year after PP1, it;s higher than the basic pay, all the way up to £40k more on the P1 payscale.
BARP doesn't exist any more, and only one pension scheme now for us all. In fact the only differing thing for us now is PP24 vs PP34 but that's hardly going to affect new joiners is it?

I stand ready to be corrected but you’re quoting LGW P1 figures, where a lower local pay scale combined with mainline pension makes for a big difference. For a PP34 Mainline LH Captain, the pensionable pay is less than his basic.

Justanothervoice 18th March 2019 11:55


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 10421319)
Scatter gun reply whilst you wait for a junior pilot to reply:

HTH

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

A friend sent me a chunk of sample rosters of junior FO rosters off a cross section of long haul fleets fleets. From some very rough calculations it seems like weekend days off are going to be at a premium.

Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays clear of any duty: 24% (35% Including leave)
Percentage of weekends with either a Saturdays or Sundays was partially off (Allowing for approximately 8 hours of leisure time after a duty) : 16%
Percentage of weekends where both Saturdays and Sundays where spent on duty or away in trip: 59%
Percentage of weekends when the whole weekend was clear of duty: 17% (30% including leave)

Is there anyone who can tell me if these figures are realistic?

Thanks again for any input.

red9 18th March 2019 14:02

24% would suggest one in four week ends off , which I find hard to believe - having been over 12 months personally without a week end off - and I am not quite at the bottom of the pile.

Justanothervoice 18th March 2019 14:18


Originally Posted by red9 (Post 10422515)
24% would suggest one in four week ends off , which I find hard to believe - having been over 12 months personally without a week end off - and I am not quite at the bottom of the pile.

Sorry, my post was poorly worded. I have corrected it now. Looking through the rosters, only 17% of weekends were off while 24% percent of weekends had a duty either starting or ending on a Saturday or Sunday. 59% of the weekends where were completely taken up by trips.

Your reply does seem to tie into what I was which was an awful lot of people could go through a whole month without having even one Saturday or Sunday off.

red9 18th March 2019 16:53

" a whole month" - try 12 months +

MikeAlpha320 18th March 2019 17:25

Not had a weekend off besides leave on SH... been here nearly 12 months.

V737 18th March 2019 19:17

Could someone give me some more information about this requirement? What exactly is it?

5 GCSE’s including Math’s, English and Science (excluding General studies and Critical
Thinking) grade C and above plus 112 UCAS points according to the 2017 UCAS point
system or equivalent.

Jumbo2 18th March 2019 19:19


Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 (Post 10422732)
Not had a weekend off besides leave on SH... been here nearly 12 months.

12 months, so no weekend of during 9 months of Blindlines under the old bidline system and neither during the 3 months of JSS?

At least JSS produces simular results as the old system then. Looking at the junior SH roster they look very similar as the old blindlines and junior trip lines.

Good thing is on SH your seniority will go up far quicker then as a DEP LH and within BA you only have to be junior once!

zero/zero 18th March 2019 19:46


Originally Posted by Jumbo2 (Post 10422848)
... within BA you only have to be junior once!

This is indeed true, but in reality this means refusing command and therefore an effective pay cut in order to have a liveable lifestyle

Jock Trapped 18th March 2019 20:07


Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 (Post 10422732)
Not had a weekend off besides leave on SH... been here nearly 12 months.

Could I ask about reserve months? I read somewhere here that they include 7 days in a row free of duty? Obviously that would include a weekend. Can you bid for reserve or is it just allocated to you from time to time?

Stocious 18th March 2019 20:27


Originally Posted by zero/zero (Post 10421589)
I stand ready to be corrected but you’re quoting LGW P1 figures, where a lower local pay scale combined with mainline pension makes for a big difference. For a PP34 Mainline LH Captain, the pensionable pay is less than his basic.

Not sure which figures you're looking at but for every year on the PP34 P1 Mainline scale, every pensionable pay point is higher than the basic with the exception of PP1, some of PP2, PP33 and PP34. The figure I chose for the biggest difference is SH PP24 where the difference is over 40k.

LGW doesn't have a lower payscale though, it's identical to LHR SH, just with a cap.

hunterboy 19th March 2019 05:42

You can bid for reserve, though probably struggle to get it from Sep to Dec, when pilots start strategically bidding for their Christmas roster . To be honest, reserve isn’t a bad gig if you live within 2 hours of the car park and don’t mind being flexible. The last few reserves months I’ve done, I’ve sat at home on call or visited my parents and counted that as a day off if not called. I ended up with an average of 18 days “off” each month. I accept that you don’t know it’s a day free of duty until the end of the standby period, but if you are happy to be flexible and drop what you are doing if the company call, then it’s not a bad gig. I know some junior guys were doing 4 a year on some fleets and gaining another 4 weeks off a year with the 7 day fixed days off block.


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